Battlebots Cancelled!!! [Archive]

David Kelly

23-09-2002, 21:02

AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE FROM BATTLEBOTS INC.

BattleBots Inc. would like to inform the robot building community as to our future plans. Although we are dismayed by the Comedy Central decision not to renew for a Phase 6.0 Taping in November 2002, we are heartened by our promising opportunities and options for the future.

We are presently pursuing options with other television networks. We hope to revamp the format of our show by highlighting the builders as athletic heroes and high-tech role models. We will try to have the next incarnation of BattleBots on TV showcase the "behind the scenes" technologies of the
sport, with far less emphasis on satire and innuendo. We are doing our utmost to make this a reality. Stay tuned for updates.

We are also exploring the prospect of creating a "BattleBots Live USA Tour." This regional tournament circuit could tour up to eight (8) cities in the United States and follow a double elimination format. The regional advancers from this preliminary circuit would move onto a grand finale tournament that would crown the national champions of each weight class. We are very excited about this because it may usher in a brand new live event series for the sport of BattleBots. Stay tuned for more news on this front as well.

Although most of the aforementioned plans are still in the preliminary stages, we wanted you to know that we are working tirelessly to keep the sport flourishing at the highest level. Please remember that we are counting on your continued support and commitment. In the meantime, take care and we look forward to seeing you all again very soon.

Sincerely,

BattleBots Inc

Joe Matt

23-09-2002, 22:18

Mabey this will lead to Universal dropping BBIQ...

BTW, Nickelodan is now running a batle robot program. Can't remember the name though.

E. The Kidd

23-09-2002, 22:35

Originally posted by JosephM
Mabey this will lead to Universal dropping BBIQ...

BTW, Nickelodan is now running a batle robot program. Can't remember the name though.

Its called robot wars...it used to come on TNN (This is worse than battle bots in my eyes. At least in battle bots its pretty much builder vs. builder.)

evulish

23-09-2002, 23:20

The one on Nickelodeon is supposed to be kid-built. They don't look kid-built. I'm assuming it's just the original Robot Wars people that have sons that want to hang around :P Anyways, yes, it is awful.

Everytime I mention robotics it goes like this:

Me: "Yeah...I'm on robotics"
Other: "Ohh...thats cool...how can I join?"
Me: "Go to a meeting on so-and-so night"
Other: "Ohh...what's the robot do?"
Me: "Run around and grab onto stuff" (I say more than that, actually)
Other: "That's boring. I thought you killed stuff. I wanna be a battle bot"
Me: *visciously attacks 'Other'*

Then there are people that would join if they weren't "busy." "Ohh...I don't wanna miss school" I tell them they don't have to...they just kinda look at me then it ends :P

DaBruteForceGuy

24-09-2002, 16:21

Originally posted by evulish
[B]The one on Nickelodeon is supposed to be kid-built. They don't look kid-built.

Yeah i was lookin at that. I think it is the TNN thing with the kids as drivers.
I am startin to hate these robot shows. Not only because "why build something to get it distryed" but it is a diss to all robotic innovation industries around the world. It udermines all that we stand for by giving the public a veiw of robot innovation as a stupid hobbie and destructive investment. It really ruins the efforts to try to get people interested in the feild, including the companies once interested in investing in such a technology.
Besides, it makes us look bad:mad:

Adam Y.

24-09-2002, 21:05

Arrrrg Battlebots isn't cancelled:). It's mearly trying to find a better tv sponser or an non-tv alternative. Robot Wars on Nick doens't have kid built robots it only has kid drivers. Btw it really seems you guys really don't get your facts straight about robots wars, battlebots and the such. Yesterday I found an old post complaining about how people on Robotica got unlimited time to build their bots which isn't even true. Btw robotic combat is as old as first robotics so it isnt' going anywhere soon:). but it is a diss to all robotic innovation industries around the world
I wouldn't say that all battlebots aren't innovative. Besides, it makes us look bad
How does it make you guys look bad?????

MattK

24-09-2002, 22:12

Originally posted by wysiswyg
Arrrrg Battlebots isn't cancelled:). It's mearly trying to find a better tv sponser or an non-tv alternative. Robot Wars on Nick doens't have kid built robots it only has kid drivers. Btw it really seems you guys really don't get your facts straight about robots wars, battlebots and the such. Yesterday I found an old post complaining about how people on Robotica got unlimited time to build their bots which isn't even true. Btw robotic combat is as old as first robotics so it isnt' going anywhere soon:).
I wouldn't say that all battlebots aren't innovative.
How does it make you guys look bad?????

I agree, Its kinda like the difference between Archory to kill a animal and archory in the Olympics.

DaBruteForceGuy

25-09-2002, 16:49

[i]I wouldn't say that all battlebots aren't innovative.
How does it make you guys look bad????? [/B]

I am not saying that the robots aren't innovative, actually they are incredable. I think the robots are awesome in that competition, it is the concepet. if a company sees a bunch of robots beating at each other they see "ooooh look, thats great entertainment" --vs-- (FIRST's objective) A group of technical engineers developing robots to help the elderly, make rescues, explore distant planets, explore ocean crevises, enable a person to walk again... they are gonna say "Wow, now that is a great pursuit in the advancement of human kind" WELL....
Which one would u pick?:D

mrobrien

25-09-2002, 21:11

It seems like everyone in FIRST is completely against battlebots. I built a robot for battlebots before coming to high school and competed, and I can say that I've learned more and had more fun with Bbots then I have with FIRST. I can also say that I have seen much more "gracious professionalism" at the battle bots competition than at a FIRST regional, even though battlebots hasn't come up with any slick terms for sportsmanship. (though you have to take into account the age difference between the average FIRST and average Bbots competitors) And battlebots DOES emphasise learning and technology... Comedy Central, however, does not, and as they have produced the show for the past 5 seasons, the only thing most people see is a mixture of carmen electra, stupid comedians, an announcer who makes bad jokes, and two jocks. Only a small portion of the T.V show (Bbots is a competition, not a show!) is actually dedicated to robots fighting. Now that Bbots is no longer affiliated with Comedy Centeral, hopefully it can find a new network with a different emphasis.

One more thing: People who build something hugely expensive with a reasonable chance of getting it destroyed have to realize that the knowledge and experience gained are the real rewards. Nobody with enough intelligence to do something like this would seriously consider the small potential of getting on T.V. or winning a prize worth it. (or at least nobody has yet) FIRST doesn't have this automatic filtering of nimrods.

rbayer

25-09-2002, 22:11

I, too, am sick of hearing people attack BB. Over the summer, a group of friends and I (mostly me) completely designed a Battle Bot. I can honestly say it was far more educational than the FIRST setup because I did everything. In FIRST, engineers do a lot of work or at least tell us what to do. Through my experience with BB, I can now make technical drawings of every part necessary to build a robot and better understand all the details that go into design. Furthermore, BB is far more accessible financially than FIRST is or ever will be (the entrance fee is only $300 and parts aren't that expensive). Now that BB 6.0 has been cancelled (or at least postponed), I have nothing to do with my 80+ drawings of Aluminum parts.

Even after all that, I still believe FIRST is an excellent program. I won't say its better than BB, nor will I say BB is better than FIRST; they are different programs with different target builders and are not even comparable.

Joe Matt

25-09-2002, 22:38

mrobrien

25-09-2002, 23:09

Fine, but were not talking about you guys. Were talking about the public. They don't see learning or sportsmanship. They see distruction. No matter how much you dress it up with expensive clothes, a pig is still a pig.

You mean Bbots is a pig or the public is a pig? and why would anyone dress a pig in expensive clothes? anyways, the REASON the public doesn't see any learning or sportsmanship, as I said, is because CC turns it into a man show(carmen electra)/stand up comedy(stupid commedian interviews)/make fun of geeks(that's the robot part)/make fun of wrestling(announcer)/whatever they're trying to do(no idea) presentation. CC is no longer with Bbots and hopefully Bbots will find some producer/network that knows what it's doing and puts more emphasis on the good stuff. What's your argument against that?

SlamminSammy

25-09-2002, 23:27

Originally posted by JosephM:
No matter how much you dress it up with expensive clothes, a pig is still a pig.

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which." Animal Farm by George Orwell

The public can always be deceived, such is the nature of secrets and it can work both ways. Perhaps lowering robotics down to the public and slowly bringing them up towards the light does more good than trying to make them follow you blindly to the light which they cannot see.

Also from Animal Farm, ""Part of the reason for the ugliness of adults, in a child's eyes, is that the child is usually looking upwards, and few faces are at their best when seen from below." The public needs to see another side of BB, I agree, but perhaps to do this they need to grow intellectually first and get accustomed to robotics.

And just remember..."...Two and two are four. Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane."

Adam Y.

26-09-2002, 14:05

The public can always be deceived, such is the nature of secrets and it can work both ways. Perhaps lowering robotics down to the public and slowly bringing them up towards the light does more good than trying to make them follow you blindly to the light which they cannot see.
Errrr...... I think I get this. Battlebots is a gateway into first. Well at least that's the way it worked for me.
1. Watch battlebots
2. Researched battlebots
3. Went onto battlebots forum
4. Realized that there has to be an alternative to battlebots
5. Found out about Beam robots but realized I haven't the foggiest idea what I'm doing
7. Found out about Robotics club at school
8. Joined it and discovered first:)
Of course thats not going to work for everyone because I was a geek and actually found any type of robotics interesting.
Fine, but were not talking about you guys. Were talking about the public. They don't see learning or sportsmanship. They see distruction. No matter how much you dress it up with expensive clothes, a pig is still a pig.
Personally I think Comedy Central turned it into pig with massive genetic research. There is plenty of sportmanship in the competition. There has been huge debates about what the rules of sportsmanship within the compeition. First of all I'd like to commend the driver of Wrath Jr. for disloging CC from the spike strip. He took a HUGE chance there but it was well worth it. This was one of those fights that I don't believe would have aired if he had stayed in his square after CC got stuck I believe that shows sportsmanship I think. Helping your opponent back up again.
Hehehe. Read Build Your Own Combat Robot and see how much information there is in that book that is just general information about robotics.

MattK

26-09-2002, 15:10

I would Love To see TECHTV take on the show, or any robot show besides Technogames. I WISH there was FIRST tv show, I REALLY REALLY DO!

Adam Y.

26-09-2002, 15:19

Yeah I agree but the problem is ratings and I'd seriously doubt First would succeed when two of the three competitions have been quasi-flops in them.

DaBruteForceGuy

26-09-2002, 16:36

[/B]What's your argument against that? [/B]

This isn't a debate, we are obviously (like most of the public) totally aware of the PRO's of the competition. All we understand is that there is no aim for battle bots other than to build an awesome mechine than tear it apart on national television.
All we are saying is that it demines our efforts in FIRST to INSPIRE and spread the word to the public about technology and it's promises for the future.
I'm sure that if my goal in my technological pursuits was for definite selfish outcomes, i would love battlebots as well!

mrobrien

26-09-2002, 20:49

This isn't a debate, we are obviously (like most of the public) totally aware of the PRO's of the competition. All we understand is that there is no aim for battle bots other than to build an awesome mechine than tear it apart on national television.

Uhhhh I just kinda said that that isn't the only aim of bbots at all. And it looks to me like we're debating, since we are expressing alternate viewpoints and then arguing about them, which to me is the definition of a debate. but anywhoo, that doesn't matter.

All we are saying is that it demines our efforts in FIRST to INSPIRE and spread the word to the public about technology and it's promises for the future.

HOW? both competitions do the same thing! Heck, battlebots has even started this Battlebots IQ thing for high schools which is the exact same thing as FIRST but with a more interesting and less complicated competition! and even if you don't agree with the above (please explain why), I've got another argument:

The vast majority of people who would be into FIRST are people who want to challenge themselves and learn about robotics/technology and careers in those areas. People who don't want to enter for this reason wouldn't learn nearly as much about FIRST's message or robotics (as my team saw in it's first year). Battle bots attract mainly people who like to watch things get destroyed and scream about it and people who are genuinely interested in learning about.... robotics and technology! I've never seen or heard of Battle Bots turning the latter type off from robotics or preventing people from entering FIRST(as wysiswyg said it can even provide publicity) and as the former type would never be interested in FIRST or understand in it's message in the first(tee hee) place before a major societal change takes place, there's no way we could be turning them away from it or it's message.

You probably have some ARGUMENT which I have overlooked. Please explain it to me in such a way that even someone as idiotic and stubborn as I am would be swayed against my earlier statements. And while you're at it, please respond to the argument that CC was a pig costume and Battlebots is really great after all.

Joe Matt

26-09-2002, 22:06

I never said that BB was the pig did I? NOPE! My inital comparison was easy. You can coversomething up however you want it. This can be both good and bad.

It dosn't really matter if BB teaches better than FIRST, because those out there not interested in building one ARN'T going to notice. The seasoned vets and FIRST know theres more to it. Blame it on CC, blame it on BB. I don't care. It's the fact that BB is teaching the massses in one way or another that robotics can only be violent to be entertaining. Sponsors see it. Kids see it. Principals see it. It HURTS both FIRST and BBIQ.

Chris Nowak

26-09-2002, 23:05

Well, its hard for the public to embrace something that doesn't have the "destroy the other team" mentality b/c its all were ever exposed to in sports and in basically all other forms of competitive entertainment. Take two extremes: The WWF and FIRST Robotics. In one, the objective is to totally and without sympathy destroy the other "team" and boost your own ego. In FIRST, the objective is to have gracious professionalism and the like. I would place battlebots in between these two, but nearer to the FIRST side of things. I think that the BBots program is good because it can appeal to people and allow students to learn some extremely valuable skills. Its kind of...bridging the gap. I'm definitely not saying that its better than FIRST, though!

*sigh*...if only FIRST could overtake athletics in popularity....THAT would rock...

SlamminSammy

26-09-2002, 23:06

Originally posted by JosephM
...BB is teaching the massses in one way or another that robotics can only be violent to be entertaining

Maybe the pupose of FIRST is to prove them wrong....

mrobrien

27-09-2002, 01:32

It HURTS both FIRST and BBIQ.
actually BBIQ is violent... so thinking that entertainment=violence isn't such a bad thing for BBIQ. But that's a 'tangent' type of a going off on. Anywhoo, yes, the general public is generally piggish in general. I think that once we can get people to understand that EDUCATION is the main reason for people to enter these competitions we can clear up the whole 'violence' thing pretty easily. The public has to understand that it's the journey of building and not the final result. I feel continuing Bbots on a network that understands and supports this is the best way to do this. Once john doe understands that hearing a little 'crunch' noise is not the only reason people do this (and how much work 'this' entails) he'll accept robotics competitions as real sports and enjoy them in non destruction derby formats like sumo, soccer, techno games, and FIRST.

rbayer

27-09-2002, 13:19

Saying that FIRST is completely non-violent is somewhat misleading, if you ask me. Sure, no robots are going to have spinning woks of doom, but that doesn't mean FIRST robots are completely peaceful. In fact, this year the key to winning (at least in the finals) was to push around the other bots as much as you could. How is it peaceful to have two 130 lbs machines slamming into each other at full speed just to grab a piece of plywood and PVC?

Also, no matter how much we talk about "gracious professionalism," the truth is many teams out there don't care about it and only want to win. One of the teams we were in a practice round with actually got disabled by the judges for senselessly beating on us in a practice round!

And let's not forget the what you see of BB on TV is not the same as what goes on in the pits. From everything I've heard, there is as much sharing of tools, technical expertise, and parts in BB as there is in FIRST. It's kind of like a football game--on the field, the players try to tear each other limb-from-limb, but after its over, they're just normal people.

Besides, if BB can inspire people to build a robot, even if it is robot of destruction, thus Inpiring them about Science and Technology, isn't that enough? FIRST desperately needs to loose its superiority complex, or the people of BB will start hating us for the same reasons "we" hate them: simply because they are different.

mrobrien

27-09-2002, 20:54

FIRST desperately needs to loose its superiority complex, or the people of BB will start hating us for the same reasons "we" hate them: simply because they are different.
Yea, something I haven't made clear is that my main problem with FIRST's attitude about BB is that one of their main recruitment and advertising lines is "We're SO MUCH BETTER than BB! Listen to this list of false information about why we're infinity times greater! This is how we brainwash new members to hate BB too!" FIRST needs to listen to it's own "gracious professionalism" emphasis and accept that both competitions are wonderful, inspiring things that are essentially working to the same end. And while i'm at it...

I'm sure that if my goal in my technological pursuits was for definite selfish outcomes, i would love battlebots as well! - dabruteforceguy

Wow, did you just say that I, all battlebots contestants, anyone who enjoys/supports what battlebots does, and Battlebots itself are all more selfish than you, or am I interpreting this incorrectly? You who (i think it was you) said you were going to build a miniature battlebot to compete against other miniature battlebots in a miniature arena and asked for help? What is your justification in saying this?

DaBruteForceGuy

27-09-2002, 21:10

Listen, i don't need to quarrel about something that i explicitly expressed my veiws on in my first post. I don't like all the negitive stuff that goes omn between us FIRST people and our comrads the BB people. Like i said, the efforts of FIRST are focused oN INSPIRATION AND RECOGNITION OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY. If the starters of FIRST wanted to make money (like that of BB) than it would be a multimillion dollar ENTERTAINMENT industry and probably would turn out to be a competition like BB.

oh and btw, i have no idea what u are talking about with the miniature things. U must be thinking of someone else.

Adam Y.

27-09-2002, 23:08

If the starters of FIRST wanted to make money (like that of BB) than it would be a multimillion dollar ENTERTAINMENT industry and probably would turn out to be a competition like BB.
All I have to say is ouch you guys have no idea what your talking about. Battlebots was never really making money before it went on tv. It went onto tv to actually help make money because anything that doesn't make real profits will die out. And I quote the letter: .Without this television funding from Comedy Central, BattleBots Inc. simply cannot afford to hold a live competition. First has sponsers right???? Well the closest thing Battlebots can get to a sponsers is a tv station.

mrobrien

28-09-2002, 00:00

So you're saying that organizations that make money cant be interested in inspiring people? Can DEKA be interested in helping those in need with technology and still make money? Can a teacher accept money for their efforts and yet still inspire their students? Can I quote another Bbots press statement?

We are presently pursuing options with other television networks. We hope to revamp the format of our show by highlighting the builders as athletic heroes and high-tech role models. We will try to have the next incarnation of BattleBots on TV showcase the "behind the scenes" technologies of the sport, with far less emphasis on satire and innuendo. We are doing our utmost to make this a reality. Stay tuned for updates. Wow! Battlebots is sounding just like FIRST! In fact, it always has! As I said, CC did blur the issue somewhat. Did you know that Trey Roski (co-founder, CEO) was a robot wars participant and started battlebots up when RW got entangled in evil, only-for-profit coorporate lawsuits? Do you know that he actually has human emotions? Why would he have participated in the crummy old Robot Wars if he was an evil jerk? Have you watched the pay per view show that battlebots did once before CC came along? (available on tape - http://battlebots.com/store/product_detail.asp?PID=BB-023 ) Do you know how much they focused on learning and making role models out of builders? a heck of a lot more than CC does and almost as much as FIRST does (they took time out to show fights - otherwise they did just as much as FIRST does). Battlebots was pretty much forced to go with CC to get funding for their competition. Now they are no longer with CC.

Well anyways, since you don't need to quarrel about this (sounds a lot like a copout! sure you don't need to, but you've been doing it, so I guess you WANT to) I'll stop posting here. When/if Bbots gets a new show on a better network we'll probably be able to tell who's right.

(and yeah, i checked, it was someone else, sorry. Silly me)http://battlebots.com/store/product_detail.asp?PID=BB-023

Joe Matt

28-09-2002, 10:36

Ahh, organizations that collect money can be inspirational, but the the KKK, some might not teach the best*.

It might be my idea of teaching, but last time I payed attention, my book didn't say that everytime we beat someone at a problem, we wack them on the side of the head. And when we come up to the board, we arn't pummled with paper when we get one wrong. It might be my FIRST beliefs and ideas, but I still think BB and BBIQ cannot and will not compet on the same level as FIRST. It is still skewn with the idea that it's made for distruction. It dosn't matter if CC or BB did it. It's a fact. People watch not to the the sportsmanship and compassion in the pits, they watch to see robots hammared, riped, torn, and inhilated.

* I AM NOT SAYING THAT BB IS LIKE THE KKK. It's just an orginazation that collects money and teaches in awful ideas.

mrobrien

28-09-2002, 16:01

yeah, a great deal of people who watch the CC version of BB do it for the destruction, and no matter what network it's on, many of them still will. I think that if that entertaining destruction is mixed in with some inspiring stuff, these people will at least realize how great (the FIRST kind of great) robotics can be. Hopefully many will be inspired to research robotics competitions (for the right reasons), from which both BB and FIRST will profit. More and more of the general public has to be sucked, err, inspired in by the growing competitions, right? Yeah, most people who fail at creating a good product aren't crushed into tiny bits, but their product generally (in a perfect world!) is eliminated. And if people see that the builders are still good friends afterwards, not many people would consider it a hateful preschool-level rivalry like you seem to be saying.