View Full Version : Driver Station Poles and suction cups
AllenGregoryIV
17-03-2016, 00:14
I've been informed tonight that the Head Referees have been told that suction cups to the glass should be disallowed because of G12. It was discussed on the LRI call a week ago and it was specifically told to be legal by the inspectors.
G12 The following actions are prohibited with regards to interaction with ARENA elements (items A-E exclude any DEFENSE, RUNGS, and BOULDERS)
A. Grabbing
B. Grasping
C. Attaching to (including the use of hook-and-loop tape against the FIELD carpet)
D. Grappling
E. Hanging
F. Becoming entangled
G. Damaging
Violation: FOUL. If the Head REFEREE determines that further damage is likely to occur, offending ROBOT will be DISABLED. Corrective action (such as eliminating sharp edges, removing the damaging MECHANISM, and/or re-Inspection) may be required before the ROBOT will be allowed to compete in subsequent MATCHES.
To me this would also outlaw the driver station Velcro and the Ethernet clip since those would be attaching to the field. I've never thought that G12 effected anything but the robot but if it effects the operator console and possibly the drive team this is a vast detour from how I believe this has been enforced.
We will be developing a new way to mount our camera pole for tomorrow involving the Velcro even though that's also attaching to the field.
To me this would also outlaw the driver station Velcro and the Ethernet clip since those would be attaching to the field. I've never thought that G12 effected anything but the robot but if it effects the operator console and possibly the drive team this is a vast detour from how I believe this has been enforced..
If this is the case, then that's a huge blow to anyone who likes having their operator console in one piece. At Alamo, the Texas style defense involved vigorously smashing the high goal shooter into our alliance driver station. Thanks to our clamp and velcro combination, our operator console stayed on the driver station.
If this rule affects clamping down and/or velcro-ing operator consoles, then everyone is in for a rough season. Tournaments can be won and lost just by having a game controller come unplugged, let alone having the entire operator console come smashing to the ground.
They are obviously not going to make the usage of the driver station velcro illegal.
AllenGregoryIV
17-03-2016, 01:26
They are obviously not going to make the usage of the driver station velcro illegal.
I agree but by applying G12 to the operator console they have opened the door for that interpretation. Clearly they need to update the rules to mean what they intend and not randomly apply other rules to situations they didn't intend when they were written.
If that is the stand they are taking, but also allowing 11'8" poles, that is absolutely asinine. Why would you outlaw the best way of making a 12' pole safe? Wasn't the whole point of not allowing 30' poles to make things more safe? Instead they want to have 12' poles falling on people's heads?
If that is the stand they are taking, but also allowing 11'8" poles, that is absolutely asinine. Why would you outlaw the best way of making a 12' pole safe? Wasn't the whole point of not allowing 30' poles to make things more safe? Instead they want to have 12' poles falling on people's heads?
Agreed.
I understand (and wholeheartedly support) the height limit, but this just makes no sense at all.
AllenGregoryIV
17-03-2016, 03:06
Agreed.
I understand (and wholeheartedly support) the height limit, but this just makes no sense at all.
That was my argument as well but he showed me the transcript of the call and everything to prove that's what they were told. I just don't understand the incosistency.
My other plan for a concrete filled bucket ruled unsafe as well. We are currently planning on a piece of wood the slides under the upper driver station panel (small area at back of driver station shelf) and also attaches with velcro. It wouldn't be able to fall but we are also opening ourselves up to 118 2012 style reasonably asutote observer definitions of attach since its just pushing off two surfaces.
rsegrest
17-03-2016, 12:38
Maybe I am missing something. I thought that I saw in one of the pics of camera poles that at least one team used the holder intended for the team banner (will look for pic). Is that now illegal as well?
Found pic
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20360&d=1458056176
It looks like this has been posted to the Q&A. So this should get settled shortly.
https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Question/948/are-teams-allowed-to-suction-cup-to-the-driver-station-glass-we-have-been-informed-that-this-is-a-g12-violation-but-so-would-be-attaching-to-the-driver-station-velcro-and-the-ethernet-clip-also-a-dr
Maybe I am missing something. I thought that I saw in one of the pics of camera poles that at least one team used the holder intended for the team banner (will look for pic). Is that now illegal as well?
Found pic
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20360&d=1458056176
That's a probable violation of a number of team standard rules/guidelines. Height and electronics are the key ones. Unless you're the "GoPros", it doesn't represent your team.
AllenGregoryIV
17-03-2016, 23:10
The q&a won't be answered this week so all teams compempeting week 3 are out of luck on getting clarification.
fresh_prince
17-03-2016, 23:30
G12 The following actions are prohibited with regards to interaction with ARENA elements (items A-E exclude any DEFENSE, RUNGS, and BOULDERS)
A. Grabbing
B. Grasping
C. Attaching to (including the use of hook-and-loop tape against the FIELD carpet)
D. Grappling
E. Hanging
F. Becoming entangled
G. Damaging
Violation: FOUL. If the Head REFEREE determines that further damage is likely to occur, offending ROBOT will be DISABLED. Corrective action (such as eliminating sharp edges, removing the damaging MECHANISM, and/or re-Inspection) may be required before the ROBOT will be allowed to compete in subsequent MATCHES.
Because G12 doesn't specify an actor, does this mean that the field reset crew isn't allowed to hold any of the field elements either, or raise and lower the gates?
Alan Anderson
18-03-2016, 00:09
Because G12 doesn't specify an actor, does this mean that the field reset crew isn't allowed to hold any of the field elements either, or raise and lower the gates?
During a match? You bet they're not allowed to.
rsegrest
18-03-2016, 08:58
That's a probable violation of a number of team standard rules/guidelines. Height and electronics are the key ones. Unless you're the "GoPros", it doesn't represent your team.
Well doggone it. That was going to be our solution to the no suction cups etc. issue...time to back up and develop a new plan.
It's been answered.
https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Question/948/are-teams-allowed-to-suction-cup-to-the-driver-station-glass-we-have-been-informed-that-this-is-a-g12-violation-but-so-would-be-attaching-to-the-driver-station-velcro-and-the-ethernet-clip-also-a-dr
Using a suction cup to attach to the driver station glass is now illegal.
It's been answered.
https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Question/948/are-teams-allowed-to-suction-cup-to-the-driver-station-glass-we-have-been-informed-that-this-is-a-g12-violation-but-so-would-be-attaching-to-the-driver-station-velcro-and-the-ethernet-clip-also-a-dr
Using a suction cup to attach to the driver station glass is now illegal.
This also rules out c-clamp driver stations, doesn't it?
AllenGregoryIV
22-03-2016, 14:39
This also rules out c-clamp driver stations, doesn't it?
Yes, and it rules out any drive team member grabbing the shelf.
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