Best FIRST Game EVER?

[BenHildy]

I have looked at the past games, and I found that the games that have been designed for FRC and FTC in particular are very interesting. Some are fantastic, some are sub-par. I want to know what you all think is the best game ever made, based on difficulty, new concepts, unique playing pieces, or overall entertainment factors. FTC and FRC can be ranked separately, but they can also be ranked together. Personally, my picks are:

FTC: 2014 Block Party
While I may be biased because I played this game, it was a well designed game with lots of different ways to score. It is known for being easy, but it introduced many new concepts, such as the balancing scoring bins and the flag-spinner. Plus, the pull-up bar was a fun challenge to attempt.

FRC: 2004 FIRST Frenzy
While this may be a controversial selection, I personally believe that this was a very innovative game with interesting goals. The return of the rolling goals was no surprise, but the idea of a multiplier was innovative. The combination of two differently sized balls allowed for a larger variation of strategy, and the scoring center structure required a drive train capable of climbing steps. Finally, the hanging option is always entertaining!

EDIT: I've added a poll of the top five FRC games that people have voted for so far. Please vote for your favorite!

[carpedav000]

My favorites are a bit different: :p


FLL: 2011 BODY FORWARD
- My first year of FIRST, founding member of Bullotics

FTC: 2015 CASCADE EFFECT
- Was a driver, finalist alliance captain at state.

FRC: 2012 REBOUND RUMBLE and 2011 LOGOMOTION
- Couldn't decide I LOVE the designs that came from these games (especially 118 in 2011)

[Lobão]

2004 First Frenzy
Always say that.
Different ways to score, 2 sizes of balls, movable parts, great field with big obstacles but plenty of space to move and the human player could make difference too.

and also

FRC 2007 Rack n´Roll
Strategy game (board game with robots) with great autonomous challenge and interaction between robots (one climbing the other at the end)

[JohnFogarty]

2014 - FTC Block Party was very good. It was the best balanced game I'd seen since Get Over it.

2014 - Aerial Assist is going to be my favorite game for a long time for FRC.

[Robogeddon]

My favorite is 2013 - Ultimate Ascent. Challenging game piece, pyramids were cool. Fun to watch, easy to understand for people who don't get FIRST.
Just my opinion :D

[kyle_hamblett]

I've got 3
2006 - Aim High
Lots of heavy hitting, shooting balls (Who doesn't like that?) and dedicated defense period.

2013 - Ultimate Ascent
Shooting frisbees, wide open field, and an extremely simple yet fun game.

2014 - Aerial Assist
A bit biased due to being my first actual game, but lots of defense, open field, and it was hard to get carried. It truly required the efforts of the entire alliance to be successful.

[mrnoble]

This is my 12th year of involvement in FRC. I think this game is the best designed, and it's pretty fun to play. I still like 2014 better personally, because I think it could actually be turned into a sport for robots if it was developed further.

[Zuelu562]

With my 9th FRC season under my belt (4 as student, 5 as a mentor), my top 3 FRC games:

#3 - 2014;Aerial Assist: The first year I can solidly remember (in my time) a box on wheels being a viable, albeit suboptimal, alliance partner at any time, as long as the robots were competent. Great game/design, great elimination play.

#2 - 2010;Breakaway: I was spared the end of season shenanigans involving scoring on yourself, and I loved the pure simplicity of the game from a rules/non-initiated viewer's perspective.

#1 - Rebound Rumble: My favorite game, partially because it's one of the best bots my current team has ever built. Another in the "simple to watch" category, it fit well in that space, and thrived on it. High level play was awesome to watch.

[Chris Hibner]

2000 (Coopertition FIRST) was easily the best game in my mind. It could be played on TV and do well. It had everything that makes a great game for me:

1) Great race at the start of the match to tip the balance, but the advantage can be overcome.

2) The scoring is at the center of the field, so you can see all of the action.

3) You can always tell who's winning just by looking at the field - no need for real-time scoring.

4) Many ways to play the game led to many different robot designs.

5) Great end game

6) Great strategies

To me, 2000 is the only game that could make it in front of a non-FIRST audience.

[BenHildy]

2000 (Coopertition FIRST) was easily the best game in my mind. It could be played on TV and do well. It had everything that makes a great game for me:

1) Great race at the start of the match to tip the balance, but the advantage can be overcome.

2) The scoring is at the center of the field, so you can see all of the action.

3) You can always tell who's winning just by looking at the field - no need for real-time scoring.

4) Many ways to play the game led to many different robot designs.

5) Great end game

6) Great strategies

To me, 2000 is the only game that could make it in front of a non-FIRST audience.
That's an interesting take on this question. I like it. I've never taken into account which game would be best for non-robotics audiences. Another couple that would be interesting for TV audiences would be 2012 or 2010, based on the fact that both were relatively low scoring in their early days, and they are based off of wildly popular sports and don't stray far from their core concepts.

[Drakxii]

2012 Rebound Rumble good auto, good teleop, and best end game.

2014 Aerial Assist is a close second for me, with it's great teleop and good auto.

[Wert3141]

I thought 2012 (Rebound Rumble) was an amazingly well designed game. It was very easy for newcomers to follow and watch, the real time scoring was spot on, it had just the right amount of defense, and the end game was insane to watch.

[teslalab2]

I love Lunacy and I am really sad I never got to play it.

[Montavo]

My personal favorite would be 2013s - Ultimate Ascent.
- The game had an interesting/fun game piece which we would sometimes use during our break to play catch with the team.
- Ultimate Ascent was a simple for everyone to understand (Shoot frisbees into goals, End game Hang on the pyramid), although the game did not really emphasize teamwork they did a great job involving teamwork in 2014 & 2015 bringing in points for assist + cooperation.

[BumblingBuilder]

I have a feeling this thread was inspired by our discussion heading home from North Star....::rtm::

[BenHildy]

I have a feeling this thread was inspired by our discussion heading home from North Star....::rtm::
Partly, yes. However I'm also just generally curious. That's why the discussion on the bus happened in the first place

[SteveGPage]

My $0.02:

FTC - 2010 - Hot Shot. Only game I ever coached a team. It helped that we (Under the Son) were the World Champs that year, too! :)

FRC:
1. Aim High - loved the offense and defense periods, as well as the end game.
2. Ultimate Ascent - fast moving, great challenge, loved climbing the tower.
3. Stronghold (after the season, I'll have a better chance to reflect on this and not be just comparing this year to last year!)

[chrisfl]

2014 Aerial Assist was probably the best game. It was a lot of strategy on the drivers side as literally anything could happen. We also had families saying they would invite their friends over to watch our events as if it was a football game. I really liked the 2012 game, Rebound Rumble, but I feel it came before its time. There were a lot of low scoring matches as it was hard to score and I'd love to see the game now with more advanced vision software and technology.

[BenHildy]

My $0.02:

FTC - 2010 - Hot Shot. Only game I ever coached a team. It helped that we (Under the Son) were the World Champs that year, too! :)

FRC:
1. Aim High - loved the offense and defense periods, as well as the end game.
2. Ultimate Ascent - fast moving, great challenge, loved climbing the tower.
3. Stronghold (after the season, I'll have a better chance to reflect on this and not be just comparing this year to last year!)

I agree with Aim High being pretty high up there. With it being only the second year with a three-team alliance, the whole idea of the robots switching between periods of offense and defense created some truly interesting robot designs. Also the challenge of shooting into a minuscule hole challenged the programming teams more than ever before. Finally, the added difficulty of driving up a fairly steep ramp at the end was fun!

[bduddy]

I tried making a list once, then decided it was too hard. So, here instead, is my tier list of the 16 games I have any knowledge of. (The first game I saw in person is 2004, but I feel like I know enough about the three before that to judge them). Games are not ranked within a tier.

Tier 1
2014 - Aerial Assist
2006 - Aim High

Tier 2
2016 - Stronghold
2013 - Ultimate Ascent
2012 - Rebound Rumble
2005 - Triple Play
2004 - FIRST Frenzy

Tier 3
2010 - Breakaway
2008 - FIRST Overdrive
2007 - Rack n Roll
2002 - Zone Zeal

Tier 4
2015 - Recycle Rush
2011 - Logomotion
2009 - Lunacy

Tier 5
2003 - Stack Attack
2001 - Diabolical Dynamics

My opinion only, of course. Aim High is really the one where I leaned more on public opinion, because I saw very little of that game.

I'd really like to learn enough about the first 9 games to rate them, but there isn't that much video out there or anything...

[Conor Ryan]

I would really like to see a reboot of a challenge similar to FIRST Frenzy. 3v3 instead of 2v2. The game still stands as a very difficult challenge.

My Favorite Games:
04 - FIRST Frenzy - So many ways to play the game in an effective manner. Human player was able to influence the outcome.
Cons: Some parts were ahead of its time, field had a lot of things going on.

13 - Aerial Assist - The game piece we always wanted.
Cons: The injuries

14 - Ultimate Accent - THE STRATEGY OMG. I still don't think people understand how to play this game.
Cons: No End Game. Arguably the single most difficult engineering challenge with climbing and shooting.

06 - Aim High - Fun way to score.
Cons: My Robot sounded like a rusty shopping cart. Scoring options were limited, not much variety in strategy.

[thatprogrammer]

I would really like to see a reboot of a challenge similar to FIRST Frenzy. 3v3 instead of 2v2. The game still stands as a very difficult challenge.

My Favorite Games:
04 - FIRST Frenzy - So many ways to play the game in an effective manner. Human player was able to influence the outcome.
Cons: Some parts were ahead of its time, field had a lot of things going on.

13 - Aerial Assist - The game piece we always wanted.
Cons: The injuries

14 - Ultimate Accent - THE STRATEGY OMG. I still don't think people understand how to play this game.
Cons: No End Game. Arguably the single most difficult engineering challenge with climbing and shooting.

06 - Aim High - Fun way to score.
Cons: My Robot sounded like a rusty shopping cart. Scoring options were limited, not much variety in strategy.
I think you have 13 and 14 confused :(

[RonAyyyyyyyy]

I think Ultimate Ascent was by far the best game just because of the strategic variety. There were so many ways to contribute meaningfully to an alliance and because of that, so many different types of robots (floor load sweepers, full court shooters, pure cyclers, 50 point end games).

But my personal favorite is Aerial Assist, I personally liked the strategy behind that game a lot more.

[macman828]

2000 (Coopertition FIRST) was easily the best game in my mind. It could be played on TV and do well. It had everything that makes a great game for me:

1) Great race at the start of the match to tip the balance, but the advantage can be overcome.

2) The scoring is at the center of the field, so you can see all of the action.

3) You can always tell who's winning just by looking at the field - no need for real-time scoring.

4) Many ways to play the game led to many different robot designs.

5) Great end game

6) Great strategies

To me, 2000 is the only game that could make it in front of a non-FIRST audience.

I agree. As a students it was close enough to 1998 Ladder Logic game that we knew where to start. We had a blast. Team 170 back then.

[who716]

Well I think recycle rush and lunacy would be my top two picks hahahahaa just kidding....


Aerial assist for sure is my number one nothing beats a game where it comes down to defense to win and a smart strategy

[MooreteP]

2004 First Frenzy
Always say that.
Different ways to score, 2 sizes of balls, movable parts, great field with big obstacles but plenty of space to move and the human player could make difference too.

FRC 2007 Rack n´Roll
Strategy game (board game with robots) with great autonomous challenge and interaction between robots (one climbing the other at the end)

Agree with you here. Especially FIRST Frenzy. The first Autonomous.
Both of these games had a visual component that the audience could use to gauge the performance of the alliances.

2000 (Coopertition FIRST) was easily the best game in my mind. It could be played on TV and do well. It had everything that makes a great game for me:

1) Great race at the start of the match to tip the balance, but the advantage can be overcome.
2) The scoring is at the center of the field, so you can see all of the action.
3) You can always tell who's winning just by looking at the field - no need for real-time scoring.
4) Many ways to play the game led to many different robot designs.
5) Great end game
6) Great strategies

To me, 2000 is the only game that could make it in front of a non-FIRST audience.

The first game with a hang. All of the game pieces stayed on the field.
There was a legitimate endgame of hanging or trying to get on the ramp.

I thought 2012 (Rebound Rumble) was an amazingly well designed game. It was very easy for newcomers to follow and watch, the real time scoring was spot on, it had just the right amount of defense, and the end game was insane to watch.

Very true.

While I love Stronghold, the endgame is not quite as exciting as Rebound Rumble or Rack"n"Roll. Unless the Robots scale the Tower.

Similar to Aerial Assist, or Ultimate Ascent, the game pieces are recycled or disappear, requiring the audience to watch the scoring screen to assess the progress of the match. Requires a good Game Announcer to build suspense. :)

[MooreteP]

Well I think recycle rush and lunacy would be my top two picks hahahahaa just kidding....

Lunacy had great game theory.
While you were scoring, you could be scored upon.
It also had the best introduction.
Lunacy Introduction (https://youtu.be/3CfX9zCGIFg)
The static electricity issues with the Regolith were amusing.
Dean himself was observed on the field with a water bottle sprayer at a competition.

[Nathan Streeter]

Of the seasons I've been significantly involved in (2006-2016):

My personal opinion is if a lot of the "older" games, that most everyone loved at the time (Aim High, for instance), were repeated many would like the game less. The standards are higher for games now, and our more distant memories tend to be tinted positively or negatively...

Tier 1 - Games that seem fantastic top-to-bottom
2016 - Stronghold
2013 - Ultimate Ascent
2010 - Breakaway

Tier 2 - Games that had a lot going for them, but with a non-trivial flaw or two
2015 - Recycle Rush
2012 - Rebound Rumble
2011 - Logomotion
2008 - Overdrive
2006 - Aim High

Tier 3 - Generally good games, with at least one element that significantly tarnished the game
2014 - Aerial Assist
2007 - Rack 'n Roll

Tier 4 - I'd really rather not compete in this game again
2009 - Lunacy

[JackN]

In this context I think Best and Favorite have very different meanings.

To me the two BEST games that FIRST has released since I have been involved (2005-Present) are Aerial Assist and Aim High. These two games are the closest I think FIRST has ever come to nailing the idea of competition robotics. In my opinion FIRST should be striving to create games that are easily accessible to the average person and could be broadcast on TV.

Aim High works because it is so conceptually simple. Three robots try to shoot balls into a goal, most balls wins. I think the other variations on this idea (2012/2016) have tried to introduce more elements that generally detract from what makes this game so fun, the ball shooting. Of the ball shooting games this had the easiest goal and I think it works because teams of all skill level could contribute pretty easily. My only complaint was the shooting speed limits because I think that did limit some of the more interesting possibilities for the game.

Aerial Assist is the closest we have ever come to a full contact game where teams have to play offense and defense. It is fairly simple conceptually and could work for the general public, though assists are kind of a weird concept in practice. Having said all of that, I honestly think that this game played out pretty miserably in practice and I have never figured out why anyone likes it. The game always struck me as very shallow strategically, with every alliance eventually doing the same thing by championship.

My personal favorite game is Ultimate Ascent for a variety of reasons. You could replay that game two or three years in a row with zero changes, and the best robot design would change every single year which I think is mind boggling. The diversity of alliance composition and strategy exhibited at the highest levels was so interesting to me and unique in almost any game designed by FIRST. All four Einstein alliances attempted to play the game in a completely different way, which is something that never happens in any game. I think this game's flaw is that there were so many different and unique things happening that it is pretty hard to impossible to tell who was winning at most times, so it would probably be a bad game for the general public. Even still, I would love to play this game again and it is my favorite game ever designed.

[Taylor]

Why is FIRST Stronghold not on the poll?

[BenHildy]

Why is FIRST Stronghold not on the poll?

The poll was created after the first 15 comments or so, and no one had ranked it as high. Sorry about that.

[Chris is me]

It will be very, very hard for a game to top 2013's Ultimate Ascent - the game had the perfect mix of difficult design constraints, strategic diversity, offensive protection, defensive strategy, and possibilities for iteration. There was basically no robot that year that truly mastered every single game task - you absolutely had to compromise on at least some portion of the game (and the less compromising you did, the more you risked sacrificing effectiveness in some aspect of the game). If we played the game again, we still wouldn't know what the "right" design was - nothing was unbeatable.

2012 and 2016 are, of the games I've played, those closest to 2013 in quality. 2012 was almost as good, but ultimately annoyances with ball variation and the coopertition bridge make it a smidge worse than 2013, plus there was a bit less diversity in design. The 2016 game is very, very good - perhaps time will tell that it is up there with 2013 among the best games ever. I'm very happy with it, but it remains to be seen just how much strategic depth it has.

[Ben Martin]

Ultimate Ascent. Points were balanced, the floor was relatively low for shooting a frisbee, games were fast-paced and exciting, and the field geometry and rules forced diversity in robot designs and distinct roles at the highest level of play. You couldn't build a robot that would be the absolute best at every task. Defense and counter-defense strategies were important for both protecting and shutting down full-court shooters. The potential was there for big point swings based on changes in one's strategy. Game piece variability was also far less of a factor than it has ever been for a shooting game. Rankings and the eliminations play structure were simple.

Also, the most competitive off-season event made zero rule changes (aside from giving +5 lb and switching to 1-8, 1-8, 8-1 alliance selection), which I think speaks to the strength of the original game.

[dirtbikerxz]

Why are we not talking about Stronghold? Is this legacy games only? :P

[George A.]

I'm almost certain that this will be an unpopular opinion, (and forgive me if it was only supposed to be from those choices listed) but my favorite game so far has to be Triple Play for the sheer strategy involved.

It was the first game to introduce alliances of 3 which completely threw us for a loop, tetras were the most unique object we had to deal with (and arguably the most unique ever) and there were 18 places to score! (on top of 9 goals under 9 goals)

Given the scoring nature of the game each tetra placed could literally have a 40 point swing in the scores. Working with your partners to get in a rhythm and work on who would place a tetra when and where they would place it was crucial as if there was a backup it could be devastating to your alliance.

[BenHildy]

I'm almost certain that this will be an unpopular opinion, (and forgive me if it was only supposed to be from those choices listed) but my favorite game so far has to be Triple Play for the sheer strategy involved.

It was the first game to introduce alliances of 3 which completely threw us for a loop, tetras were the most unique object we had to deal with (and arguably the most unique ever) and there were 18 places to score! (on top of 9 goals under 9 goals)

Given the scoring nature of the game each tetra placed could literally have a 40 point swing in the scores. Working with your partners to get in a rhythm and work on who would place a tetra when and where they would place it was crucial as if there was a backup it could be devastating to your alliance.
There is not rule about which you can post about, again sorry for the low amount of options on the poll, so don't fret! I like your opinion here, as Triple Play has always held a certain place in my heart. The game itself was so strange and new that it's reception was very diverse. Some hated it and some loved it. It's good to see its positive presence here!

[Peyton Yeung]

I'm almost certain that this will be an unpopular opinion, (and forgive me if it was only supposed to be from those choices listed) but my favorite game so far has to be Triple Play for the sheer strategy involved.

It was the first game to introduce alliances of 3 which completely threw us for a loop, tetras were the most unique object we had to deal with (and arguably the most unique ever) and there were 18 places to score! (on top of 9 goals under 9 goals)

Given the scoring nature of the game each tetra placed could literally have a 40 point swing in the scores. Working with your partners to get in a rhythm and work on who would place a tetra when and where they would place it was crucial as if there was a backup it could be devastating to your alliance.

What i think is interesting about 2005 was that from a strategic stand point it is a constant game of chess, every action you make is countered by your opponent and it becomes a game of thinking a few moves ahead.

[pandamonium]

What i think is interesting about 2005 was that from a strategic stand point it is a constant game of chess, every action you make is countered by your opponent and it becomes a game of thinking a few moves ahead.

2005 and 2007 had really complex strategies but from a coaching perspective stronghold is incredibly difficult and fun to coach.

[Peyton Yeung]

2005 and 2007 had really complex strategies but from a coaching perspective stronghold is incredibly difficult and fun to coach.

Last year was so much easier for me to coach. The drivers were practically on autopilot each match.

[BenHildy]

Last year was so much easier for me to coach. The drivers were practically on autopilot each match.

That's what I personally didn't like last year. With no robot interference from the other alliance (besides noodle throwing), the robots did the exact same thing every single match with very little variation of strategy on the spot, which I believe is a major part of FRC.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Looking at the scores from the 2003 World finals posted in another thread got me thinking; why haven't there been more games where de-scoring played a factor?

From my limited memory:
2002 score was dynamic until the end, depending on where the goals/balls/robots were. Moving goals out of the opposing team's scoring area would effectively de-score them.
2003 containers could be removed from the scoring area.
2007 Spoiler tubes could be hung to de-score the opposing alliance's tube/chain.

That's about all I can remember. Would be so awesome if score worked both ways again, instead of just up. Kind of don't like additive penalties for the same reason. It makes the other alliance look better, rather than yours look worse.

[Citrus Dad]

I have to wait until after Champs to decide.

[Charles Boehm]

My top two:

2013 - Ultimate Ascent
Maybe it's just because it was my rookie year but this game will always hold a special place in my heart. Very fun game piece and easy and fun to watch from the stands. There was something really satisfying about watching disc after disc hit that high goal.

2014 - Aerial Assist
While a lot of people I think would argue that the insane amount of defense really took away from this game, I think this still was one of the most exciting games to see develop over time. My favorite thing was to see all of the new and awesome ways people came up with to pass balls. "Secret Sauce" for example.

Perhaps it's because I'm on the drive team and get to literally play the game this year, but FIRST Stronghold might just top my list when we are through with it. :D

[BenHildy]

2014 - Aerial Assist
While a lot of people I think would argue that the insane amount of defense really took away from this game, I think this still was one of the most exciting games to see develop over time. My favorite thing was to see all of the new and awesome ways people came up with to pass balls. "Secret Sauce" for example.

I would agree with you here, that the complex offensive strategies brought forth by Aerial Assist truly developed a new feel to the game that we'd never really seen before. The idea that a human player could have so much impact on the game was kind of unheard of, at least since the early 2000's. Also, I didn't mind the ungodly defense, as it brought a new level of evasive maneuvers and shot precision to the drive teams. Plus, gotta love that bank shot from 254's human player...

[Bob Steele]

Agree with you here. Especially FIRST Frenzy. The first Autonomous.
:)

Actually the first game with autonomous was Stack Attack if I remember correctly....:0)

Note: I am NOT advocating for that game as the best ever... NOOOO!

[Charles Boehm]

Plus, gotta love that bank shot from 254's human player...

I remember watching that in person. I have NEVER heard an audience cheer louder.

[messer5740]

Not Stronghold?

[RonAyyyyyyyy]

Plus, gotta love that bank shot from 254's human player...

I love how 254's only weakness that year was that it was kind of hard to inbound into their robot, but they make up for it by having the best human player I've ever seen

[BenHildy]

the best human player I've ever seen

I second this

[M217]

Not Stronghold?

Agreed. I'd rank Stronghold as solidly #1, with Ultimate Ascent in second Place and Rebound Rumble in 3rd.

[Alex2614]

With my 9th FRC season under my belt (4 as student, 5 as a mentor), my top 3 FRC games:

#3 - 2014;Aerial Assist: The first year I can solidly remember (in my time) a box on wheels being a viable, albeit suboptimal, alliance partner at any time, as long as the robots were competent. Great game/design, great elimination play.

#2 - 2010;Breakaway: I was spared the end of season shenanigans involving scoring on yourself, and I loved the pure simplicity of the game from a rules/non-initiated viewer's perspective.

#1 - Rebound Rumble: My favorite game, partially because it's one of the best bots my current team has ever built. Another in the "simple to watch" category, it fit well in that space, and thrived on it. High level play was awesome to watch.

Also my 9th season (4 as student, 5 as mentor). Before Stronghold, these were my top three, but in a different order. I'd put Aerial Assist first, Rebound Rumble second, and Breakaway third. For me, though, 2016 moves up to #1 so far. And I'd add Overdrive to the list too.

Now for least favorite games? starting with least favorite, Lunacy, Recycle Rush, Logomotion, Ultimate Ascent, in that order.