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Do the rules for the human player state that they have to use their hands to pass the bolder through the opening? I guess I'm asking if it is ok for them to kick the ball through?
Jacob Bendicksen
24-02-2016, 20:03
I don't think there's a rule against it.
G33 BOULDERS may only be introduced to the FIELD
A. during TELEOP,
B. by a DRIVER or HUMAN PLAYER, and
C. through one of the holes in the HUMAN PLAYER STATION.
Violation: FOUL per BOULDER
Sperkowsky
24-02-2016, 20:06
Do the rules for the human player state that they have to use their hands to pass the bolder through the opening? I guess I'm asking if it is ok for them to kick the ball through?
No rule but it is really hard. I may have tried a couple of times.
No rule but it is really hard. I may have tried a couple of times.
Not sure I'd say that it's really hard. Drop-kick, sure, but a placed kick--particularly if you know your soccer skills--has the potential to hit the low bar pretty hard.
Just so everybody's aware, the GDC did in fact rule kicking to be legal in one of the early Q&As this year.
Multiple people on our team have tried kicking, its quite hard to get the right kick and very inconsistent.
Using hands is much easier imo, just have to make sure it doesnt bounce and starts rolling before it enters the hole.
Just so everybody's aware, the GDC did in fact rule kicking to be legal in one of the early Q&As this year.
Number 574. (https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Question/574/can-a-human-player-kick-a-ball-through-the-openings-in-the-castle-wall)
Multiple people on our team have tried kicking, its quite hard to get the right kick and very inconsistent.
Using hands is much easier imo, just have to make sure it doesnt bounce and starts rolling before it enters the hole.
This is what we have found as well. We have a very experienced HP and he worked on this at the practice event we attended. He was able to become very consistent at getting the boulders to the opposing outerworks with his hands. Kicking was less successful. It didn't go any further, and simetimes it hit the inside of the tunnel and stalled.
I predict we will see a lot of human players doing it for the novelty, but not with good results.
When utilizing the strategy of kicking the boulder through the embrasure, be mindful that you don't run afoul of G12 Item G in regards to the tunnel that is on the human player side of the castle wall. Please don't damage them (or you) by accidentally kicking them instead of just the boulder.
The blue box for G12 sets up an interesting situation as well regarding the boulder itself. It looks like attempting to kick the boulder through the embrasure tunnel and missing causing the boulder to split open on the tunnel edge, or even the kick itself causing damage, would constitute a violation of the rule causing a Card. It specifically says that there is expected reasonable ROBOT caused wear and tear but HUMAN caused wear and tear is subject to a Card.
I guess it is up to the participants whether the risk is worth using the tactic.
Another rule to possibly run afoul of, and this is for either kicking or bowling, is G40-1 regarding a ROBOT holding the Low Bar Flap up allowing a boulder to go directly into the opponent courtyard. This one could be interesting in light of how unintentional possession of a game piece has been ruled in previous years (opponents yoga ball lands in your bot in 2014...you got the foul). What if a ROBOT is just passing under the bar and not stopping, but a boulder just happens to be bowled through and passes into the courtyard completely unintentionally at the same time. Is that a Tech Foul? Has this been asked on the Q&A and I just haven't run across it (I searched for G40-1 with no hits)?
Come on Palmetto feed...I need to stop thinking of this stuff that I might potentially be seeing through my 4 events FTA'ing.
Another rule to possibly run afoul of, and this is for either kicking or bowling, is G40-1 regarding a ROBOT holding the Low Bar Flap up allowing a boulder to go directly into the opponent courtyard. [...] What if a ROBOT is just passing under the bar and not stopping, but a boulder just happens to be bowled through and passes into the courtyard completely unintentionally at the same time. Is that a Tech Foul? Has this been asked on the Q&A and I just haven't run across it (I searched for G40-1 with no hits)?
Q878 would work. (https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Question/878/if-a-robot-in-the-process-of-crossing-the-low-bar-accidentally-flips-the-flap-such-that-it-no-longer-stops-boulders-from-rolling-through-the-low-bar-when-thrown-forcefully-then-drives-through-the-l)
Q878 would work. (https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Question/878/if-a-robot-in-the-process-of-crossing-the-low-bar-accidentally-flips-the-flap-such-that-it-no-longer-stops-boulders-from-rolling-through-the-low-bar-when-thrown-forcefully-then-drives-through-the-l)
The bottom line on these is that you should not count on any tricks which circumvent gameplay as the GDC envisions it as lasting more than a single match, or at the most generous, an event. If you do this, you're shooting the wad.
Q878 would work. (https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Question/878/if-a-robot-in-the-process-of-crossing-the-low-bar-accidentally-flips-the-flap-such-that-it-no-longer-stops-boulders-from-rolling-through-the-low-bar-when-thrown-forcefully-then-drives-through-the-l)
Yeah, that would handle it I think. Annoying that didn't come up in my search but probably the hyphen in the rule screws that up and I didn't just search G40 for some reason.
Daria Wing
26-02-2016, 15:11
Kicking the ball is really hard because it has to be inside its little boxy thing that I am too tired to remember the name for right now. Also, if you get it through it's boxy thing, then it isn't on the ground and might go to weird parts of the field
loonmoon
09-03-2016, 22:00
To place the ball, can HUMAN PLAYERS touch the inside of the box? If you are a skilled soccer player it's pretty easy, otherwise I don't suggest doing it. You can hurt your ankle or damage the box/ball.
Levi Madden
09-03-2016, 22:48
When utilizing the strategy of kicking the boulder through the embrasure, be mindful that you don't run afoul of G12 Item G in regards to the tunnel that is on the human player side of the castle wall. Please don't damage them (or you) by accidentally kicking them instead of just the boulder.
The blue box for G12 sets up an interesting situation as well regarding the boulder itself. It looks like attempting to kick the boulder through the embrasure tunnel and missing causing the boulder to split open on the tunnel edge, or even the kick itself causing damage, would constitute a violation of the rule causing a Card. It specifically says that there is expected reasonable ROBOT caused wear and tear but HUMAN caused wear and tear is subject to a Card.
I guess it is up to the participants whether the risk is worth using the tactic.
Another rule to possibly run afoul of, and this is for either kicking or bowling, is G40-1 regarding a ROBOT holding the Low Bar Flap up allowing a boulder to go directly into the opponent courtyard. This one could be interesting in light of how unintentional possession of a game piece has been ruled in previous years (opponents yoga ball lands in your bot in 2014...you got the foul). What if a ROBOT is just passing under the bar and not stopping, but a boulder just happens to be bowled through and passes into the courtyard completely unintentionally at the same time. Is that a Tech Foul? Has this been asked on the Q&A and I just haven't run across it (I searched for G40-1 with no hits)?
Come on Palmetto feed...I need to stop thinking of this stuff that I might potentially be seeing through my 4 events FTA'ing.
Question 528, holding the bar up so that a boulder can pass through will result in a tech foul. G40-1 has been updated to include this in team update 2.
Does anyone know how some teams are managing to get the balls all the way to the opponents courtyards. E.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j_2s9OF5AI&list=PLGEVWSs4MszgFkssObbOd4Xts47NMjgIG&index=79
watch red alliance human player station.
CJ_Elliott
29-03-2016, 12:47
Does anyone know how some teams are managing to get the balls all the way to the opponents courtyards. E.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j_2s9OF5AI&list=PLGEVWSs4MszgFkssObbOd4Xts47NMjgIG&index=79
watch red alliance human player station.
If you put some slight rotation on the ball similar to bowling... It just depends on the defense in slot 2
If you put some slight rotation on the ball similar to bowling... It just depends on the defense in slot 2
Thanks, but i was also wondering how these human players got so much force behind the balls?
marcusbernstein
29-03-2016, 12:55
I asked the head ref at Long Beach, and he said there was no specific rule against it and that it was fine. I went to a practice match as an alone human player (even though im the driver) and tried kicking the balls. I was able to get the ball under the low bar on the third or fourth try by placing it and then kicking the top of the ball. Depending on the defense in position 2, it might be easier to kick the balls over that defense as well.
Yeah, no rule, I've seen many people do it at competition.
I asked the head ref at Long Beach, and he said there was no specific rule against it and that it was fine. I went to a practice match as an alone human player (even though im the driver) and tried kicking the balls. I was able to get the ball under the low bar on the third or fourth try by placing it and then kicking the top of the ball. Depending on the defense in position 2, it might be easier to kick the balls over that defense as well.
Thanx guys
By the way, something for all of you human players to consider (somewhat off of the original thread topic):
Remember that more than 6 boulders in your castle is a penalty. Some of these alliances can drop in enough boulders in seconds to get you that penalty. Plan carefully and move quickly if you need to, but get those boulders out of there! The refs are watching this (along with the rest of the things they're watching for).
rich2202
29-03-2016, 13:17
Does anyone know how some teams are managing to get the balls all the way to the opponents courtyards. E.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j_2s9OF5AI&list=PLGEVWSs4MszgFkssObbOd4Xts47NMjgIG&index=79
watch red alliance human player station.
Actually, it is the Blue Alliance. Around 30 seconds left, you can see the boulders being rolled very hard with a lot of side spin. It helps that the Ramparts are in Position 5 of the Blue Outer Works. That makes it easy for the boulder to cross. At around 17 seconds left, the boulder crosses the ramparts in Blue's Outer Works, and then crosses over the Rock Wall in position 3 of the Red Outer Works.
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