Team 4564's Tape Measure Climber [Archive]

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Drew4564

21-02-2016, 21:45

Hey everyone,

I remember that there was some talk early-on in the season about tape measure climbing devices, such as team 3280's in 2010, being feasible for this year's challenge. Team 4564 managed to create a tape measure climber, so we thought we should share a video*. Any and all questions are welcome!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL0DOGykUOE

*Unfortunately the video was shot vertically (iPhones, man!), but the mechanism is all there!

ROULT

21-02-2016, 21:56

Awesome!!

RoboAlum

21-02-2016, 22:05

https://vimeo.com/156211827

Here's our tape measure climber. What tape did you guys use and what kind of gear reduction

Drew4564

21-02-2016, 22:13

Here's our tape measure climber. What tape did you guys use and what kind of gear reduction

That's awesome, I'm glad to see other successful tape measure designs!

We used a single CIM motor on an overall 28:1 reduction. The CIM is attached to a BaneBots 12:1 gearbox which is followed up by a 28:12 chain reduction. It's given us a good mix of speed and power.

aphelps231

23-02-2016, 13:11

How do you keep the tape from bending under the weight of the hook?

waialua359

23-02-2016, 13:15

How do you keep the tape from bending under the weight of the hook?
With the heavy duty type tape measures, you can extend it about 12ft without it bending even with a decent weighted hook on the end.
We have a tape measure climber as one of the lift versions we made this season, but it never made it on our final robot.

aphelps231

23-02-2016, 13:19

With the heavy duty type tape measures, you can extend it about 12ft without it bending even with a decent weighted hook on the end.
We have a tape measure climber as one of the lift versions we made this season, but it never made it on our final robot.

Even under driver movements, it won't bend?

I'm just imagining a lot of teams having problems of lining up without the tape bending, but I guess a better strategy is to slam into the tower all the way up the batter and then extend.

Drew4564

23-02-2016, 13:46

Even under driver movements, it won't bend?

I'm just imagining a lot of teams having problems of lining up without the tape bending, but I guess a better strategy is to slam into the tower all the way up the batter and then extend.

As Waialua359 said, heavy-duty tape measures are surprisingly resistant to bending. We spent a good amount of time ensuring that that the hooks and support bar were as light as possible, and the Fat Max style tapes can easily support the weight. We do check the tapes every so often for wrinkles/breaks, but after multiple successful climbs, have yet to see any issues.

Also, our robot does exactly what you suggested at the end of your post; we keep constant forward pressure on the wall and then extend.

Boltman

23-02-2016, 14:38

Even under driver movements, it won't bend?

I'm just imagining a lot of teams having problems of lining up without the tape bending, but I guess a better strategy is to slam into the tower all the way up the batter and then extend.

That is what we are trying is the slam in method..we'll see if the build team gets it done today. Biggest issue is getting a small enough detachable hook at the right angle with our scissor lift (not tape) Then balancing on a separate winch mechanism. I think we'll get it done today as priority #1, we felt early on it was best to use the castle as a vertical guide in last 20 seconds with limited vision from far end and defense perhaps being played

dominik.daners

24-02-2016, 19:08

Our robot currently has a tape measure climbing mechanism, but it is quite different (and not as effective) to yours. We use a tape measure to deliver a hook to the top bar, and then a winch and cord to pull the robot up.

My questions are: have you dismantled your tape measure and built a custom system for it, and secondly, it looks like you lift by the tape measure, how do you do that?

Your system works very well, a 15 second climb is impressive!!

Drew4564

24-02-2016, 19:43

My questions are: have you dismantled your tape measure and built a custom system for it, and secondly, it looks like you lift by the tape measure, how do you do that?

Your system works very well, a 15 second climb is impressive!!

Yes, we have dismantled our tape measure. The tape measure was cut into two ten-foot lengths and then attached to and spooled around a 1.625" hex-bore Colson wheel. This spool is housed in a 3D printed case that's just slightly bigger than the tape when spooled around the wheel.

An important detail is the 2" AM Stealth wheel four inches in front of the Colson spool wheel. This wheel forces the tape measure to extend instead of simply unspooling and making a mess inside the printed housing.

To answer your second question, we simply run the system in reverse! Because both the Colson wheel and the AM Stealth wheel are on driven shafts, we just drive both wheels backwards and the system winds back up. We have a servo-driven ratchet and pawl system on one of the arms to hold us in place once we've scaled.

Thanks for the excellent questions and the compliment, we appreciate it! If you'd like better pictures of the system, we're happy to share!

cfig3492

25-02-2016, 15:28

Would love to see pictures of your mechanism.....especially of the drive mechanism!

Drew4564

25-02-2016, 15:29

Would love to see pictures of your mechanism.....especially of the drive mechanism!

I'll see what I can gather for pictures tonight and post them shortly!

Ken5736

25-02-2016, 15:45

Really nice. Love the double tape measure!!
We originally wanted to use a tape measure, but were worried about floppyness and speed.
We ended up going a different route.

dkavanagh

25-02-2016, 16:51

We use a tape measure to deploy a hook but use 2 winches to lift the robot level with some "spear fishing" line. We'll be at the NYC regional on March 11th.

Connor McBride

25-02-2016, 17:08

Awesome job on the climber! Cant wait to see it in action at Pinetree.

Japper

07-03-2016, 01:35

Drew4564

07-03-2016, 12:19

Nice job guys!

There was a team at the Northern Lights that made a nice 3d printed tape measure climber but was not allowed to use it. Not sure why not but I think it was team 4656 Rock Solid.

I would like to know more about this climber and why that team was not allowed to use it because it looked like a really nice climber solution.

Also, I am curious if anyone did any strength tests and how much weight this type of climber would lift.

thanks

Thanks! I'm also curious why the team wasn't allowed to use their tape measure climber. If anyone has any more information, I'd like to know!

I put together a build guide/showcase of sorts for our climber system that features better pictures and some detailed descriptions. Here's a link to it. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/17LDGvKNNPZQJdRTgCgoaJ7E_6nTVh7RTzDaG8Vqa15Q/edit?usp=sharing)

Concerning how much weight a tape measure climber can lift, I think it can vary greatly based on the situation. I've seen numbers ranging from about 125 pounds to upwards of 300 pounds for the tensile strength of a heavy-duty tape measure. I think the real issues arise at the points in the tape measure where things are attached, as holes/cuts can greatly decrease the tensile strength. Also, creases can have a huge impact - we badly creased one of our tapes during prototyping, and it never really worked afterwards. Luckily, my team has had no issues with strength, and the robot has spent a considerable amount of time hanging from the tower :o

Japper

07-03-2016, 14:05

Thanks Drew, You are awesome for sharing!

Now if we can just find out why team 4656 couldn't use theirs...

dominik.daners

08-03-2016, 16:55

Thanks! I'm also curious why the team wasn't allowed to use their tape measure climber. If anyone has any more information, I'd like to know!

I put together a build guide/showcase of sorts for our climber system that features better pictures and some detailed descriptions. Here's a link to it. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/17LDGvKNNPZQJdRTgCgoaJ7E_6nTVh7RTzDaG8Vqa15Q/edit?usp=sharing)

Concerning how much weight a tape measure climber can lift, I think it can vary greatly based on the situation. I've seen numbers ranging from about 125 pounds to upwards of 300 pounds for the tensile strength of a heavy-duty tape measure. I think the real issues arise at the points in the tape measure where things are attached, as holes/cuts can greatly decrease the tensile strength. Also, creases can have a huge impact - we badly creased one of our tapes during prototyping, and it never really worked afterwards. Luckily, my team has had no issues with strength, and the robot has spent a considerable amount of time hanging from the tower :o

Thanks heaps for this, however we may not have time to assemble something like this (shipping to Australia is hard) given we have comp next week. However this will likley become a project for worlds (if we make it) or the off season event later in the year.
Good luck at your comp!

bmammen

15-03-2016, 12:14

[QUOTE=Drew4564;1552810]Thanks! I'm also curious why the team wasn't allowed to use their tape measure climber. If anyone has any more information, I'd like to know!

I put together a build guide/showcase of sorts for our climber system that features better pictures and some detailed descriptions. Here's a link to it. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/17LDGvKNNPZQJdRTgCgoaJ7E_6nTVh7RTzDaG8Vqa15Q/edit?usp=sharing)

Great job! We've been struggling with something similar for a couple of weeks now. You wouldn't happen to have an STL file for the 3D printed housing? That's the most important piece to us at the moment as our tape seems to bunch up while extending.

CJ_Elliott

15-03-2016, 12:16

Kevin Sevcik

15-03-2016, 12:40

Great job! We've been struggling with something similar for a couple of weeks now. You wouldn't happen to have an STL file for the 3D printed housing? That's the most important piece to us at the moment as our tape seems to bunch up while extending.Not having the housing likely isn't your problem. The key to getting one of these lift to work is to pull the tape out with a second wheel, like the black stealth wheel they have. When extending, that wheel is trying to pull the tape out slightly faster or at the same speed as the spool is unspooling it.

57 has hit on a slightly different option, but it might be unique to our setup. We have a green banebots wheel that's pushing directly against the spool. This puts enough pressure on the tape that friction can transfer force from the bottom layer to the top layer and actually push out the top layer. We're still finalizing things, so I don't know exactly how reliable it will be, but that's what we've come up with.

Drew4564

15-03-2016, 13:02

[QUOTE=Drew4564;1552810]Great job! We've been struggling with something similar for a couple of weeks now. You wouldn't happen to have an STL file for the 3D printed housing? That's the most important piece to us at the moment as our tape seems to bunch up while extending.

I do have the files you're looking for! PM me your email and I'll be more than happy to send them to you.

Like Mr. Sevcik said, it's crucial to the design that there is a second wheel actively trying to pull the tape measure out.

On a somewhat related note, if anyone saw our performance at WPI, you likely saw that the tape measure climber gave us more trouble than it was worth. It was more difficult than expected to lower the tapes onto the bar after they were extended, as we repeatedly lowered the arms to far, breaking the tapes backwards. We're going to try to add some type of telescoping support, and will add to the build guide if we hit on any particularly good ideas. Suggestions are also more than welcome!

bmammen

16-03-2016, 08:29

[QUOTE=bmammen;1557583]

I do have the files you're looking for! PM me your email and I'll be more than happy to send them to you.

Like Mr. Sevcik said, it's crucial to the design that there is a second wheel actively trying to pull the tape measure out.

On a somewhat related note, if anyone saw our performance at WPI, you likely saw that the tape measure climber gave us more trouble than it was worth. It was more difficult than expected to lower the tapes onto the bar after they were extended, as we repeatedly lowered the arms to far, breaking the tapes backwards. We're going to try to add some type of telescoping support, and will add to the build guide if we hit on any particularly good ideas. Suggestions are also more than welcome!

Thanks! Sent you a PM

hillale

23-03-2016, 17:13

Team 3617 pulled off a tape measure climber this year as well. Not the best view of the lift in action, but check out the left hand tower starting at 2:05 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTcdz8sOPGI

We nicknamed the lift mechanism "Major Tom" in honor of David Bowie.

Maria S

23-03-2016, 23:35

I worked on a tape measure climber this weekend but it never ended up working the way the way we wanted. Congrats on yours!

cwebb0223

23-03-2016, 23:48

3130 has a tape measure climber as well but I can't seem to upload the video, seems like you will have to wait until Thursday/Friday to see it! (However, it is on the front of our robot unlike many of the other tape measure climbers I see)