What will FRC 2016 Stronghold be remembered by? [Archive]

AquaMorph

30-04-2016, 19:32

I personally think this year will be remembered as the year of fouls. The finals of Einstein being decided on a foul, to the 254, 1241, 708 red card match with 55 total points worth of fouls. What do you think?

This was my favorite game FRC has had since Ultimate Ascent. I feel like it was close to being the best game ever but the amount of red cards in eliminations changed that opinion for me. It seems the rules were applied differently depending on the out come of the match. Which feels just wrong. That being said I don't think the fouls took too much away from the game. It was always a fun game to watch.

samthesnake

30-04-2016, 19:33

I agree on the year of the fouls. With 1678 and 148 in our field, we genuinely thought they would have an epic cheesecake and make this the year of the cheesecake. Congrats to all the Einstein teams as it was truly incredible to watch.

pmangels17

30-04-2016, 19:34

I'll remember it as a fantastic recovery from the 2015 game, and consider it an extension of the GDC's excellent streak that started in 2010 (some would argue 2012) for fantastic games. Stronghold has been an absolute blast to watch. It's design challenges were unique, and the Stronghold game produced a diverse field of creative designs to play the game. So many different and wonderful strategies and robots came from this game. The vision challenge was actually really meaningful and impactful this year. The finals were exciting at both the district/regional and championship level. The game was complex and nuanced, yet I could still explain it to someone in a couple sentences. The theming was actually really fun, and it was great to see the teams who ran with it all the way. In my mind, FIRST Stronghold was a gleaming success for FRC. I won't remember it as the year of fouls. There are fouls every year (2014) but that didn't detract from the overall fantastic gameplay that Stronghold provided.

Jared Russell

30-04-2016, 19:34

This $@#$@#$@#$@# is mother$@#$@#$@#$@#in dope

The other Gabe

30-04-2016, 19:37

^^^

Eugene Fang

30-04-2016, 19:38

This $@#$@#$@#$@# is mother$@#$@#$@#$@#in dope

Same

trumpthero786

30-04-2016, 19:41

This $@#$@#$@#$@# is mother$@#$@#$@#$@#in dope

This

People will forget the specifics about fouls; they will just become a thing that happened. Streaks? Nah. New ones will be made and others broken. But this? This will live on forever in the world of FIRST.

Carl C

30-04-2016, 19:42

Last Championship event before the "championsplit".

kristinweiss

30-04-2016, 19:44

This $@#$@#$@#$@# is mother$@#$@#$@#$@#in dope

Definitely this!

Roboshant

30-04-2016, 19:45

This $@#$@#$@#$@# is mother$@#$@#$@#$@#in dope

Video: http://oddshot.tv/shot/frcgamesense-20160430231114184

Thanks to ricar144 from team 865 on reddit FRC

MikLast

30-04-2016, 19:45

This $@#$@#$@#$@# is mother$@#$@#$@#$@#in dope

This and 330's crazy flipping skills in the Semis.

ghostmachine360

30-04-2016, 19:46

This $@#$@#$@#$@# is mother$@#$@#$@#$@#in dope

New policy: #FIRSTUncensored

natejo99

30-04-2016, 19:50

The "Carver Curse" was broken.

Cory

30-04-2016, 20:08

This $@#$@#$@#$@# is mother$@#$@#$@#$@#in dope

TSIMFD!!!!

Tom Bottiglieri

30-04-2016, 20:09

TSIMFD!!!!

#tsimfd

IronicDeadBird

30-04-2016, 20:11

The biggest thing I think I will always remember about this year is that it made it clear that the GDC hears a lot.

MikLast

30-04-2016, 20:21

NSFW obliviously, but Will.I.Am being Will (https://www.twitch.tv/frcgamesense/v/63756808?t=04h18m59s)

indubitably

30-04-2016, 20:26

#tsimfd

#OMFGRobots

The "Carver Curse" was broken.

We learned the real Curie curse was once you win champs as a Curie team, mysterious forces will prevent you from making Einstein ever again...

Steve Compton

30-04-2016, 21:03

Unremarkable high scores in elims in light of relatively low to no defense.

Connor McBride

30-04-2016, 21:08

330. Enough said.

-Connor

Type

30-04-2016, 21:09

Stronghold will go down in history as the "Great Pneumatic Wheel Shortage". I believe everyone will also remember it as one of the most abusive years. Last year our robot never broke, this year we were surprised when we rolled our robot into the pit every once in awhile and find out that nothing broke.

MARS_James

30-04-2016, 21:16

#OMFGRobots

We learned the real Curie curse was once you win champs as a Curie team, mysterious forces will prevent you from making Einstein ever again...

That mysterious force has a name it is called gravity

jojoguy10

30-04-2016, 21:36

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/68171258.jpg

Moo Chew

30-04-2016, 21:45

Maybe field damage; how many field elements were damaged... or the penalties/red cards.��

chandrew

30-04-2016, 21:50

Tipping fouls specifically.

pipsqueaker

30-04-2016, 22:00

I will remember it as the year of close matches. So many matches on Einstein were decided by 5 points or less.

I would have loved to remember this as the year 2056 traded in their streak to take the final world championship, but there is no denying that the beach bots played out of their goddamn minds. 2056's defense bot played so incredibly well too, that defense was truly a wonder to watch. 987 finally entered into the Hall of Fame. Carver came out of the blue to go all the way. Whatever people think about the tiebreakers, I will look fondly back on this year.

Also 1690's pre-match flair was really fun to watch :D

BenjiSG

30-04-2016, 22:01

Newton being stacked, having its 7th seed win, and then going out in quarters on Einstein. What a journey.

Jsteel

30-04-2016, 22:36

How incredibly equal this game made everyone. Look at how many #2 alliances lost early today. I truly believe that many matches could be replayed and the other alliance would win. It just comes down to who can make it happen when it counted.

mrnoble

30-04-2016, 23:18

This game was as close to being the perfect vehicle for the mission and vision of FIRST as I have seen, or think to be possible. Raise the floor, keep the ceiling high, keep the challenge fresh, engage the culture, etc. I honestly think that Will.i.am's little statement is an "engagement with the culture" and will be a tool for reaching more students. It was the perfect capstone to a great game. I look forward to sharing that little video with my students next fall and watching the interest increase. It also doesn't hurt that this year's robots will be super easy to use as recruiting tools, unlike last year's. In short, I'll remember Stronghold as my favorite game.

dirtbikerxz

30-04-2016, 23:26

Brutal on your bot.
Brutal on other bots.
Insane Defense.
Amazing and complex Game
Required mad driving skillz (depending on the bot).
Extremly fun to watch.
Was possible for "lower" teams to win stuff, unlike other games *cough* recycle rush *cough*

And yes...: This $@#$@#$@#$@# is mother$@#$@#$@#$@#in dope

Oblarg

30-04-2016, 23:34

I have no complaints about the game itself as far as how it played, apart from the goofy fan-selected defenses (why?). Sure, it was brutal on the robots - but that's an engineering challenge like any other, and perhaps it's one we ought to have more of (only recent game where this was at all a concern was 2014, and even then it was almost all bumper-bumper contact which is much easier to predict/nullify than how rough Stronghold was on drive trains). Good learning experience for the students. The game was fun and engaging and the parity was great.

I do have a bone to pick over the gargantuan task of mocking up the field. The mock-ups were not particularly great simulations of the actual field, for starters (the portcullis, in particular...), but that's par for the course. However, there were simply too many things teams had to build. We barely had room to store all of the wooden monstrosities we had to make, and I shudder to think how difficult it must have been for teams with fewer resources to make all that crap in addition to building a robot. This is a very real consideration with game design, and it's usually not a problem (the only other recent year I really had cause to complain about this was 2013 and that ridiculous pyramid).

emeraldstorm

30-04-2016, 23:36

Newton being stacked, having its 7th seed win, and then going out in quarters on Einstein. What a journey.

This. I could(n't) believe how many favorites were knocked out so early. Especially (610/973/319/2474), (1114/27/20), with Newton alliances (118/1519/3309/1519), (16/2614/4001), (67/5172/1477), and the obvious (254/1241/708/1731).

dirtbikerxz

30-04-2016, 23:45

I do have a bone to pick over the gargantuan task of mocking up the field. The mock-ups were not particularly great simulations of the actual field, for starters (the portcullis, in particular...), but that's par for the course. However, there were simply too many things teams had to build. We barely had room to store all of the wooden monstrosities we had to make, and I shudder to think how difficult it must have been for teams with fewer resources to make all that crap in addition to building a robot. This is a very real consideration with game design, and it's usually not a problem (the only other recent year I really had cause to complain about this was 2013 and that ridiculous pyramid).

We personally didn't make the drawbridge, sally port, or the portcullis.. (we also didn't make the moat, but that was because it wasn't a challenge for our bot). Since we don't have the resources to have a full field, we didn't really view not having those resources as a problem. We simply just used the specs (the dimensions) and designed the mechanisms as accurate as possible, and tweaked it on the thursday at regionals.

I personally like having so many components, it really varies the game up. I really don't think the GDC should limit themselves in this area due to this reason.

Adithya Balaji

30-04-2016, 23:46

I know personally I will remember this year by this moment:
http://i.imgur.com/KtjGIUe.gif

But on a serious note, the amount abuse that robots sustained from this year's contest was insane. By the end of our district champs we had hubs chipping, gears shearing, and belts slipping just to name a few. Only the most rugged robots survived this year's contest. We did have our fair share of fun ripping defenses out of their bases though :)

Drakxii

30-04-2016, 23:59

One of the best FRC games. A game that great for all tiers of play while being both complex and rough. Even though the game was tarnished by ties and red cards.

Side Note: This game would be a great frame work for another game. Would just need to change the defenses, game piece and tower configuration.

coalhot

01-05-2016, 00:40

For me, inconsistent reffing (across district, DCMP and champs), and the game being treated like battlebots...

Bring on 2017!

Ginger Power

01-05-2016, 01:45

I think when the dust settles and people are looking back on Stronghold from a distance it'll go down as one of the best FIRST games of all time. Red cards, fouls, mocking up defenses... I think most of those things will be forgotten by all but a few diehards (aka the people on this forum).

We can take some very important (and amazing) things away from Stronghold:

Some of the greatest matches in the history of FIRST. Whenever I'm selling the program to others I'm going to pull out the video of 330's otherworldly match. Fall down, don't give up, get back up and win. I feel so blessed to have seen that match in person. Greatest sporting moment I've ever seen especially considering where it led them.

Most teams have an incredible demo bot now. Big pneumatic wheels, a powerful shooter that fires a dodgeball... I don't know about other teams, but I know for a fact that 4607 will be playing dodgeball against our robot and practice robot. Plus those big pneumatic wheels are great for driving off road. We'll be driving our robot out onto the football field and in parades. Something we wouldn't do with 4" omni wheels. I'm excited for the marketing possibilities that this year's robots provide.

We all now have access to a soundbite that will undoubtedly make it loud. When Will.i.am said #tsimfd the people around me went absolutely insane. They weren't upset at the crude language. They were in absolute agreement. We all know what FIRST is. We all know how freaking incredible the program is. Will.i.am just went ahead and said what we all know to be true. I can't wait to show that clip to people.

Stronghold was one for the ages. It certainly brought energy back to FRC after that 2015 Game (whatever it was called) tried to suck the life out of it. I could see a Robozone-esque show on ESPN with highlights of Stronghold. I was sitting behind some older ladies who seemed to be outsiders to FIRST (no relation to teams + new to FIRST) and they were biting their knuckles and freaking out with the rest of us during those playoffs. There really isn't an audience that this game/program doesn't get to in some way. Very marketable game. Let's hope the GDC can keep up the great work.

maxnz

01-05-2016, 02:26

I will definitely remember the field faults. And 330's amazing semifinal match. That is one that will not be forgotten easily.

And how fun it was to watch our bot literally bounce over the defenses.

Jopidia

01-05-2016, 05:31

This game will be remembered as getting on that batter in the last 20 seconds. While it sounds simple enough, many teams would have won a match, but failed to get all of their teammates on the batter so they ended up losing. You could outplay the opponents the entire match and lose it all in the last second if your scaling mechaism disconnects or you get stuck on a broken game element (RIP Newton Alliance 3 semifinal 2). This was probably my least favorite part about this game. Also, excessive red card pulling. They clearly stated at the Drivers Meeting that the tip had to be intentional to be a penalty. They said something along the lines that if two robots go at each other and one tips over because they are top heavy, there is no penalty. But yet we saw it called time and time again.

Koko Ed

01-05-2016, 07:49

Stronghold will be remembered for being awesome!
and rather destructive....

GKrotkov

01-05-2016, 10:20

Unremarkable high scores in elims in light of relatively low to no defense.

This is a key point condensed a bunch. Many alliances made it too easy to pilfer out of thier secret passage, or committed to a triple cycler offense when it was neither needed for the capture nor beneficial in the light of the strength of the opposing alliance.

Richard Wallace

01-05-2016, 11:12

Stronghold will be remembered for being awesome!
and rather destructive....This sums it up.^

And for the weirdest (http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2016new_sf1m2) match result I can recall. Stressful on the group at the scoring table trying to get the call right*, and on the alliances who had to go out and play again after that.

And for TSIMFD (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij8CkMm2fPw).

------
* Whether they ultimately did will be debated, I suppose (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1580858&postcount=18). My own view matches Jared's (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1580863&postcount=19).

Wayne TenBrink

01-05-2016, 14:04

... Raise the floor, keep the ceiling high, keep the challenge fresh, engage the culture, etc. I honestly think that Will.i.am's little statement is an "engagement with the culture" and will be a tool for reaching more students. It was the perfect capstone to a great game. I look forward to sharing that little video with my students next fall and watching the interest increase. ....

I won't be sharing that video with my students. Is FIRST changing the culture or is the culture changing FIRST? For the better??? I may be old school, but I found his remarks offensive.

...played out of their goddamn minds. ...:D

I know people mean well, but I hope we can do better than this. Our choice of words is important.

mrnoble

01-05-2016, 16:06

Our choice of words is important.

I agree. It's fair to note that the culture is changing, regardless of what happens in FIRST. Language use certainly is a very large part of that change. Websites like IFLScience are obvious hints that what was once barroom language is now out in the open. So what do we do? I guess it's up to each individual, but I know that relationships and mutual respect are key parts of working with students as far as I am concerned, and words are just tools for communicating. If it takes accepting the S and F word as part of respectful and relational dialogue with my kids, then I will gladly go there. Unless you are personally offended by words like bloody, sard, and odds bodkins, then you are also a product of the same evolution of language that is affecting our young people.

NormaLamotte

01-05-2016, 16:52

CloakAndDagger

01-05-2016, 17:04

In relation to will.i.am's statement

When you look at first, the mission statement is to make first as inclusive and attractive to the 'average high school student' as any sports team, and keep it competitive as well. To operate under the assumption that the average high school student doesn't swear, or that in some way having a notorious pop star, who has no aversion towards swearing, swear, reflects poorly on our organization is false in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, we (FIRST) should attempt to keep up a professional demeanor, but I also think that we need to work on breaking the idea of robotics students being nerds, and geeks, because that doesn't help our organization grow.

On a side note, there is a valid reason that FIRST doesn't mic drive teams

mrnoble

01-05-2016, 17:07

Wayne TenBrink, you have it exactly right. If we resort to using coarse language to relate to individuals who are or will become our great thinkers and doers, then my understanding of gracious professionalism is completely undone. Many grandmas were not proud of that comment. Mentors, leaders (and in my community, teachers who want to keep their jobs) and all others who want to work with CHILDREN need to continue to work toward cultivating an environment that is healthy for kids.

Clearly we have differing perspectives on this issue. Our communities certainly have different standards for what constitutes an offense worthy of termination, as well. Agree or disagree, isn't it interesting that successful schools exist where the principle uses the f word on back to school night in his welcome speech?

sarah_storer

01-05-2016, 17:17

Personally, I think this year will be remembered by how many different configurations the field could have. This feature really added to the strategy discussions because of defense selection and kept things interesting as opposed to stagnant.

CloakAndDagger

01-05-2016, 17:30

Also, I must say that the inclusion of Disney imagineering to this game was an excellent idea

Gregor

01-05-2016, 17:34

I won't be sharing that video with my students.

You don't have to share it because they've already seen it, that's the beauty of the entire thing. It's already gone "semi-viral" through robotics social media.

Shutting down the "robot kids are total nerds" persona would go a long way into bringing robotics into the mainstream (see: Battlebots), and Mr. I Am is helping do just that.

If you're worried about role models using swear words, you should listen to coaches (including some famous, fantastic mentors) behind the glass. There's a time and place in our culture for swearing, and Mr. I Am nailed it.

lethc

01-05-2016, 17:35

Personally I loved the theme. I think they went all in with it (defenses, towers, capturing, standards.. etc.) and it really paid off. If FIRST continues this trend with as much success as they had this year I think it will be a huge step in making the organization more accessible to the public.

Brian Michell

01-05-2016, 17:38

Akash Rastogi

01-05-2016, 18:10

Clearly we have differing perspectives on this issue. Our communities certainly have different standards for what constitutes an offense worthy of termination, as well. Agree or disagree, isn't it interesting that successful schools exist where the principle uses the f word on back to school night in his welcome speech?

I thought the statement was hilarious and candid. He stated how he felt. Dean laughed his butt off right after while hugging him.

If Dean found it amusing, I don't think other people should feel otherwise.

bvisness

01-05-2016, 18:20

I thought #tsimfd was funny, but that's not what I'm remembering this year for. I'm remembering it for our team's final qualification match - wherein we flipped our robot over, but STILL GOT THE CAPTURE because our alliance partners pushed us onto the batter.

https://youtu.be/YNJj_0nLkbI

grstex

01-05-2016, 18:53

I won't be sharing that video with my students. Is FIRST changing the culture or is the culture changing FIRST? For the better??? I may be old school, but I found his remarks offensive.

I know people mean well, but I hope we can do better than this. Our choice of words is important.

“Never use a big word when a little filthy one will do.”
― Johnny Carson

Will.i.am explained it perfectly: he said it the way he felt it. Life's too short to hold back good passion.

The only real shame is that few will remember what he said at closing ceremonies where he told tens of thousands of students that their hard work, ingenuity and entrepreneurship will solve problems like poverty and inner city decay. Maybe if he felt free to speak with the same level of passion, that message would have hit home too.

pipsqueaker

01-05-2016, 22:35

I know people mean well, but I hope we can do better than this. Our choice of words is important.

I'm well aware of the importance of diction, and yet sometimes a few well-placed, meaningful profanities can convey meaning and energy just as well (or even better) than any other words

connor.worley

01-05-2016, 22:38

Good game. Good balance of offensive objectives and offense vs defense overall. Fun to watch.

dirtbikerxz

01-05-2016, 22:45

I won't be sharing that video with my students. Is FIRST changing the culture or is the culture changing FIRST? For the better??? I may be old school, but I found his remarks offensive.

I know people mean well, but I hope we can do better than this. Our choice of words is important.

Don't worry, your students have already seen it. There is a time in our culture where swearing is alright. Nothing Will.I.Am said was offensive in anyway. He did not use the words in a offensive way. The words simply expressed his passion and they great deal of enjoyment he has with FIRST. If he had said that FIRST is "great", it simply wouldn't have had the same impact.
I have heard many many, great people using swear words. But they use it at the right time, and have the best impact because of them. Yes our choice of words is important, but Will.I.Am Couldn't have expressed his feelings any better in this situation.

Please don't just ignore me, or "write me off" because I am a teenager, everyone here means well, and are truly genuine when we say that his words were not offensive at all.

dirtbikerxz

01-05-2016, 22:48

To my team it will be remembered as the "Great Rhino Drive Debacle". We lost 3 weeks trying to get a drive train. Everybody had their heart set on a rhino drive but we could never get one. RhinoDrive has become a word that is jokingly banned in the club. ::rtm::

In my opinion, I am glad you didn't get a rhino drive. We were in the pit right behind you guys at lone star, and I think I remember you guys had pneumatic. Anyway, there were so many teams that had problems with rhino. They broke down a lot. And even when they didn't break down, they simply couldn't match the speed, agility, and toughness that a good drive train with pneumatic wheels had. No Rhino bot would have been able to maneuver like a bot like ours.

maxnz

01-05-2016, 23:02

In my opinion, I am glad you didn't get a rhino drive. We were in the pit right behind you guys at lone star, and I think I remember you guys had pneumatic. Anyway, there were so many teams that had problems with rhino. They broke down a lot. And even when they didn't break down, they simply couldn't match the speed, agility, and toughness that a good drive train with pneumatic wheels had. No Rhino bot would have been able to maneuver like a bot like ours.

Low pressure pneumatic wheels for the win!*

*They make you bounce a lot if you inflate them 'correctly'

Anthony Galea

01-05-2016, 23:08

In my opinion, I am glad you didn't get a rhino drive. We were in the pit right behind you guys at lone star, and I think I remember you guys had pneumatic. Anyway, there were so many teams that had problems with rhino. They broke down a lot. And even when they didn't break down, they simply couldn't match the speed, agility, and toughness that a good drive train with pneumatic wheels had. No Rhino bot would have been able to maneuver like a bot like ours.

I believe that only one team with Rhino treads made Einstein (5050). So I would agree that they usually not worth the trouble.

Chris is me

01-05-2016, 23:13

dirtbikerxz

01-05-2016, 23:16

Low pressure pneumatic wheels for the win!*

*They make you bounce a lot if you inflate them 'correctly'

We tried leaving the wheels low pressure for our first match this season, but after that match, as the driver I felt a lot of sluggishness, so I had them filled up to close to max...... Let's just say, If you knew how to drive and play right... they were a godsend. No terrain defense stood a chance, we literally "hopped" over all of them. And the speed our bot was able to get out of them (close to 30 ft/sec, more like 26) was insane.

dirtbikerxz

01-05-2016, 23:20

Chris is me

01-05-2016, 23:34

Please excuse my ignorance, no arrogance meant here at all, but was building a 6 or so wheel pneumatic (west coast) drive train that could perform decently well really that complicated? (Again no arrogance here, just curious)

Surprisingly, yes. There were several issues with it this year.

The "standard" WCD 16 tooth sprocket was simply not adequate to take the hard loads of the FRC field. Dozens of teams dealt with sprocket failure all season trying to cope with the extra forces involved.
Leaving no gaps in the drivetrain to prevent getting stuck on the rough terrain or moat while traversing slowly required attention to design details and usually more than six wheels. You could get a running start and avoid these issues most of the time, but not always.
In some cases, you could improperly load the old lower load 1/2" hex bearings or 1/2" hex shafts of weaker material.
Building a custom drivetrain at all is out of the reach of a large number of FRC teams; at least building one that is better than a commercial product. Vex has made this very easy in the last few years though.

MikLast

01-05-2016, 23:40

In my opinion, I am glad you didn't get a rhino drive. We were in the pit right behind you guys at lone star, and I think I remember you guys had pneumatic. Anyway, there were so many teams that had problems with rhino. They broke down a lot. And even when they didn't break down, they simply couldn't match the speed, agility, and toughness that a good drive train with pneumatic wheels had. No Rhino bot would have been able to maneuver like a bot like ours.

Zero issues with rhino treads. Our lead screw on the other hand broke twice. And our vision system is slightly buggy. But no issues with rhino treads.

emeraldstorm

01-05-2016, 23:40

I wouldn't say they weren't worth the trouble. It was possible to build a better system custom, sure, but Rhino treads helped hundreds of teams field competitive drivetrains that could cross defenses, and I'm willing to bet at least half of those teams would not have been able to do so otherwise. They were a fine product and a good solution for this year's game. They were not free of issues, but that applies to many, MANY custom drivetrains this year as well.

While I very much could be wrong on this one, I believe 195's treads were a custom variant of the Rhino tread system as well? So more than one Einstein team was rocking treads in any case. And you can't necessarily consider lack of use as an argument against the effectiveness of a drive system that was introduced very shortly before Kickoff - many teams simply were not willing to take a risk on a new product like that in a system as critical as the drivetrain.

Our team went with the RhinoTreads this year, and if I were to do it all over again, I would definitely go with a pneumatic wheel base. The treads caused too many compatibility and reliability issues with us, even with the upgraded pulleys. A 6WD or 8WD 8" pneumatic drivetrain, welded aluminum 1x1" frame, and 6-CIM PTO. We're gonna have the CAD and engineering power next year, and I'm really feeling it.

Now, for a beginner product, it certainly worked well. It put up well for what the game did to the robots. Nobody on our current team had any drivetrain engineering experience, and we went with what everybody else was going for. Thing is, it's a base product. It could easily be improved upon, yet serves the purpose quite adequately, just like any other base drivetrain you can order. And, it was a direct upgrade to the AM14U3 chassis. I saw several unlucky teams getting their chassis bent to hell in one day.

SeeleySWS

02-05-2016, 00:30

On a side note, there is a valid reason that FIRST doesn't mic drive teams

Haha especially this year! I can say that our team's drive teams both had a lot of great moments!

You can complain about what #TSIMFD but Will really said what I think most high schoolers think about the program... I mean we can act like engineers and scientists don't swear but they do... It might not have been professional but it sums up what all the students think.

Jon K.

02-05-2016, 00:32

I wouldn't say they weren't worth the trouble. It was possible to build a better system custom, sure, but Rhino treads helped hundreds of teams field competitive drivetrains that could cross defenses, and I'm willing to bet at least half of those teams would not have been able to do so otherwise. They were a fine product and a good solution for this year's game. They were not free of issues, but that applies to many, MANY custom drivetrains this year as well.

While I very much could be wrong on this one, I believe 195's treads were a custom variant of the Rhino tread system as well? So more than one Einstein team was rocking treads in any case. And you can't necessarily consider lack of use as an argument against the effectiveness of a drive system that was introduced very shortly before Kickoff - many teams simply were not willing to take a risk on a new product like that in a system as critical as the drivetrain.

We at AndyMark loved working on the Rhino, and loved seeing what teams like 195, 1747, and others came up with on ways to use the Rhino pulleys and belts in their own custom drive systems. I was amazed watching the hundreds of matches that I refereed this year and continually seeing the different drive configurations that were out there.

Also, congratulations to team 1501 who ran a stock Rhino system the whole season and made their way to Einstein and made all of us in Indiana proud!

This year was brutal on everyone, teams, robots, field crews and referees alike, but I think we can all agree that it brought the community together like very few games before it, and really allowed teams to focus on teaching moments similar to those that engineering in the real world has!

dirtbikerxz

02-05-2016, 00:33

Our team went with the RhinoTreads this year, and if I were to do it all over again, I would definitely go with a pneumatic wheel base. The treads caused too many compatibility and reliability issues with us, even with the upgraded pulleys. A 6WD or 8WD 8" pneumatic drivetrain, welded aluminum 1x1" frame, and 6-CIM PTO. We're gonna have the CAD and engineering power next year, and I'm really feeling it.

We didn't even weld. Just used a whole bunch of versachassis brackets, and a lot of bolts that ran from top to bottom through the entire drive train.... our bot was one of the very few that never broke down (drive train wise) at both of our regionals. ... Now our arm on the other hand... broke a few times at the first regional.

EricH

02-05-2016, 00:56

There's a lot of things to remember it by...

But I think one of the best is the WIDE variety of designs. Sure, there were a few "themes"--the low pop-up intake/shooter (can't think of one off the top of my head, at least definitely), the intake/elevated shooter combo (1538 comes to mind), the catapults, and the usual Brave Little Toasters (AKA, cheesecake plates), but overall the variety was HUGE this year. That isn't something that I've seen in a while. (2015 had one basic robot type: stack, stack, stack more, possibly with canburglars; 2014 had one-ish basic types, varying based on intake(s); 2013's main variance was the climbers... you get the idea.)

I really do think that this was one of the best games FIRST has ever developed. It's right up there with 2004 and 2007 for me on the list of "games I've played". It'd probably be up there even without 2015 happening.

Citrus Dad

02-05-2016, 01:14

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/68171258.jpg

Red cards were a bigger deal in 2013 in Ultimate Ascent. And 2014 had 50 point penalties that were basically red card equivalents. This year was mild in comparison.

PayneTrain

02-05-2016, 09:02

Red cards were a bigger deal in 2013 in Ultimate Ascent. And 2014 had 50 point penalties that were basically red card equivalents. This year was mild in comparison.

Can't ever forget the legendary pillar of FRC Game Design: the double red card in Logomotion.

Roboshant

02-05-2016, 09:11

I think the reason that we are focusing so much on fouls, is the fact that they were so influential in the outcome of champs.

mjc49

02-05-2016, 09:46

For me, there are a lot of highlights which I think this year will be remembered by. I'm so grateful to have been in the stands to watch 330's remarkable semifinal performance and share in the energy of that moment. Also Will i Am and a Finals tiebreaker decided by a single penalty (please change the first tie breaker to something not subjective).

Personally I will also remember being inspired when I felt burned out. I was inspired by my team who managed to repair a robot that was beat up and along with our alliance partners 2823, 3130 and 2415, take 2056, 1690, 3015 & 1405 to a tie-breaker on Tesla during Semi's.

PatEhrgott

02-05-2016, 11:11

For me, it will be remebered as the year I undoubtedly fell in love with robots. This is my sophomore year, so my first year with 708 was Recyle Rush which wasn't exactly the most exciting thing for newcomers.

This yeas was 708's most successful year and I'm proud to say I helped make it happen. Being involved from the design group, to manufactuting, and ultimately being the robots operator made the experience unique and I'll be forever greatful to my team for that. Being a finalist on Newton helped elevate the experience, despite going out.

Say what you will about red cards and field faults, but Will. I. Am. said it best. #tsimfd

Jess_Clore

02-05-2016, 15:21

I believe that only one team with Rhino treads made Einstein (5050). So I would agree that they usually not worth the trouble.
As a member of 5050 I can say that we did have some trouble with our treads. We had 2 3D printed pulleys, and 4 aluminium pulleys. They also were replaced after MSC. But overall they did a pretty decent job.

yonip

02-05-2016, 17:24

Escaping (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me6U_NBAf6g) robots (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JBopYnhjKQ) anyone?

Speaking of which, how frequent are escaping robots in FRC? I'd imagine the polycarb "walls" were added due to escaping robots at one point, but I didn't really hear of any since, until this year.

Also, definitely happy our team managed pneumatic wheels. Even though we did break all the teeth off a 14t aluminum gear :ahh:

Oblarg

02-05-2016, 18:21

Shutting down the "robot kids are total nerds" persona would go a long way into bringing robotics into the mainstream (see: Battlebots), and Mr. I Am is helping do just that.

Honestly, this makes me a bit wary.

The fact is, lots of people who enjoy robotics are nerds. While pushing for mainstream acceptance of STEM is obviously a laudable goal, I don't think we should do it at the expense of alienating the people who already like it. When we send the message "no, robotics isn't nerdy, it's actually cool!" we have to be careful that we're not tacitly sending the message that robotics would not be worth enjoying if it were "nerdy." That's equally damaging.

414cnewq

02-05-2016, 18:23

The year with the short robots.

EricH

02-05-2016, 18:44

Escaping (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me6U_NBAf6g) robots (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JBopYnhjKQ) anyone?

Speaking of which, how frequent are escaping robots in FRC? I'd imagine the polycarb "walls" were added due to escaping robots at one point, but I didn't really hear of any since, until this year.
"At one point" goes way back to the '03/'04 timeframe. I know at least one escaped in '03; I believe steel cables were used instead of Lexan shortly afterwards, and then the Lexan was used.

Theseusgoats

02-05-2016, 18:45

The year of no human player feeding station. No one directly and only fed from there, they atleast had to harvest the ball. The ball wasn't just placed in the robot

maxnz

02-05-2016, 18:54

"At one point" goes way back to the '03/'04 timeframe. I know at least one escaped in '03; I believe steel cables were used instead of Lexan shortly afterwards, and then the Lexan was used.

I don't suppose you'd have a video of that?

EricH

02-05-2016, 18:57

I don't suppose you'd have a video of that?
Nope, 'twas in a practice match back in '03. Video of practice matches is notoriously hard to find if it even exists, especially 13 years later.

maxnz

02-05-2016, 19:01

Nope, 'twas in a practice match back in '03. Video of practice matches is notoriously hard to find if it even exists, especially 13 years later.

I didn't think you would, mainly because its from 13 years ago.

Pault

02-05-2016, 19:45

Red cards were a bigger deal in 2013 in Ultimate Ascent. And 2014 had 50 point penalties that were basically red card equivalents. This year was mild in comparison.

In addition, regular penalties felt very fair this year. I found that the 5 points was usually just enough to compensate an alliance for the points they could have scored if the opposing alliance didn't commit that foul, plus a little extra to discourage teams from pushing the boundaries of committng a foul.