pic: SPARK

[Richard Wallace]

[cdm-description=photo]42528[/cdm-description]

[JPBlacksmiths]

What are the advantages of this as opposed to a talon or victor?

[jkelleyrtp]

What are the advantages of this as opposed to a talon or victor?

Mainly just that they are $45 as opposed to $60 or $90. And they have more flashy lights.

[Ernst]

And they have more flashy lights.

I'll take 20

[Richard Wallace]

My team likes the flashy lights. Especially the range of colors, which indicate whether the controller is set for BRAKE or COAST mode.

Test data made available by CTRE indicates (http://www.ctr-electronics.com/downloads/pdf/Motor-Controller-Power-Testing.pdf) a bit less maximum motor voltage available with the SPARK, when compared to Talons or Victors. I am not sure whether that is due to differences in on-state resistance of the FETs (Rds_on), or modulation depth, or something else.

We plan to test SPARKs at the Whirlpool motor lab soon, by the method (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2720)(s (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2722)) Ether developed a while ago. Will post what we find.

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edit: @JPBlacksmiths (below) -- we have not seen performance differences when testing SPARKs in our test drive train (see OP). Will have to wait for bench test results before commenting on component level differences.

[JPBlacksmiths]

My team likes the flashy lights. Especially the range of colors, which indicate whether the controller is set for BRAKE or COAST mode.

Test data made available by CTRE indicates a bit less maximum motor voltage available with the SPARK, when compared to Talons or Victors. I am not sure whether that is due to differences in on-state resistance of the FETs (Rds_on), or modulation depth, or something else.

We plan to test SPARKs at the Whirlpool motor lab soon, by the method (file:///C:/Users/wallars/Downloads/Motor_Controller_Speed_vs_Torque_tests_revB.pdf)(s (file:///C:/Users/wallars/Downloads/CIM_inrush_current_revB.pdf)) Ether developed a while ago. Will post what we find.
Is there any performance differences?

[Sperkowsky]

We just bought 4 sparks. Now we have 4 sparks and 4 victor sps for the season. Motor controllers check.

[ahartnet]

What are the advantages of this as opposed to a talon or victor?

Mainly just that they are $45 as opposed to $60 or $90. And they have more flashy lights.

I'll add that they're cheaper, have a PWM cable retention (though I need to see it work in person to have faith in it) AND they still have an easy to use limit switch input. Limit switches are a very easy way for teams to improve their robot functionality/robustness in my opinion. It looks like the SPARK has a slight advantage over the talon in its ease of use for the limit switch sensor input since it appears you could plug a PWM cable. Many teams have PWM cables laying around and could rig it up to a limit switch. The talons require a little bit more forethought to use the limit switch, either in the adapter specifically made for it or in having a 2x5.05" header which aren't used much in FRC elsewhere.

Based what I saw from the CTRE testing, I plan on using victors for drivetrain, talon SRX's for any manipulators that require encoder feedback or are pushing motor capabilities, and SPARKs for anything else (things such as intake wheels). Looking forward to 3620s test results to see if I want to stick with that plan or not

[AustinH]

Furthermore, they're available on Amazon Prime...

[s1900ahon]

2468 retrofitted our 2014 robot with Sparks; a quick and simple swap for the Talon SR. These were powering the CIMs of the drive (dual CIM VEX ball shifters). No notable problems with the students driving it "hard" and no noticeable change in driver response.

Scott

I did notice a behavioral quirk of our students.. when we have a new robot and we don't want them to over stress things too much they typically do... and when you have new-to-us motor controllers that you *do* want them to abuse, they don't. Weird. :D

[lynca]

Furthermore, they're available on Amazon Prime...

Nice ! no shipping costs
I hope more of the Robotics parts become available on Amazon

[marshall]

Nice ! no shipping costs
I hope more of the Robotics parts become available on Amazon

From Small Parts to Amazon... we've come full circle.

[Sperkowsky]

From Small Parts to Amazon... we've come full circle.
Motor controller breaks on practice day? Don't worry you can overnight a new one.

[cad321]

Does anyone know if these will be made available to international teams? Specifically Canada? I went on amazon and their only offering shipping to the states at the moment.

[Greg Needel]

Does anyone know if these will be made available to international teams? Specifically Canada? I went on amazon and their only offering shipping to the states at the moment.

We are working on options for International teams right now, and will have something to announce very soon. If you want you can email us at contact [at] REVrobotics [dot] com and we will send you information when it is available.

Thanks,

Greg

[wildwaffle]

Does it overheat more than previous motor controllers?

[Knufire]

Does it overheat more than previous motor controllers?
http://www.ctr-electronics.com/downloads/pdf/Motor-Controller-Power-Testing.pdf

[Bluejackets]

We are considering ordering these. Our team programs in C++. Is there anything different needed programming wise to use this type of motor controller as opposed to a talon.

[Ari423]

We are considering ordering these. Our team programs in C++. Is there anything different needed programming wise to use this type of motor controller as opposed to a talon.

Talon SR? No. Talon SRX? Yes.

Also same to program (basically) as Victor 888, Victor SP, or PWM Jaguar.

[Knufire]

We are considering ordering these. Our team programs in C++. Is there anything different needed programming wise to use this type of motor controller as opposed to a talon.

Which version? (Talon, Talon SR, Talon SRX)

[Bluejackets]

We were thinking if the spark was similar programming as the talon, and talonSR

[runneals]

From Small Parts to Amazon... we've come full circle.

Now when robot parts will be in Lowe's/Home Depot/Menards Stores nation-wide :P Would make it easier to fix stuff during outreach events if it breaks :P (hey, those handy HVAC duct clips worked magic for a temporary fix for a weld that came undone in the middle of a day-long outreach event :D

[Tom Line]

http://www.ctr-electronics.com/downloads/pdf/Motor-Controller-Power-Testing.pdf

I do not see any where in that document where they talk about temperatures of the various controllers. However I'm also unaware of any controllers currently on the market that will overheat when utilized correctly.

[Ari423]

I do not see any where in that document where they talk about temperatures of the various controllers. However I'm also unaware of any controllers currently on the market that will overheat when utilized correctly.

That is a concern for the new mindsensors controller. The graphs they released were...let's say warranting further investigation. I have yet to see third party results on how well they work and whether we should be concerned about overheating, especially with the Rev B version being released so recently.

[Greg Needel]

We were thinking if the spark was similar programming as the talon, and talonSR

Programming the SPARK is identical to the talon and talon SR.

[FTWDragonSlayer]

plz help we bought 2 sparks and there unresponsive and wildly sending low voltage plz help its causing alot of problems it would be greatly appreciated

[NinjaMunkeeNao]

plz help we bought 2 sparks and there unresponsive and wildly sending low voltage plz help its causing alot of problems it would be greatly appreciated

Have you contacted anyone? I think calling whomever you bought the motors from and informing them of the difficulties you're currently having would be a good idea. If you've already done that, might I ask what you've done so far with the motors? Are you stressing them?

[Greg Needel]

plz help we bought 2 sparks and there unresponsive and wildly sending low voltage plz help its causing alot of problems it would be greatly appreciated

Hi Jarrett,
I sent this to you in an email also, but if you could tell us a bit more information we will be able to help figure out the problem.



What programming language are you using?
Are you using the included PWM cables, or other ones that your team had previously?
Have you tried calibrating the controllers or doing a reset?
Does the issue happen as soon as the power is turned on or only after the robot is enabled in the driver's station?



Please also check that power and motor connections. If motor and power connections were swapped, motors could spin uncontrollably regardless of the robot state.

If you send us a photo of your electronics setup, it might be easier to diagnosis the problem. Also if you would prefer, we can talk you through it over the phone.
You can reply to the email I sent you or send me a private message here on Chiefdelphi.


Thanks,

Greg

[Billfred]

plz help we bought 2 sparks and there unresponsive and wildly sending low voltage plz help its causing alot of problems it would be greatly appreciated

The fact that you have two Sparks exhibiting this behavior makes me suspicious that something else could be in the mix. Does it exhibit this same behavior with another speed controller? If a Victor/Talon/Jaguar/etc exhibits the same behavior wired the same way, then definitely email REV (http://www.revrobotics.com/contact/).

It's possible that a couple duds escaped any testing they're doing, but for a team to go 0 for 2 on semi-random pulls (we'll assume there's a degree of randomness with Amazon's fulfillment network that picked and packed your Sparks) would surprise me.

(Full disclosure: REV donated four Sparks and a Digit board to Team Cockamamie's Robot in 3 Days build this year, and Greg and I have known each other for some time. I'd say the same thing about any brand of speed controller, though.)

[Tom Line]

The fact that you have two Sparks exhibiting this behavior makes me suspicious that something else could be in the mix. Does it exhibit this same behavior with another speed controller? If a Victor/Talon/Jaguar/etc exhibits the same behavior wired the same way, then definitely email REV (http://www.revrobotics.com/contact/).

It's possible that a couple duds escaped any testing they're doing, but for a team to go 0 for 2 on semi-random pulls (we'll assume there's a degree of randomness with Amazon's fulfillment network that picked and packed your Sparks) would surprise me.

(Full disclosure: REV donated four Sparks and a Digit board to Team Cockamamie's Robot in 3 Days build this year, and Greg and I have known each other for some time. I'd say the same thing about any brand of speed controller, though.)

If I were going to venture a guess based on the limited information in the initial post, I'd say they have their PWM wire or their power wires plugged in backwards. My only complaint about the spark was that the white molded "B" to signify the black wire on the PWM connection didn't jump out at me when I was looking for it. I had the same complaint on the old victors too.

[Sperkowsky]

If I were going to venture a guess based on the limited information in the initial post, I'd say they have their PWM wire or their power wires plugged in backwards. My only complaint about the spark was that the white molded "B" to signify the black wire on the PWM connection didn't jump out at me when I was looking for it. I had the same complaint on the old victors too.
I was just happy the b existed at all.

[Richard Wallace]

I was just happy the b existed at all.

Finding that "B" with a flashlight is often easier than remembering where you put the doc. Looking inside the lid of the package also works, if you kept that.

[Greg Needel]

My only complaint about the spark was that the white molded "B" to signify the black wire on the PWM connection didn't jump out at me when I was looking for it.


That B was an unfortunate outcome of not being able to do everything you want when building a product. When I was doing the finishing spec of the SPARK (the drawing that shows the engravings & PAD prints) the original plan was to pad-print all of the raised letters black (including the B). The issue we ran into was registration since the raised letters were already in the mold.

We then had to make a decision, either not paint the letters, or modify the mold to get rid of them completely so we could just print int their places. All of this was happening when the electronics were already in production. So for this first run of the products we decided to go with what you all see. Keeping the raised letters and adding the black arrow M+ padprint. I was worried about the ink rubbing off overtime and the SPARKs losing all of their markings.


Here is a tip. Take the edge of a sharpie and gently rub it on the top of the letters and then let it dry. The letters will POP off the SPARK and they will be easier to read. When we move forward for our next production run of these (probably for next season) I am going to take another look at this to see if we can make it better.



https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1594/24426289879_e0cbcff23e_z.jpg