View Full Version : [FRC Blog] Surprise!
Posted on the FRC Blog (http://www.firstinspires.org/robotics/frc/blog/), 1/6/16: http://www.firstinspires.org/robotics/frc/blog/surprise
Surprise!
Today’s blog post was written by Jonathan Bryant, Kit of Parts Engineer. (2016 Jan 05)
We’re using today’s blog to tell you about three juicy pieces of information from the Robot section of the Game Manual and the Kit of Parts.
First, R14. R14 – Software and mechanical/electrical designs created before Kickoff are only permitted if the source files (complete information sufficient to produce the design) are available publicly prior to Kickoff.
So, if you already have a design, and you want to use it this year, post it publicly now.
Second, Motors.
In a former blog post we declared Banebots 775 and 550 motors illegal for the 2016 season. This was because Banebots was no longer producing the motor and we wanted to ensure all teams had access to the same set of motors. After seeing feedback from the community, Banebots was able to work with us and start back up production of the 775 and 550! Banebots will have sufficient stock of both motors for the coming season and thus M7-RS775-18 and M5-RS550-12 will be legal for 2016!
Third, Kit of Parts sizes and weights.
2016 Kickoff Kits will consist of the following items for all teams (sizes and weights are approximate):
One set of items, collectively, 27 in. x 17 in. x 13 in., 48 lbs.
One set of items, collectively, 2 in. x 2 in. x 48 in., 5 lbs.
One item, 8 in. x 3 in. x 7 in., 14 lbs.
2016 Kickoff Kits will include the following additional items for Rookie Teams only:
One set of items, collectively, 27 in. x 17 in. x 13 in., 33 lbs.
One item, 8 in. x 3 in. x 7 in., 14 lbs.
Teams who did not opt out of the Drive Base Kit will also receive the following item:
One set of items, collectively, 7 in. x 7 in. x 34 in., 28 lbs.
Teams who opted into receiving an additional Kickoff Kit’s worth of game pieces will receive:
(redacted)
JB
notmattlythgoe
06-01-2016, 11:13
Tote weights for reference:
2016 - 48 lbs
2015 - 60 lbs
2014 - 60 lbs
2013 - 48 lbs
Sperkowsky
06-01-2016, 11:17
1. One set of items, collectively, 27 in. x 17 in. x 13 in., 48 lbs.
2. One set of items, collectively, 2 in. x 2 in. x 48 in., 5 lbs.
3. One item, 8 in. x 3 in. x 7 in., 14 lbs.
Item 1 is clearly a tote. (Recycle rush Definitely taught me the dimensions of those).
So speculation for game pieces lies with item 2 and 3.
a single 14lb item is pretty heavy especially since it is only 168 cubic inches. It does not appear to be a ball unless its a box of smaller balls. (Cananobals?)
The second set of items to me looks like spare parts similarly to how they gave out the L Stock last year. Although it could definitely be a flag pole.
Hmmmmm
One set of items, collectively, 2 in. x 2 in. x 48 in., 5 lbs.
Robot swords...ROBOT SWORDS. :yikes:
s_forbes
06-01-2016, 11:21
1. One set of items, collectively, 27 in. x 17 in. x 13 in., 48 lbs.
2. One set of items, collectively, 2 in. x 2 in. x 48 in., 5 lbs.
3. One item, 8 in. x 3 in. x 7 in., 14 lbs.
Item 1 is clearly a tote. (Recycle rush Definitely taught me the dimensions of those).
So speculation for game pieces lies with item 2 and 3.
a single 14lb item is pretty heavy especially since it is only 168 cubic inches. It does not appear to be a ball unless its a box of smaller balls. (Cananobals?)
The second set of items to me looks like spare parts similarly to how they gave out the L Stock last year. Although it could definitely be a flag pole.
Hmmmmm
Clearly they are combining the sports of curling and jousting.
Jacob Paikoff
06-01-2016, 11:22
1. One set of items, collectively, 27 in. x 17 in. x 13 in., 48 lbs.
2. One set of items, collectively, 2 in. x 2 in. x 48 in., 5 lbs.
3. One item, 8 in. x 3 in. x 7 in., 14 lbs.
Item 1 is clearly a tote. (Recycle rush Definitely taught me the dimensions of those).
So speculation for game pieces lies with item 2 and 3.
a single 14lb item is pretty heavy especially since it is only 168 cubic inches. It does not appear to be a ball unless its a box of smaller balls. (Cananobals?)
The second set of items to me looks like spare parts similarly to how they gave out the L Stock last year. Although it could definitely be a flag pole.
Hmmmmm
I'm pretty sure number 3 is a battery and rookies get 2.
Dimensions per AndyMark, http://www.andymark.com/battery-p/am-3062.htm
Robot swords...ROBOT SWORDS. :yikes:
incoming jousting matches?
I'm also curious about the 14lb item. its roughly battery sized? And its only 1 item? Would they say its 1 item if its a box of little "cannonballs"?
mman1506
06-01-2016, 11:25
Weird that there is no mention of 775 pro being legal.
Doug Frisk
06-01-2016, 11:27
I'm pretty sure number 3 is a battery and rookies get 2.
Dimensions per AndyMark, http://www.andymark.com/battery-p/am-3062.htm
Sadly, you're probably right. Curling stones are much heavier than 14 pounds.
Sweet!
Thanks for the update and the KoP information.
orangemoore
06-01-2016, 11:32
Weird that there is no mention of 775 pro being legal.
It is.
I wouldn't lose hope yet. I would assume they thought it was important to make it very public that they reversed a decision they had made public earlier in the year.
Weird that there is no mention of 775 pro being legal.
I just submitted a question about 775 Pro's legality to the Blog.
curling
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/470/4708ee419960447d0ec5a7e4cb192429_l.jpg
What could go wrong? :rolleyes:
Disclaimer: For those who haven't seen this picture before, no, it's not a game hint, it was a spoof made by Dave Lavery way back in 2005: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22422
JoshWilson
06-01-2016, 11:52
Robot swords...ROBOT SWORDS. :yikes:
That would be one of the awesomest things ever.
tindleroot
06-01-2016, 11:55
I'm pretty sure number 3 is a battery and rookies get 2.
Dimensions per AndyMark, http://www.andymark.com/battery-p/am-3062.htm
Number 3 is almost certainly the battery, as they always include them - every year we see " One item, 8 in. x 3 in. x 7 in., 14 lbs." and it is always the batter. Number 2 looks like Aluminum to me.
GreyingJay
06-01-2016, 11:59
What could go wrong? :rolleyes:
Disclaimer: For those who haven't seen this picture before, no, it's not a game hint, it was a spoof made by Dave Lavery way back in 2005: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22422
OMG OMG
... poor Dozer, always getting into trouble.
Nathan Streeter
06-01-2016, 11:59
2016 Contents & Weights:
2016 Kickoff Kits will consist of the following items for all teams (sizes and weights are approximate):
1. One set of items, collectively, 27 in. x 17 in. x 13 in., 48 lbs.
2. One set of items, collectively, 2 in. x 2 in. x 48 in., 5 lbs.
3. One item, 8 in. x 3 in. x 7 in., 14 lbs.
2016 Kickoff Kits will include the following additional items for Rookie Teams only:
4. One set of items, collectively, 27 in. x 17 in. x 13 in., 33 lbs.
5. One item, 8 in. x 3 in. x 7 in., 14 lbs.
Teams who did not opt out of the Drive Base Kit will also receive the following item:
6. One set of items, collectively, 7 in. x 7 in. x 34 in., 28 lbs.
Teams who opted into receiving an additional Kickoff Kit’s worth of game pieces will receive:
7. (redacted)
2015 Contents & Weights for Comparison:
2015 Kickoff Kits will consist of the following items for all teams (sizes and weights are approximate):
A) One set of items, collectively, 27 in. x 17 in. x 17 in., 60 lbs.
B) One item, 8 in. x 3 in. x 7 in., 14 lbs.
C) One set of items, collectively, 29 in. x 22 in. x 22 in., 9 lbs.
D) One set of items, collectively 3 in. x 3 in. x 60 in., 6 lbs.
2015 Kickoff Kits will include the following additional items for Rookie teams only:
E) One item, 27 in. x 17 in. x 13 in., 26 lbs.
F) One item, 8 in. x 3 in. x 7 in., 14 lbs.
Teams who did not opt out of the Drive Base Kit will also receive the following item:
G) One item, 34 in. x 6 in. x 7 in., 24 lbs.
My guesses...
1. One set of items, collectively, 27 in. x 17 in. x 13 in., 48 lbs.
- A tote with the majority of the kit components... potentially including smaller or inflatable/squishable game pieces
2. One set of items, collectively, 2 in. x 2 in. x 48 in., 5 lbs.
- Donated extrusion/raw materials (weight is right for 4 pieces of 1x1x.0625 aluminum box) or a game piece or unique field element
3. One item, 8 in. x 3 in. x 7 in., 14 lbs.
- A battery
2016 Kickoff Kits will include the following additional items for Rookie Teams only:
4. One set of items, collectively, 27 in. x 17 in. x 13 in., 33 lbs.
- Tote of more kit components for rookies...
5. One item, 8 in. x 3 in. x 7 in., 14 lbs.
- A battery...
Teams who did not opt out of the Drive Base Kit will also receive the following item:
6.One set of items, collectively, 7 in. x 7 in. x 34 in., 28 lbs.
- AM14U3 (4 pounds heavier than 2015)
Teams who opted into receiving an additional Kickoff Kit’s worth of game pieces will receive:
7. (redacted)
- This could be the game piece(s)
GreyingJay
06-01-2016, 12:02
AM14U3 is four pounds heavier than AM14U2? Uh oh. I just convinced my team to order an AM14U2 from a recent Andymark Deal of the Day for possible use as our practice bot. The hope was that given the profile drawings the two kits would be extremely similar.
Guess we will soon see...
Sperkowsky
06-01-2016, 12:05
Ok so the game piece is a battery! No? Bad idea? Serisouly though guess the game piece is probably in the tote.
notmattlythgoe
06-01-2016, 12:07
Ok so the game piece is a battery! No? Bad idea? Serisouly though guess the game piece is probably in the tote.
Unless there is no game piece...
http://rs646.pbsrc.com/albums/uu181/SanFrancisco__/everybodyhatesgif.gif~c200
EricLeifermann
06-01-2016, 12:14
Unless there is no game piece...
http://rs646.pbsrc.com/albums/uu181/SanFrancisco__/everybodyhatesgif.gif~c200
Where we're going we don't need game pieces.
Zebra_Fact_Man
06-01-2016, 12:14
Unless there is no game piece...
http://rs646.pbsrc.com/albums/uu181/SanFrancisco__/everybodyhatesgif.gif~c200
Surprise! The robots are the game pieces. First year robots can grab each other.
MrForbes
06-01-2016, 12:15
Serisouly though guess the game piece is probably in the tote.
You can easily fit several small rocks into a tote full of robot parts.
Nathan Streeter
06-01-2016, 12:18
AM14U3 is four pounds heavier than AM14U2? Uh oh. I just convinced my team to order an AM14U2 from a recent Andymark Deal of the Day for possible use as our practice bot. The hope was that given the profile drawings the two kits would be extremely similar.
Guess we will soon see...
It very well could be that the other 4 pounds are just differences in wheels (up to 6" wheels maybe?), fasteners, 'optional' frame parts, and the like...
Unless there is no game piece...
http://rs646.pbsrc.com/albums/uu181/SanFrancisco__/everybodyhatesgif.gif~c200
Surprise! The robots are the game pieces. First year robots can grab each other.
Oh man...
Item 2 is clearly the pole for CTF.
::rtm::
Surprise! The robots are the game pieces. First year robots can grab each other.
AFAIK, there has not been a rule against robots on the same alliance grabbing each other, just the opposing alliance.
And item 7 is pretty definitely game pieces - read the header above. The other possibility is that it is "Nothing!" (recalls French Revolution marketplace in History of the World Part I)
BotDesigner
06-01-2016, 12:22
Ok so the game piece is a battery! No? Bad idea? Serisouly though guess the game piece is probably in the tote.
What if it is the tote? Who wants to use siege weapons on a row of six-stacks. :yikes: Recycle Rush would have an entirely new meaning...
Eric Scheuing
06-01-2016, 12:23
AFAIK, there has not been a rule against robots on the same alliance grabbing each other, just the opposing alliance.
R37b: Each robot must be one part of Voltron.
Zac Schofield
06-01-2016, 12:35
I cant wait for our denim game pieces.
#DenimDerbyConfirmed
Nice to see that the 550 and 775 are gonna stay with us for another year!
No brakes on the kickoff hype train! :D
M. Mellott
06-01-2016, 12:48
Since we couldn't get a representative to a pickup site, we're having our KOP shipped to my work site. Back in December, our team contacts received an email from FIRST--here's a portion:
Greetings Teams:
Your team has selected to have your Kickoff Kit delivered via individual kit shipment (MySite) to your location rather than collecting the Kickoff Kit at one of the available Local Kickoff Locations. This year, each team’s MySite shipment is being sent on its own small pallet via ground freight where possible and via airfreight where needed. On behalf of the teams, to reduce freight cost, we have negotiated very special rates with FedEx to help you receive your Kickoff Kit as cost effectively as possible. Continental USA and Canada MySite teams will be charged $200 and other teams requiring airfreight (because of the large water between us) will be charged $600. We quoted multiple freight companies and shipping methods and this is the best way. The appropriate amount has been posted to your TIMS account and needs to be paid to FIRST by December 21st to avoid shipment delay of your Kickoff Kit.
My question is if the non-rookie KOP is only one tote and two boxes, why did it need to be shipped strapped to a pallet, and why does a 48-lb. shipment run $200? "Best way"? I might see a need for the pallet for overseas shipment, but not within the Continental US. Shipping three boxes, each with its own shipping label, would have been a lot cheaper...very disappointing.
techhelpbb
06-01-2016, 12:48
R37b: Each robot must be one part of Voltron.
Does the blazing sword count as a part of Voltron?
If one alliance builds Voltron does the other build Robeasts?
One must get these tactical details done correctly if they are going to build a flying fortress for a game called 'Stronghold' in the 6 weeks.
Goes and checks the VIMS system to insure I am no where near field reset this year.
Unless there is no game piece...
Simplest game ever. Field has 3 foot tall crenelated wall separating the red stronghold from the blue stronghold. Robots start on their own color. At the end of the match, the winner is the alliance with more robots completely in the opposing stronghold. GO!
marshall
06-01-2016, 13:01
Simplest game ever. Field has 3 foot tall crenelated wall separating the red stronghold from the blue stronghold. Robots start on their own color. At the end of the match, the winner is the alliance with more robots completely in the opposing stronghold. GO!
If we are allowed to forcefully remove robots from our own stronghold then this could make for a very fun game.
Cash4587
06-01-2016, 13:33
I bet that this year they are going to recycle one of last years game pieces and give us one for free in the kickoff kit! :eek: :eek: :eek:
ahartnet
06-01-2016, 14:58
Unless there is no game piece...
http://rs646.pbsrc.com/albums/uu181/SanFrancisco__/everybodyhatesgif.gif~c200
In 2005 you built the game pieces (tetras) out of PVC if memory serves me right. Maybe it's something similar this year.
Wouldn't be too hard to build jousting poles with PVC...
Doug Frisk
06-01-2016, 15:04
Surprise! The robots are the game pieces. First year robots can grab each other.
Wait, is that why the FMS sound effects are all polka music this year?
Connor McBride
06-01-2016, 15:04
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/470/4708ee419960447d0ec5a7e4cb192429_l.jpg
What could go wrong? :rolleyes:
Disclaimer: For those who haven't seen this picture before, no, it's not a game hint, it was a spoof made by Dave Lavery way back in 2005: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22422
What could go wrong???? "Famous last words"
I bet that this year they are going to recycle one of last years game pieces and give us one for free in the kickoff kit! :eek: :eek: :eek:
I'll raise -- I bet that they'll give two to rookie teams since they don't already have one!
My question is if the non-rookie KOP is only one tote and two boxes, why did it need to be shipped strapped to a pallet, and why does a 48-lb. shipment run $200? "Best way"? I might see a need for the pallet for overseas shipment, but not within the Continental US. Shipping three boxes, each with its own shipping label, would have been a lot cheaper...very disappointing.
Saturday Delivery?:yikes:
2. One set of items, collectively, 2 in. x 2 in. x 48 in., 5 lbs.
Recycle Rush. Confirmed again.
EDIT : The box contains a noodle. FRC is being troll with us.
Recycle Rush. Confirmed again.
EDIT : The box contains a noodle. FRC is being troll with us.
The 2015 litter (noodle) was this item:
D) One set of items, collectively 3 in. x 3 in. x 60 in., 6 lbs.
A noodle has a volume of 1.25in * 1.25in * 3.14 * 59 in = 290 cu-in.
A 2 x 2 x 48 box has a volume of 192 cu-in.
To fit a noodle into a 2in x 2in x 48 in box would require significant compression, even if you do cut it into pieces first
kyle_hamblett
06-01-2016, 16:11
I bet that this year they are going to recycle one of last years game pieces and give us one for free in the kickoff kit! :eek: :eek: :eek:
Litter = bumper material
The 2015 litter (noodle) was this item:
A noodle has a volume of 1.25in * 1.25in * 3.14 * 59 in = 290 cu-in.
A 2 x 2 x 48 box has a volume of 192 cu-in.
To fit a noodle into a 2in x 2in x 48 in box would require significant compression, even if you do cut it into pieces first
could be a smaller noodle. Is 11in of noodle 1lb of material?
It all adds up!! :D
Cash4587
06-01-2016, 16:16
Litter = bumper material
I was more referring to the totes. Also, I think unless they make a rule change I don't think the solid pool noodles are legal to be used in bumpers.
I was more referring to the totes. Also, I think unless they make a rule change I don't think the solid pool noodles are legal to be used in bumpers.
Emphasis mine:
use a stacked pair of approximately 2 ½ in. round, petal, or hex “pool noodles” (solid or hollow) as the BUMPER cushion material (see Figure 4-8). Cushion material may extend up to 2 ½ in. beyond the end of the plywood (see Figure 4-5 and Figure 4-9). To assist in applying the fabric covering, fasteners may be used to attach the pool noodles to the wood backing, so long as the cross section of Figure 4-8 is not significantly altered (e.g. tape compressing the pool noodles).
Edit: ... and 2015 didn't say what you could or couldn't make them from, apart from the general robot rules.
Daniel_LaFleur
06-01-2016, 17:10
Wouldn't be too hard to build jousting poles with PVC...
**Shudders while seeing visions of PVC shards flying through the air**
They're all varying amounts of pizza.
It's a pizza game.
Nothing is real.
No but in all honesty, I hope there's no actual game pieces just to see what kind of game that could be.
Nothing is real.
No, that's Strawberry Fields.
Wait, they did corn in '92, maybe so!
Wait, is that why the FMS sound effects are all polka music this year?
This made me cringe at first since I also spend the entire event on the field..but then remembered that Weird Al is a hero of mine. Bring on the Polka!
cadandcookies
07-01-2016, 00:24
**Shudders while seeing visions of PVC shards flying through the air**
There was a terrifying match on Hopper last year where a team's canburgler broke and a piece went flying about thirty feet behind one of the alliance walls. No repeats please.
http://s12.postimg.org/dw44nld7x/Stronghold_field_leak.jpg
Litter = bumper material
lol, but isn't the litter already bumper material?
http://s12.postimg.org/dw44nld7x/Stronghold_field_leak.jpg
Where did this come from?
Where did this come from?
It's a photoshopped version of the 2013 game.
The castles look wonderful though :D
jodge1706
07-01-2016, 10:31
I have great confidence that the 2nd item is some sort of flag/flag pole combination. maybe some sort of 2" x 2" flag pole that's 48 in long, item number 3 being a battery and number 1 being a tote.
Cash4587
07-01-2016, 11:32
Emphasis mine:
Edit: ... and 2015 didn't say what you could or couldn't make them from, apart from the general robot rules.
Cool. That is good to know.
Monochron
07-01-2016, 12:06
I have great confidence that the 2nd item is some sort of flag/flag pole combination. maybe some sort of 2" x 2" flag pole that's 48 in long, item number 3 being a battery and number 1 being a tote.
Why do you have that confidence? What are you basing your confidence off of?
jman4747
07-01-2016, 13:24
It is aluminum extrusion like last time. If memory serves it was donated by Novelis. They may be switching to square/rectangle tube instead of the angle.
Where did this come from?
T3_1565 is correct--I made it from the 2013 game.
It's a photoshopped version of the 2013 game.
The castles look wonderful though :D
Thanks!
There was a terrifying match on Hopper last year where a team's canburgler broke and a piece went flying about thirty feet behind one of the alliance walls. No repeats please.
Very first match of the elims & about 6" to the right of my (and left of a partner ref's), head(s) actually (2015 Hopper official scorekeeper). Cheesecaking by 987's clan....Only it wasn't a small shard, it was more like a spinning death star about as big as my stretched open hand. (Getting a very close up 3 dimensional view as it zoomed past about the same speed outbound as it did heading down toward the can...and then what seemed like a very slow motion repeating loop playing over & over in my mind.....But, usually ending with very different results beyond luckily missing the both of us).
I then very quickly realized that the official scorekeeper(s) had absolutely nothing to possibly score during the auto phase of the game and spent the next few matches during the auto period low & behind the corner of the scorers table during the can wars, but always at pad/post w/ clicker in hand ready for the tele portion of the match...The act (as expected), did repeat at least once more a few matches later, and traveled the same exact path head high and close to her head again. Very scary when only protected by mere safety glasses....It did warrant your attention to say the very least.
Sperkowsky
07-01-2016, 22:40
For those who want to see the match here's a link to the video https://youtu.be/CKO7-nln6qM the piece flys a about 0:30 when the second arm flys back up.
Very first match of the elims & about 6" to the right of my (and left of a partner ref's), head(s) actually (2015 Hopper official scorekeeper). Cheesecaking by 987's clan....Only it wasn't a small shard, it was more like a spinning death star about as big as my stretched open hand. (Getting a very close up 3 dimensional view as it zoomed past about the same speed outbound as it did heading down toward the can...and then what seemed like a very slow motion repeating loop playing over & over in my mind.....But, usually ending with very different results beyond luckily missing the both of us).
I then very quickly realized that the official scorekeeper(s) had absolutely nothing to possibly score during the auto phase of the game and spent the next few matches during the auto period low & behind the corner of the scorers table during the can wars, but always at pad/post w/ clicker in hand ready for the tele portion of the match...The act (as expected), did repeat at least once more a few matches later, and traveled the same exact path head high and close to her head again. Very scary when only protected by mere safety glasses....It did warrant your attention to say the very least.
So that's where the end piece went too...It was made of pvc pipe 'claw' (including a perpindicular fiberglass rod) and it detached from long swing arm. No shards but in hind sight could be mistaken for 'death star'. Apparently our cheesecaked partners didn't have the programmed slow retraction of the extension arm working that time. Apologies to anyone traumatized:D
I keep telling my wife cheesecake can be dangerous to one's health;)
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