View Full Version : Update 12
10th Defense? Is this true or false
For those unaware, Team Update 12: https://firstfrc.blob.core.windows.net/frc2016manuals/TeamUpdates/12.pdf
10th Defense? Is this true or false
If you followed the directions written in the update, you would've seen this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF0rj-FXcEI.
notmattlythgoe
19-02-2016, 11:00
For those unaware, Team Update 12: https://firstfrc.blob.core.windows.net/frc2016manuals/TeamUpdates/12.pdf
If you followed the directions written in the update, you would've seen this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF0rj-FXcEI.
Why put that in a Team Update? Obviously all it is going to do is confuse people. Like the game manual and updates aren't confusing enough as it is.
This was a poor attempt at being funny at a terribly stressful time in the season. Please don't ever do something like this in the official rules documents again.
AndrewPospeshil
19-02-2016, 11:00
I've been hunting for it also. Maybe it's because I'm on my phone at school (during lunchtime, not class, I promise!) but I can't find anything about this 10th defense other than the mention that it's supposedly been added in Update 12. The FIRST app doesn't seem to include any mention of it in the manual, nor the FIRST website - Section 2 of the Game Manual was last updated on the 16th. Can any other CD users with an actual computer verify that I'm not going crazy?
EDIT: Nevermind. We got memed hard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF0rj-FXcEI
orangemoore
19-02-2016, 11:02
I've been hunting for it also. Maybe it's because I'm on my phone at school (during lunchtime, not class, I promise!) but I can't find anything about this 10th defense other than the mention that it's supposedly been added in Update 12. The FIRST app doesn't seem to include any mention of it in the manual, nor the FIRST website - Section 2 of the Game Manual was last updated on the 16th. Can any other CD users with an actual computer verify that I'm not going crazy?
Go into the team updates manual in the FIRST app and click the picture.
(But honestly I didn't need this in a team update)
I don't understand why it was a part of the update if it was a spoof.
thatnameistaken
19-02-2016, 11:04
I've been hunting for it also. Maybe it's because I'm on my phone at school (during lunchtime, not class, I promise!) but I can't find anything about this 10th defense other than the mention that it's supposedly been added in Update 12. The FIRST app doesn't seem to include any mention of it in the manual, nor the FIRST website - Section 2 of the Game Manual was last updated on the 16th. Can any other CD users with an actual computer verify that I'm not going crazy?
The video is only in the team update pdf itself because it's a joke.
PayneTrain
19-02-2016, 11:04
"You know what would really enhance our official documentation? Bad memes!"
-people that clearly hate me
It's a ruse! We've been duped! Hoodwinked! Bamboozled! We've been smeckledorfed!
I just looked on the FIRST app; unless actual dragon fire as shown by team 2526 is going to be used in a match, this is just some kind of joke. It seems weird that they would put this in an actual team update, but I guess....
Zebra_Fact_Man
19-02-2016, 11:08
I know they are playing on the previous expectation of an end game being added in 2014 (which obviously never happened), but I think this is in poor taste. Nothing against the team that made this vid, but FIRST shouldn't do this to us rather stressed individuals.
Updates and the Manual are no place for jokes and goofing around.
It's a ruse! We've been duped! Hoodwinked! We've been smeckledorfed!
This is very true. If there goal was to freak us out, they have succeeded.
MamaSpoldi
19-02-2016, 11:10
Agreed... the 10th defense video in the Team Update was unnecessarily nerve-wracking. :(
Has anyone else tried to get the driverstation update? It does not appear to be posted on the NI website yet... :(
IronicDeadBird
19-02-2016, 11:13
I know they are playing on the previous expectation of an end game being added in 2014 (which obviously never happened), but I think this is in poor taste. Nothing against the team that made this vid, but FIRST shouldn't do this to us rather stressed individuals.
Going to have to agree with you. Teams shouldn't be using places that are highly referenced for jokes. I imagine the fallout of this is going to be a bunch of blow back on the Q&A going...
"Real?"
Which I in all honesty considered doing upon seeing it in the manual, except with more colorful language.
We've been smeckledorfed!
That's not even a word and I agree with ya!
Rangel(kf7fdb)
19-02-2016, 11:17
Update 13: Low bar is now 2" shorter. Design accordingly. :)
lol, that was a pretty good troll. Now we can say we are more like Battlebots because have fire too!
Ginger Power
19-02-2016, 11:18
Personally I see this as a harmless joke. I like that FIRST is putting the work of FRC teams out there for all to see. I'd really like to see more of it. Was this the best avenue for FIRST to show off this video? Absolutely not, it should have been in a blog, but I still appreciate the direction that FIRST is headed.
They Got me for a second then I realized it was a joke. Would of be cool to have a dragon somewhere on the field since is a medieval theme only thing missing was a dragon
Why put that in a Team Update? Obviously all it is going to do is confuse people. Like the game manual and updates aren't confusing enough as it is.
This was a poor attempt at being funny at a terribly stressful time in the season. Please don't ever do something like this in the official rules documents again.
Came here to say this.
Blog post? Amusing, fine. In an official rules update? Childish.
I expected better from the normally community-friendly, on message - and yes, sometimes funny - FRC folks.
PayneTrain
19-02-2016, 11:23
Came here to say this.
Blog post? Amusing, fine. In an official rules update? Childish.
I expected better from the normally community-friendly, on message - and yes, sometimes funny - FRC folks.
The GDC is welcome to take over the threads that will result from this.
Nathan Streeter
19-02-2016, 11:28
While I think I'd prefer that FIRST have shared the amusing 10th Defense video via a blog post (or something a little less official), I hardly think it's worth all the negative sentiments...
FIRST intentionally just linked to the video, rather than making an attempt that seemed "legit" and would give people more than a moment of panic. If you didn't actually find it funny, then just make it a lesson learned that FIRST HQ does have a sense of humor (in case you missed the 2016 game announcement).
Andrew Schreiber
19-02-2016, 11:29
If the GDC intended for us to deal with dragons why was one not provided in the KoP?
Not all teams have room full of gold and priceless gems for a dragon to inhabit.
Also, what will the dragons be fed? I would assume this factors into the temperature of the breath. And from an event management perspective - will it be the responsibility of the person managing the defenses to wrangle the dragon? How big a dragon are we dealing with? This is important for districts who may not have the space to store a dragon.
(See GDC, if you can be stupid I can be stupider!) [1]
[1] If this doesn't show up in spotlight at some point I'm almost going to be sad.
notmattlythgoe
19-02-2016, 11:29
While I think I'd prefer that FIRST have shared the amusing 10th Defense video via a blog post (or something a little less official), I hardly think it's worth all the negative sentiments...
FIRST intentionally just linked to the video, rather than making an attempt that seemed "legit" and would give people more than a moment of panic. If you didn't actually find it funny, then just make it a lesson learned that FIRST HQ does have a sense of humor (in case you missed the 2016 game announcement).
Sense of humors don't belong in already complex and confusing documents.
IronicDeadBird
19-02-2016, 11:30
If you didn't actually find it funny, then just make it a lesson learned that FIRST HQ does have a sense of humor (in case you missed the 2016 game announcement).
It is also possible to have a sense of humor that doesn't compromise trust between a jester and the crowd.
Ben Martin
19-02-2016, 11:38
It is also possible to have a sense of humor that doesn't compromise trust between a jester and the crowd.
That's my problem with this. You can say "Oh, it's just a joke", but everything in the team update is law at the competition. Could we say "Oh, GXX was just a joke from the GDC, you don't need to follow that rule?" Where do you draw the line?
If it is part of the official rules, keep it serious and clear.
MrForbes
19-02-2016, 11:39
Some of you folks are upset about this? really?
I saw the video earlier in the season...I guess it wasn't a surprise to me because of that. But yeah, the GDC has a sense of humor (which is showing through very well this season!) and this is the time of build season when we all need a good laugh.
No stress today...we just have to do 12 hours of work in 3 hours, load up the robot, and head up north for our scrimmage! Oh...did I mention we need to figure out who's driving the robot?
IronicDeadBird
19-02-2016, 11:42
That's my problem with this. You can say "Oh, it's just a joke", but everything in the team update is law at the competition. Could we say "Oh, GXX was just a joke from the GDC, you don't need to follow that rule?" Where do you draw the line?
If it is part of the official rules, keep it serious and clear.
Yeah I think we are agreeing.
Hold on I'm going to change up strategy so we can demand Defense 10 per Update 12.
All this did was cause confusion and stress in a year where they already had an update where they had to address a defenses dimensions due to inconsistencies which a lot of teams were not happy about. This was playing with fire.
Ben Martin
19-02-2016, 11:45
Yeah I think we are agreeing.
Hold on I'm going to change up strategy so we can demand Defense 10 per Update 12.
All this did was cause confusion and stress in a year where they already had an update where they had to address a defenses dimensions due to inconsistencies which a lot of teams were not happy about. This was playing with fire.
Yep. Blog post is OK, but (I believe anyway, that) the rules should be pure rules.
Duncan Macdonald
19-02-2016, 11:49
And here I was hoping that the new defence would be completely flat and alliances given a coopertition point for helping the other alliance invade.
Landonh12
19-02-2016, 11:57
Can someone post a direct link to the new Driver Station version (16.0.2)? I can't find it on the ni.com/frc website.
And here I was hoping that the new defence would be completely flat and alliances given a coopertition point for helping the other alliance invade.
That would have been really cool. I originally thought it was a real defense created by FIRST as a twist. In the end it is a harmless joke, but was taken seriously due to its timing
GreyingJay
19-02-2016, 12:08
If the GDC intended for us to deal with dragons why was one not provided in the KoP?
Not all teams have room full of gold and priceless gems for a dragon to inhabit.
Also, what will the dragons be fed? I would assume this factors into the temperature of the breath. And from an event management perspective - will it be the responsibility of the person managing the defenses to wrangle the dragon? How big a dragon are we dealing with? This is important for districts who may not have the space to store a dragon.
You need to ask this in the official Q&A!
Zebra_Fact_Man
19-02-2016, 12:09
Some of you folks are upset about this? really?
http://media.tumblr.com/c41591bec07fbb793d9c3f5e07e7883a/tumblr_inline_msatniOS3j1qz4rgp.gif
It's a ruse! We've been duped! Hoodwinked! Bamboozled! We've been smeckledorfed!
That's not even a word and I agree with ya!
Smeckledorfed is now and I'm going to use it every chance I get. :rolleyes:
I'm on the fence about the announcement. I know they know that there are teams that are on the wrong side of meltdown so I think it was meant as a fun thing.
Maybe not in a team update. A Frank Friday post would have been perfect. OTOH it's a good lesson on "can you follow directions?" Teams that do will have a sigh of relief, those that can't will panic."
The GDC has put a joke in a team update. It is obviously a joke, and has no implications for the rest of build season or for competition season. Sure, maybe if these jokes happened all the time it would get pretty annoying. However, I think we should all put down our pitchforks.
We're all having a stressful end of build season. However, getting more stressed out because of this is irrational. :)
Ginger Power
19-02-2016, 12:44
"If this doesn't show up in spotlight at some point I'm almost going to be sad."
Wil Payne, you are my favorite troll.
PayneTrain
19-02-2016, 12:48
If the GDC intended for us to deal with dragons why was one not provided in the KoP?
Not all teams have room full of gold and priceless gems for a dragon to inhabit.
Also, what will the dragons be fed? I would assume this factors into the temperature of the breath. And from an event management perspective - will it be the responsibility of the person managing the defenses to wrangle the dragon? How big a dragon are we dealing with? This is important for districts who may not have the space to store a dragon.
(See GDC, if you can be stupid I can be stupider!) [1]
[1] If this doesn't show up in spotlight at some point I'm almost going to be sad.
I'm not going to let blatant self-promotion like this stand on these boards.
EDIT: i got hacked(?) nailed it
ChiefDelphi, you are slipping. The two most important questions still haven't been asked:
How much does that Dragon weigh?
How are they going to mount bumpers to it?
PayneTrain
19-02-2016, 12:50
ChiefDelphi, you are slipping. The two most important questions still haven't been asked:
How much does that Dragon weigh?
How are they going to mount bumpers to it?
The dragon gets to use the new 5 inch bumper rules so that's a good start
My APCS kids (a fair percentage of which are on 811) came in from lunch all in a panic because of the Team Update ... texts went far and wide to other members (some in other schools) ... more kids (not in APCS) came in to get the details ... and when we found the video we all had a good laugh.
(I _think_ they told all the other kids it was a hoax ... :yikes: )
MamaSpoldi
19-02-2016, 13:09
Can someone post a direct link to the new Driver Station version (16.0.2)? I can't find it on the ni.com/frc website.
Looks like they have finally updated the NI website: http://www.ni.com/download/first-robotics-software-2016/5773/en/. Although the release date still says 01/06/2016, the download name is now FRCUpdateSuite_2016.1.0 instead of FRCUpdateSuite_2016.0.0 that was previously posted.
rich2202
19-02-2016, 13:16
Given the height of our robot, it is easier for us to go under a flying dragon than the low bar.
I am going to demand Defense 10 during the practice rounds and show them team update 12 as proof of its existence. ;)
Does the update say how to defeat the dragon?
Does the update say how to defeat the dragon?
/sigh, I though this was common knowledge, you feed the Dragon corn dogs and they fly away.
http://40.media.tumblr.com/464440e9c6275a8c45635328f280a0b2/tumblr_nv23ye1Kgp1sqv60so1_500.jpg
Andrew Schreiber
19-02-2016, 13:52
You need to ask this in the official Q&A!
You know what, usually I'm not pro frivolous Q&A but in this case since it's a question regarding an actual update... someone with Q&A access SHOULD post this.
You know what, usually I'm not pro frivolous Q&A but in this case since it's a question regarding an actual update... someone with Q&A access SHOULD post this.
You didn't see it?
Q: Defense dragon?
A: Yes, Defense dragon.
PayneTrain
19-02-2016, 14:02
You know what, usually I'm not pro frivolous Q&A but in this case since it's a question regarding an actual update... someone with Q&A access SHOULD post this.
This may come as a shock to some but I am in fact pro-frivolous Q&A. (https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Question/866/re-tu12-are-we-allowed-to-use-a-dragon-that-was-fabricated-before-kickoff-as-a-practice-defense-we-have-had-many-since-1999-but-some-teams-are-in-week-6-of-their-build-and-probably-have-not-built-a)
efoote868
19-02-2016, 14:07
If your robot catches dragon fire, you've been tortuga'd.
aovozza3
19-02-2016, 14:14
When I first saw the update, I was a little confused on to why they would include this video.
However, I think they used it as a way to get teams to actually read the updates. Many teams don't take the time to stay up to date on the rules past the first week of the season.
This update in particular is important because it talks about a required update to the driver station. In the past, I have gone to tournaments where rookie and fairly new teams initially fail inspection because they do not have the current software packages. I feel that the video was a fun way to remind teams to stay up to date with the robot rules.
notmattlythgoe
19-02-2016, 14:15
When I first saw the update, I was a little confused on to why they would include this video.
However, I think they used it as a way to get teams to actually read the updates. Many teams don't take the time to stay up to date on the rules past the first week of the season.
This update in particular is important because it talks about a required update to the driver station. In the past, I have gone to tournaments where rookie and fairly new teams initially fail inspection because they do not have the current software packages. I feel that the video was a fun way to remind teams to stay up to date with the robot rules.
If they don't read them in the first place, why would adding a joke video inside of the update make them read it? They'd have to read it to know it is even there.
Bob Steele
19-02-2016, 14:16
Up from the shadow of bag day....
From the depths of the Stronghold....
Humor raises its reptilian head from the GDC...
It has my overwhelming approval...
Tension Breaker.... had to be done...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgmsMMkoCac
notmattlythgoe
19-02-2016, 14:19
I feel like this is appropriate...
http://ci.memecdn.com/749/8947749.jpg
aovozza3
19-02-2016, 14:20
If they don't read them in the first place, why would adding a joke video inside of the update make them read it? They'd have to read it to know it is even there.
I would agree with you there. Maybe they hope that word will get out that "a new defense" is being added to the game and more teams will rush to read the update?
Disney animatronic dragon, this is happening
BeardyMentor
19-02-2016, 14:28
I have some high temp insulation panels in my shop. The team can refit the robot with them pretty quickly. I say, bring on the dragon. We can deal with it.
PayneTrain
19-02-2016, 14:28
I would agree with you there. Maybe they hope that word will get out that "a new defense" is being added to the game and more teams will rush to read the update?
HQ hopes for a lot of things that will never happen so I can accept this.
mfw the gdc tries to outmeme me
https://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-17-2015/KAJCag.gif
ChiefDelphi, you are slipping. The two most important questions still haven't been asked:
How much does that Dragon weigh?
How are they going to mount bumpers to it?
And is it exempt from R9-F?
R9: ROBOT parts shall not be made from hazardous materials, be unsafe, cause an unsafe condition, or interfere with the operation of other ROBOTS.
-F: Any device intended to produce flames or pyrotechnics
Michael Hill
19-02-2016, 14:38
Not all teams have room full of gold and priceless gems for a dragon to inhabit.
I'm laughing at the corollary that there would be, in fact, teams with a room full of gold and priceless gems.
XaulZan11
19-02-2016, 15:43
Serious question: What if the GDC really did introduce new defense towards the end of build season? I think it would add a realistic twist (How often do you get specifications and requirements that never change in the real world?) that would challenge the top teams and keep things exciting. The game would not inherently change (no robot or design would be significantly negatively affected) but most teams would have a little extra to do if they wanted to tackle the new defense.
rich2202
19-02-2016, 15:51
You know what, usually I'm not pro frivolous Q&A but in this case since it's a question regarding an actual update... someone with Q&A access SHOULD post this.
https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Question/866/re-tu12-are-we-allowed-to-use-a-dragon-that-was-fabricated-before-kickoff-as-a-practice-defense-we-have-had-many-since-1999-but-some-teams-are-in-week-6-of-their-build-and-probably-have-not-built-a
mrmummert
19-02-2016, 15:51
Anyone know if CO2 bottles are legal this year? Might need one for that defense.
Andrew Schreiber
19-02-2016, 16:04
I'm not going to let blatant self-promotion like this stand on these boards.
EDIT: i got hacked(?) nailed it
Don't prank me bro!
BigRickT
19-02-2016, 16:11
That was awesome, and well timed.
GaryVoshol
19-02-2016, 16:51
How much does that Dragon weigh?
African or European?
African or European?
Hungarian Horntail, Chinese Fireball or Common Welsh Green?
techhelpbb
19-02-2016, 17:21
Also, what will the dragons be fed? I would assume this factors into the temperature of the breath. And from an event management perspective - will it be the responsibility of the person managing the defenses to wrangle the dragon? How big a dragon are we dealing with? This is important for districts who may not have the space to store a dragon.
Alcohol of course. That's how most circus stunts pull this off.
Alcohol + fire + children + public venue......
Somehow the need for the big red extinguisher in the field kits just became more clear.
(I know some of you might get - hot under the collar about this - so let me head you off I posted this on my own NOT on behalf FRC11&193. If you gotta problem, I am a dragon on the Chinese zodiac (http://www.travelchinaguide.com/intro/social_customs/zodiac/dragon.htm), take it up over at my cave. Look for the pile of skeletons.)
Hungarian Horntail, Chinese Fireball or Common Welsh Green?
Sorry, those aren't options. The only options are Cargo and C (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_FXVjf46T8)r (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcHD9AmkxA0)ew (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Pm8ZY0XJI).
[/joke]
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Travis Hoffman
19-02-2016, 22:23
That's not a defense...THAT (https://youtu.be/fuNyWMAWptE?t=1m28s)'s a defense (Crocodile Dundee voice).
IronicDeadBird
19-02-2016, 22:29
As if the update wasn't bad enough, I was just talking to all my bulk suppliers of regolith. And you would not believe that everyone is out of stock due to a last minute massive order from some robotics group.
Worst day ever...
Everyone thinks the tenth defense is a joke.
But what if that's what the GDC wants you to think?;)
*Illuminati theme starts playing*
Well, it is on the official rules update after all.
Yeah this had us scrambling for a few minutes trying to figure out what was going on. How did they get permission to put that in an official update document?
Tom Line
20-02-2016, 12:10
Everyone thinks the tenth defense is a joke.
But what if that's what the GDC wants you to think?;)
*Illuminati theme starts playing*
Well, it is on the official rules update after all.
I think it's hilarious and it has given our team a much-needed moment of levity in the middle of a desperation packed weekend.
Thanks for keeping your sense of humor GDC. We appreciate it.
rich2202
20-02-2016, 12:22
How did they get permission to put that in an official update document?
It is easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.
GaryVoshol
20-02-2016, 15:55
It is easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.
Permission or forgiveness from whom? The CD Hoard?
Robosparks2926
20-02-2016, 19:48
does anyone know what the 10th defense actually is? It would be nice to know
MrForbes
20-02-2016, 20:00
does anyone know what the 10th defense actually is? It would be nice to know
It's a joke.
does anyone know what the 10th defense actually is? It would be nice to knowAfter experiencing Merrimack Week Zero, the true 10th defense are the boulders. Some robots just can't drive over them. And they are everywhere. Every. Where!
whitetail
22-02-2016, 08:47
This just wasn't needed at this time in the build season. Wow First good job at panicking every FRC team in the world.
xjschwen
22-02-2016, 09:01
After experiencing Merrimack Week Zero, the true 10th defense are the boulders. Some robots just can't drive over them. And they are everywhere. Every. Where!
Yes... I saw more than one bot having issues at the Oxford MI Week Zero event. We even pinched one in the drivetrain... and we required a boulder-ectimy.
After experiencing Merrimack Week Zero, the true 10th defense are the boulders. Some robots just can't drive over them. And they are everywhere. Every. Where!
Our team had a little trouble when our makeshift 'net' of one belt let the ball get past it and wedge itself in the frame of the robot, out of reach of the arm. We were still able to drive around, but it still was a little annoying and let us know that we were correct about needing to add more of a net to the arm.
Andrew Schreiber
22-02-2016, 11:12
Alcohol of course. That's how most circus stunts pull this off.
Alcohol + fire + children + public venue......
Somehow the need for the big red extinguisher in the field kits just became more clear.
(I know some of you might get - hot under the collar about this - so let me head you off I posted this on my own NOT on behalf FRC11&193. If you gotta problem, I am a dragon on the Chinese zodiac (http://www.travelchinaguide.com/intro/social_customs/zodiac/dragon.htm), take it up over at my cave. Look for the pile of skeletons.)
As someone who, on occasion, spits fire I can safely say how terrible an idea this is. That being said I do dislike our 2015 robot...
techhelpbb
22-02-2016, 11:39
As someone who, on occasion, spits fire I can safely say how terrible an idea this is. That being said I do dislike our 2015 robot...
You are right this should come with a disclaimer and much training by GDC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_breathing) :D
"Most people who are taught fire breathing and eating skills are seasoned performers in their own right and are taught under the condition that the skills are not passed on until they become a recognised fire performer."
abigailthefox
22-02-2016, 11:49
I would agree with you there. Maybe they hope that word will get out that "a new defense" is being added to the game and more teams will rush to read the update?
I would have to say it definitely worked...
This was playing with fire.
I like your pun there :]
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