Student or Adult Coach [Archive]

CalTran

09-03-2016, 16:00

I believe the party line goes something like "We utilize a student coach, because we are a student lead, student built team. The mentors are only here to supervise and make sure we don't injure ourselves." As well, it means that one more student gets to be on the drive team, the position most teams consider one of the most coveted.

That being said, I believe that a mentor serving as a coach is more beneficial than a student coach. Having a mentor be the drive coach means that they will generally be more level headed during stressful situations, they are able to retain the subtle nuances of matches from year to year, and the are able to consistently train the next generation. A mentor coach means that they're more likely able to bring their knowledge year in and year out. Most teams have their drive team as a one-and-done affair.

seg9585

09-03-2016, 16:01

On a serious note to answer the question of "why", there are actually several reasons we have an adult coach but a few of the big ones:

When dealing with other teams in your alliance, things can get a little heated sometimes about which team feels their strategy for the round is optimal. I frequently see other teams with overzealous/bossy adult coaches who feel their strategy for the upcoming round is the only way, and the students get intimidated by it (and will frequently "cower" to the other adult coach when they don't have another adult to stand up for them). My goal is to help the alliance make more level-headed decisions regardless of whether the alliance partners have student or adult coaches.

Students have great decision-making abilities and are very smart, but in the end are still kids and can make mistakes (just like an adult could). What the adult has, though, is experience, and with that experience comes knowing their own history of "what has gone wrong" in the past and what to do to mitigate it. The coach is always the second set of eyes for the students to make sure the robot is configured to plan on the field, the joysticks are plugged into the correct ports, etc. There have been so many times the students forgot some of the important field config steps and it cost us rounds, and sometimes an adult with experience is the best person to double-check their work.

I feel the coach should be the best person on the team for the job, regardless of whether it's a student or adult mentor. A team shouldn't "force" itself to choose between picking an adult vs picking a student because of its team history or because "that's the way it should be".

MaGiC_PiKaChU

09-03-2016, 16:10

We always had an adult coach. This year it's me. It has always been a team alumni or a college student. Never a teacher.
Having a student coach is nearly impossible for us, as a french speaking team, since most students have limited english skills.

IronicDeadBird

09-03-2016, 16:20

Sumtimes 1339 lets me be shot caller cuz I'm MLG pro strategy and gamer.
Real talk though I've seen a lot of great student drivers take losing to personally so by being out on the field and being the "shot caller" as long as they drive at 110% then we lose cause the shot caller is bad.

Jay O'Donnell

09-03-2016, 16:27

Whatever makes sense for your team based on the people within it.

cadandcookies

09-03-2016, 16:30

Honest answer for 2667 is we haven't decided yet. It's probably going to be one or the other, though :P

indieFan

09-03-2016, 16:31

That being said, I believe that a mentor serving as a coach is more beneficial than a student coach. Having a mentor be the drive coach means that they will generally be more level headed during stressful situations, they are able to retain the subtle nuances of matches from year to year, and the are able to consistently train the next generation. A mentor coach means that they're more likely able to bring their knowledge year in and year out. Most teams have their drive team as a one-and-done affair.

I completely disagree that a mentor will be more beneficial than a student coach. Team 599 didn't just have a student as the coach, but the student was the person dealing with strategy in the rookie year. He did a much better job than most adults. It was something we continued year after year.

TylerS

09-03-2016, 16:38

Having had first hand experience being on a drive team with a mentor coach and being the coach of a drive team as a student I think I can draw a firm conclusion.

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

If your goal is to win matches (it might not be) then pick the best person for the job. This might be a student, mentor, support animal, whatever. The hard part isn't deciding between a mentor or student it's about identifying the individual on your team who will best fill the role of a coach and how to do that is a whole other discussion.

the_godfaubel

09-03-2016, 16:48

This is what I learned from my drive team experience: having an adult coach really keeps the drivers in check. They are kind of the rock back there to make sure you don't lose your cool. They protect you from saying something really stupid if you are having a bad match. They have also, most likely, been in these situations before whereas student coaches might just not know what to do in a panic situation.

rich2202

09-03-2016, 16:50

BordomBeThyName

09-03-2016, 16:56

I'm the drive team mentor for 2102 this year, but my involvement with the drive team doesn't extend past the cueing line. Sure, having an adult behind the plexi would get us better odds of winning, but so would having an adult build and drive the thing.

That's not the point of FIRST though, is it? I guess this question rolls up into the larger (and very old) discussion of how much involvement mentors should have on a team. We've always come down hard on the "stand back and advise" side of that, but that's just us. If I wanted to see a competition of professionally built robots, I wouldn't be volunteering at a high school program.

Michael Corsetto

09-03-2016, 17:06

Our team has always had a Student Coach. It gets one more student onto the field. The Mentors watch from the Stands, sees what happens, and makes recommendations for the next match. There is not much a Mentor can do in the 2 minutes 30 seconds that a Student can't do. In that time, you are executing the plan. There is not enough time to change it. A student is just as capable of keeping the drivers on track. Too many cooks spoil the broth. You have to let the driver drive. If something wacky happens, they have to learn to deal with it. It is only one match. Better to learn during the Qualification Matches, so they will be ready to react themselves during Eliminations.

I agree that a student could be just as competent of a coach as a mentor. I've met some incredible student coaches, and 1678 had student coaches through 2013.

Regardless of student/mentor coach, there actually is a lot you can do mid-match to ensure the victory. I've made some big calls over the past few years that saved us qual matches, or ensured an playoff victory, etc.

Does that mean you don't need to plan for each match? No, but sometimes things don't go as planned, and being able to make the right calls in these situations can help pull a win out of a bad situation.

Just saying, plans can change in a 2.5 minute match. Being able to change plans quickly when necessary can make or break a match.

Now, carry on with beating the dead horse of mentor/student coaches :)

-Mike

PS. You hear 254 has a student coach now? Crazy times.

IronicDeadBird

09-03-2016, 17:07

I mean if this boils down to what is best for the students then just ask them what they want.

Michael Corsetto

09-03-2016, 17:09

I mean if this boils down to what is best for the students then just ask them what they want.

You must not be a parent...

-Mike

IronicDeadBird

09-03-2016, 17:11

You must not be a parent...

-Mike

No I've done child care since 5th grade I understand the students don't know best argument. But lets run the scenario.

If the students want a mentor give them a mentor everyone wins
If students want a student and you give them a mentor then the students might not be comfortable or as responsive so nobody wins

Tom Bottiglieri

09-03-2016, 17:20

PS. You hear 254 has a student coach now? Crazy times.
Yeah, sabermetrics tells us training up and coming freshman drivers by starting them as coaches gets us 2 more match wins over the lifetime of the team.

BordomBeThyName

09-03-2016, 17:24

Yeah, sabermetrics tells us training up and coming freshman drivers by starting them as coaches gets us 2 more match wins over the lifetime of the team.

Interestingly we've been toying around with the opposite idea. Start a lead driver as a freshman or sophomore and let them drive until Junior year. Once they become a Senior, put them in as a coach to train up the next driver. 254 probably knows better than us, but we'll see where this plan leads us in a few years.

Richard.Varone

09-03-2016, 17:25

We use an adult coach, the primary reason isn't the students being able to handle it or not, it's more because if something goes wrong/unplanned we want the adult to take any/all blame for how a match plays out. We feel this takes some of the pressure off the students and prevents any fingers pointing to them.

Libby K

09-03-2016, 17:40

If your goal is to win matches (it might not be) then pick the best person for the job.

This might be a student, mentor, support animal, whatever. The hard part isn't deciding between a mentor or student it's about identifying the individual on your team who will best fill the role of a coach and how to do that is a whole other discussion.

BRB, giving my dog all my 1923 shirts & freeing up weekends :)

Joking aside, this is pretty much it. Each team is gonna do what's right for them, and as long as the team itself is happy overall with the decision, then it's all gravy. I like to think our kids are happy with me as a coach, but if our student leadership ever approached me with a solution they thought might be better for our goals as a team, I'd be more than willing to give it a shot.

In my experience, a great deal of coaching success comes from striking a balance - between being confident and headstrong enough to make a call regarding the match, and being gracious & accommodating enough to be an agreeable and likeable partner for quals and elims alike.

That is a trait of maturity, which (for the most part) is achievable at any age.

Lij2015

09-03-2016, 17:57

If you have a student qualified enough to do it, the experience is amazing. I've never driven with a mentor drive coach before so I don't know the difference from a drive prospective, but if you're team isn't a regional powerhouse type team I can imagine it would get them taken more seriously with an adult coach.

GeeTwo

09-03-2016, 20:37

Apart from two or three matches our rookie year, we've always had a student coach. If we found ourselves without a single student capable of the role, we would have had an adult there, but it's a bit of team culture that if there is a student who has shown him/herself capable of the job, the job goes to a student. Whenever feasible, the adults are mentors, advisors, and consultants rather than directors of team activities. It may not be best decision in terms of being competitive as a team, but this policy has helped us grow an awesome crop of upperclassmen and alumni. And that's what it's all about: inspiring and developing the next generation of (tech) leaders.

snoman

09-03-2016, 22:18

Let me start by saying I have seen some very bad adult coaches. They try to take over figuratively if not literally. They try make up for shortcomings they have experienced in the past.
That being said a student off of our Drive team asked for an adult mentor to coach.
The reasons they gave were they didn't feel another student would be comfortable correcting them if they did something wrong. Also to mitigate the intimidation Factor of another teams overzealous adult Drive coach

3175leheh

09-03-2016, 22:56

We've always had a student coach, because we've found that our drivers and operators (also students) relate and understand the student coaches better, and they believe that they're on the same level, instead of a teacher-student dynamic.

Chief Hedgehog

09-03-2016, 23:08

What is this program about?

For me it is about creating an environment for students to further their own development. This program is also so advanced (compared to many other HS programs) that the mentor role is crucial.

It took me a few seasons, but I do understand the need for some teams to place an adult in the Drive Coach position. Depending on how the students adapt, it may be best to have an adult in the Coach role. I also understand that some teams have an adult in this role because 'that is how we have always done it'.

Neither is wrong. I have been fortunate to have very mature students that understand the game at a level better than most mentors. I have also always coached my students up to take these leadership roles.

All of that stated, I would not hesitate to put in one of my mentors as the Drive Coach if I felt it was warranted. However, I have not reached that point yet - and that is a kudos to my drive team.

NShep98

09-03-2016, 23:14

I personally am in the "Do what's best for your team" boat. There's a reason this poll is going so evenly.

As far as I am aware, my team has always had a student coach, for reasons I won't bother repeating. Our rule, though, is that the coach is required to have been one of the two drivers in previous years. This year is my first time driving, and the coach is a senior who was the main driver last year. It makes me feel better to have a coach with such direct experience in my role.

EricH

10-03-2016, 00:20

I have heard of one possible solution to the "overzealous other team's coach" problem.

Student coach, Mentor attends strategy meeting with the drive team. Keeps the overzealous coaches in line, at least in theory.

Squillo

10-03-2016, 02:45

Ours is a young adult, team alum, former driver. Why? Because we have a very small team this year, and the students are all very busy building (or in the pits, repairing), programming, scouting, analyzing, and driving. It's just a matter of a shortage of personnel. Two drivers and HP have to be students, a couple of students run scouting, and the rest are mainly builders or programmers. We basically don't have a student to be coach, heck, we don't even have enough drivers this year (we usually have a few backups but this year I think we only have one).

Sperkowsky

10-03-2016, 07:56

We have a student coach who is only a Sophomore but, she is good at it. She knows the rules very well and communicated extremely well. We have never had an adult coach as our team is very student run but, I have nothing against an adult coach.

wazateer1

10-03-2016, 08:57

Our rule, though, is that the coach is required to have been one of the two drivers in previous years.

I have only just this year begun to focus on match/alliance strategy heavily on my team, but never have been a driver before. I would really like to continue to be in strategy next year, but am a junior, and not the driver this year. What do drivers gain from playing the game that a good coach needs?

Our coach is a student, and (as far as I am aware) hardly ever even drives our practice bots. For the record I feel like he is at least as good a leader as any mentor on our team.

NShep98

10-03-2016, 09:18

I have only just this year begun to focus on match/alliance strategy heavily on my team, but never have been a driver before. I would really like to continue to be in strategy next year, but am a junior, and not the driver this year. What do drivers gain from playing the game that a good coach needs?

Our coach is a student, and (as far as I am aware) hardly ever even drives our practice bots. For the record I feel like he is at least as good a leader as any mentor on our team.

The reasoning behind this rule is based on the premise that the coach now knows how a driver thinks, and is better able to be effective that way. On top of that, they have now had experience with the stress that comes with being a part of the drive team.

I will say again, do what is best for your team. This system works for us, but not necessarily for you.

BobbyVanNess

10-03-2016, 09:21

We've been running student coaches since 2011. It works. It just takes some additional effort to ensure that the drive team dynamic is good and strategy is adaptable on the fly. We have a strategy leader/lead drive team mentor position that trains the drive team and mitigates any nonsense in alliance strategy. We also go over the backup plan with the drive coach for every match.

Having a student coach puts a little more weight on the drivers and takes a lot of time and practice to get a student to the point where they can run the drive team effectively. But as long as we can field a competitive student coach, we probably will continue to do so.

BeardyMentor

10-03-2016, 09:27

It depends almost entirely on the human resources available to an individual team. We try and use a student as a drive coach because none of our mentors really want to do the job of the drive coach. There are many reasons to have a mentor be a coach and equally as many to have a student do it. There really is no right answer. Find what works for your team abilities, culture and strategy and do that.

When we select our drive coach, we first look for the ability to be calm and observant. After that we look for the ability to stand up to adult coaches that may not have OUR teams best interests in mind or not on board with a strategy we know works for us and calmly explain why we are not jumping to do what they want us to do. Equally important is the ability to be diplomatic in negotiations with other teams with regards to strategy before, during, and after the match.

If for some reason we cant find these qualities in a student a mentor will step up and fill in until we can get someone. Luckily, we have only ever had one match where a student was not able and a mentor had to fill in.

Citrus Dad

10-03-2016, 13:58

We've made it to Einstein with both a student (2013) and adult (2014, 2015) coach. I used to be strongly for a student coach but now I can see the advantage FOR OTHER TEAMS ON THE ALLIANCE of an adult coach. It helps that we have one of the best adult coaches going, so I can see what's an almost optimal set up. An adult coach first commands more respect from the other teams (and probably it better at recognizing when other teams have better leadership at the moment). And second an adult coach is probably better able to step back and look at the entire alliance. Plus the continual experience allows the adult coach to develop lessons learned.

We give our students substantial drive coach experience in the fall at off season events. We run multiple bots and usually go to 3 events. We also try to give our young mentors that experience as well.

But I don't have a strong opinion on which is preferred. I'd rather see an insightful student coach than an inept adult coach. And student coaching is a great opportunity to develop leadership. I would hope that an adult drive coach might recognize budding leadership skills and step aside when they recognize a great talent.

blaze8902

10-03-2016, 19:44

When dealing with other teams in your alliance, things can get a little heated sometimes about which team feels their strategy for the round is optimal.

The above quote is one of the main reasons I like having an adult coach.

A few years ago a student from my team, who was the scouting/strategy lead, got in to an argument with a much older team's coach about strategy.

Now, my student kept a cool head, but the other team's mentor - who was at least in their 40s - continued to escalate the situation.

Eventually I decided I needed to step in and deescalate, but my attempts at calming the other man down and reaching a compromise only made him more angry. He had the mindset that younger teams should just shut up and obey more experienced teams.
Things got so bad that eventually the other team's coach actually yelled curses at me.

Eventually, though, I managed to clam him down, but I was forced to cave in in terms of strategy.

The thing that really bothered me is the fact that I'm a very young mentor, and I had no identification. As far as he was concerned I could have been a student.

And while I'm glad that I managed to deescalate the situation eventually, let me just say that I'm not as confident that I would have been able to keep cool had a 40 year old man cursed out one of my students.

As a side note, my student was right and the older team single-handedly lost us the match. Afterwards two of the students from the other team came to our pit and apologized to my Scout Lead and myself. I told them they had nothing to apologize for, because it was solely their mentor who acted well outside the bounds of GP, however I did express to them that I thought it was very mature of them to apologize on his behalf.

TL;DR: Got cursed at by a much older mentor during a strategy meeting.

Anyway, that whole story is my way of pointing out that sometimes FRC competitions can be really stressful. While I know most of my students can maintain a level head, it makes me feel more secure knowing that our Lead Mentor is right there by the students in case situations similar to my experience arise.

Koko Ed

11-03-2016, 00:54

We prefer to use a student coach. It gives the kids a sense of ownership.

marshall

11-03-2016, 01:02

Interestingly we've been toying around with the opposite idea. Start a lead driver as a freshman or sophomore and let them drive until Junior year. Once they become a Senior, put them in as a coach to train up the next driver. 254 probably knows better than us, but we'll see where this plan leads us in a few years.

We've been doing the same as you actually. It seems to be working out for us for the moment but we'll see.

Doug G

11-03-2016, 01:46

Whatever makes sense for your team based on the people within it.

'nuff said... move on folks

Chris is me

11-03-2016, 09:38

For all the stories of "I worked with a mentor coach and he was mean / controlling / aggressive"... you don't have a problem with mentor coaches, you have a problem with jerks. I agree teams should never let jerks coach, it's just toxic for an alliance (yet 228 lets me coach... weird!) No matter who the coach is, they should treat alliance partners with respect, listen to them in strategy meetings, and work to pick the best strategy that allows all of the members of the alliance to contribute in a meaningful way.

I really believe that the best drive teams are run by someone who can be a mentor and advisor to the rest of the drive team. They need experience, quick judgment, and a strategic mind in the box, and they need someone the drivers can trust or listen to.

This does not necessarily mean an adult mentor! That common phrase "your second year on the team is your first year as a mentor" applies here. An experienced, older student can be a very effective coach if they have the respect and trust of the rest of the drive team. There's nothing inherently worse about a student being the coach, but they have to be the most qualified person for the job.

More often than not though, I've found that mentors can make great coaches. In all of FRC, it's the partnership between mentors and students that makes the teams special, and that partnership should extend to the drive team. I've been fortunate to develop great partnerships with drive teams both in my time as an off-field strategist and an on-field drive coach, and I would hate to have my team judged unfavorably because of this. Too often adult coaching is seen as taking an opportunity from one student, when it is really giving a greater opportunity for learning and development to the other 3 students.

Yeah, sabermetrics tells us training up and coming freshman drivers by starting them as coaches gets us 2 more match wins over the lifetime of the team.

I know you have a student coach this year, but I honestly can't tell if you're joking with this rationale. If you haven't run student coaches before, how can you have this metric figured out? How do you have a big enough sample size to know this? I suspect part of the reason this works for 254 is because the drivers are so well trained and practiced that the need for a super experienced coach is lessened.

abigailthefox

11-03-2016, 12:38

We had an adult member decide by themselves that they would be our drive coach this year, after numerous years of student coaches. The adult mentor has only coached during a few matches at an offseason event last year (IRI).

I am not sure of the entire history of my team (did we have an adult coach 8-10 years ago? I don't know) but I can speak for the last several years, and we have been one of the more "student-run" focused teams, with student coaches in addition to student leadership.

Personally, I disagree with the choice for an adult mentor to coach this year, and also with the manner in which this decision was made. Last year, we had a student coach, and it was our most successful year (won our division at champs). This may well be correlation not causation, but it doesn't indicate any kind of ongoing problem, or that our current drive set up wasn't working well.

I believe that a student coach helps foster community within the drive team, because students interact with each other differently, and teenagers tend to understand each other better than they understand adults. A drive coach job is all about communication and understanding.

Some people say that adult coaches can be more intimidating when talking strategy, or calmer under pressure, but our drive team actually discusses strategy as a whole with other teams--it is not an exclusive job of the coach. Our two drivers embodied each of them--one driver was the most bad a** person you will ever meet, who exudes confidence and is assertive in conversation, and the other was incredibly calm under pressure, and very logic oriented. Our coach possessed these qualities as well, and they made a great team. They were respectful to adult coaches, but did not defer to them unless the adult coach could prove beyond a doubt that their strategy had merit.

With an adult coach, you lose a chance for a student to gain that valuable experience. This year, our team is way younger, and desperately needs experience. It probably won't be our most successful year, in terms of wins, and I think that means we need to put some focus on what we can do this year to increase the collective experience and FRC knowledge team members have. It's not the year to put an adult in for (the questionable logic of) win maximization.

Furthermore, I am honestly a bit irked by the fact that this decision was made exclusively by the mentor acquiring the position. While he is our lead mentor, he chose to make this decision on his own (team members did not know that this would be our plan this season), and effectively coerced our mechanical lead into agreement. He stated his intentions to her (she is wonderful, but she's also a very soft spoken sophomore who tends to avoid conflict), and there wasn't really any team deliberation or informing before the decision became final.

Our team captain is a student and all of our leads are students, and we pride ourselves on being student run. Do we win everything? No. Are we a super elite team with awesome sponsors? No. Do we learn a lot? Oh yes. Do we have fun? Almost always (build season is still maximum stress season). But this year I fear that our student leadership is fading, and the students themselves becoming little more than figureheads. I have hope for the future, but I'm less confident about it.

Tl;dr: You can do what works for you, but keep the "spirit of FIRST" as well as your own team ideas and goals in mind when choosing.

mentos54

11-03-2016, 13:19

My original team had a mentor coach, as he was an amazing guy at first, could carry knowledge through generations, and was well known enough that other teams would acknowledge his knowledge as a coach. It worked extremely well, and there were very few problems which came up.

My current team uses a student drive coach. She is amazing at her job, we're lucky to have her this year. While historically students have worked well, I have heard of several years where the drive team did not work well with the coach.

I like the idea of student drive coaches. However, they can go badly when the drive team refuses to work with the coach due to a lack of respect for his skills. Also, we had one year several years ago where a drive team lost a match, and the student coach let it be widely known that it was the drivers fault for not listening to him. It causes a lot of bad blood, and is a reason I like mentor coaches.

TL; DR Student coaches are in many ways better, mentor coaches are safer.

philso

11-03-2016, 14:01

There have been many examples of great Student Coaches and great Mentor Coaches. There have also been many examples of terrible Student Coaches and terrible Mentor Coaches. It seems that the only reasonable thing to do is to choose "the best person on the team for the job, regardless of whether it's a student or adult mentor".

It is interesting that fairly large numbers of people responded to the current and past polls (362 and 423) and the results are very close to 50%-50%. Assuming that they all based their choices on their experiences, the individual stories of particularly great or terrible Student or Mentor Coaches can not be the basis for compelling arguments for one or the other. For each story supporting one choice, one can find another story that supports the opposite choice.

I mean if this boils down to what is best for the students then just ask them what they want.

Sometimes, what they WANT is not what the NEED.

Dibit1010

11-03-2016, 15:51

We use a student coach- many times student know each other better, and there can be a less totalitarian attitude about what the drive coach says. Now if anything even starts to go awry off the field a mentor immediately steps in

AJOHNSON

13-03-2016, 15:36

5099 coach here, I'm a student. In my opinion it's very frustrating to work with adult coaches because they tend to dominate the alliance. Remember it's an event for high school students keep them on the drive team.

IronicDeadBird

13-03-2016, 16:15

Sometimes, what they WANT is not what the NEED.

I've never been able to fully tell what a student will need and how to present what they need in the format of something they want, and until I can I'm just more comfortable working with an advising role over a guiding role.
If that makes any sense...
I assume they hear everything I say what they listen to is up to them.

DonRotolo

13-03-2016, 21:51

tl;dr.
:deadhorse:

Anupam Goli

13-03-2016, 22:02

I actually have an interesting story to share with our experience this past weekend.

We usually run a student coach, since the mentors most involved with match strategy are college students, and as such our availability to attend competition can be questionable. However, we find it helpful to have a strategy mentor be there to direct the drive team and coach on how the upcoming matches will flow. Our drive coach was coaching his first official event (not counting off-season events), and was getting his feet wet with the strategy and coordination involved in stronghold. The first few matches were... rough, to say the least. The drive team was frustrated, and wanted our match strategy mentor to coach for a match or two, and have the student coach observe and learn. However, we kept our student coach in, but kept giving feedback on how he can improve his coaching skill and match timing. We reviewed match footage with him and the drivers to fix any bad decision making that was occuring.

By the time eliminations rolled around, our student coach was doing very well and was able to communicate with alliance partners and the human player. His coaching was crucial for our low cycle times and drivers' success.

I stand by the saying that teams need to do what's best for them and their mission, but if you want to run a student coach, consider having a mentor for the drive team and coaching, and look at ways to help your student coach grow and get better.

evanperryg

14-03-2016, 00:25

We have an adult drive coach. He's a former FRC driver himself, with 4 years of experience on a very successful Florida team. He's got a cool head, communicates effectively with other teams, and his experience means he really understands what it's like to be behind the controls. These traits aren't just hard to find in a student, they're hard to find in anybody. If a student is the most qualified to coach, it should be a student coach. If a mentor is the most qualified to coach, it should be the mentor.

aovozza3

14-03-2016, 00:52

I have been fortunate to be a drive coach both as a student team member and now as a mentor. From my experience, whether your drive coach should be a student or mentor depends on the specific dynamics of your team.

For example, if you have a small team and an individual student who has a solid understanding of the game/rules, then a student drive coach may be best for your team. However, if your team is larger and more students are interested in being on the drive team, I feel an adult mentor would be better suited to handle the pressure of both working with other teams and within the drive team.

One thing I make sure to emphasize with my students is that student or adult drive coaches do not have inherent advantages or disadvantages. If a team has a student drive coach, that does not mean they will inherently have weaker strategy abilities. Additionally, an adult drive coach does not automatically mean that students are not involved with their team's design/strategy. Each team has different student dynamics, thus we should maintain respect for other drive teams regardless of the age of their drive coach.

mjc49

14-03-2016, 10:49

Since I've been involved with my team, we have always had a student as drive coach. That said, going forward we will have an adult coach on standby in the event someone to help manage situations with other adults.

Being a drive coach is a leadership position on our team and we provide leadership training. Dealing with an aggressive mentor from another team is asking a lot from a student so having someone available for them to help in that situation is teaching moment. In most cases, adult drive coaches are doing a great job, but there are cases where they are way to intense and intimidate students.

IronicDeadBird

14-03-2016, 12:09

One thing that I don't like about this entire scenario is that a lot of heat is being generated around students or coaches feeling uncomfortable in a situation where we all are supposed to be working together.
If people are on the same team nobody should feel bad for trying to help but a lot of the time thats how I end up feeling when in Q.

beurwonderwall

14-03-2016, 13:01

As a the student drive coach of my drive team, I totally think it depends on the dynamic of your team. For my team, we've always had a student coach, but that doesn't mean we're right-or wrong. This weekend at the St Joseph District in Michigan, I was very impressed by 3620's drive coach. He's a mentor, but he does a very nice job in the role, without being overbearing in strategy sessions.

I think that a student can also become overbearing in situations, so it is extremely dependent on how your team functions.

So, whether your drive coach is a mentor or student, I think it is very important that your coach is polite, strong-willed, and knowledgeable when it comes to the game.

It all really comes down to exemplifying the qualities of FIRST; not how old your coach is.