Robot Extension Limitations

[sgoldman]

Rules G18 and R3 state: "ROBOTS may not extend greater than 15 in. beyond the FRAME PERIMETER. Violation: FOUL"
My team was curious if this applied to the potential extension of parts, or just what extends in a match. For example, if we were to have an arm that manipulates obstacles during a match and telescopes up at the end to scale the castle (not our exact thoughts, just theoretical), it could extend 15 inches beyond the perimeter during the match, but won't. Would this pass inspection?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Zach101]

:cool: Rules G18 and R3 state: "ROBOTS may not extend greater than 15 in. beyond the FRAME PERIMETER. Violation: FOUL"
My team was curious if this applied to the potential extension of parts, or just what extends in a match. For example, if we were to have an arm that manipulates obstacles during a match and telescopes up at the end to scale the castle (not our exact thoughts, just theoretical), it could extend 15 inches beyond the perimeter during the match, but won't. Would this pass inspection?

Thanks in advance for your help!

If I am taking this question right.... As long as that part doesn't extend past 15 during telop you should be good. Even if it has the potential to go past 15 inches to climb during the end game I don't see anything wrong with it.

[Zach101]

Though here is my comment because I might see a way you can mistake my earlier reply. That potential extension part may only go longer than 15 inches as long as it during end game(last 20 seconds) and extending past 15 inches upward not horizontally.

[Jaxom]

Rules G18 and R3 state: "ROBOTS may not extend greater than 15 in. beyond the FRAME PERIMETER. Violation: FOUL"
My team was curious if this applied to the potential extension of parts, or just what extends in a match. For example, if we were to have an arm that manipulates obstacles during a match and telescopes up at the end to scale the castle (not our exact thoughts, just theoretical), it could extend 15 inches beyond the perimeter during the match, but won't. Would this pass inspection?


Read rule R3 and note the blue box underneath it. Your inspector should ask how you're going to prevent it from extending more than 15" horizontally. If you have, for example, a SW lock that uses game time from FMS to lock out the function that extends it vertically, you'd probably be good.

I'm having trouble visualizing how something like this would work, so I can't really say for sure. I suspect that even without some kind of SW lock you'd probably pass, but if so the LRI would tell the Head Ref about it, saying "it passed inspection but it might violate G18 if they're not careful."

[rich2202]

Note: The 15" rule is for the horizontal plane from the base of your robot.

The frame perimeter does not limit the height of the robot. There are other rules that do that.

[221Sarahborg]

By the description of that theoretical part of the robot, I believe our team has also looked into that strategy. I think the simple option would be to just make sure it cannot extend 15" outside of the robot's perimeter. You could either build it so it can't or maybe implement a limit switch?

[jds2001]

By the description of that theoretical part of the robot, I believe our team has also looked into that strategy. I think the simple option would be to just make sure it cannot extend 15" outside of the robot's perimeter. You could either build it so it can't or maybe implement a limit switch?

Again, I see no exceptions for the robot extension during the end game. The only exception granted is to the height limitation (which is ordinarily 54 inches). Also note the rules for the STARTING CONFIGURATION (R4) which says that you may not extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER - i.e. draw a box infinitely high with the FRAME PERIMETER and you may not break that plane with any part of your robot.

[221Sarahborg]

Again, I see no exceptions for the robot extension during the end game. The only exception granted is to the height limitation (which is ordinarily 54 inches). Also note the rules for the STARTING CONFIGURATION (R4) which says that you may not extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER - i.e. draw a box infinitely high with the FRAME PERIMETER and you may not break that plane with any part of your robot.

In 3.4.5 it starts with G17 which states the robot must stay in the 54" height on a flat floor "except during the final twenty (20) seconds of TELEOP where there is no heigh limit when a ROBOT is fully contained by the opponent's COURTYARD."

Then on the next page it has G18, "ROBOTS may not extend more than 15. in beyond their FRAME PERIMETER." Which leads me to believe that if they only referred to it for the vertical limit but not the horizontal which directly follows it, so I would think the 15" follows through to the last 20 seconds. I do tend to give unnecessary restrictions if I'm not sure, but possibly they may clear that up in a future manual update.

[jkelleyrtp]

I'm curious, does a cumulative 15 inches apply to all protrusions from the frame perimeter, or can there be multiple extensions from the frame perimeter cumulatively totaling more than 15 inches? i.e. dual intakes or wings at 14" each.

[bjtheone]

In 3.4.5 it starts with G17 which states the robot must stay in the 54" height on a flat floor "except during the final twenty (20) seconds of TELEOP where there is no heigh limit when a ROBOT is fully contained by the opponent's COURTYARD."

Then on the next page it has G18, "ROBOTS may not extend more than 15. in beyond their FRAME PERIMETER." Which leads me to believe that if they only referred to it for the vertical limit but not the horizontal which directly follows it, so I would think the 15" follows through to the last 20 seconds. I do tend to give unnecessary restrictions if I'm not sure, but possibly they may clear that up in a future manual update.

G18 is clarified with drawings (Fig 3-2) in update-02. The 15" stays in effect throughout the entire match. The plane of measurement is the orientation of the drive base. Therefore you cannot have a climbing mechanism that extends outside of the magic 15". As mentioned before, there are no height restrictions in the last 20 seconds of TELEOP.

The practical application of this rules means you need to maintain your horizontal orientation while SCALING the TOWER, or you will likely violate it and be DISABLED.

[bjtheone]

I'm curious, does a cumulative 15 inches apply to all protrusions from the frame perimeter, or can there be multiple extensions from the frame perimeter cumulatively totaling more than 15 inches? i.e. dual intakes or wings at 14" each.

No rules against multiple protrusions so it is legal.

Read and reread the last paragraph of Section 1.4. If you can come up with a brilliant and unorthodox strategy that is not against the rules and requirements it is ok. The only risk you run is that if it a somewhat obvious "loophole" of the game intent, it may be closed in an update.

The intent of this manual is that the text means exactly, and only, what it says. Please avoid interpreting the
text based on assumptions about intent, implementation of past rules, or how a situation might be in “real
life.” There are no hidden requirements or restrictions. If you’ve read everything, you know everything.

[EricH]

I'm curious, does a cumulative 15 inches apply to all protrusions from the frame perimeter, or can there be multiple extensions from the frame perimeter cumulatively totaling more than 15 inches? i.e. dual intakes or wings at 14" each.
Q&A clarified that one, too. 15" is the limit, but you can have multiple extensions within that limit.

Basically, the 15" is a distance from the Frame Perimeter. Stay inside it with anything you have out, and you're good. If something (one thing) goes over, penalties ensue of varying degrees.