View Full Version : pic: Are these legal?
Sperkowsky
31-01-2016, 11:30
[cdm-description=photo]42697[/cdm-description]
Owen Busler
31-01-2016, 11:32
Are you asking if the blue Anderson connector is legal to use on your robot?
There are a lot of things in the picture... i dont think you would pass inspection with that laptop on your robot. But that waygo should be okay.
Joey1939
31-01-2016, 11:36
After reading the manual, I found no mention of any rule prohibiting a specific color of any object. Therefore I must believe that gray pneumatic wheels are legal.
Sperkowsky
31-01-2016, 11:40
Are you asking if the blue Anderson connector is legal to use on your robot?
There are a lot of things in the picture... i dont think you would pass inspection with that laptop on your robot. But that waygo should be okay.
Yea I am asking about the blue Anderson connectors. I couldn't find anything in the manual but, I have never seen a team use any 50a power poles that were not red or pink.
Rosiebotboss
31-01-2016, 11:51
What is the part number of the blue connector?
Then refer to the blue box associated with R36.
If that doesn't answer your question, search the Official FIRST Q & A.
Yea I am asking about the blue Anderson connectors. I couldn't find anything in the manual but, I have never seen a team use any 50a power poles that were not red or pink.
The color "blue" has been trademarked by teams 234, 254, 341, and 1086 and is therefore not a legal color for other FRC robots, parts, or teams. Unfortunately you can expect legal action if you or your team use anything "blue". I would recommend against it.
Sperkowsky
31-01-2016, 12:02
The color "blue" has been trademarked by teams 254, 341 and 1086 and is therefore not a legal color for other FRC robots, parts, or teams. Unfortunately you can expect legal action if you or your team use anything "blue". I would recommend against it.
From pictures I have never seen another team use a particular color of power poles. It's a small detail but something I would expect from a team like 254.
In seriousness though, I have considered purchasing other colors from Anderson, as they do sell their connectors in many colors. You're right, it would be a nice touch if your team colors are reflected in unique ways on the robot; it's a little thing, but worth considering.
AllenGregoryIV
31-01-2016, 12:28
Please note that if you use a different color SB50 connector other than the Red type (or the special *FRC pink version of the Red type), you will not be able to connect to the Spare Parts batteries or other team's batteries. The SB50 connector series is keyed by color. A blue connector won't mate to a red connector etc.
*The pink is a special case where Anderson produced pink versions using the Red mold because they had to much of the pink plastic and wanted to use it for the donation.
I can not tell if you are joking or not. But you should be good :D
The color "blue" has been trademarked by teams 254, 341 and 1086 and is therefore not a legal color for other FRC robots, parts, or teams. Unfortunately you can expect legal action if you or your team use anything "blue". I would recommend against it.
I can not tell if you are joking or not. But you should be good :D
Yes, 'twas a joke
From pictures I have never seen another team use a particular color of power poles. It's a small detail but something I would expect from a team like 254.
We used orange in 2013 and 2014 but we decided to switch back to red so that we would be compatible with other FRC teams, as the orange ones were too hard to force together with the red ones.
Sperkowsky
31-01-2016, 15:08
We used orange in 2013 and 2014 but we decided to switch back to red so that we would be compatible with other FRC teams, as the orange ones were too hard to force together with the red ones.
Is it illegal to modify the connectors ie shave off the inside tab.
Al Skierkiewicz
31-01-2016, 15:14
Please reread Allen's post above. Robot Rules for 2016 do not specifically call out color but the Blue Box in R36 explains this further. Do not try to force different colored SB50 connectors as this may damage them. Modifying the connectors so that other colors may be used may be a violation of R66.
AllenGregoryIV
31-01-2016, 15:15
Is it illegal to modify the connectors ie shave off the inside tab.
I thought R66 would make this illegal but after rereading it I'm not sure that it does. This should be something that you Q&A.
R66 The Driver Station software, roboRIO, Power Distribution Panel, Pneumatics Control Modules,
Voltage Regulator Modules, RSL, 120A breaker, motor controllers, relay modules, Wireless Bridge,
and batteries shall not be tampered with, modified, or adjusted in any way (tampering includes
drilling, cutting, machining, rewiring, disassembling, etc.), with the following exceptions:
We also looked into using green SB50 connectors last year, but ditched the idea as soon as we realized each color was keyed differently. Not worth giving up compatibility with every other team in case you need to borrow/lend batteries at competition.
ratdude747
31-01-2016, 15:42
Are you asking if the blue Anderson connector is legal to use on your robot?
There are a lot of things in the picture... i dont think you would pass inspection with that laptop on your robot. But that waygo should be okay.
Nitpick: actually such a laptop would be legal if it were powered off a DC-DC converter and the battery removed as it is a COTS computing device. Obviously overkill, but perfectly legal by itself.
the battery removed as it is a COTS computing device.
The battery can stay if it's integral to the device.
timytamy
31-01-2016, 18:48
*The pink is a special case where Anderson produced pink versions using the Red mold because they had to much of the pink plastic and wanted to use it for the donation.
That's neat, anywhere I can read more?
AllenGregoryIV
31-01-2016, 19:02
That's neat, anywhere I can read more?
Not that I know of, that is just what I heard from people at FIRST when I asked about it.
endreman0
31-01-2016, 20:17
The batteries should not include the connectors, because the batteries come without them (Source (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-0844.htm)). So that should be legal, at least concerning R66.
The color "blue" has been trademarked by teams 254, 341 and 1086 and is therefore not a legal color for other FRC robots, parts, or teams. Unfortunately you can expect legal action if you or your team use anything "blue". I would recommend against it.
So anyone who winds up on the blue alliance is screwed?
Sperkowsky
31-01-2016, 20:56
So anyone who winds up on the blue alliance is screwed?
TheBlueAlliance.com has just been issued a take down notice.
The color "blue" has been trademarked by teams 254, 341 and 1086 and is therefore not a legal color for other FRC robots, parts, or teams. Unfortunately you can expect legal action if you or your team use anything "blue". I would recommend against it.
i think you need an update explaining what "exactly" this trademark is going be used for :rolleyes:
ratdude747
31-01-2016, 23:29
The battery can stay if it's integral to the device.
..and this is why I'm not an RI. Whoops!
i think you need an update explaining what "exactly" this trademark is going be used for :rolleyes:
All things "blue" are their sole property. I would recommend not wearing "blue jeans" or listening to "blues" music while in the pits, for instance. Also I understand this is where all the blue BaneBots wheels have disappeared to over the last couple of years.
All things "blue" are their sole property. I would recommend not wearing "blue jeans" or listening to "blues" music while in the pits, for instance. Also I understand this is where all the blue BaneBots wheels have disappeared to over the last couple of years.
FRC234 loudly objects.
:p:D:eek::rolleyes::p
For those that don't get it, that would be team Cyber Blue.
FRC234 loudly objects.
:p:D:eek::rolleyes::p
For those that don't get it, that would be team Cyber Blue.
I've edited the original post on the trademark "blue", per your reminder. I'd forgotten to list these original partners. Thanks, EricH! I'm sure I would have faced litigation myself soon.
Al Skierkiewicz
01-02-2016, 07:33
Nitpick: actually such a laptop would be legal if it were powered off a DC-DC converter and the battery removed as it is a COTS computing device. Obviously overkill, but perfectly legal by itself.
Please see R31...
In part it reads:
"Additionally, batteries integral to and part of a COTS computing device or self-contained camera are also permitted (e.g. laptop batteries, GoPro style camera, etc.),"
As to modifying the SB50/120 connectors, the intent of R66 is to prevent teams from modifying electrical items in such a way that would cause a safety issue. Removing anything from a high current electrical connector may affect the safe use of such an item. R9 is also a little more pertinent to this question. The SB connectors are tested by UL for specified current and voltage without parts removed.
What about just painting the connector? Blue, purple, green, whatever if that is important to you?
orangemoore
01-02-2016, 12:42
What about just painting the connector? Blue, purple, green, whatever if that is important to you?
I think R66 would apply and make painting the connector illegal. At least that is my take on the rules.
I think R66 would apply and make painting the connector illegal. At least that is my take on the rules.
R66 says nothing about the wires or connectors attached to the battery. It says you can't change or modify the battery (among other things).
I don't see an issue with modifying the connector to mate with another connector. This isn't reducing it's protection from a short or its current carrying capacity of the connector itself. It's like saying a car isn't safe in a crash because you took the dice off the mirror. They aren't integral to the function of the device.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn it was legal to make an adapter that goes from, say, a red SB50 to a SB100 and have it be part of your robot. Could the same thing work for blue to red SB50s, or am I mistaken?
Rosiebotboss
02-02-2016, 07:42
Please see R31...
In part it reads:
"Additionally, batteries integral to and part of a COTS computing device or self-contained camera are also permitted (e.g. laptop batteries, GoPro style camera, etc.),"
As to modifying the SB50/120 connectors, the intent of R66 is to prevent teams from modifying electrical items in such a way that would cause a safety issue. Removing anything from a high current electrical connector may affect the safe use of such an item. R9 is also a little more pertinent to this question. The SB connectors are tested by UL for specified current and voltage without parts removed.
And I'm sure they are tested without being painted or modified on the external surfaces of the connector as well. What's to prevent a team from wrapping a 1 1/2 inches of Viton around the connectors and 4 inches down the wire? Is that legal? My thought process tells me it is acting as insulting device and not allowing heat to be dissipated and possibly causing a meltdown.
The intent of R66 is to prevent the intentional modification of electrical components to maintain some reasonable level of safety. I am all for innovation, but there are some guidelines and rules we all need to stay within.
Plus, if you make it to the finals and you need to borrow a 'spare parts' battery, it will have a SB50. You won't be able to connect.
"The SB50 connector series is keyed by color."
"Plus, if you make it to the finals and you need to borrow a 'spare parts' battery, it will have a SB50. You won't be able to connect."
It will be either a black or gray connector and it won't fit the blue one. This would be the biggest reason to not use the blue connector.
The color keyed SB50's is a nice feature if you know you'll never need to mate with a different color. We did a project with them, color coded cause it was cool and then got burned when we couldn't swap around. Decided to make "color adapters" and then decided to go black/gray all around with a strip of colored tape on the connector and cable.
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