locking pins on the window motors

[cpapplefamily]

Robot Rules R30-C what is the " locking pins on the window motors" Can we remove the back cover and pull the factory Shaft out using a snap-ring pliers then install our own custom shaft? Also the "Snow Blower" Motor can do this as well.

[Lil' Lavery]

Robot Rules R30-C what is the " locking pins on the window motors"
The locking pins are located between the motor itself and the gearbox housing. Some pictures can be found here:
http://wiki.team1640.com/index.php?title=Nisso-Denko_%28Window%29_Motor_Locking_Pins

Can we remove the back cover and pull the factory Shaft out using a snap-ring pliers then install our own custom shaft? Also the "Snow Blower" Motor can do this as well.
My interpretation is that this would violate R30. Best to ask this on the official Q&A system.

[Joe Johnson]

Robot Rules R30-C what is the " locking pins on the window motors" Can we remove the back cover and pull the factory Shaft out using a snap-ring pliers then install our own custom shaft? Also the "Snow Blower" Motor can do this as well.

Window motors have to keep the window hard up against the seals of the window even when the car is going down a bumpy road or else the car will whistle at highway speeds. Some window motors do this by having a very shallow worm gear that is inefficient enough that it won't backdrive even in the presence of typical car vibrations. However SOME window motors do not have this (sometimes because the engineers just goofed sometimes because the engineer didn't want to throw away that much energy -- they wanted to use it to close the window faster for example). In this case, they sometimes add a "no back clutch*" to keep the window from back driving.

Long story short, some of these no back clutches use pins. You can take these pins out. Can you make your own output shaft and install it as long as you have the motor apart? No, I don't think so. Runs afoul of the illegal motor mods rules.

Sorry.

Dr. Joe J.

*Back in my GM days, I worked with folks that came out of the Ternstedt division of GM which was a company acquired by GM largely because they had a patent on window lift system (https://www.google.com/patents/US1206052) that didn't whistle when you went down the road because it had a very clever no back clutch inside.

[Gdeaver]

We haven't used automotive motors for several years. Many automotive motors also have PTC overload protection in them. We found that using these motors in positioning applications with speed controllers that had a high PWM frequency caused self heating and problems. Did not have problems when used with lower PWM frequency victors. We have no experience with talons and PTC's. The problem was with the Jags.

[ratdude747]

I wrote a whitepaper on removing locking pins awhile back:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2685

The modification was made legal years ago (and passed on through the rules since) due to the pins vibrating into a locked position when driven by a Jaguar due to the higher frequency switching used (compared to the old Victor 88x's at least). I am not sure if the newer motor controllers have the same issue although I do know that since Jaguars, as old and discontinued as they are, are still legal, so keeping the mod legal makes sense.