Comp. Party

[Jack]

Um... i'm not sure weather this post should be here or in the chit-chat form. but anyway...

I heard that there won't be anymore parties after the regionals on sat. night for the 03' season. Or mabey is was that they would be much smaller or something. Was this because of something that happened at a regional last year, or did i read wrong?

**EDIT**

I found this from a post a while a go dissusing the 'first' form.

Quote--

Due to the skull cracking incident, FIRST has been notified by their insurance company that they are no longer allowed to have music, dancing, or fun (just kidding ) at the team parties. This was not FIRST's decision, it was the insurance companies. The parties will be shorter, and "any entertainment or activities will be targeted to decompressing the students." Everything from skill competitions to jugglers and talent shows were proposed, but the Team Party (which is now officially called the Team Social) will not resemble those of the rescent past.

--End Quote

Where did the 'skull cracking incident' occure?

[Jon K.]

the incident was at nationals during the Mandy Moore concert when someone decided to crowd surf and got dropped

[MattK]

A stoned/drunk man dressed as a bunny jumped off the stage @ a local Blink 182 concert :rolleyes:

What has this world come to?

---- EDIT ------


Noone cought him :(

[rollncoast]

Here in Cleveland during the party at the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame they had some people on stage and some kid tried to crowd surf, but then he reached the end of the group of people willing to hold him up, and fell on his head. He didn't crack his skull as far as I know, but did have some issues brainwise.

[mtaman02]

Don't care if they make the party a lil' shorter just want the parties to happen. length of time is not relevant. just needs to be enough so that the members can have a good time and really get to know one another

[Madison]

Ha ha. Let's all make fun of the kid who was dropped on their head.

I'm not that bored.

[David Kelly]

Originally posted by Michael Krass
Ha ha. Let's all make fun of the kid who was dropped on their head.

I'm not that bored.


i dont think that is appropiate :mad:

[Ryan Dognaux]

I'm saddened (if this is true) that the team parties will be reduced just because of the actions of a few people. Doesn't a person who is going to crowd surf know they are putting their safety into the hands of others?? Unfortuantely accidents happen, and a small amount of responsibility is on the people who are supporting the surfer; still, it's the person who decides to crowd surf. Oh well, at least the parties aren't totally gone.

[Jon K.]

No, now they are reduced to a mere Team SOCIAL, which means no music, so no dance.

[Collin Fultz]

from what i remember they are in no way supposed to "get us riled up" they will be designed to calm us down...:o

[Rick]

they all suck anyways, i would always go back to the hotel and strategize for the next day since all the partys happened on friday night.

[Madison]

Originally posted by David Kelly



i dont think that is appropiate :mad:

I don't think you're appreciating the true message.

[Ricky Q.]

Originally posted by Ricksta121
they all suck anyways, i would always go back to the hotel and strategize for the next day since all the partys happened on friday night.


Just stay at your hotel and play PS2 and Uno! Woot!

[FotoPlasma]

Originally posted by falco269
Just stay at your hotel and play PS2 and Uno! Woot!

People should organize massive lan parties for right after regionals, or (because some teams attend more than one regional, which might preclude their involvement), regions should organize their own lan parties.

Hmm... I think we should really look into this. Too bad we all live so far apart (for the most part).

But anyway, the reason I'm quoting that is... ummm.. yeah! GTA3 AND CARD GAMES! wppt.

[D.J. Fluck]

Invent a game....I did and look where it took me.....


Mountain Dew Bowling brought me "fame"

so many times i get:

"hey your the mountain dew bowling dude" :D

[evulish]

I invented the 'Heeeeeeeeeyyyyy' thing...not sure how many people know about that. Me and some friends from the team went around yelling hey and tried to get other people to join in. It was cool. And I'm easily ammused.

--

Also...why would you crowd surf at a Many Moore concert? Only about 2 dozen people stayed to watch it! Sheesh.

[David Kelly]

Originally posted by D.J. Fluck
Invent a game....I did and look where it took me.....


Mountain Dew Bowling brought me "fame"

so many times i get:

"hey your the mountain dew bowling dude" :D


hmm... i showed up for the game and guess who didn't??? yeah, you!!! the inventor of the game. i guess i won

[Jon K.]

Originally posted by evulish
Also...why would you crowd surf at a Many Moore concert? Only about 2 dozen people stayed to watch it! Sheesh.

Actually a lot more then 2 dozen people stayed it was more like 5-6 dozen a least. There were about 4-5 rows of people all along the stage.

[Jack]

Originally posted by jk2005


Actually a lot more then 2 dozen people stayed it was more like 5-6 dozen a least. There were about 4-5 rows of people all along the stage.

The sad thing is that there were thousands of people there and only 5 rows of people stayed. personally, i think it was a waste of time & money. Have something meaningful to first, or a least something better that a crappy concert. Or, even better idea, let us out early so we can actually do something at epcot (see the attracations ) before thay close everything.

[Jon K.]

^I fully agree I would have liked to have enjoyed going on some rides or something.

[MattK]

I like the LAN party idea. If people are interested, let me know. Maybe we can work something out. Isnt there suppose to be a Open 802.11b network set-up?

[Ryan Dognaux]

Yeah I didn't like the way that whole epcot thing was set up, maybe FIRST will improve on alot of things this year... hopefully:confused:

[Madison]

Originally posted by AnimeRaul234
Yeah I didn't like the way that whole epcot thing was set up, maybe FIRST will improve on alot of things this year... hopefully:confused:

Maybe we can all stop for a second and consider the amount of work that goes into what we already get. It's no small feat, and guess what? Not many other people, if anybody at all, get half of Future World closed on their behalf.

If you can offer a better suggestion as to what to do for the "team experience," and it falls in line with FIRST's goals for the event, lay it out.

If not, well, you can figure out the rest, thanks.

[Katie Reynolds]

Originally posted by Michael Krass


Maybe we can all stop for a second and consider the amount of work that goes into what we already get. It's no small feat, and guess what? Not many other people, if anybody at all, get half of Future World closed on their behalf.

If you can offer a better suggestion as to what to do for the "team experience," and it falls in line with FIRST's goals for the event, lay it out.

If not, well, you can figure out the rest, thanks.

Michael, well said. I couldn't agree more.

- Katie

[Ryan Dognaux]

Don't get me wrong, I'm very appreciative of FIRST. It was my first time EVER to Florida last year and it was great!! beggers can't be choosers, but still maybe FIRST will improve on their after party this year.

[MattK]

I think people would be happier if we could just go into the parks. It should be less stress on the people setting it up and such.

Simple,

yet, fun

[Trashed20]

Originally posted by evulish
I invented the 'Heeeeeeeeeyyyyy' thing...not sure how many people know about that. Me and some friends from the team went around yelling hey and tried to get other people to join in. It was cool. And I'm easily ammused.


Our team which was 465 at the time came up with the "AAAAAA!!!!!" thing during the Great Lakes Regional of 2001. We then caried it over this year with 862 as we changed numbers and annoyed the crap out of everyone everywhere :)

[Aaron Lussier]

Originally posted by jk2005
No, now they are reduced to a mere Team SOCIAL, which means no music, so no dance.

I don't think so In a room filled with FIRST kids some one is going to sneak in some type of music thing weather it be a small stereo or a kareoke(sp?) machine there will be some music, Even If I have to beat box and bust out the break dancing.

[Greg Perkins]

I am sure that there will be a SOCIAL of some sort, like wheelman said if he breaks out the beat box, i will do the fat white-boy dance!!!!


Badjokeguy

[FotoPlasma]

Wait... no dance areas? Does that mean there might be a lot of open space?!

HACKY SACK TIME!

/me starts a circle, and waits for people to join in...

[Ian W.]

whoo! nothing beats hacky sack!

/me joins jim

by far, the best time i had playing with a hacky sack was in JFK at 7 in the morning. i wonder how many people the team pissed off... ;)

[MattK]

HACKY SACK,

/me joins in, doesnt hack the sack. Gets kicked out :(

[Trashed20]

/me joins the circle and hacks up a storm :)

[Collin Fultz]

Originally posted by Michael Krass


Maybe we can all stop for a second and consider the amount of work that goes into what we already get. It's no small feat, and guess what? Not many other people, if anybody at all, get half of Future World closed on their behalf.

If you can offer a better suggestion as to what to do for the "team experience," and it falls in line with FIRST's goals for the event, lay it out.

If not, well, you can figure out the rest, thanks.

after i was done thinking about that i thought about how much money/time i poured into first this year. for double the price of a regular ticket to disney world (that's a full day ticket mind you) we got three boring/pointless hours with people with flashing lights telling me where i could and could not go. not cool. the party at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame was nice. food could have been better, but the activities were cool. sure somebody got hurt, but the rest of the party was fun.

we put lots of money into FIRST before the party. when they charge $75 for the party afterwords, it better be a freaking good party. i'd never pay a cover charge of $75 dollars anyways, and i especially won't now because i was bored out of my mind.

[TravisCarpenter]

When the parties bore you, good ole fun with friends in the hotel room never gets old.

[MattK]

O god, thats scary

[Madison]

Originally posted by collin234

we put lots of money into FIRST before the party. when they charge $75 for the party afterwords, it better be a freaking good party. i'd never pay a cover charge of $75 dollars anyways, and i especially won't now because i was bored out of my mind.

I am not getting into a debate about the event fee again. It was financially responsible, and helps keep FIRST fiscally solvent.

There are many other threads that deal with how the event fee was structured, how it worked, etc.

The Team Party, at Epcot, after the Closing Ceremonies was not $75. Ever. At all. It was $30 per person. This is what FIRST charged additional participants, parents, and sponsors who wanted to attend.

So, then, to return to your statement.

A single day admission ticket to one of Walt Disney World's four major theme parks, including tax, is $50.88.

Times two? $101.76. So, your $75 figure isn't exactly double the price of a regular ticket.

Next.

You paid $30 for the party, not $75.

Next.

You were given free food (and there's lots of it), free entertainment, exclusive access to an entire section of a theme park, and after-hours admission.

For a moment, consider the lost revenue Disney incurs just by closing Future World an hour earlier? No dinner sales (outside of the Coral Reef restaurant, anyway), and no merchandise sales. Add into that the wages paid to the crowd control cast members.

Come up with a general number for the price of the food you consume, while you're at it.

I still think $30, whether you pay it at the gate, through the event fee, or through a WDW-FIRST package, is a steal.

Not for anything, I worked for two days just to help assemble the Long Island regional last season, and I wouldn't expect anyone to take my work for granted. I am proud of what I did, and would do it again in a heartbeat, but to read the comments of a bunch of people who're completely detached from everything that's going on behind the scenes is, honestly, disgusting.

Collin, do you care to refute my argument?

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally posted by The wheelman


I don't think so In a room filled with FIRST kids some one is going to sneak in some type of music thing weather it be a small stereo or a kareoke(sp?) machine there will be some music, Even If I have to beat box and bust out the break dancing.

I like the box idea, it would be really cool if we had like a contest for the best drum beats using only items you FIND at the competition :D

[Trashed20]

Originally posted by TravisCarpenter
When the parties bore you, good ole fun with friends in the hotel room never gets old.

That is more than slightly disturbing.

[FotoPlasma]

Originally posted by Ian W.
whoo! nothing beats hacky sack!

/me joins jim

by far, the best time i had playing with a hacky sack was in JFK at 7 in the morning. i wonder how many people the team pissed off... ;)

Heh... I remember the flight to Orlando, for Nationals, last season (2002). Three teenagers, two with bleeched hair, one with bright blue hair (me), playing hacky sack around noon on the curb area of the Kansas City, MO, airport. Needless to say (which is why I'm typing it), we got more than our share of dirty looks from the locals.

Ohm my... that was fun...

[RicNic_team930]

man no one danced at our party there was music and those air machinces you can jump in and races with tricicles and floor hockey and volleyball and basketball but no dancing or stage. yet people on my team dont like to party some didn't go and those who did go only wanted to talk about first.
i thought the party was suposed to distract you from all the hectic stuff about first.
hey chandler and i still had fun:)
but we had to be back to the hotel by 11:00 :(
Motorola region was awsome

[Greg Perkins]

i love to hacky sack around, although i am not a pro, iam large, but can still move like a bat outa hell!!!

yea our team arrived at all-star sports at 1:30 in he morning 2 days before the comp. well it took antoher hour to get our rooms in order so we started a hack game in the dark, wow!!, its really hard!!

Badjokeguy

[Collin Fultz]

Originally posted by Michael Krass


I am not getting into a debate about the event fee again. It was financially responsible, and helps keep FIRST fiscally solvent.


it sounds (and looks) to me like you are

Originally posted by Michael Krass
There are many other threads that deal with how the event fee was structured, how it worked, etc.

The Team Party, at Epcot, after the Closing Ceremonies was not $75.

yah, we had to recruit parents to go buy tickets. the fee was $75 for those on a team...$30 not on team, so we had five parents go max out credit cards to buy tickets for us and a few other teams.

Originally posted by Michael Krass
[B] Ever. At all. It was $30 per person. This is what FIRST charged additional participants, parents, and sponsors who wanted to attend.

So, then, to return to your statement.

A single day admission ticket to one of Walt Disney World's four major theme parks, including tax, is $50.88.

Times two? $101.76. So, your $75 figure isn't exactly double the price of a regular ticket.
we didn't get two theme parks we got one and it sucked...i wound up sitting on a bench (actually, i sat on one bench and was forced to move because that bench wasn't cleared for FIRST participants) and looked over strategies for the matches we lost to figure out what went wrong.

Originally posted by Michael Krass
[B]Next.

You paid $30 for the party, not $75.
previously addressed (i know because i helped recruit parents and had to swear that they'd be reimbursed)

Originally posted by Michael Krass
[B]
Next.

You were given [b]free food
it sucked and there was no where to sit and i was tired
Originally posted by Michael Krass
(and there's lots of it) no there wasn'tOriginally posted by Michael Krass
[B]
, [b]free entertainment it's been established earlier in the thread that mandy moore is hardly entertainmentOriginally posted by Michael Krass
, exclusive access to an entire section of a theme park, the part that sucked and nothing was openOriginally posted by Michael Krass
and [b]after-hours admission. that i paid enough for it should have been a full day of admission
Originally posted by Michael Krass
[B]

For a moment, consider the lost revenue Disney incurs just by closing Future World an hour earlier? No dinner sales (outside of the Coral Reef restaurant, anyway), and no merchandise sales. Add into that the wages paid to the crowd control cast members. i did, then i considered how much money i poured into food during nats. i'm not sure if anybody else noticed this, but when you ordered the value meal from the stand, they charged 50 cents more than if you ordered everything separate...hmmmmm.

Originally posted by Michael Krass
[B]

Come up with a general number for the price of the food you consume, while you're at it. previously addressed

Originally posted by Michael Krass
[B]

I still think $30, whether you pay it at the gate, through the event fee, or through a WDW-FIRST package, is a steal.
not 30, 75Originally posted by Michael Krass
[B]
Not for anything, I worked for two days just to help assemble the Long Island regional last season, and I wouldn't expect anyone to take my work for granted. I am proud of what I did, and would do it again in a heartbeat, but to read the comments of a bunch of people who're completely detached from everything that's going on behind the scenes is, honestly, disgusting.
i worked during the off-season to plan and host the IRI. i am not saying it is near regional status in what goes into it, but i know exactly what you mean about crap behind the scenes. a group of I]students[/I] did trophy's, projection, team layout, shirt design, company sponsors, built and transported three goals (our team captain drove around with 200 lbs of filanges in the back of his lumina for two months) and the list goes on. i know [exactly what you mean.Originally posted by Michael Krass
[B]

Collin, do you care to refute my argument?

i do and i did...however in the "spirit of FIRST" (the most overused expression ever) i am willing to recognise that we disagree on this and i can never change your mind, and in turn you cannot change mine. however, let's put it behind us and focus our attention on things we can change, because there's nothing either of us can do about last year's team party at nationals. bygones.:)

[Wetzel]

Colin:
Umm...no.
You are wrong. I have to much math to do now to write it all out for you. Maybe when I get home tomorrow after class I will find the time to spell it out for you.


Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~
E:\David Bowie\David Bowie - Changes.mp3

[Madison]

Originally posted by collin234


it sounds (and looks) to me like you are




Well, then, humor me in the interest of debate. There's nothing as damaging as misinformation (Not to be confused with Miss Information, who seems friendly on all acounts).


yah, we had to recruit parents to go buy tickets. the fee was $75 for those on a team...$30 not on team, so we had five parents go max out credit cards to buy tickets for us and a few other teams


Allow me to reference ]FIRST's Event Fee (http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/eventfee.htm) page, please.

If you read that, you'll see that participating students on teams that booked outside of a Walt Disney Co. subsidized package were assessed a per person, $75 fee. Parents and sponsors, it notes, were charged $30 for a wristband to enter the Wrap Party.

Only $30 from the larger $75, however, went toward the Team Party. The rest subsidized other costs. The vBulletin Search engine won't let me search for 'event fee' per se, but I've already broken down the cost of a subsidized package versus that of a unsubsidized package and event fee. They're virtually identical, though if I recall correctly, the subsidized packages saved something negilible, like $5 per student.

So, in the end, you payed $30 for the party. Similarly, another fraction of that went to defray the cost of providing bus transportation to all teams.


we didn't get two theme parks we got one and it sucked...i wound up sitting on a bench (actually, i sat on one bench and was forced to move because that bench wasn't cleared for FIRST participants) and looked over strategies for the matches we lost to figure out what went wrong.

Forgive me for not elucidating my point better. You asserted that you paid twice the price of a normal entry ticket for sub-par everything. You were incorrect, if not because you paid less than the cost of a single-day admission ticket, then because $75 isn't twice $50.88.

Your opinion of Epcot, as it relates to this debate, is irrelevant.



it sucked and there was no where to sit and i was tired
no there wasn't it's been established earlier in the thread that mandy moore is hardly entertainment the part that sucked and nothing was open that i paid enough for it should have been a full day of admission


Again, I can't force you to like what was provided. As I mentioned just a moment ago, though, your opinion of the services provided is not what I'm contending. Instead, I'm illustrating that your were charged a nominal fee for certain services.

In my opinion, that fee was beyond reasonable, considering the services provided. If you want to contend that services were provided, go ahead. If you don't like Mandy Moore, that's not my problem, nor FIRST's.

You always have the option to abstain from participating, and I suspect that you may exercise that right in the future.



i did, then i considered how much money i poured into food during nats. i'm not sure if anybody else noticed this, but when you ordered the value meal from the stand, they charged 50 cents more than if you ordered everything separate...hmmmmm.


You didn't mention whether you're dealing with the food vendors at the competition site, or within the parks themselves. I didn't eat at the competition site, but I'm fairly certain that the food is provided by an outside vendor. I can't speak for the prices.

In any case, I was specifically referring to the food you consumed during the team party; or, more appropriately, what an average person might consume. Even if nobody ate anything, the food still needs to be paid for.


i do and i did...however in the "spirit of FIRST" (the most overused expression ever) i am willing to recognise that we disagree on this and i can never change your mind, and in turn you cannot change mine. however, let's put it behind us and focus our attention on things we can change, because there's nothing either of us can do about last year's team party at nationals. bygones.:)

I welcome disagreement. In fact, I probably thrive on it. But, unless you're going to support your diminishing comments with legitimate claims, suggestions, or examples, I would prefer that you keep them out of intelligent discussion.

If you continue to elucidate your points further with examples, you can whine all day and all night. I don't care. But, please, don't devalue the hard work of others because you think Mandy Moore sucks, or because you didn't have a good time.

You were charged a nominal fee, which more than payed for itself by setting foot into Epcot alone, and to criticize that without providing any examples whatsoever how to improve upon things is demoralizing and useless.

See, isn't debate fun? Gracious professionalism means that we respect differing ideas, opinions, and methods of being. It does not mean that we shut our mouths at the first sign of controversy.

[MBiddy]

Watch out for experimental chambers that increase the force of gravity at the team parties. You don't want to mess with those.

[Collin Fultz]

Originally posted by Michael Krass




If you read that, you'll see that participating students on teams that booked outside of a Walt Disney Co. subsidized package were assessed a per person, $75 fee. Parents and sponsors, it notes, were charged $30 for a wristband to enter the Wrap Party.

we didn't. if you booked a WDC subsideized package you had to pay even more for meaningless crap that Walt thinks i can't live without.
Originally posted by Michael Krass


Only $30 from the larger $75, however, went toward the Team Party. The rest subsidized other costs. The vBulletin Search engine won't let me search for 'event fee' per se, but I've already broken down the cost of a subsidized package versus that of a unsubsidized package and event fee. i can't help what they do and don't get from my money. if they only get 30 from everybody's original 75 we still have to pay the 75. if i charged $50 for a crappy shirt i couldn't justify it by saying, well, i only get 25 from it, the rest goes to fund the free coffee in the executive board room.



Originally posted by Michael Krass
elucidating
nice word

Originally posted by Michael Krass


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Michael Krass
[B]You didn't mention whether you're dealing with the food vendors at the competition site, or within the parks themselves. competition site, remember the fairly large blue tent?
Originally posted by Michael Krass
I didn't eat at the competition site, but I'm fairly certain that the food is provided by an outside vendor. I can't speak for the prices. i can and i was appauled

Originally posted by Michael Krass


I welcome disagreement. In fact, I probably thrive on it. But, unless you're going to support your diminishing comments with legitimate claims, suggestions, or examples, I would prefer that you keep them out of intelligent discussion. this has gone way beyond intelligent discussion.

Originally posted by Michael Krass

If you continue to elucidate your points further with examples
cool word the first time...not so cool anymore (use a thesaurus)
Originally posted by Michael Krass
See, isn't debate fun? Gracious professionalism means that we respect differing ideas, opinions, and methods of being. It does not mean that we shut our mouths at the first sign of controversy.
"Gracious Professionalism" once again another overused phrase that has lost all meaning. Yes, debate is fun. however, i have a life. i don't have time to look for meaningless facts while i wait on somebody to respond to a forum argument. i did not shut my mouth. i voiced my opinion, you voiced yours, i voiced mine (and tried to end it), you voiced yours (thus once again calling me out) and so i backed up my opinion with basically things that i have said before. you haven't really produced any new information that should make anybody change their mind. i (sorrowfully) will not be attending nationals this year as my team is an even number and it will be an odd year, so we cannot have this debate again. for those who are there, it becomes a good case of buyer beware...FIRST is a great organization when it comes to the game/recruiting/awards etc etc etc. however, learn to party.
now i will attempt to end this (again) in the immortal words of my mother. "he started it and you end it. be the bigger person" i did and i am.

[Ricky Q.]

Originally posted by collin234

we didn't. if you booked a WDC subsideized package you had to pay even more for meaningless crap that Walt thinks i can't live without.
i can't help what they do and don't get from my money. if they only get 30 from everybody's original 75 we still have to pay the 75. if i charged $50 for a crappy shirt i couldn't justify it by saying, well, i only get 25 from it, the rest goes to fund the free coffee in the executive board room.

I'm not a big person, so I'm going to chime in on this. You paid the $75 dollars because you and your team chose not to purchase a Disney Resort package for the Championships. That money went towards the site production / logistics, bus transport, and the wrap party. Everyone else that booked with Disney didn't have to pay the $75 beacause it was included with our package. So either way, everyone ended up paying for the buses, the site, and the party.

As for the food, if you would have purchased a Disney package you would have gotten lunch and breakfast coupons which easily would have saved you money and then you proabably wouldnt be complaining about the prices, I know they were high, but its Disney. My friends and I easily got $10-$15 worth of food from every coupon, which is why FIRST encouraged buying the Disney packages.

As for all the other ".. meaningless crap that Walt thinks i can't live without." that you got with the Disney packages, I think it was a good deal, food, a park hopper, hotel, and Disney transport.

So all in all, everyone eventually paid the $75, some seperate and some within their packages.

We can't help that you didn't enjoy the party / entertainment, you can't please everyone, but you sure can try and I think FIRST tried pretty hard.

[Jeff Waegelin]

Well said, Ricky. That's about what I was going to say. I know it seems a little excessive to be charged $75 in addition to everything else, but when you look at what you get, it's not bad.

[Mike Soukup]

Originally posted by collin234
this has gone way beyond intelligent discussion.
You are correct it has, but only because you chose to take it down that path. Not once did Michael get personal or attack you. You took the discussion in that direction, not him. What is the point of bringing another person's choice of words into an intelligent conversation? It merely insults the other person, exhibits a lack of debating skill, and fails to provide any meaningful argumentative points. Instead of real debate you have taken the conversation down the path of pop culture debate where one either shouts down one's opponent, picks apart small meaningless points of an opponent's argument, presents personal opinions as fact, or resorts to personal insults. In order to hold a civil debate, avoid these tactics at all costs.

Originally posted by Michael Krass
See, isn't debate fun? Gracious professionalism means that we respect differing ideas, opinions, and methods of being. It does not mean that we shut our mouths at the first sign of controversy.
Nicely put Michael, I couldn't have said it better myself, but of course I'll try anyway. Quality debate without personal attacks can be very constructive; a little debate now and then is healthy. As long as people stick to the subject there is nothing wrong with discussing disagreements with others.

Far too often people on these forums have called for the end to discussions just because they have gotten intense. Why? As long as the conversation stays civil and non-personal, let it continue and some good ideas may come out of it.

Mike

[Madison]

Originally posted by collin234


we didn't. if you booked a WDC subsideized package you had to pay even more for meaningless crap that Walt thinks i can't live without.


I am quoting the entire body of a message I'd written several months ago, outlining the cost of a Disney package versus what you might achieve on your own - booking under normal conditions.

* * *

Our team opted for the 5 day package at Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort.

The cost? $443.69 per person assuming four people to a room.

If I were to book this same thing independently, accounting for everything included in the package, for four people, this is what I came up with:

Room: Regular season rate of $154/night. We'll round to $160 and be generous about hotel taxes and things.

So, one hotel room for four nights - $616.00

Park Media: Four day park hopper pass, adult rate - $203.52 +tax. I'm ignoring tax.

So, passes for four people - $814.08

Food: The package provides for 3 breakfast coupons and 3 lunch/dinner coupons per person. I'm assuming prices, and being a bit generous here. So, I'm making each meal coupon a value of $10.

6 meals, four people, $10 per meal - $240.00

Commemorative Gift: We get a t-shirt.

4 T-shirts @$20 - $80.00

Grand total? $1750.08
Price per person? $437.52

What're we paying again? $443.69. ~$5 more.

So, as best as I can see (unless I'm overlooking something huge here), things on the Disney end of things seem Kosher. This neglects to mention of course, the costs passed on to each person to cover the costs associated with the event's infrastructure, and all of the rippling costs that Disney and FIRST presumably absorb.

Seems like a good deal to me.

* * *

You can find that thread ]here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1698&perpage=15&highlight=Caribbean%20Beach&pagenumber=1).

Essentially, what this proves is that the price of the package is no different than booking the same thing on your own - except that the package includes a group discount which lowers the overall price, and then adds the $75 event fee, bringing the total to about the same.

In the end? Book through Disney and get the same price as if you booked on your own, but also help to pay for the overhead cost of running the event. Book on your own, possibly save money, and be assesssed a $75 fee.

This is, to quote Mr. Willy Wonka, "clear as crystal." The numbers don't lie, I'm afraid. If you don't want the t-shirt or the meal coupons, book on your own, pay the event fee, and be done with it.


i can't help what they do and don't get from my money. if they only get 30 from everybody's original 75 we still have to pay the 75. if i charged $50 for a crappy shirt i couldn't justify it by saying, well, i only get 25 from it, the rest goes to fund the free coffee in the executive board room.


Again, forgive me for assuming something about this discussion. Disney operates at a loss for this event. They make no money whatsoever from the event itself. You pay $75. From that, $30 goes to party. An additional $10, perhaps, goes to setting up the tents, $5 to providing bus transportation, $5 to paying Mandy Moore, and $25 goes to staff salaries. There is no profit.

So, given that, your example is extraneous.


competition site, remember the fairly large blue tent?
. . . i can and i was appauled

As Ricky has previously mentioned, I'm fairly certain that the meal coupons provided you with more food per dollar that you might otherwise receive. Without the meal coupons, caveat emptor.

this has gone way beyond intelligent discussion.

Again, allow me refer to another post. Mike Soukup hit the nail on the head here. Thanks, Mike.


cool word the first time...not so cool anymore (use a thesaurus)


Well, again keeping in mind what Mike has written, allow me to further point out that I don't need the aid of a thesaurus to make my arguments seem powerful and intelligent. They already are powerful and intelligent, and on their own merit, thanks.


"Gracious Professionalism" once again another overused phrase that has lost all meaning.


In fairness, you were the first to mention it. If and how it is overused, if at all, is another discussion entirely.


Yes, debate is fun. however, i have a life. i don't have time to look for meaningless facts while i wait on somebody to respond to a forum argument.


And similarly, I am not one to allow misinformation and incorrect facts, researched or otherwise, to stand unchallenged in a public forum. I hope that, given the extensive resources and links I have provided, I haven't wasted too of your time with these meaningless facts.

Again, I'll reiterate - feel free to share your opinions with us here on the ChiefDelphi forums, but please understand that for such a community to work efficiently and to affect real, positive change, it requires that we each take responsibility for our actions. In that vein, I don't believe that one should post anything, lest they be ready and willing to be taken to task, and asked to defend their claim. If you're not willing to spend the time necessary to make an intelligent criticism of what I've written, please don't reply; or, better yet, don't post in the first place.


now i will attempt to end this (again) in the immortal words of my mother. "he started it and you end it. be the bigger person" i did and i am.

In my mind, this is nothing but a clever attempt at passive-aggressive behavior, as it stresses, somehow, that I'm at fault, or otherwise unfairly asking for your defense of what I perceive to be an untenable argument.

The choice to reply always lies with you, just as it does with me. I won't say anything more, for fear of going, "way beyond intelligent discussion."

[MBiddy]

I think the food from 2 years ago was better than this year.

[D.J. Fluck]

Originally posted by MBiddy
I think the food from 2 years ago was better than this year.

Yes 2000's party was a lot better than the previous ones, it still wasnt good, but it was better

Biddy: were you even around in 2000? and if so what team were you with

[MBiddy]

I mean the 2001 season. It was also more exciting than 2002. We were 465 then.

[Ryan Dognaux]

lol it seems that this "debating" about the National Competition's Party might last until the next one...;)

[D.J. Fluck]

Originally posted by AnimeRaul234
lol it seems that this "debating" about the National Competition's Party might last until the next one...;)


OO I have a feeling that this debate could go on for several years if Mr Brandon doesnt close it first

[Jack]

if he dosn't close it, i'll delete my first post, and stop if for good!

Let it go.

<happy voice used in the end of disney movies> The end </happy voice used in the end of disney movies>

[Collin Fultz]

Originally posted by Michael Krass
Collin, do you care to refute my argument?

not to dwell, but that sounds like more of a personal attack than anything i said.


bygones.

[Madison]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Michael Krass
Collin, do you care to refute my argument?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



not to dwell, but that sounds like more of a personal attack than anything i said.


...or, a simple question.

But, like you said, 'bygones'. People can read this and decide for themselves who provided a solid argument.

[David Kelly]

collin, michael please.... this isn't the place... :(

[Brandon Martus]

yeah. what he said --^

[Mike Schroeder]

Hey Ummmmm Can't we all just get along

won't somebody think of the children, oh won't somebody please think of the children:confused:

[Chris Fultz]

I can't hold back.

Park Hopper passes may have a cost, but are of no value if you do not have the time to use them. Including them in your cost comparison assumes that you were able to make full use of them and thus receive value from them. If not, the self plan program was a better deal.

You stated that "First needs this to remain financially viable" and "Disney loses money on this". Do you have fact and published figures to back up these statements, or are they simply stated and accepted as fact? Have you evere seen a FIRST financial statement? I have not, and do not know if FIRST is a profitable or non-profitable non-profit organization.

I personally find it hard to believe Disney loses money on anything. They are in the entertainment business, and they are in it to make money.

All of this provided in the true spirit of debate - If you state something of fact, you should be able to back it up.

'nuff said.

[Jack]

ahh...

I tried to delete my first post to delete this thread, but it said that i couldn't edit it after 24 hours!!!!!

Just let it go.

This is now a pointless argument.

Brandon, let me delete my first post, please. (or close it)

[Madison]

Originally posted by Chris Fultz
I can't hold back.

Park Hopper passes may have a cost, but are of no value if you do not have the time to use them. Including them in your cost comparison assumes that you were able to make full use of them and thus receive value from them. If not, the self plan program was a better deal.


This is a valid point. However, to maintain a fair comparison, I included them. I realize that many teams don't make 'adequate' use of the passes, but in 3 years of attending Nationals, I have made good use of them. In either case, my comparison served more as a justification and explanation of the costs associated with the event fee than it did as a cost-effective vacation planning seminar. Sorry if there was any confusion, but it doesn't change the validity of the event fee.


You stated that "First needs this to remain financially viable" and "Disney loses money on this". Do you have fact and published figures to back up these statements, or are they simply stated and accepted as fact? Have you evere seen a FIRST financial statement? I have not, and do not know if FIRST is a profitable or non-profitable non-profit organization.


I am basing that on statements that have been made here, and in the thread I referenced, in particular, that were made by people with direct contact and involvement with FIRST and Nationals planning.


I personally find it hard to believe Disney loses money on anything. They are in the entertainment business, and they are in it to make money.


In the end, I would imagine that Disney ends up making a profit off of our visit. But, I don't think it's derived from the event fee. That is speculation on my part, based particularly on Dave Lavery's breakdown of Nationals costs.

While it's pretty clear that the debate here has escalated to include a lot of varied, unrelated subject matter, please remember that original point of contention was the cost of the Wrap Party to participants and non-participants alike, how it was concealed within the Event Fee, and how that Event Fee is justifiable.

Everyone else:

I can tell that a lot of people think I'm taking this personally, or that 'I just have to win'. That's simply not the case. I think some of what has been argued in this thread is totally innane, some of it is entirely wrong, and some of it has value.

I'm personally quite offended that, with Brandon being the exception (due to his high holy moderator powers), others think it's their position to make attempts at censoring my viewpoint. Sadly, in real life, when people disagree, you can't just make it go away. I can't see why these boards should be any different.

You are all quite aware of the content of this thread by now. You're capable of skipping over its content. I don't understand how, when intelligent debate flourishes, and possesses a real chance at clarifying what appears to be a very popular misconception, people can call it to an end. I realize it's been summer, and people have been off from school, but I've been quite disappointed by some of the content on this site, and I'm further disappointed that, when I make an effort to provide intelligent, thoughtful ideas or criticism, it's viewed unappreciably.

[Greg Perkins]

ahh, too much bickering, we should all just get along:)



Badjokeguy

[Ryan Dognaux]

Speaking of all this Disney money stuff, apparently Disney has raised their ticket prices... again...?? don't they have enough money already, oh well I guess it'll be put to good use

[Madison]

Originally posted by AnimeRaul234
Speaking of all this Disney money stuff, apparently Disney has raised their ticket prices... again...?? don't they have enough money already, oh well I guess it'll be put to good use

Did they? I missed the news on this. Shame on me.

It's not that unusual, though. Most, if not all Central Florida theme parks raise their admission price $1 to $1.50 annually.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally posted by Michael Krass


Did they? I missed the news on this. Shame on me.

It's not that unusual, though. Most, if not all Central Florida theme parks raise their admission price $1 to $1.50 annually.

Really? Interesting, yeah it wasn't anything too big I think the tickets were raised two dollars and the park hoppers were raised seven dollars.

[David Kelly]

another reason why i don't go the theme parks. it's not worth the rediculious price

[RBrandy]

good call

[RBrandy]

we went to the beach on the last day and it was just as fun as going to a park and it didnt cost anything

[Madison]

I'm scared of the water.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Why couldn't we let this die a peaceful death? We each made our points. Some more than others.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Legends never die.

[Collin Fultz]

Originally posted by Michael Krass
Why couldn't we let this die a peaceful death? We each made our points. Some more than others.

thanks michael...i tried. sorry you couldn't defend yours better.

[Katie Reynolds]

Stop. Please.

[Ryan Dognaux]

"It Has Begun!" - Shang Tsung. (That is, It has begun again).

[Mark Hamilton]

Getting back on the topic of the Party, Id like to point out that a lot of the regionals could learn from the Chicago regional last year. Everyone had so much fun, lots of things to do. Usually theres some kinda music only 1/3 of the ppl like, and even if you do like it they wont let you have any real fun with it. The KSC team party in the Saturn V building was pretty cool too, but got boring quickly. The nationals last year was also pretty boring, whenever we found some music we liked they changed it (or made us move).