Windows versus Mac

[LDiDomenico]

I am currently working on a project for my public speaking class where we are required to give a speech persuading our audience to do something. My topic is using a Windows PC over a Mac computer.

I am curious as to what type of computer people in the CD community prefer to use and a reason as to why you prefer it over the other options. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

PS. Also, Linux users, feel free to share your opinions as well.

[inorbert]

Windows-CAD capability, similar/better performance, cheaper

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

[MrForbes]

it's not easy to get folks to convert from one religion to another...usually, when you try, all you do is make enemies.

[rich2202]

Windows:

Open Architecture - many vendors make many things for the PC
DOS - sometimes you just need to get down to a low level to do something
Cheaper
Software

Mac:

For the things that work, they work more seamlessly (one benefit of closed architecture).



I like to build my computer with the components I want. Can't do that with a MAC.

I am biased because I started with PC's before there were MAC's. I never felt the need to learn MAC. If iPad's are any indication of the benefits of the MAC, I will stick with a PC.

There are some awesome things you can do with MAC's (video/photo/audio editing software), but the PC programs are close enough.

[LDiDomenico]

it's not easy to get folks to convert from one religion to another...usually, when you try, all you do is make enemies.

My class is pretty casual so I don't think anyone care too much but I do see where you are coming from. It's just a fun topic for me to talk about and hopefully I can give my class the most useful and unbiased information about it.

[Sperkowsky]

I personally dual boot Windows 10 and Ubuntu. I also have a secondary laptop with osx on it that I have not touched in a while. My main pc is clean windows 10.

All 3 os's have their pros and cons

Biggest pros IMO
Linux - price, and robustness.
Windows - easiest to use, supports the widest array of applications, and is extremely feature filled.
OSX - looks, boot times, robust, and virus free ofc. JK

Biggest cons IMO
Linux - hard to use
Windows - the most unstable (Although still very stable)
OSX - Hard to use, and is limited in application choice.

[hrench]

I think you'll find considerably more engineering-types in Windows computers. Artists and people that are status conscious are more likely to have Apple.

Possibly because of CAD, but not certain.

Windows boxes are just less expensive and they outnumber OS-X boxes like [/URL]nine-to-one.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Desktop_and_lapto p_computers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Desktop_and_lapto p_computers)

[frasnow]

You forgot all of the above. Windows, OSX, and Linux are all great and each have their purpose. Most importantly all of them have web browsers, so I can easily get to the manual.

[theawesome1730]

I prefer Macs to PCs but neither platform is perfect and both have huge shortcomings.

Pros of Macs

Smaller learning curve
More thought was put into creating the hardware
Speed of the OS even on lesser hardware
Trackpads on MacBooks
Support and Customer service
Battery life (although PCs have made massive leaps in the past couple years)
Flexibility, you can run Windows on a Mac but not the other way around without significant work
The screen resolution of the MacBook, MacBook Pro and iMac 5k
Lifespan: I've got a MacBook Pro from 2010 that still runs like new and have had to replace 2 PCs in the same time span (maybe I'm unlucky with PCs)


Cons of Macs

More expensive (although this is somewhat debatable with the quality Apple builds its machines with)
Lacking severely in industrial applications, no CAD so to speak
Lacking in games, but a growing number of new titles are available
No hardware upgrades, unfortunately more and more PC makers are heading that way :(
The developing environment for iOS is Xcode, a Mac exclusive IDE.

[GreyingJay]

So, as a longtime Mac user, I'm twitching a little bit reading the above posts. A lot of what I feel is misinformation. However, I'm "not gonna go there" as I don't want to start a flame war :ahh:

Truth is I use all three. I like to be as platform agnostic as possible, and I would argue that rather than debate the merits of switching to any one over the other, the argument that everyone should learn how to use any one of them is probably the more practical. The longer we stay in one camp and blind to the other the worse off everyone is. For example, I still hear a lot of people argue that Macs don't have viruses and Windows users have to constantly deal with BSODs. Neither are true anymore.

Windows is great because, well, everyone uses it. For more proprietary software (like RoboRio imaging tools, FRC Driver Station) you pretty much need to be running Windows. (An unofficial cross platform FRC Driver Station does exist, that runs on Linux and Mac, but I don't know that I'd trust it in a competition environment.) You can easily run Windows in a VM environment on Linux or Macs. Windows PC costs can be ridiculously low thanks to Microsoft's marketing efforts and the mass market/commoditization of PC's, though if you spec a really nice PC the cost goes up dramatically. If you like touch screens, and gaming, Windows is your only real choice.

Mac OS X is great because it's basically Unix under the hood with a really nice UI. Want a command line? You've got one. Java? Python? Bash scripts? ssh? You've already got it, and you can be running Microsoft Office and Photoshop in another window. Super stable, the hardware is well built and looks sleek, but it is definitely on the pricey side. (If you spec an equivalent Windows PC, it's actually a wash, but the point is that cheaper options DO exist for PCs and not for Macs.) Apple works VERY hard on the user interface and wants to hide the complexities from you to make it easy to use. The end result of this is that often "it just works" and when it does the experience is almost magical, but if it doesn't work, expect to delve into Unix-land to debug it. And you can always run Windows from your Mac, either in a VM or dual boot.

Linux (I like Ubuntu) is getting better and better all the time. Personally I have little reason to run Linux at home since I can do most of what I want from my Mac, but I know people who run Linux full time as their primary OS. They work around not having Office, Photoshop, etc. by using open source alternatives. Maybe not the best for professional environment (you won't see many professional video editors or graphic designers running Linux desktops). On the other hand, everyone in server-land knows Linux. Learn how to work in the Linux command line and you will know how to operate "under the hood" of many devices, including servers, web hosts, Macs, RoboRios, Raspberry Pi's, and so much more.

[Billfred]

it's not easy to get folks to convert from one religion to another...usually, when you try, all you do is make enemies.

2815 had a "no holy wars" policy when I was on it, because after the first couple times we realized we could just derail a meeting with Mac/Linux or iOS/Android discussion.

There are some days where I reach maximum productivity on my iPhone, believe it or not--the tasks just get done faster that way. My daily driver is my MacBook Pro, which is 2.5 years old and still chugging along like a champ. I keep a cheap Windows 10 laptop around for when that's a necessity (either a light-duty Windows-only app that just has to run, or when we had two FLL teams that both needed to program). They're all tools.

[techhelpbb]

Linux - I run this all the time both personally and professionally.
In addition to Linux I run FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
Driver support can lag behind the Windows community.
Linux is more like DOS, except it is now built to be an enterprise *nix style OS.
BSD came before Linux and with that maturity comes generally greater stability and in the case of OpenBSD security (it is one of the most secured OS out-of-the-box in part because it by default doesn't install much beyond the shell).
If you use your graphical interface and shell at least privilege you are much less likely to get malware.
As a Linux user, you are much more likely to know what 'least privilege' is!
I am a developer in the Linux and greater *nix community.

Mac OSX - I have multiple Apple systems going back to the Apple IIe through the original Mac and into the current Intel based systems.
OSX has an origin in NeXTStep (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXTSTEP) and the current versions are Mach kernels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_(kernel)) with BSD style user space.
Given my background using FreeBSD in an ISP environment professionally it makes perfect sense I am fine using Mac OSX.
Given the drivers in Apple's bootcamp I even have an Intel based Apple that only has Windows on it with the bootcamp drivers.
I have sold plenty of Apple computers with OSX to people both for home use and business use: thanks to VMWare Fusion, Parallels and boot camp there are not all that many cases where this is a real problem with the exceptions being some CAD/CAM software, some specialized USB/PCI development work and video games.
It is more difficult, though hardly impossible, to install malware on Mac OSX: usually it's done via Adobe Flash or Oracle Java.
I am an Apple OSX/iOS developer with recognition going all the way back to the 68k.

Windows - The good old standby.
Still trying to be POSIX compliant.
Still reinventing the Berkeley sockets.
Still working on threading.
Finally worked out their task scheduler (at the kernel level) and most of the problems could have been found by watching lectures from Sun a decade earlier.
The asynchronous I/O model (http://tinyclouds.org/iocp-links.html) of Linux and Windows are different (which matters if you are writing anything large serving a lot of users at the same time).
Until recently: Microsoft all but made malware their user's problem.
The UAC (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/what-is-user-account-control#1TC=windows-7) basically is a cop out to get users to own things they don't understand.

Everyone uses it, and if they didn't get forced to download Windows 10 (http://betanews.com/2016/02/02/microsoft-forcing-windows-10-onto-people-is-wrong/), the computer users of the world will continue to use it till Windows XP is finally off all the ATMs in the world.

Mind you: the issue I have with Windows is not text interface versus graphical interface (there are now installations of Windows Server that have no graphical interface at all). That's a red herring argument.
The issue is stability, security and cost.
Apple's Mac OSX proved that if *nix style OS were supported with a working graphical interface they could thrive.
The fact that DOS was *SO* expensive was more to do with price fixing that the quantity of work going into it.

I am also a Microsoft developer and a member of MSDN.
Little bits of Windows can be traced back to me.
I am never a harsher critic than to things I contribute to: because I then know where the garbage is.

Note: *nix means things that are like Unix. That covers *WAY* more than BSD/Linux. Including IRIX and Solaris.

[Mr.Robby]

Personally as an educator and the Technology Coordinator for our school district. I prefer the Mac in a school environment and as a working platform. As nice as it operates, integrates with software, and the ease of use/setup - makes integration nice. There also are some software options I can use to emulate and operate windows programs (For example FRC labview and Driverstations).

There are a few difficulties with the mac however that don't perform well overall, such as CAD CAM Software, FRC Driver station officially for use (at regionals), and a few other "PC" only softwares.

Overall, Mac for Working, PC for fun.

[MrForbes]

My main issue with the Mac OS is that the EULA says I can't put it on whatever hardware I want to put it on. And I'm not gonna buy Apple's hardware.

[Toatekua]

I might be biased because I'm a volunteer for Google but I like ChromeOS for business team and basic web-based stuff. Some may say it's stupid but I've grown to love it.

Chromebooks are typically cheap too. You can also put linux on the higher end ones to have it work for other things too.

[techhelpbb]

You can also put linux on the higher end ones to have it work for other things too.

ChromeOS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_OS)


Chrome OS is an operating system designed by Google and based upon the Linux kernel.


Everyone has their own distribution.

[Toatekua]

ChromeOS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_OS)



Everyone has their own distribution.

There is hardly any linux left in ChromeOS, to be honest. Enough to get people thinking that you can play Steam games and Minecraft on them though, so much that both were added to the FAQ.

[techhelpbb]

There is hardly any linux left in ChromeOS, to be honest. Enough to get people thinking that you can play Steam games and Minecraft on them though, so much that both were added to the FAQ.

History of ChromeOS (http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-secret-origins-of-googles-chrome-os/)

It just takes a little of the Linux kernel for it to be a distribution and bring with it all the licensing headaches that come in the bundle.

Just like Ubuntu is a fork of Debian Linux.
Just because Ubuntu gets regular updates doesn't mean Debian Linux is going to backport.

So, on the topic, if you are a Linux user you get to constantly play the: 'my distribution is better than your distribution game'.
Go to any user group...bang on a table...and insist Ubuntu is the best Linux if you like starting a technical brawl.
You'll learn a lot about Linux if you can keep up and duck when things get thrown :).

Odds are things will get thrown when they take exception (yes this is pun), if not D20 dice, then drinks and sometimes people.
Don't know what D20 dice are: if you don't duck you'll find out :).

[Boltman]

Windows 10/Windows Server 2016/Azure

Can't trust Apple to patch MACs (see XARA) Apple has no bug bounty program either. Overpriced as well.

Linux is good for stand alone systems and devices plus Web servers

[techhelpbb]

Can't trust Apple to patch MACs (see XARA) Apple has no bug bounty program either. Overpriced as well.


I think it's interesting you think Microsoft's track record is better for patches than Apples.
Considering the proliferation of known threats in the Windows ecosystem.

In theory Linux could be the worst considering situations where a whole package has to be removed before you can actually install something with support that is active. That's really RedHat's niche. Owning parts of RHEL that the package maintainers might not care to fix themselves.

Linux is good for stand alone systems and devices plus Web servers

Which was why Azure made a deal with RedHat.
(https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/documentation/articles/virtual-machines-linux-endorsed-distros/)

The last 2 companies I worked for were 80% Windows hoping to be 50% Linux (50,000+ units in the data centers).
The costs are high and in Clouds: Windows doesn't like being shutdown without warning.
Microsoft has gotten better about this, and in fairness Linux is not perfect either, but still Linux is better at recovering from this.

[Boltman]

I think it's interesting you think Microsoft's track record is better for patches than Apples.
Considering the proliferation of known threats in the Windows ecosystem.

In theory Linux could be the worst considering situations where a whole package has to be removed before you can actually install something with support that is active. That's really RedHat's niche. Owning parts of RHEL that the package maintainers might not care to fix themselves.



Which was why Azure made a deal with RedHat.
(https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/documentation/articles/virtual-machines-linux-endorsed-distros/)


The last 2 companies I worked for were 80% Windows hoping to be 50% Linux (50,000+ units in the data centers).
The costs are high and in Clouds: Windows doesn't like being shutdown without warning.
Microsoft has gotten better about this, and in fairness Linux is not perfect either, but still Linux is better at recovering from this.


Every system was hacked at Pwn2Own 2016 this year including Windows . Windows 10 is pretty anti-hacker though with UAC and MIC Windows since Vista has been a fairly tough target. Windows Phone has received top billing at toughest mobile OS to hack and all nine FIPS certs. Microsoft for years had a hacking target on their back, they hardened the OS dramatically.

The hacks you read about today are all mobile for the most part IOS and Android.

[Toatekua]

Every system was hacked at Pwn2Own 2016 this year including Windows . Windows 10 is pretty anti-hacker though with UAC and MIC Windows since Vista has been a fairly tough target. Windows Phone has received top billing at toughest mobile OS to hack and all nine FIPS certs. Microsoft for years had a hacking target on their back, they hardened the OS dramatically.

The hacks you read about today are all mobile for the most part IOS and Android.

And ChromeOS is "unhackable".

Four years and the reward that Google has is still there.

[techhelpbb]

Every system was hacked at Pwn2Own 2016 this year including Windows . Windows 10 is pretty anti-hacker though with UAC and MIC Windows since Vista has been a fairly tough target. Windows Phone has received top billing at toughest mobile OS to hack and all nine FIPS certs. Microsoft for years had a hacking target on their back, they hardened the OS dramatically.

The hacks you read about today are all mobile for the most part IOS and Android.

FreeBSD always had a bullseye because for a decade real ISP infrastructure targets used it.
Windows has gotten much better but still the UAC does not help uninformed users.
The UAC does also not encourage least privilege.
Discounting the plethora of hacks created by common applications in the Windows ecosystem makes it easier for Microsoft to claim victories for security while blaming users for using it.
And ChromeOS is "unhackable".

Four years and the reward that Google has is still there.

Why hack ChromeOS when you can hack Google's backend with the real targets of value?
A breach in Google Docs would wipe out some law firms I know.

[themccannman]

Apple and Linux OSes are much more convenient for people who do a lot of programming, but I personally use windows because so many of the applications I use are designed for, or only run, on windows.

[bombodail]

I use Gentoo Linux, and don't trust Apple or Microsoft with direct access to my hardware. In competition this year, our driver station was running Gentoo, with a heavily locked down windows vm. As far as I can tell so far nothing outperforms Gentoo. On my desktop at home, I use GPU pass through when needed to use Windows for GPU accelerated tasks such as CAD/CAM, and games. This way, it ensures that Windows does not directly touch the rest of my network, or any hardware except the ram, CPU cores, and GPU that I have allocated to the VM.

[techhelpbb]

In competition this year, our driver station was running Gentoo, with a heavily locked down windows vm...
This way, it ensures that Windows does not directly touch the rest of my network, or any hardware except the ram, CPU cores, and GPU that I have allocated to the VM.

How would Windows in the VM use TCP/IP over your network without touching your network? Does your VM have EoIP or VPN tunneling?

If you put Windows in a VM it can still broadcast and can still use IPV6. Unless, of course, you disconnect the virtual network but then you have no network so you have issues using it as a dashboard over the network.

[bombodail]

How would Windows in the VM use TCP/IP over your network without touching your network? Does your VM have EoIP or VPN tunneling?

If you put Windows in a VM it can still broadcast and can still use IPV6. Unless, of course, you disconnect the virtual network but then you have no network so you have issues using it as a dashboard over the network.



The driver station computer does not disable windows networking. On my desktop at home, I have passed a nic directly to the windows vm, and that goes directly to a dedicated port on my firewall, which has it on it's own network.

[teslalab2]

when I was little I used to love linux, and then I grew up and I'm an adult now who needs too use my computer in industry, for which linux is worthless......

[GreyingJay]

when I was little I used to love linux, and then I grew up and I'm an adult now who needs too use my computer in industry, of which linux is worthless......

:ahh:
not taking the bait
not taking the bait
not taking the bait

[Ether]

when I was little I used to love linux, and then I grew up and I'm an adult now who needs too use my computer in industry, of which linux is worthless......

Did you mean to say "for which" ?

[teslalab2]

thanks ether, I didn't haz all the grammers, I had none of all the grammerz, I couldn't think of the correct words to use...

[techhelpbb]

when I was little I used to love linux, and then I grew up and I'm an adult now who needs too use my computer in industry, for which linux is worthless......

Yeah I miss VBA in Microsoft Office when I am running Linux as well.

Then I remember Python.

[pmangels17]

I'd like to provide a bit of insight from the perspective of an engineering student.

I have an older (~5 years) MacBook Pro running OSX 10.8, which I love, and it is great for bringing to class, because it is portable, and the trackpad is unrivalled in quality. I use it mainly for web browsing and MS Office work, but it can even handle Matlab, though not once things start getting really crazy. It is my day-to-day machine, and it serves that purpose fantastically.

However, it simply cannot handle everything I throw at it. Which is why I am shifting towards my Lenovo Y510p (which I also love) running Windows 8.1. My Mac struggles with heavier programs, and doesn't support some of the software that I need for class and for my upcoming internship. My Lenovo, on the other hand, plows through software like SolidWorks and MasterCAM, though in my case, this comes at the expense of portability, though you can get lighter machines that will still run the programs you need.

If you are a prospective engineering student, and you are looking to buy a computer for college, I wholeheartedly urge you to purchase a capable Windows machine, or overpay for a MacBook Pro Retina (the better specs cost $$$) and dual-boot Windows. If you go into engineering, in my opinion, Windows is the easiest and best way to make sure you can do anything you need to do.

[Landonh12]

Honestly it comes down to personal preference. On the software side, if you want an OS that is used by the masses and has the biggest repository of programs to use, then Windows is your best bet. Windows is good for the end-user. It has a relatively easy filesystem to use, has excellent gaming performance, can be used with any hardware (including Macs!), and you can do CAD work on it.

If you want an OS that is nice, clean, easy to use and simple, and has the meat of UNIX under it, then go with OS X. OS X is the best mix of Linux and Windows that anyone has to offer. *.app's are easy to install and use, it has a great development platform in Xcode, uses Objective-C and Swift, and all-in-all is a productive OS for people that need to get work done.

Linux is for the hackers out there. You can do anything with Linux. Build your own OS? Sure! Use a terminal that has all the commands you would ever need? Yea, it has it. Linux is for the more advanced user.


--


Now for hardware. A PC is going to give you mixed results based on how much you want to pay. You can get a crappy little netbook for next to nothing or you can get a gaming laptop that even has a mechanical keyboard built into it. Not to mention building your own PC and upgrading it piece by piece over the years.

Macs are very solid machines when it comes to hardware. I got my Macbook Pro mainly because of the support, build quality, and the relatively good specs for what I do. When I first got it, it was a graduation present. I had a job making an app for a small tech firm, and I needed Xcode for iOS development. I easily made back the money I spent on it just because I got that job that required a Mac.

Apple's support system is unmatched. I drove an hour to New Orleans to get my Mac serviced, as it had problems booting. At the Apple Store, it was an easy process. They diagnosed my Mac, said they had never seen the problem before, and took it in for a fix. They shipped it to Tennessee, replaced the entire motherboard (that includes the CPU, RAM, and SSD!) free of charge, and shipped it back to me within 3 days. I almost didn't notice it was ever gone.

Windows PC's have stepped up their game lately with build quality though - if you look at PC's such as the Dell XPS and the Surface Book (ooo that Surface Book is nice. Feels like a Mac, but with a Microsoft twist).

All in all, it's personal preference, and I prefer my Macbook Pro with OS X and Windows 10 on it.

[TheMilkman01]

For our programming we use PCs and for our video editing and other media, we have a Mac laptop. If teams have sufficient funds to do so and a passionate student body in regards to team media, I highly recommend this. Since Macs have an easier learning curve and you can get iMovie for a few bucks, it's quite a good investment in my opinion. You can get refurbished Macs for a pretty decent deal online and if the students are serious about pursuing media, especially video editing, purchasing a Mac laptop online is close to the best start you can get.

[DinerKid]

I use a Macbook Pro 15" as my daily driver. As a college student it is great for much of what I need in classes, typing documents, reading assignment and web browsing. The trackpad is great, battery rocks, and it does the basic things without any fuss. Additionally the Apple store 10 minutes down the street handles any issues should they ever come up (just because engineering students likely CAN fix their own computers, doesn't mean it isn't advantageous to be able to hand it over and not stress about it sometimes). Fully loaded it handles pretty much everything I throw at it, no problem. As an iPhone user it also comes along with the benefit of having my text messages sync up, photos sync, all that jazz, built in with no fuss.

I dual boot the Mac with Windows 10 and use parallels to have a VM of the windows partition. This is mainly for CAD but also serves to grant me access to a handful of other window sonly programs. The VM is nice for "I just need to swing into SolidWorks and grab a few screenshots" while booting into Windows is nice for "I'm going to sit down and do some CAD for 3 hours and want the performance"

All in all I am pretty happy with it as a daily. That being said I also use a dedicated CAD desktop running windows for when I really mean business :) I have found that a machine running windows that is used just for CAD and a web browser is pretty nice, many of the cons I would come up with for windows don't occur until it has been bogged down with a million things (antivirus that gives you a pop up daily telling you things are going great, a million programs requesting updates.....)

For me Mac OS is nice because it is just seamless, no annoying messages, most things happen automatically rather than requiring permission and popping up windows with alerts, the basic things work well and work out of sight and for me that is worth something. As a college student who doesn't want my computer to be something I have to think about, a mac has served me well.

I always find the Mac/Windows or iPhone/Android arguments interesting. To me neither one is BETTER, each just serves a different user. My mother loves her iPhone because when she needs help with it her friends have iPhones and can help her. My roommate likes to fiddle with every setting possible, write apps, and play around with every single feature of his phone he can, and he loves his android.

~DK

[teslalab2]

Solidworks, Mach3 CNC,.NET, I mean you got your open source knock offs in linux, but lets be honest with out selfs, productivity wise, they suck. You don't have time too make excuses, it just needs too work. That is why no one in industry uses linux.

[Jaci]

JAPPP - "Just another personal preference post"

Let's look a little deeper.

Windows - Strong when it comes to user interface, compatibility and (arguably) productivity. If you're doing CAD or anything like that, this is the obvious choice. However, it's deviation from UNIX and not being POSIX compliant makes it the worst choice for developers.

BUT WAIT - The Linux subsystem for Windows
From what we've seen on the official linux subsystem for windows (and what I've personally demo'd as a windows insider), this could be a huge thing. Bringing the ubuntu userspace to windows would mean you get the best of both worlds -> being POSIX compliant with a PROPER shell, and having existing compatibility with tools from Autodesk, Solidworks and Adobe. Call it personal preference, but once the Linux subsystem is released and stable, I'm finding linux to be a hard choice when it comes to a daily driver computer. That being said, Linux always has a special place in my heart.

Mac OS X - Strong in the UI department. Considering Mac OS X runs atop UNIX and IS POSIX compliant, it's a nice bridge between having a good interface and being a powerful development tool.

The greatest downside is compatibility though: Mac won't run on any hardware you throw at it, and many existing tools available on windows (such as almost anything by Autodesk or Solidworks) won't be compatible.

Personally, I like using OS X on my portable laptop. It's got a nice UI, lets me develop as I move around and the most important thing: doesn't break. If I'm going to use a portable computer, I don't have the time to sit down and fix it. The hardware and software are all made by the same people, and in my 2.5 years of (fairly heavily) using it, I'm yet to have my macbook crash. It JustWerks^TM

Linux - Developer's dream. Linux is great. It's open source, it's efficient, and it has first-class support for software development. But as with everything in life, it has it's downsides.

Compatibility: Linux is often neglected by software vendors. While you can get Open-Source alternatives, for things like CAD and Design, they often don't even come close to comparing with their Mac or Windows counterparts.

User Interface: Linux is nice to use, if you know how to use it. Now, this next part is EXTREMELY my opinion: Linux is nice, until you put a GUI on it. To me, a GUI on Linux is like a desktop computer in a starbucks, it just doesn't fit in the context of its environment. This is why I'm a big fan of the Linux subsystem for Windows, despite my immense hate for the Windows Operating System.

[techhelpbb]

Solidworks, Mach3 CNC,.NET, I mean you got your open source knock offs in linux, but lets be honest with out selfs, productivity wise, they suck. You don't have time too make excuses, it just needs too work. That is why no one in industry uses linux.

I guess it depends on your interests:

I have plenty of Mach3 and plenty of LinuxCNC.
I think the LinuxCNC is far more powerful in closed loop.
I also think the LinuxCNC community has far greater number of highly competent developers who can program FPGA to assist with closed loop.

.NET is also a hand hold. I mean I think it is great Microsoft finally delivered on the libraries you had to buy by the truckload with VB6. However even Microsoft realized they can not ignore Linux hence Mono.

Solidworks is good. I run it all the time on a Windows VM on Linux or OSX. I also own a license for Rhino which I helped beta on OSX.

If your shop thrives on mere turn key production I can see why you would want it to just work. My shop thrives on innovation so I want to know how and why it works such that I can completely tune my process. I have always made money by being the guy that could do what the bulk repeat people will not.

I mean let's take that a step further:

Why use Mach3 at all? Haas makes great controls. Spend the $30k and skip the retrofit entirely. Use AutoDesk Fusion 360 and HSMWorks so you can leverage someone else's infrastructure. Now you can skip all the CNC/CAD/CAM engineering and relinquish your cash in exchange for the time to focus on the projects. I assume, of course, you have projects that pay enough to cover these costs and up keep.

In reality no body I know in industry that has paying work of complexity enough to cover the CNC/CAD/CAM work bothers with building controls at all. The industrial guys that do dabble with building controls either have limited operating costs or custom needs. A good place for them to start is probably Windows. Sooner or later all the industrial guys I know that are serious either worked till they could buy the integrated controls or ended up on Linux when their needs became closed loop and their systems got custom enough. One of these guys I know is actually doing all this from his wheel chair with limited ability to control his movement so able bodied people we have no excuse.

[GreyingJay]

Solidworks, Mach3 CNC,.NET, I mean you got your open source knock offs in linux, but lets be honest with out selfs, productivity wise, they suck. You don't have time too make excuses, it just needs too work. That is why no one in industry uses linux.

So your definition of "industry" is desktop based design and manufacturing?

[techhelpbb]

So your definition of "industry" is desktop based design and manufacturing?

Let me put this out there:

I own 3 MaxNC machines with Mach3 software that came with them. Why? I wanted a desktop mill out of the box large enough to teach CNC and do limited runs on soft materials. I bought these for beginners in my makerspace

These machines are closed loop steppers. In the electronics on the machine is a PIC that measures the quadrature encoders and retries steps up to 8 times before failure. I can increase the axis power just by replacing the steppers with cog belt reductions, motors with encoders and LinuxCNC. Just like I replaced the spindles, spindle mounts and made new custom encoder mounts.

A great place to start out hence I bought them to help people who are trying to learn. I use a ShopMaster Patriot VFD at home post 2012 model. It has Mach3 and LinuxCNC. I got that machine from a new Haas owner.

[Boltman]

MY favorite system...

My Surface Pro 4 M3....these Hybrids are the future.

Runs Windows10 and Office 365 to perfection
Checks off every feature including Hello
Pen, track-pad, voice and touch
Best display on any system.
6th gen Skylake
Fanless and dead silent

I love my SP4..and students can get 10% off already reduced prices.
I had laptop prior (Vaio) ...the SP4 blows it away and I held on to my Vaio for four years because nothing was better.

[Toatekua]

Why hack ChromeOS when you can hack Google's backend with the real targets of value?
A breach in Google Docs would wipe out some law firms I know.

Then do it. :P

[techhelpbb]

Then do it. :P

I am fairly certain the folks at Google Chelsea Market in NYC whom I spent last night with would be trying to stop you frantically right now.

Just saying: it is much easier to attack than defend.

[FrankJ]

I am not sure how much of the this is true today, but ancient history, Apple had a couple of niche markets. Academia & graphic design. In the early days if you did graphic design IE print page layouts, you used an Apple.

[GreyingJay]

I am not sure how much of the this is true today, but ancient history, Apple had a couple of niche markets. Academia & graphic design. In the early days if you did graphic design IE print page layouts, you used an Apple.

Apple used to be the de facto standard for graphic design, music production, and video editing. However, Apple has been criticized in recent years for dumbing down or discontinuing their "pro" software packages. Their "pro" hardware is laughably expensive and not suited for many professional uses (how do you install a RAID into a Mac Pro? how do you rack mount it?) and woefully out of date. Most of Apple's hardware line only gets refreshed once every year or two, and the pro hardware is all overdue.

Unfortunately I think Apple has discovered that their ticket to printing money is by selling shiny phones and watches for the style-conscious (and deep pocketed) mass market.

Meanwhile Windows continues to improve and most software for graphic design and video production is available on both platforms (Premiere, Avid, Adobe Creative Suite, etc.)

I love my retina MacBook Pro, but my next machine may very well be a Windows box that dual boots to Linux.

[techhelpbb]

Meanwhile Windows continues to improve and most software for graphic design and video production is available on both platforms (Premiere, Avid, Adobe Creative Suite, etc.)

I love my retina MacBook Pro, but my next machine may very well be a Windows box that dual boots to Linux.

I still have an Amiga 4000 with non-linear Video Toaster Flyer on it.
Almost 20 years later NewTek is around and there's PC version of the Video Toaster.

It was no simple feat to get the genlock working apparently for a system that is free running and no multiple of any practical video clock.

I am confident that if people want an application on their OS and computer platform bad enough they'll find a way: eventually. Even if it costs a ton of money to make it work. It's just funny sometimes when Windows advocates assume that all great things started there.

[GreyingJay]

It's just funny sometimes when Windows advocates assume that all great things started there.

When it comes to video editing specifically, I remember my very first forays included using an Apple ][ to generate titles and animations! I wowed everyone in my 8th grade science class by making a wireframe animation of how antihistamines work. :p

I started hobbyist video editing with a miniDV camera and editing software on Windows, then switched to the Mac ecosystem for many years. (I was shocked by how capable iMovie was compared to my "professional" PC setup.) I still love my Mac and want to buy an HD/4K camera to get back into video editing, but Apple seems to insist on transcoding everything into Apple Intermediate Codec, which seems like an annoying middle step that I can avoid by using non-Apple software (nobody on Windows seems to need to do this). So, Adobe Premiere or Final Cut Pro? I may have to try both...

[techhelpbb]

When it comes to video editing specifically, I remember my very first forays included using an Apple ][ to generate titles and animations! I wowed everyone in my 8th grade science class by making a wireframe animation of how antihistamines work. :p

I started hobbyist video editing with a miniDV camera and editing software on Windows, then switched to the Mac ecosystem for many years. (I was shocked by how capable iMovie was compared to my "professional" PC setup.) I still love my Mac and want to buy an HD/4K camera to get back into video editing, but Apple seems to insist on transcoding everything into Apple Intermediate Codec, which seems like an annoying middle step that I can avoid by using non-Apple software (nobody on Windows seems to need to do this). So, Adobe Premiere or Final Cut Pro? I may have to try both...

Almost 30 years ago I wrote an 8bit graphic cartoon on a Commodore 64 complete with voice dub on an RCA VCR and SID music. It was programmed almost entirely in Microsoft BASIC and a smidgen of assembler.

That's a VHS tape I keep locked in a safe because by today's standards it's just laughable :). Yes it and was very dorky.

2 years later I wrote a wire-frame based model in FORTH that represented the floors of whole buildings for security alerting. It was in a high security system for 18 years after that. When alarms went off it would literally allow you to zoom into the wire-frame to highlight the activated sensor or system. Considering Hollywood used stuff like this in movies around that time to look cool that wasn't too bad for a kid that hadn't graduated high school yet.