Split Champs assignment

[Chief Hedgehog]

Website for 2017-2018 Championships (http://www.firstinspires.org/2017-2018-first-championship-info)

Map for Split Champs (http://www.firstinspires.org/sites/default/files/uploads/championship/first-championship-maps-2017-2018.pdf)

[Steven Smith]

Was about to post myself... interesting the first email I got was an FLL team blast ;)

Going to Houston, but no surprises there since we're in Dallas.

[Chief Hedgehog]

Was about to post myself... interesting the first email I got was an FLL team blast ;)

Going to Houston, but no surprises there since we're in Dallas.

Same here. FLL came through first.

[Tim Sharp]

Just got an email from FIRST with the Championship update. Looks like a NE/ SW split.

http://www.firstinspires.org/2017-2018-first-championship-info

[generaldgibson]

Since I live in St. Louis, we'll obviously be staying here next year, but in 2018 and on we'll be going to Houston, which is interesting because Detroit is a shorter drive for us than Houston is.

[jlmcmchl]

Already posted.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=148233

[jimv]

Interesting that the assignments change between the years. I hope that FIRST will use this new opportunity to put championships in spots that previously would have made travel hard for half the world.


Edit: Now I understand why it switched: It's in Detroit in 2018, not St.Louis. So not very exceptional at all. But I still hope for my second point.

[PayneTrain]

Any visitation rights in the divorce?

[Chief Hedgehog]

Kind of bummed we miss out on the Cali and Texas teams.

[guniv]

The Kentucky - Tennessee split is interesting; if there's a move to districts around here soon, it was assumed it would be TN- KY because of KY's small number of teams.

[Chris is me]

If you thought divisions were uneven in depth and strength, wait until you see the rosters for the Championships...

Why are you doing this to us, FIRST?

[ATannahill]

Already posted.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=148233
That only links to the map, this gives more information.

[CalTran]

So, as a Kansas team, and Missouri resident, I'm not sure how I feel.

[Alyssa]

I just got sent the link from multiple people that I'm never going to see again, with messages along the lines of "Love you Lyss, gonna miss you at comp." I'm so devastated they're doing this to us.

[Chief Hedgehog]

Any visitation rights in the divorce?

They do include this paragraph on the Website (http://www.firstinspires.org/2017-2018-first-championship-info):

"As noted above, our primary goal is to ensure teams have the ability to attend their “home” Championship, which in most cases will be closer to where they live than their non-home Championship, thereby hopefully minimizing travel costs and transit time. However, we recognize that some teams may desire to attend their non-home Championship for a variety of reasons. Hence, we are working to finalize a mechanism whereby FRC teams can elect to attend their non-home Championship. However, to maintain balance between the two events, not every team who asks may be able to move to their “non-home” Championship. Specifically, FIRST may limit the quantity of teams allowed to change from one event to the other for various reasons. As noted above, details on this program are still being worked out and will be communicated at a future date. Due to the processes by which FTC, FLL and FLL Jr. teams qualify for Championship, those Programs will require teams to attend their home Championship."

[Tim Sharp]

So, as a Kansas team, and Missouri resident, I'm not sure how I feel.

Looks like you'll be in St Louis next year and Houston in 2018.

[Billfred]

Let's just get one megathread going:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148233

:)

[bearbot]

Darn looks likes will miss our friends on the west coast friends but we have 4 districts New England, MAR, Michigan and Cheaspeake

[Hallry]

Originally posted here: http://www.firstinspires.org/2017-2018-first-championship-info

2017 & 2018 FIRST Championships Information Update

More than 25 years ago, FIRST® became a game changer in the STEM world. Over the years, we’ve built an incredible culture with our K-12 FIRST Progression of Programs that celebrates kids’ accomplishments through high-quality, inspiring, life-changing experiences, the culmination of which is our FIRST Championship. FIRST is the oldest and largest youth robotics program in the world, and now we can deliver the FIRST Championship experience to many thousands more young people worldwide!

Geographic Proximity
When FIRST announced the dual FIRST Championship structure (http://www.firstinspires.org/about/first-enables-more-students-to-participate-in-life-changing-robotics-event-with-expansion-of-annual-championship) starting in 2017, our primary intent was to make the life-changing excitement and inspiration of the FIRST Championship more accessible, available, and affordable to more kids and teams.

To stay true to this goal, geographic proximity became our first-order determinant when assigning teams from a given state, province or country to a “home” Championship, especially when those geographic regions are viewed to be within a reasonable driving distance of one of the Championships. Within this constraint, we then tried, as best we could, to balance the number of teams that feed in to each Championship, recognizing that the number of teams in any given region varies and grows from year to year. Importantly, we then aligned geographic assignments across all four FIRST programs, so that participants, Mentors, and Sponsors who support teams across multiple FIRST programs in a given geographic region will be able to support all of those teams at a single FIRST Championship.

A committee of FIRST staff and community volunteers worked diligently to appropriately allocate geographic areas to the FIRST Championships for both 2017 and 2018, recognizing that the FIRST Championship will be in Houston, Texas, U.S. and St. Louis, Missouri, U.S. in 2017 and then in Houston, Texas, U.S. and Detroit, Michigan, U.S. in 2018-2020. Based on our learning and experience in 2017 and 2018, we may or may not make additional changes to the assignment structure in 2019 and beyond.

Teams will be assigned to attend a FIRST Championship (i.e., their “home” Championship) based on the location where the team is based and not the location of the event through which they qualify for Championship.

Please note that in the transition year of 2017, we recognize that there is not a lot of geographical separation between Houston and St. Louis. In 2018-2020, the geographical separation between the two Championships is greater, and there will be a significant improvement in average team drive time for North American teams. (As you already know, this metric would be even better had we been able to secure a more western-U.S. venue that met our needs. Unfortunately, that was not possible.)

A full slate of team and individual student awards will be presented at each of the FIRST Championships.

2017 & 2018 Geographic Assignment Maps (PDF) (http://www.firstinspires.org/sites/default/files/uploads/championship/first-championship-maps-2017-2018.pdf)

2017 Cities & Dates
As previously announced, the 2017 FIRST Championships will be held in Houston, Texas, U.S. on April 19-22, 2017 and in St. Louis, Missouri, U.S. on April 26-29, 2017. The 2017 geographic assignment map (http://www.firstinspires.org/sites/default/files/uploads/championship/first-championship-maps-2017-2018.pdf) (page one of PDF) delineates which states, provinces and countries will feed into each of the Houston and St. Louis Championships in 2017. Each 2017 Championship will host up to 400 FRC teams, 128 FTC teams, 108 FLL teams and 60 FLL Jr. teams.

For the FIRST Tech Challenge (FTC) program, which incorporates a Super Regional qualifying structure in the United States, states participating in the East and North FTC Super Regionals will compete at the St. Louis Championship, and states participating in West and South FTC Super Regionals will compete in the Houston Championship. To create cross-program alignment, Kentucky, which is currently in the South FTC Super Regional will move to the North FTC Super Regional in 2017 and beyond, and will compete in the St. Louis Championship in 2017.

The states of Kansas and Missouri are currently in the North FTC Super Regional. That will remain the same in 2017, and those two states will compete at the St. Louis Championship.

2018 Cities & Dates
As previously announced, the 2018 FIRST Championships will be held in Houston, Texas, U.S. on April 18-21, 2018 and in Detroit, Michigan, U.S. on April 25-28, 2018. The 2018 geographic assignment map (http://www.firstinspires.org/sites/default/files/uploads/championship/first-championship-maps-2017-2018.pdf#page=2) (page two of PDF) shows which states, provinces and countries will feed into each of the Houston and Detroit Championships in 2018. Again, each 2018 Championship will host up to 400 FRC teams, 128 FTC teams, 108 FLL teams and 60 FLL Jr. teams.

With the exception of Kansas and Missouri, all of the states, provinces and countries that are assigned to the St. Louis Championship in 2017 will transfer to the Detroit Championship in 2018. Teams from Kansas and Missouri will transition to attend the Houston Championship beginning in 2018.

To maintain alignment with the FIRST Tech Challenge (FTC) Super Regional advancement structure, the states of Kansas and Missouri will also move to the South FTC Super Regional in 2018 and beyond. States participating in the East and North FTC Super Regionals will compete at the Detroit Championship, and states participating in West and South FTC Super Regionals will compete in the Houston Championship.

Ability to attend your “non-home” FIRST Championship
As noted above, our primary goal is to ensure teams have the ability to attend their “home” Championship, which in most cases will be closer to where they live than their non-home Championship, thereby hopefully minimizing travel costs and transit time. However, we recognize that some teams may desire to attend their non-home Championship for a variety of reasons. Hence, we are working to finalize a mechanism whereby FRC teams can elect to attend their non-home Championship. However, to maintain balance between the two events, not every team who asks may be able to move to their “non-home” Championship. Specifically, FIRST may limit the quantity of teams allowed to change from one event to the other for various reasons. As noted above, details on this program are still being worked out and will be communicated at a future date. Due to the processes by which FTC, FLL and FLL Jr. teams qualify for Championship, those Programs will require teams to attend their home Championship.

Waitlist
The FRC and FTC programs will have Waitlist slots available for both Championships. The details for Waitlist slots, along with the number of earned slots assigned to each FRC District, each FTC Super Regional event and countries outside the U.S., and each FLL and FLLJr. region and Partner are still being worked out.

Culminating Event
In response to your questions and feedback from teams, we are exploring options to bring the top alliances from each Championship together at a high-caliber, potentially made-for-TV-type, post-season event. However, we do not currently have definitive plans for such an event, but continue to explore our options.


Posted May 5, 2016

[JohnFogarty]

Well the statistical odds of 2056 winning their next world championship just went WAAAAYYY up.

[mwmac]

Just for fun, I tried a rough cut of geographic assignments based on 2015 FRC registration numbers. The goal was to create an approximately even split of teams while trying to cluster around the two venues. 2908 FRC teams registered last year. Selecting the Dakotas, NE, MO, TN and NC and all states south and west of them, (and including AK, HI, western Canada and Mexico, Israel, Brazil, Australia, Germany, Turkey and China yields roughly 1320 +or- teams that could be assigned to the Houston venue or about 140 shy of an even split between venues.

I do not envy this committee or the task they will confront. Whatever their recommendation, it is likely to leave many dissatisfied. That said, I wish them well in their deliberations...

Looks like I guessed pretty close to how the split would go...in September!
Disappointed that HQ/BoD still have not come to grips with the opt out mechanism.

[Akash Rastogi]

Well, $@#$@#$@#$@#, now I'm sad.

[Billfred]

They do include this paragraph on the Website (http://www.firstinspires.org/2017-2018-first-championship-info):

"As noted above, our primary goal is to ensure teams have the ability to attend their “home” Championship, which in most cases will be closer to where they live than their non-home Championship, thereby hopefully minimizing travel costs and transit time. However, we recognize that some teams may desire to attend their non-home Championship for a variety of reasons. Hence, we are working to finalize a mechanism whereby FRC teams can elect to attend their non-home Championship. However, to maintain balance between the two events, not every team who asks may be able to move to their “non-home” Championship. Specifically, FIRST may limit the quantity of teams allowed to change from one event to the other for various reasons. As noted above, details on this program are still being worked out and will be communicated at a future date. Due to the processes by which FTC, FLL and FLL Jr. teams qualify for Championship, those Programs will require teams to attend their home Championship."

My hope is that they take the simplest solution here:

STEP 1: Team that wants to jump pays their registration for their home Championship.
STEP 2: They email FIRST (or select in TIMS, or whatever) to indicate they want to switch. They go on a first-come-first-served list. They know where they are in the list, and there's a button to give up their place on the list.
STEP 3: They wait for a team to perform Step 2 going in the other direction.
STEP 4: They're switched.

[jlmcmchl]

Darn looks likes will miss our friends on the west coast friends but we have 4 districts New England, MAR, Michigan and Cheaspeake

Don't forget Indiana, another incredibly strong district for it's size.

[Tim Sharp]

I'm interested in how the logistics of filling the CMP slots will work. I hadn't considered the fact that teams competing at the same regional/district event could earn spots at different championship events.
The possibility exists that one event could fill up faster than the other, resulting in a large difference in the # of wait list slots available in one event over the other,

[EricLeifermann]

Im sure I'm missing some but it looks like only 7 HOF/original teams in the Houston champs while all the rest are in the St. Louis/Detroit.

I get that FIRST can't help where the HOF and original team are from but the HOF area at champs are going to look even more sparce than they have; but with less teams they should be able to give the HOF teams the amount of space they used to/deserve to have....

[AndrewPospeshil]

Ability to attend your “non-home” FIRST Championship
As noted above, our primary goal is to ensure teams have the ability to attend their “home” Championship, which in most cases will be closer to where they live than their non-home Championship, thereby hopefully minimizing travel costs and transit time. However, we recognize that some teams may desire to attend their non-home Championship for a variety of reasons. Hence, we are working to finalize a mechanism whereby FRC teams can elect to attend their non-home Championship. However, to maintain balance between the two events, not every team who asks may be able to move to their “non-home” Championship. Specifically, FIRST may limit the quantity of teams allowed to change from one event to the other for various reasons. As noted above, details on this program are still being worked out and will be communicated at a future date. Due to the processes by which FTC, FLL and FLL Jr. teams qualify for Championship, those Programs will require teams to attend their home Championship.

I read this as "No, not every powerhouse team is going to go to the same Championship." Which, while a bummer, is probably for the best.

I'll probably be looking at a list of the Houston teams and crying softly to myself for the rest of the day.

[PayneTrain]

Well the statistical odds of 2056 winning their next world championship just went WAAAAYYY up.

Didn't it literally just plummet to zero?

[Lil' Lavery]

Naturally, I'm quite bummed we won't get to see many of the new Californian and PNW buddies we made while attending Championship this year. A lot of our pit neighbors are falling on the other side of the split, and that's a real downer. Getting to be in an aisle with so many top notch teams from the west was really awesome.

Selfishly, I'm pleased we have the later dates of Championship (and we get to hopefully return to STL next year).

On the other hand, knowing how much our students were impressed (and hopefully inspired) by the Championship experience, I'm hoping that FIRST's desired change comes to fruition. I'm hoping more teams will be able to experience Championship at a reasonable cost, and that both events will maintain the same level of inspiration at the singular event has achieved.

[SoccerTaco]

We are slated for Houston.

Knoxville to Detroit or St Louis, ~7.5 hours.
Knoxville to Houston, ~13.5 hours.

The Kentucky border isn't far from us - time to rent a P.O. Box for our home address?? :rolleyes:

[Ty Tremblay]

If the split happened in 2016, what would each CMP's OPRs look like?

[ATannahill]

Originally posted here: http://www.firstinspires.org/2017-2018-first-championship-info

Is there a way to move this post to the top of the thread? Or could the OP edit in this link so that the first post is not just the map?

[AdamHeard]

Southern champs for us!

[Lil' Lavery]

Im sure I'm missing some but it looks like only 7 HOF/original teams in the Houston champs while all the rest are in the St. Louis/Detroit.

I get that FIRST can't help where the HOF and original team are from but the HOF area at champs are going to look even more sparce than they have; but with less teams they should be able to give the HOF teams the amount of space they used to/deserve to have....

On the other hand, three of the past four (and four of the past six)Chairman's Winners will be on the Houston side of the divide.

[TDav540]

I read this as "No, not every powerhouse team is going to go to the same Championship." Which, while a bummer, is probably for the best.

I'll probably be looking at a list of the Houston teams and crying softly to myself for the rest of the day.

That's what I read into this too. As much as it could be super simple, they're probably going to make an overly complicated system to make sure the events are approximately balanced.

We're set to go to Houston, but I'm pretty excited for it. The event might not be as strong (or at least, that's what it seems like most people think), but it has almost every major international area, in addition to teams from both coasts of the US. That's going to be fun.

[Pauline Tasci]

Guess we will be in Houston, missing our East Coast, Canadian, and some International buddies.
I know I say this a lot,
but man FIRST really $@#$@#$@#$@#ed up with this call.

[Hallry]

So when's the next time you'll see your alliance partners from last week ever again?

[Chief Hedgehog]

Is there a way to move this post to the top of the thread? Or could the OP edit in this link so that the first post is not just the map?

Took care of it. Hope that helps!

[Drakxii]

Wow... it took them a year and special committee to come up with this? They haven't even decided on "non-home" champs selections or culminating event details.

Also I wish FIRST would stop focusing on the "affordable" of this when they are making TN and NC go to Houston instead of Detroit/St. Louis. Not to mention that Houston is one of the more expensive places to fly to in the US.

[Monochron]

Really disappointed that NC got assigned to Houston. The trip to Houston is around 200 miles further than to St. Louis and 400 miles further than to Detroit. We will be looking at significantly high bus/flight costs (not to mention possibly needing a third driver if bussing) as well as increased travel time.
I understand the need to balance the teams, but an additional 400 miles (or more from other places) is a massive burden to put on teams looking to grow.

[AdamHeard]

#TSINMFD

[Lil' Lavery]

So when's the next time you'll see your alliance partners from last week ever again?

MidKnight Mayhem for 1712 and 869 ;)

Actually, all of our alliance partners fell on the same side of the split as we did. And in the same pit aisle. It was a pretty easy alliance to find after alliance selection.

[FrankJ]

I read this as "No, not every powerhouse team is going to go to the same Championship." Which, while a bummer, is probably for the best.

It will be interesting to see if the option to change championships will weigh "Power Factor" or HOF status. Maybe only teams with OPR in a certain range will be allowed to switch?

[Theseusgoats]

Pardon my canadian geography, but are 1114, 2056, and 1241 going to the St.Louis/ Detroit champs?

[Michael Corsetto]

Didn't it literally just plummet to zero?

Correct.

We'll be saving our energy for 2021. See you then :rolleyes:

-Mike

[Lil' Lavery]

Pardon my canadian geography, but are 1114, 2056, and 1241 going to the St.Louis/ Detroit champs?

Yes. All three of those teams are from Ontario, which is in the Eastern half of Canada.

[Theseusgoats]

Do you know about 610?

[Akash Rastogi]

Do you know about 610?

http://www.thebluealliance.com/
http://www.mapsofworld.com/north-america/

Search for whatever team you want, check it against the map.

[mwmac]

"However, to maintain balance between the two events, not every team who asks may be able to move to their “non-home” Championship. Specifically, FIRST may limit the quantity of teams allowed to change from one event to the other for various reasons."

I am willing to bet that the terms "balance" and "various reasons" will effectively bar e.g. 1114, 2056, 33, 67 from opting to go south in the same year (or 254, 1678, 118, 148) regardless of when each team initiates the opt out mechanism. Subjective granting of opt out requests will rule....

Was hoping for much better.

[Tim Sharp]

Do you know about 610?

They are also from Toronto/Eastern Canada

[Rick]

Correct.

We'll be saving our energy for 2021. See you then :rolleyes:

-Mike

The problem I see with a potential #1champs in 2021 is will FIRST ever take back any of the 800 world championship spots? Could a venue hold an 800 team championship? To have a single championship I think 600 is the top end.

Going 4 years with 2 champs is going to leave a generation of FRC with the expectation of 800 teams going to 2 champs. The current generation plus the veteran mentors are not happy now - but what happens in 2021 when it doesn't combine into one championship? Will anyone expect the "old timers" care?

[Ty Tremblay]

Correct.

We'll be saving our energy for 2021. See you then :rolleyes:

-Mike

Behold as the mighty 1678 retreats to its cave for hibernation.

[waialua359]

Im sure I'm missing some but it looks like only 7 HOF/original teams in the Houston champs while all the rest are in the St. Louis/Detroit.

I get that FIRST can't help where the HOF and original team are from but the HOF area at champs are going to look even more sparce than they have; but with less teams they should be able to give the HOF teams the amount of space they used to/deserve to have....
If we get our wish, it will be down to at most 6 teams unfortunately.

[Jared Russell]

Correct.

We'll be saving our energy for 2021. See you then :rolleyes:

-Mike

Or, hypothetically, you could save your energy (and money) and skip the official half-championship in favor of an IRI-on-steroids type de-facto World Championship.

Hypothetically.

[sdangelo]

I find it interesting that each ChampionSplit will have 400 FRC teams (as opposed to this year's 600) but the full current amount of other program teams (60 FllJr, 108 FLL, and 128 FTC). FIRST wasn't kidding or exaggerating this time when they said they were going to expand the other programs too.

[Zyrano]

I would have thought there would have been a time element to this, ie, if you won a week 6 regional or a district championship on week 7, how do you logically get a robot and team to Houston in like 4 days?

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Or, hypothetically, you could save your energy (and money) and skip the official half-championship in favor of an IRI-on-steroids type de-facto World Championship.

Hypothetically.
Wow, I'd love to learn more about that!

[MARS_James]

So when's the next time you'll see your alliance partners from last week ever again?

3620: 2021 at the earliest
3627: 2017
3360: 2021 at the earliest

Unless we get into IRI who I think have a tougher selection process starting next year

Also how will district slots be allocated, by 400 or 800?

[TheJoe]

Correct.

We'll be saving our energy for 2021. See you then :rolleyes:

-Mike

Michael might be on to something here.

What if, Circa 2025, we have North-west, North-East, South-West, and South-East Championships, and the winners of each all converge on STL to play on the Dean Kamen Field for the mega championship? :rolleyes:

[pmangels17]

Well, it was really nice when I went to CMP in 2012 to seem 16, 79, 100, 115, 118, 148, 179, 180, 192, 233, 254, 330, 359, 842, 971, 973, 987, 1323, 1538, 1540, 1671, 1678, 1912, 1983, 3476, and many others. Maybe in a few years I might get to share an event with y'all again.

[peirvine]

The problem I see with a potential #1champs in 2021 is will FIRST ever take back any of the 800 world championship spots? Could a venue hold an 800 team championship? To have a single championship I think 600 is the top end.

Going 4 years with 2 champs is going to leave a generation of FRC with the expectation of 800 teams going to 2 champs. The current generation plus the veteran mentors are not happy now - but what happens in 2021 when it doesn't combine into one championship? Will anyone expect the "old timers" care?

They could potentially run it like they do FTC - where they have 4 "super regionals" which then feed into the World Championship again. I think they had something like that drafted up in 2011 but I could be mistaken.

[Hot_Copper_Frog]

As much as I love my fellow Michiganders...the Detroit championship is going to feel a whole lot like MSC.

I'm going to lobby hard for the frogs to travel to Hawaii for some fresh faces starting in 2018.

[ehochstein]

They could potentially run it like they do FTC - where they have 4 "super regionals" which then feed into the World Championship again. I think they had something like that drafted up in 2011 but I could be mistaken.

Clearly, this is just the beginning of FIRST's ultimate goal of having 2 Super Regional competitions and 1 World Championship.*

*I have no clue if this is actually FIRST's goal or not.

[WCBC]

Wow, I'd love to learn more about that!

Cosigned!

[Tim Sharp]

Or, hypothetically, you could save your energy (and money) and skip the official half-championship in favor of an IRI-on-steroids type de-facto World Championship.

Hypothetically.

I wonder how many teams will make the decision to forego the extra expense and hassle of the new championship format in favor of an extra regional or district event. Especially since the prestige of earning a spot in the CMP has now been cut in half.

I know it's a possibility for us.

[TheJoe]

As much as I love my fellow Michiganders...the Detroit championship is going to feel a whole lot like MSC.

I'm going to lobby hard for the frogs to travel to Hawaii for some fresh faces starting in 2018.

Some of our older mentors are joking that it will be like the olden days when we used to compete at the Great Lakes Regional with you all :]

[Akash Rastogi]

I wonder how many teams will make the decision to forego the extra expense and hassle of the new championship format in favor of an extra regional or district event. Especially since the prestige of earning a spot in the CMP has now been cut in half.

I know it's a possibility for us.

For us District teams, we will continue to hope more areas will move to our format and inter-district play with be more prevalent (Canada perhaps). If this happens, I don't really see us justifiably playing at a half-champs.

[Hot_Copper_Frog]

Some of our older mentors are joking that it will be like the olden days when we used to compete at the Great Lakes Regional with you all :]

I mean, it is kind of like GLR on steroids, if you look at the map.

[BrendanB]

For us District teams, we will continue to hope more areas will move to our format and inter-district play with be more prevalent (Canada perhaps). If this happens, I don't really see us justifiably playing at a half-champs.

Especially depending on the format. A 400 team event split into eight divisions is incredibly weak with so many teams qualify off of the waitlist.

I'd rather save some cash and either play at a regional, another district, or travel during the off-season.

I know for several teams, winning their district Championship is their current goal and has already had a more competitive atmosphere than Champs. Why even go a weak Championship?

[pmangels17]

Wait, here's the real question in all this: Is Will.I.Am going to come to both Championship events, or will only half of FIRST get their championship event overshadowed by needless controversy? (As if Half-Champs isn't controversial enough)

[techtiger1]

For us District teams, we will continue to hope more areas will move to our format and inter-district play with be more prevalent (Canada perhaps). If this happens, I don't really see us justifiably playing at a half-champs.

This, I'm not really at all interested in attending the championships right now. I'll go to Houston our home championship once because I have never been there but after that idk.

[RoboChair]

I would like to see FIRST push for everyone having districts instead of regionals(sparse international teams I have no current solution for). Everyone gets at least 2 events, those that do well get a Championship experience at the District level champs, and the best of the best at District Champs goes to the World Champs. The district model gives FIRST absolute control over team attendance numbers for Champs, bring X number of teams.

[TheBoulderite]

Our alliance partners on Carson this year were 525, 4028, and 3352. We will never see any of them again. :(

Thanks for a great run, guys! Good luck next year!

[Rivet Man]

Do you know about 610?

Hi Theseusgoats,

If you haven't heard, and I believe others have pointed out. There is a website called TheBlueAlliance.com that has a bunch of fascinating information on teams!

I've done the hard part and searched for this team 610 (who can do a hanging shot!) for you on TheBlueAlliance. The link is here http://www.thebluealliance.com/team/610.

Now if I'm reading the page correctly, it says that they are from Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Which as far as I've ever heard is the only place people in Canada are from (that CN tower is really tall! I went up it once a long time ago and let me tell you that glass floor is something).

Best Regards,
RM

[jajabinx124]

Our alliance partners on Carson this year were 525, 4028, and 3352. We will never see any of them again. :(

Thanks for a great run, guys! Good luck next year!

We won't ever get to see our 2122 Tator buddys again either..

[FrankJ]

Wait, here's the real question in all this: Is Will.I.Am going to come to both Championship events, or will only half of FIRST get their championship event overshadowed by needless controversy? (As if Half-Champs isn't controversial enough)

Actually this is primarily a controversy on CD. I had to work so didn't get to go to Champs and would not have heard about Will's statement without CD. Actually I probably would not have heard it at Champs either since my tolerance for large crowds & stadium seating would have be way overstretched by the time he spoke. :]

[TheJoe]

Big News! And Season Thoughts (Later...)

Written by Frank Merrick, 2015 MAY 05.

Big News!

In case you haven’t heard, we’ve released information on the 2017/2018 ‘home’ Championship assignments, along with information on a few things still in the works. Check it out here.

Season Thoughts

We’ve got some thoughts to pass along about the 2016 season, but as we expect most folks in the community will be buzzing about those 2017/2018 Championships assignments, we’ll save those for later.

Hope everyone who attended Championship made it home safely and has had a chance to get a little rest!

Frank


I think we may be forgetting abut this. Hallry shared it in a different thread earlier. I wonder what Frank will have to say about 2016?

[MikLast]

Guess this is relevant again.

Spokane to Houston: 2,118 miles
Spokane to Detroit: 2,071 miles

Spokane to St. Louis: 1,805 miles

I thought i heard something about cost saving?

[Basel A]

I would like to see FIRST push for everyone having districts instead of regionals(sparse international teams I have no current solution for). Everyone gets at least 2 events, those that do well get a Championship experience at the District level champs, and the best of the best at District Champs goes to the World Champs. The district model gives FIRST absolute control over team attendance numbers for Champs, bring X number of teams.

I suggested exactly this to Don Bossi at MSC 2015. He didn't seem too keen on the idea. I think that was because FIRST has no involvement in planning district CMPs (and probably doesn't want to step on anybody's toes).

I mean, it is kind of like GLR on steroids, if you look at the map.

Exactly what I'm looking for in a World Championship /s

[Nathan Streeter]

Largely unsurprising decision... seems reasonable enough. This seemed like the default decision once the split championships was announced. A little saddening, as this adds the extra note of finality.

It would be interesting to see which CMP would have more teams from the 2016 CMP elims, Einstein, and which would have higher OPRs.

So, the next big question for me, is with 400 teams how many divisions will they have? 100 team divisions were awful for the integrity of the rankings and logistics, but a 50 team division would seem pretty weak and shallow... particularly when the CMP team lists are already being dilluted by being split!

[AndrewPospeshil]

As much as I love my fellow Michiganders...the Detroit championship is going to feel a whole lot like MSC.

I'm going to lobby hard for the frogs to travel to Hawaii for some fresh faces starting in 2018.

>tfw class of 2017

They could potentially run it like they do FTC - where they have 4 "super regionals" which then feed into the World Championship again. I think they had something like that drafted up in 2011 but I could be mistaken.

I would like to see FIRST push for everyone having districts instead of regionals(sparse international teams I have no current solution for). Everyone gets at least 2 events, those that do well get a Championship experience at the District level champs, and the best of the best at District Champs goes to the World Champs. The district model gives FIRST absolute control over team attendance numbers for Champs, bring X number of teams.

I think this is the end goal - and it it's not, I think it should be. If more and more regions move to Districts (lets say, 85% of FRC teams), then FRC could operate much like the FTC Super Regional model, except DCMPs are the the Super Regionals. This way, all teams will get 1-3 small events (Districts/Qualifiers), one big event (DCMP/Super Regional*), and one (hopefully singular) Champs. This way, mid-tier teams get an opportunity to advance to additional levels of competition, while perennial powerhouses get the satisfaction of an "undiluted" CMP.

*yeah, I know FTC has State Champs in most/all places. imo four levels of competition is too much

[Mike Starke]

Based on the Final Top 25 (http://www.frctop25.com/2016-rankings/) for this year...

13 of those teams would attend Houston next year, 12 in St. Louis.

Out of the Top 10 of those teams, 6 would compete in Houston, 4 in St. Louis.

Definitely more balanced than I originally thought it would have been. Definitely still absolutely hate the idea though.

[Andrew Schreiber]

[expletive]

[barn34]

Well, 330, it was a hell of a ride this weekend, but it looks like we won't have a chance to team up again for quite a while. At least not at an official event, anyways. We kind of already acknowledged that a bit in St. Louis, but it still sucks to see it made official. You guys are awesome. Best of luck. We'll be rooting for you in Houston!

[plnyyanks]

...those that do well get a Championship experience at the District level champs

I suggested exactly this to Don Bossi at MSC 2015. He didn't seem too keen on the idea. I think that was because FIRST has no involvement in planning district CMPs (and probably doesn't want to step on anybody's toes).


I think this is the end goal - and it it's not, I think it should be. If more and more regions move to Districts (lets say, 85% of FRC teams), then FRC could operate much like the FTC Super Regional model, except DCMPs are the the Super Regionals. This way, all teams will get 1-3 small events (Districts/Qualifiers), one big event (DCMP/Super Regional*), and one (hopefully singular) Champs.

This is the approach I'd like to see as well. Someone earlier in the thread referenced an old slide from 2011 that included this vision of FRC (note that none of this was ever official in any way)
http://i.imgur.com/4znErpZ.jpg

But District Champs aren't to that point yet either. Like Basel said, FIRST and their event management companies don't run district champs - it's all the local people. And I don't know of any DCMP that runs conferences and has all the flashy lights like CMP does. As far as international/regional teams go, I though this thread from last year (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138295) was a great start on the problem. Maybe as more areas move to districts, FIRST's event planning people have some more bandwidth they can apply to running District Championships.

Of course, none of this is anywhere near official, but if someone asked me where I envisioned FRC in a few years, this is what I would tell them.

[Cothron Theiss]

I'm very confused as to why Tennessee is going to Houston and why Kentucky and Tennessee aren't going to the same place. The Smoky Mountains Regional is the TNKY Regional, because Kentucky and Tennessee don't have enough teams to support their own Regionals (yet). I'm really disappointed that they are planning on splitting a Regional practically in two. Also, Knoxville is closer to Detroit. If anyone has information on why Tennessee is going to Houston, I'd love to hear it.

[BrendanB]

I'm very confused as to why Tennessee is going to Houston and why Kentucky and Tennessee aren't going to the same place. The Smoky Mountains Regional is the TNKY Regional, because Kentucky and Tennessee don't have enough teams to support their own Regionals (yet). I'm really disappointed that they are planning on splitting a Regional practically in two. Also, Knoxville is closer to Detroit. If anyone has information on why Tennessee is going to Houston, I'd love to hear it.

Keep in mind that the concentration of teams is for the most part closer to Detroit than Houston however not everyone can go to the Championship that is closer to them.

[Cothron Theiss]

Keep in mind that the concentration of teams is for the most part closer to Detroit than Houston however not everyone can go to the Championship that is closer to them.

True. But the distance is not as much of a concern for me. I'm more wondering why they would split up a Regional in this way.

[Bob Steele]

All I really have to say is this looks quite like the old 400 team version of champs times two. To fit everyone in (including the FLL's and FTC) that probably means 100 team divisions.

So, if you thought a 600 team CMP with 75 team divisions was watered down and saw how your "random" assignment of 10 matches could affect your potential to rank high during the qualification matches, think again ... just add another 25 teams.... how do they get there? Are they from waitlist? Do they add some other type of qualifying position at Regionals? Do they go even deeper into the Districts?

I hope that the powers that be look quite hard at this issue next year when they figure out how teams get points for qualifications.

I will miss seeing all of our new and old friends from the East Coast and Canada.

Good luck to you all!!

[Citrus Dad]

Well the statistical odds of 2056 winning their next world championship just went WAAAAYYY up.

It will be just another (Super) Regional to add to their new streak...:(

[sdangelo]

It would be interesting to see which CMP would have more teams from the 2016...Einstein...

I'll try the rest of that statement later, but this one I can do by hand.
St. Louis: 19
Houston 2017: 13

Detroit: 18
Houston 2018+: 14

[Whatever]

Seems like most of the non-US/Canada teams are going to Houston.

[Citrus Dad]

For us District teams, we will continue to hope more areas will move to our format and inter-district play with be more prevalent (Canada perhaps). If this happens, I don't really see us justifiably playing at a half-champs.

I think this will become a growing problem for FIRST over time. I could envision where the powerhouse teams agree to meet at a late season regional (e.g., SVR) or even having a small invitational a la Chezy Champs to settle the matter in April. That would make it harder for an outsider to break in.

[Poseidon5817]

Man, this s#&$ is not m-#+%+@&$ing dope.

[Michael Hill]

having a small invitational a la Chezy Champs to settle the matter in April.

IRI?

[Citrus Dad]

Wow, I'd love to learn more about that!

Don't you guys talk to each other??? :)

[Citrus Dad]

IRI?

It has to be during the school year not the summer for logistical reasons.

[Michael Corsetto]

Based on the Final Top 25 (http://www.frctop25.com/2016-rankings/) for this year...

13 of those teams would attend Houston next year, 12 in St. Louis.

Out of the Top 10 of those teams, 6 would compete in Houston, 4 in St. Louis.

Definitely more balanced than I originally thought it would have been. Definitely still absolutely hate the idea though.

While maybe balanced at the top, I expect Houston to have a much weaker field that STL/Detroit. North 1/2 CMP has 5 (6?) strong districts, while South 1/2 CMP gets PNW and GA, as well as many regional qualifying teams. Additionally, I expect Houston to welcome more teams off of the waitlist than North 1/2 CMP will.

That, coupled with a later weekend, means North 1/2 CMP will likely be more competitive and harder to get in to.

Bummer :(

-Mike

[Citrus Dad]

One surprise to me--that they didn't set up a 4 or 5 "area" approach that carves out the 2 coasts and international teams, and rotates those between the two Super Regionals. It will make no cost difference to the West Coast teams where they go, and I suspect the situation may be similar for East Coast teams given that most fly to competition. (Air fare is not directly distance based.)

[Hot_Copper_Frog]

One surprise to me--that they didn't set up a 4 or 5 "area" approach that carves out the 2 coasts and international teams, and rotates those between the two Super Regionals. It will make no cost difference to the West Coast teams where they go, and I suspect the situation may be similar for East Coast teams given that most fly to competition. (Air fare is not directly distance based.)


Well, they've only announced through 2018, but I believe the Houston/Detroit set-up will continue for several years. So maybe they'll change up the location assignments for 2019 after seeing how things shake out?

[nuclearnerd]

I've already gone on record that I support* the move to bring more teams to champs, even if it means a championsplit. As much as we all love to see the best meet the best here, most students in FRC don't get anywhere near to the best teams from far away, so they won't care as much as we do. So shed a tear for the friends we'll miss, then welcome all of the new entrants!

That said, I am intrigued by the last paragraph of the announcement. It would be cool to have the culminating event be a televised, professionally produced TV series. You could have the Einstein finals be a best-of-7 series, with a few hours between each match to make repairs, changes, and work on strategy and be interviewed. It would be boring to watch live, but that wouldn't be the intent. Instead, the 8 hour day would be condensed into one or more 1/2 hour episodes for a mass audience, the same way they do for Battle Bots. The format works - lots more people around here know about Battle Bots than FRC, even though FRC is a vastly bigger program. Maybe FIRST could entice the same producers...

*Maybe a better way to put it is that I don't oppose the split. If there were a sane way to have 800 teams in one venue, and make things cheaper, I'd probably support that instead.

[Mr V]

This is the approach I'd like to see as well. Someone earlier in the thread referenced an old slide from 2011 that included this vision of FRC (note that none of this was ever official in any way)
http://i.imgur.com/4znErpZ.jpg

But District Champs aren't to that point yet either. Like Basel said, FIRST and their event management companies don't run district champs - it's all the local people. And I don't know of any DCMP that runs conferences and has all the flashy lights like CMP does. As far as international/regional teams go, I though this thread from last year (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138295) was a great start on the problem. Maybe as more areas move to districts, FIRST's event planning people have some more bandwidth they can apply to running District Championships.

Of course, none of this is anywhere near official, but if someone asked me where I envisioned FRC in a few years, this is what I would tell them.

It is interesting looking back on that and the progress that was made to that goal. A number of areas are finally up and running more or less per that document but a couple are just portions of the original plan.

All I really have to say is this looks quite like the old 400 team version of champs times two. To fit everyone in (including the FLL's and FTC) that probably means 100 team divisions.

So, if you thought a 600 team CMP with 75 team divisions was watered down and saw how your "random" assignment of 10 matches could affect your potential to rank high during the qualification matches, think again ... just add another 25 teams.... how do they get there? Are they from waitlist? Do they add some other type of qualifying position at Regionals? Do they go even deeper into the Districts?

I hope that the powers that be look quite hard at this issue next year when they figure out how teams get points for qualifications.

I will miss seeing all of our new and old friends from the East Coast and Canada.

Good luck to you all!!

I bet that the district allocations will stay the current percentage basis and that will account for some of the extra space. The fact that there are currently less district teams at the tan states event means that could mean a potentially large differential in the % of teams at each event via the lottery.

[Koko Ed]

Well the statistical odds of 2056 winning their next world championship just went WAAAAYYY up.

Considering they're "Championship" ( I refuse to call it a championship. I just call it Superegional North) is full of FiM, MAR, NE District and Chesapeake District team plus teams from Ontario I think they're still in for a big fight.

[Jaci]

<unpopular opinion>

2 Champs is great for teams competing internationally.

As an Australian Team, going to Houston instead of St Louis is going to make it multitudes easier for us to attend champs. Since we have a layover in Dallas Fort-Worth, it's going to take us less flight time to get to champs, and because of this cost-per-student is going to go down by multiple thousands of dollars.

I hate to say it but a lot of the opinions in this thread complaining about 2 Champs are only really from the POV of a team managed and run in the US, and to see the international teams from Australia, Israel, Brazil, China, Taiwan and more neglected in the conversation is kind of disheartening.

I know the split presents some issues with "fairness" of each Championship, but I won't get into the politics of that nor reveal my position on the matter. I'm simply here to put in my own point to show that the split is actually helpful in some way, especially to teams internationally who often find it hard to gather the money and support to make it to championships.

</unpopular opinion>

[dag0620]

<unpopular opinion>

2 Champs is great for teams competing internationally.

As an Australian Team, going to Houston instead of St Louis is going to make it multitudes easier for us to attend champs. Since we have a layover in Dallas Fort-Worth, it's going to take us less flight time to get to champs, and because of this cost-per-student is going to go down by multiple thousands of dollars.

I hate to say it but a lot of the opinions in this thread complaining about 2 Champs are only really from the POV of a team managed and run in the US, and to see the international teams from Australia, Israel, Brazil, China, Taiwan and more neglected in the conversation is kind of disheartening.

I know the split presents some issues with "fairness" of each Championship, but I won't get into the politics of that nor reveal my position on the matter. I'm simply here to put in my own point to show that the split is actually helpful in some way, especially to teams internationally who often find it hard to gather the money and support to make it to championships.

</unpopular opinion>


Well one thing I did note, was that outside of Canada, all of the international countries with FRC Regional events got assigned to Houston. I find that an interesting im balance.

Thoughts?

[MARS_James]

Well one thing I did note, was that outside of Canada, all of the international countries with FRC Regional events got assigned to Houston. I find that an interesting im balance.

Thoughts?

Europe is assigned St.louis/Detroit

[Madison]

A nascent thought that popped in my head after seeing this announcement --

It seems that most teams from outside North America will be competing in Houston (e.g., Israel, Turkey, mainland China, Australia).

Will teams competing at that event have a more difficult time effectively scouting and understanding the competition and level of play of the teams that can expect to see given the geographic and lingual barriers than will teams competing at the other CMP event?

Teams from Europe seem to be both fewer in number and more likely to speak English, I'd guess.

[Koko Ed]

As much as I love my fellow Michiganders...the Detroit championship is going to feel a whole lot like MSC.

I'm going to lobby hard for the frogs to travel to Hawaii for some fresh faces starting in 2018.

359 is always telling me Hawaii wants mainland teams to come and play.

[Mr V]

I've already gone on record that I support* the move to bring more teams to champs, even if it means a championsplit. As much as we all love to see the best meet the best here, most students in FRC don't get anywhere near to the best teams from far away, so they won't care as much as we do. So shed a tear for the friends we'll miss, then welcome all of the new entrants!

That said, I am intrigued by the last paragraph of the announcement. It would be cool to have the culminating event be a televised, professionally produced TV series. You could have the Einstein finals be a best-of-7 series, with a few hours between each match to make repairs, changes, and work on strategy and be interviewed. It would be boring to watch live, but that wouldn't be the intent. Instead, the 8 hour day would be condensed into one or more 1/2 hour episodes for a mass audience, the same way they do for Battle Bots. The format works - lots more people around here know about Battle Bots than FRC, even though FRC is a vastly bigger program. Maybe FIRST could entice the same producers...

*Maybe a better way to put it is that I don't oppose the split. If there were a sane way to have 800 teams in one venue, and make things cheaper, I'd probably support that instead.

A TV special or mini series would be a great way to make it loud.

A start would be a battle of champions with a best of 7 or at least a best of 5 so they can fill an hour.

Ultimately though a series that covered all the finals of both CMPs and then culminated in that best of 7 or 5 would be better. The one problem I see with that is that the results of the two CMPS would have to be known well in advance of the Ultimate CMP, so that could dampen the interest of the public.

Another option would be to bring say all 4 teams that made it to the semi-finals from both events and have them play a new round of finals. You could have a hope of containing the results of a event that happens in a TV studio environment. Better suspense equals better ratings equals more people exposed to and learning about FIRST.

[GuyM142]

A nascent thought that popped in my head after seeing this announcement --

It seems that most teams from outside North America will be competing in Houston (e.g., Israel, Turkey, mainland China, Australia).

Will teams competing at that event have a more difficult time effectively scouting and understanding the competition and level of play of the teams that can expect to see given the geographic and lingual barriers than will teams competing at the other CMP event?

Teams from Europe seem to be both fewer in number and more likely to speak English, I'd guess.

That's true about the scouting, this year we had to do our scouting at the hotel lobby and it wasn't optimal.
But the difference depends on if the divisions are going to be published for both Champs at the same time or will St.Louis/Detroit get their divisions later.

I think that because of the lack of regional competitions in Europe the chance to see a European team in champs is lower. To compare, Israel and Australia for example will definitely send at least 6 teams each.

Is there any statistical data about the international teams in each of the champs?

[Nuttyman54]

<unpopular opinion>

2 Champs is great for teams competing internationally.

As an Australian Team, going to Houston instead of St Louis is going to make it multitudes easier for us to attend champs. Since we have a layover in Dallas Fort-Worth, it's going to take us less flight time to get to champs, and because of this cost-per-student is going to go down by multiple thousands of dollars.

I hate to say it but a lot of the opinions in this thread complaining about 2 Champs are only really from the POV of a team managed and run in the US, and to see the international teams from Australia, Israel, Brazil, China, Taiwan and more neglected in the conversation is kind of disheartening.

I know the split presents some issues with "fairness" of each Championship, but I won't get into the politics of that nor reveal my position on the matter. I'm simply here to put in my own point to show that the split is actually helpful in some way, especially to teams internationally who often find it hard to gather the money and support to make it to championships.

</unpopular opinion>

I appreciate your insight here, however this mostly stems from St. Louis not being a large US hub. Even for teams in the US, coming from the west coast usually involves a layover through Las Vegas, Houston or even Atlanta. There are many ways FIRST could have improved the travel situation for international AND domestic teams without splitting championship. Atlanta was far cheaper/easier for west coast teams than St. Louis was, and Houston should be an improvement as well.

[Jaci]

Well one thing I did note, was that outside of Canada, all of the international countries with FRC Regional events got assigned to Houston. I find that an interesting im balance.

Thoughts?

In terms of travel time and distance, this seems great (after a preliminary look at how flights transfer, since DFW and LAX are the most common entrypoints to the US, at least from Oceania).

If you're talking in terms of performance-balance, sure, there will be a bias between the championships just because of the way the stats work out. But, from what I've seen after talking to many international teams and even observed from my own teams, merely going to championships is an experience that is unparalleled. This year, 0 out of the 6 Australian teams attending champs made it to their division's playoffs, but we still ended up leaving the competition happy and inspired. Seeing the looks on these kids faces showed me that it's not ALL about the competition, and maybe this whole "getting more kids to champs" is a good idea.

Now's a good time to reiterate that this is my opinion, and may not reflect that of my teams or FIRST internationally. Again, the opinion I'm presenting is purely focused on travel logistics and not the performance split between the 2 Champs.

[Michael Corsetto]

Well one thing I did note, was that outside of Canada, all of the international countries with FRC Regional events got assigned to Houston. I find that an interesting im balance.

Thoughts?

North 1/2 CMP is the more impacted 1/2 CMP event. Madison posted last year that almost 1/2 of the entire FRC community is within driving distance of Detroit.

It makes sense that countries with a strong FRC presence are sent to South 1/2 CMP. There just isn't room at North 1/2 CMP. Europe, etc, are left at North 1/2 CMP just to give the event some international flair, with little substance. I would expect maybe 3 teams from outside the US/Canada at the 400 Team North 1/2 CMP. FIRST is trying to have their cake, cut it in half, and eat it too.

South 1/2 CMP will be much more well represented on an international level, percentage wise.

-Mike

[NoahTappen]

Any estimate on the amount of Michigan teams predicted to attend a Championship in 2017? I feel there will most likely be more Michigan teams at a Championship than teams at MSC, If so what is the point of having MSC as a step before the championship?

[Michael Hill]

While maybe balanced at the top, I expect Houston to have a much weaker field that STL/Detroit. North 1/2 CMP has 5 (6?) strong districts, while South 1/2 CMP gets PNW and GA, as well as many regional qualifying teams. Additionally, I expect Houston to welcome more teams off of the waitlist than North 1/2 CMP will.

That, coupled with a later weekend, means North 1/2 CMP will likely be more competitive and harder to get in to.

Bummer :(

-Mike

Yay....us non-district teams in the St. Louis Championship get hosed again....

Here's some interesting numbers...*
For the St. Louis Championship:
Total Number of District CMP Slots: 166
Total Number of Regional CMP Slots: 115
Total Allocated CMP Slots (District + Regional): 281
Total Number of Waitlist Spots: 119

For the Houston Championship:
Total Number of District CMP Slots: 52
Total Number of Regional CMP Slots: 150
Total Allocated CMP Slots (District + Regional): 202
Total Waitlist Spots: 198

* - Regional numbers were computed by lumping the host city of a regional. I know it's not exact since regionals hosted in states on the border of the CMP demarcation line will generally host teams from the other CMP region.

[sdangelo]

It would be interesting to see which CMP would have more teams from the 2016 CMP elims...


import json
import urllib2

BASE_URL = 'http://www.thebluealliance.com/api/v2/'
APP_HEADER = 'X-TBA-App-Id'
APP_ID = 'sdangelo:splitchamps:v0.1'

event_codes = ['arc', 'cars', 'carv', 'cur', 'gal', 'hop', 'new', 'tes']

def fetch_endpoint(endpoint):
#Checks Blue Alliance for data
full_url = BASE_URL + endpoint
url = urllib2.Request(full_url, headers={APP_HEADER: APP_ID, 'User-agent': 'Mozilla/5.0'})
response = urllib2.urlopen(url)
return json.loads(response.read())

def get_teams(event_key):
#builds list of all teams
teams = []
event = fetch_endpoint("event/2016"+ str(event_key))
for alliance in event["alliances"]:
for team in alliance["picks"]:
teams.append(str(team))
return teams

def get_locations(teams_list):
stl = []
hous = []
allTeams = []
for team in teams_list:
data = fetch_endpoint("team/" + team)
if data["country_name"] == "USA":
s = data["region"]
if s == "Maine" or s == "Vermont" or s == "New Hampshire" or s == "Massachusetts" or\
s == "Connecticut" or s == "Rhode Island" or s == "New York" or s == "Pennsylvania"\
or s == "New Jersey" or s == "Delaware" or s == "Maryland" or s == "District of Columbia"\
or s == "Virginia" or s == "West Virginia" or s == "Kentucky" or s == "Ohio" or\
s == "Michigan" or s == "Indiana" or s == "Illinois" or s == "Wisconsin" or\
s == "Minnesota" or s == "Iowa" or s == "Missouri" or s == "Kansas" or\
s == "Nebraska" or s == "South Dakota" or s == "North Dakota":
stl.append(data["team_number"])
else:
hous.append(data["team_number"])
elif data["country_name"] == "Canada":
p = data["region"]
if p == "Ontario" or p == "Quebec" or p == "Newfoundland and Laborador"\
or p == "Manitoba" or p == "Nunavit":
stl.append(data["team_number"])
else:
hous.append(data["team_number"])
else:
c = data["country_name"]
if c == "Mexico" or c == "Haiti" or c == "Dominican Republic" or\
c == "Ecuador" or c == "Columbia" or c == "Peru" or c == "Chile"\
or c == "Brazil" or c == "South Africa" or c == "Israel" or\
c == "Egypt" or c == "Jordan" or c == "Lebanon" or c == "Turkey"\
or c == "Kuwait" or c == "United Arab Emirates" or c == "Singapore"\
or c == "Malaysia" or c == "Australia" or c == "New Zealand" or\
c == "Philippines" or c == "China":
hous.append(data["team_number"])
else:
stl.append(data["team_number"])
allTeams.append(stl)
allTeams.append(hous)
return allTeams

if __name__ == "__main__":
stLouis = []
houston = []
for event in event_codes:
teamsList = get_teams(event)
locList = get_locations(teamsList)
for team in locList[0]:
stLouis.append(team)
for team in locList[1]:
houston.append(team)
print "Number of elims teams in St. Louis: " + str(len(stLouis))
print "Number of elims teams in Houston: " + str(len(houston)) + "\n"

stLouis.sort()
houston.sort()
print "St. Louis teams:"
print stLouis
print "Houston teams:"
print houston

Results:
Number of elims teams in St. Louis: 174
Number of elims teams in Houston: 82

11, 20, 25, 27, 33, 41, 45, 48, 67, 68, 70, 74, 85, 107, 111, 120, 125, 133, 135, 166, 172, 175, 176, 177, 188, 193, 195, 217, 225, 228, 229, 230, 236, 245, 287, 303, 319, 329, 333, 341, 346, 365, 379, 494, 503, 525, 548, 558, 610, 623, 639, 694, 708, 836, 858, 868, 869, 870, 876, 910, 999, 1023, 1024, 1058, 1086, 1089, 1114, 1124, 1153, 1241, 1250, 1257, 1305, 1306, 1310, 1405, 1418, 1501, 1511, 1519, 1625, 1640, 1675, 1676, 1712, 1718, 1730, 1731, 1732, 1736, 1747, 1756, 1768, 1775, 1796, 1806, 1885, 1918, 1923, 1986, 2013, 2052, 2054, 2056, 2064, 2067, 2137, 2168, 2194, 2337, 2338, 2363, 2451, 2474, 2481, 2502, 2590, 2614, 2648, 2767, 2771, 2823, 2834, 2883, 2987, 3015, 3042, 3044, 3098, 3130, 3314, 3352, 3357, 3419, 3452, 3534, 3538, 3539, 3546, 3604, 3618, 3620, 3641, 3683, 3688, 4001, 4003, 4009, 4028, 4039, 4085, 4103, 4329, 4362, 4391, 4525, 4536, 4564, 4607, 4678, 4920, 4967, 5050, 5114, 5150, 5172, 5254, 5401, 5406, 5448, 5460, 5813, 5895, 6175
16, 57, 118, 148, 179, 180, 207, 231, 233, 254, 294, 330, 359, 360, 364, 842, 971, 973, 987, 1011, 1065, 1197, 1261, 1296, 1318, 1323, 1369, 1425, 1477, 1538, 1540, 1619, 1662, 1671, 1678, 1690, 1746, 1983, 2046, 2122, 2383, 2415, 2468, 2471, 2557, 2637, 2642, 2848, 2907, 2990, 3005, 3166, 3211, 3238, 3309, 3310, 3339, 3360, 3476, 3478, 3481, 3663, 3824, 3937, 3990, 4061, 4264, 4334, 4451, 4468, 4469, 4488, 4587, 4740, 4828, 4911, 5572, 5803, 5842, 5854, 5924, 5940

If anyone sees any teams in the wrong list or code errors, let me know and I'll try to fix it. Québec may not be working correctly as my Python editor couldn't handle the 'é'.

[ATannahill]

Any estimate on the amount of Michigan teams predicted to attend a Championship in 2017? I feel there will most likely be more Michigan teams at a Championship than teams at MSC, If so what is the point of having MSC as a step before the championship?

...Michigan gets a percent of the spots at the championship equivalent to the percent of FRC teams that Michigan has, rounded up to the next whole spot, at whatever time the district allotment size is calculated.

Michigan received 76 slots this year, which is 12.67% of the 600 spots. If they get the same percentage next year, that is 101.33 spots of the anticipated 800, since we do not know exactly where between 75.01 and 76.00 Michigan fell, this means that it will be 101 or 102 spots if Michigan keeps the same percent of the number of FRC teams. How these 100+ spots are divided between the two championships (each of which are anticipated to have 400 spots) is, as of yet, unknown.

As I understand it, at least one reason that MSC became larger was so that not all teams at MSC would qualify for the Championship. It is possible the folks at FIM will grow MSC again, but currently that is speculative.

[Michael Hill]

Actually, I forgot about that...increasing from 600 to 800 teams....is this really right?

New Numbers
St Louis:

District Slots: 220
Regional Slots: 115
Total Allocated: 335
Total Waitlist: 65

Houston:

District Slots: 69
Regional Slots: 150
Total Allocated: 219
Total Waitlist: 181

[Michael Corsetto]

Actually, I forgot about that...increasing from 600 to 800 teams....is this really right?

New Numbers
St Louis:

District Slots: 220
Regional Slots: 115
Total Allocated: 335
Total Waitlist: 65

Houston:

District Slots: 69
Regional Slots: 150
Total Allocated: 219
Total Waitlist: 181

This looks about right?

Can you break down district allocation? I imagine almost 100 of the slots at St. Louis are going to Michigan. Essentially everyone who qualifies for their DCMP! :yikes:

-Mike

[Michael Hill]

This looks about right?

Can you break down district allocation? I imagine almost 100 of the slots at St. Louis are going to Michigan. Essentially everyone who qualifies for their DCMP! :yikes:

-Mike

St. Louis
Chesapeake: 33
Indiana: 12
Michigan: 101
Mid-Atlantic: 29
New England: 45
Total: 220

Houston:
North Carolina: 13
Pacific Northwest: 40
Peachtree: 16
Total: 69

So yes, pretty much everyone in Michigan DCMP is going.

[dodar]

St. Louis
Chesapeake: 33
Indiana: 12
Michigan: 101
Mid-Atlantic: 29
New England: 45
Total: 220

Houston:
North Carolina: 13
Pacific Northwest: 40
Peachtree: 16
Total: 69

So yes, pretty much everyone in Michigan DCMP is going.

What are the proportionalities of the total number of teams in those districts to the total number of teams allocated to those Super Regionals?

[Michael Hill]

What are the proportionalities of the total number of teams in those districts to the total number of teams allocated to those Super Regionals?

I'm not sure what you're referring to. See my previous to last post for a breakdown of regional slots vs district slots.

[dodar]

I'm not sure what you're referring to. See my previous to last post for a breakdown of regional slots vs district slots.

Are the amount of slots given to each district the same percentage as their percentage of total number of teams in the Super Regional region?

Edit: what rtfgnow said.

[Eugene Fang]

http://www.thebluealliance.com/2champs

Have fun.

RIP.

http://i.imgur.com/GvQ8qpSl.png

[Koko Ed]

http://www.thebluealliance.com/2champs

Have fun.

RIP.

http://i.imgur.com/GvQ8qpSl.png

This is more fun than should be allowed all things considered.

[ATannahill]

Are the amount of slots given to each district the same percentage as their percentage of total number of teams in the Super Regional region?

Edit: what rtfgnow said.
Sorry, I saw your post right after mine and deleted my post to avoid confusion.

So does this mean there will now be two waitlists?

[dodar]

Sorry, I saw your post right after mine and deleted my post to avoid confusion.

So does this mean there will now be two waitlists?

4 actually. 2 for their respective Super Regional and 2 waitlists for teams wanting to switch Super Regionals.

[Thad House]

http://www.thebluealliance.com/2champs

Have fun.

RIP.

http://i.imgur.com/GvQ8qpSl.png

The hearts and broken hearts are a nice touch... :(

[wjordan]

http://www.thebluealliance.com/2champs

Have fun.

RIP.

http://i.imgur.com/GvQ8qpSl.png
The applet has NC teams going to STL / DET when they should be headed for HOU.
Otherwise, a useful tool, thanks!

[Eugene Fang]

The applet has NC teams going to STL / DET when they should be headed for HOU.
Otherwise, a useful tool, thanks!

Thanks for the catch. Silly typo...

Things will be correct in ~10 min.

https://github.com/the-blue-alliance/the-blue-alliance/commit/7f4c632d1fba9cdaca2aebe7b9791843f68c8610

[Conor Ryan]

I wonder if the timing of the Vex Champs (http://www.robotevents.com/re-vrc-16-3279.html) will have an impact on which event IFI (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/43805)sponsored teams will want to attend.

Looks like most of the NASA (http://robotics.nasa.gov/house_teams.php) teams are headed south.

How many matches will teams expect to play?

[Ruaridh]

Guess we will be in Houston, missing our East Coast, Canadian, and some International buddies.
I know I say this a lot,
but man FIRST really $@#$@#$@#$@#ed up with this call.

Well, you do have all the Alberta teams....which is a real shame because it means we don't get to compete with all of our Canadian friends

[nerdrock101]

Teams will be assigned to attend a FIRST Championship (i.e., their “home” Championship) based on the location where the team is based and not the location of the event through which they qualify for Championship.

Hypothetically, what if teams from the Houston attending region won most of the championship slots from the regionals in the Detroit attending region as well as the Houston attending region?

[Theseusgoats]

I could anything on this but will there be 8 divisions each or will they split them up? And if so, how will they split them up?

[M217]

I could anything on this but will there be 8 divisions each or will they split them up? And if so, how will they split them up?

I don't believe that's been revealed yet.

[Citrus Dad]

I've already gone on record that I support* the move to bring more teams to champs, even if it means a championsplit. As much as we all love to see the best meet the best here, most students in FRC don't get anywhere near to the best teams from far away, so they won't care as much as we do. So shed a tear for the friends we'll miss, then welcome all of the new entrants!

That said, I am intrigued by the last paragraph of the announcement. It would be cool to have the culminating event be a televised, professionally produced TV series. You could have the Einstein finals be a best-of-7 series, with a few hours between each match to make repairs, changes, and work on strategy and be interviewed. It would be boring to watch live, but that wouldn't be the intent. Instead, the 8 hour day would be condensed into one or more 1/2 hour episodes for a mass audience, the same way they do for Battle Bots. The format works - lots more people around here know about Battle Bots than FRC, even though FRC is a vastly bigger program. Maybe FIRST could entice the same producers...

*Maybe a better way to put it is that I don't oppose the split. If there were a sane way to have 800 teams in one venue, and make things cheaper, I'd probably support that instead.

Problem: getting all of the teams together for yet another trip (especially if it's not externally funded) will be difficult to accomplish before the end of the school year. The biggest problem is the events on school calendars in May and early June. After early June is a non-starter because seniors will have graduated and often are immediately out of hand into summer activities.

The better solution is to properly structure the Super Regionals to turn them into different types of Championships. There's threads on CD that propose viable solutions. (I still haven't seen a rationale argument that the 2 events must be equally diluted other than it might hurt someone's feelings.)

[Citrus Dad]

St. Louis
Chesapeake: 33
Indiana: 12
Michigan: 101
Mid-Atlantic: 29
New England: 45
Total: 220

Houston:
North Carolina: 13
Pacific Northwest: 40
Peachtree: 16
Total: 69

So yes, pretty much everyone in Michigan DCMP is going.

This is scary. Divisions may look like glorified regionals in play quality. This implies that the MSC will be more difficult to win than a Super Regional.

[Citrus Dad]

Looks like most of the NASA (http://robotics.nasa.gov/house_teams.php) teams are headed south.


I wonder if NASA understands this as a major sponsor...

[EricH]

I wonder if NASA understands this as a major sponsor...
You do realize that most of NASA's facilities are in the southern area or the coasts, right? Exactly the areas FIRST picked to go to the Houston whatever-you-want-to-call-it-but-not-championship.

[b.arci]

While this post does not exactly discuss the same issue as the other posts in this thread (of which I will not reveal my opinion on—there has been some great discussion, but I do not have much to contribute), I would like to note something interesting.

If you look at Northern Canada on the map, at the Northwest Territories (NT), you'll note that the part of it belonging to the islands are attending St Louis/Detroit, while the mainland is attending Houston. It's just interesting that they followed geographical boundaries, rather than political ones on this. Does anyone have any insight on it? Does it stem from the way FTC teams are assigned to the FTC Super Regionals? Even though there are no FIRST teams from there (I checked - https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=searchform).

It's just wierd. (An oversight maybe?) Hmm.

[Billfred]

How many matches will teams expect to play?

This would be the question, wouldn't it? Let's say we have 17 hours of qualification matches (what we had this year), and a 7-minute match cycle. That's 145 qualification matches, which with 6 robots per match means there are 874ish robot-matches to play. At 100 teams per division, that's 8.74 plays. Boo hiss.

If that gets down to a 6-minute cycle, it gets to 10.2. That's right on what we have this year, but with the higher team count it does make the schedule that much more of a crapshoot. But you're still playing more than we did at Palmetto, so yay?

If they went to 8 50-team sub-divisions, you could run a 10-minute cycle and play 12. Doubt they go that route, especially with smaller venues, but I'll put it out there for giggles.

[EricH]

If they went to 8 50-team sub-divisions, you could run a 10-minute cycle and play 12. Doubt they go that route, especially with smaller venues, but I'll put it out there for giggles.
I'm actually hoping that's the route they go, or 4 100-team subdivisions each with 2 fields (despite the scouting nightmare that results). You could also shorten the hours/day the matches are running.

[orangemoore]

I'm actually hoping that's the route they go, or 4 100-team subdivisions each with 2 fields (despite the scouting nightmare that results). You could also shorten the hours/day the matches are running.

It would be nice to see shorter days, with a better Cost per match.

[Billfred]

I'm actually hoping that's the route they go, or 4 100-team subdivisions each with 2 fields (despite the scouting nightmare that results). You could also shorten the hours/day the matches are running.

Hadn't considered that angle, and that would certainly make a 6-minute cycle more feasible. However, FLL and FTC have to fit back into the America's Center this year. Can you do that with eight fields?

[sdangelo]

Hadn't considered that angle, and that would certainly make a 6-minute cycle more feasible. However, FLL and FTC have to fit back into the America's Center this year. Can you do that with eight fields?

According to the pit map (https://guidebook.com/guide/53130/map/68313/), FLL is still in the America's Center. The Scholarship Row & Sponsor booths were moved to the hotel instead.

[EricH]

Hadn't considered that angle, and that would certainly make a 6-minute cycle more feasible. However, FLL and FTC have to fit back into the America's Center this year. Can you do that with eight fields?
Yep. Remember that you're also losing 200 FRC pits (and crates). That's 200 10' squares (and their aisles) that you now have available for FTC "stuff", plus a little.

Or, to put it another way: The Archimedes/Tesla pits turn into FTC. Move the FRC practice fields (and take out one of each type, maybe?) and you've got a pretty good shot at fitting a fair number of FTC teams in there. Whether it'll be enough is an open question, but it'll be pretty close.

[orangemoore]

Wait did they say FTC was coming back to the Dome?

[Basel A]

I'm actually hoping that's the route they go, or 4 100-team subdivisions each with 2 fields (despite the scouting nightmare that results). You could also shorten the hours/day the matches are running.

Trying to get 100 teams into bleachers in Cobo Hall (Detroit CMP) will be a huge pain. Would much rather have 50 teams worth of bleachers at each division field. Also would be great not to have to scout two fields. It's pretty tough to do at MSC. Einstein is taken care of by being in Ford Field.

[Basel A]

While maybe balanced at the top, I expect Houston to have a much weaker field that STL/Detroit. North 1/2 CMP has 5 (6?) strong districts, while South 1/2 CMP gets PNW and GA, as well as many regional qualifying teams. Additionally, I expect Houston to welcome more teams off of the waitlist than North 1/2 CMP will.

That, coupled with a later weekend, means North 1/2 CMP will likely be more competitive and harder to get in to.

Bummer :(

-Mike

Whipped up a chart (http://i.imgur.com/HGvH4rF.png) real quick. Houston would definitely have been weaker than St. Louis this year. This is both because their percentiled OPRs are lower, but also because Houston would have had more waitlisted teams (more districts in St. Louis fills it out better, plus more overall 2016 teams would've gone to St. Louis, 243 to 357).

[Edxu]

I'm actually hoping that's the route they go, or 4 100-team subdivisions each with 2 fields (despite the scouting nightmare that results). You could also shorten the hours/day the matches are running.

I'm for this as well. As a strategist, I usually meet with my Drive Team 4-5 matches beforehand to detail what we're doing, and at events with short turnarounds *cough waterloo cough*, sometimes the teams that I talk with have a match right before the match that we play with them, making it very difficult to plan matches in advance.

A 10-minute turnaround would be a godsend for pit crew as well, as more space between matches means that you can do more and more of the checkup list between matches, keeping the robot in better shape.

Also fewer pit scouting assignments per person is really nice.

[Pault]

Honestly, I think that FIRST is really lucky that the 2 Super Regionals aren't even more uneven. At least there is a pretty even split with TX/CA going to Houston and ON/MI going to STL/Detroit. I could easily see a world where all the best teams are all in one half, especially considering how FIRST has a much longer history in Super Regional North territory.

[evanperryg]

I've kept a list of alliance partners and other teams I've been fortunate to interact with over the last few years, and it's disheartening to think that I won't see many of those teams ever again. Many of the teams I have found most inspirational, most impressive, and most exciting to watch will be in Houston next year. I'm well aware that FIRST doesn't read CD, at least not thoroughly enough to notice this post, but FIRST, you made a mistake.

This isn't about seeing awesome robots, this is about seeing the awesome people. Now that I'm not a student anymore, I figured I'd finally have the freedom to roam the pits more, and talk to more of the amazing people who I've only ever gotten to talk to briefly. I was hoping to talk more with a few of the people I had met down at the Arkansas regional this year, but now they're all heading to Texas.

I hope that someday we'll see a return to a single world championship, but for now I'll hold dearly the memories I've made from the final four real world championships.

[MikLast]

I'm for this as well. As a strategist, I usually meet with my Drive Team 4-5 matches beforehand to detail what we're doing, and at events with short turnarounds *cough waterloo cough*, sometimes the teams that I talk with have a match right before the match that we play with them, making it very difficult to plan matches in advance.


One of the (very few) downsides of districts from a drive team standpoint: you never get time to relax.

[wjordan]

I wrote a script to try and compare the north champs to the south champs based on historical OPR, and here's what I found:

Here's percentile OPR at worlds for North teams and South teams:

Year North South
50th 75th 90th 50th 75th 90th
2004 44.82 56.59 70.47 32.14 46.97 64.60
2005 12.83 17.79 23.67 10.81 16.22 22.81
2006 15.20 23.38 33.03 12.39 19.94 27.46
*2007 -0.28 54.96 168.85 25.63 130.43 203.00
2008 21.51 32.25 41.92 17.10 25.05 36.73
2009 25.10 33.25 40.10 21.26 28.47 35.08
2010 2.22 3.81 4.90 1.91 3.27 4.32
2011 24.20 36.37 45.73 17.40 30.86 42.72
2012 13.20 18.38 25.27 9.90 16.53 25.58
2013 37.46 52.15 65.85 31.86 44.29 63.19
2014 51.69 68.34 85.10 46.57 62.57 81.38
2015 41.17 57.61 72.64 34.29 53.06 69.58
2016 37.20 45.28 54.27 31.66 40.23 49.52


And here's South OPR as a percent of North OPR at each percentile:

50th 75th 90th
2004 71.71% 82.99% 91.67%
2005 84.25% 91.18% 96.34%
2006 81.54% 85.28% 83.14%
*2007 -9034% 237.31% 120.23%
2008 79.51% 77.66% 87.64%
2009 84.70% 85.62% 87.47%
2010 86.35% 85.76% 88.11%
2011 71.91% 84.85% 93.41%
2012 75.01% 89.97% 101.26%
2013 85.05% 84.93% 95.97%
2014 90.10% 91.56% 95.64%
2015 83.30% 92.11% 95.79%
2016 85.12% 88.84% 91.24%


A graph over time is attached. Based on this, I think it's pretty clear that the North champs is going to be the stronger event over Houston. While the top 10% of teams are fairly close between them, it's the North's much stronger middle tier that brings up the quality of play. Perhaps this is due to the fact that the North is mostly teams from districts, which have a tendency to improve the middle-tier teams over the regional model. The gap between the two regions has also stayed pretty consistent, despite the rise of powerful western teams such as 987 and 1678.

* I wasn't around for 2007, but does anyone know why the OPRs for that year are so out of whack?

[EricH]

* I wasn't around for 2007, but does anyone know why the OPRs for that year are so out of whack?
Exponential scoring, or I miss my guess. A particularly good team could place 8-9 scoring objects in the match, but whether they got 16 or 256 points for 'em depended a lot on WHERE they placed 'em and where the other alliance placed theirs.

Then there was the end-game bonus--dedicated ramp bots could be worth 0-60 points depending on how good their defense was and how good at climbing the ramps their partners were.

[Nuttyman54]

Exponential scoring, or I miss my guess. A particularly good team could place 8-9 scoring objects in the match, but whether they got 16 or 256 points for 'em depended a lot on WHERE they placed 'em and where the other alliance placed theirs.

Then there was the end-game bonus--dedicated ramp bots could be worth 0-60 points depending on how good their defense was and how good at climbing the ramps their partners were.

And today we've learned that exponential scoring does not play nice with algorithms that assume linearity. Whodathunk!

[Knufire]

And today we've learned that exponential scoring does not play nice with algorithms that assume linearity. Whodathunk!

#thisiswhywedothemath

[vikesrock777]

Exponential scoring, or I miss my guess. A particularly good team could place 8-9 scoring objects in the match, but whether they got 16 or 256 points for 'em depended a lot on WHERE they placed 'em and where the other alliance placed theirs.

Then there was the end-game bonus--dedicated ramp bots could be worth 0-60 points depending on how good their defense was and how good at climbing the ramps their partners were.

I wasn't around back then, but wasn't that also the year of the weird experimental match balancing algorithm? Could that also be messing with the quality of OPR data?

[EricH]

I wasn't around back then, but wasn't that also the year of the weird experimental match balancing algorithm? Could that also be messing with the quality of OPR data?
Uh... Yep.

And probably not.


The "match balancing algorithm" AKA "NOT YOU GUYS AGAIN", for the uninitiated, was an attempt to "balance" matches. Top third of team numbers had one on each side of the field. Bottom third had one on each side of the field. Middle third... You get the idea. Unfortunately for the algorithm designers, that just so happened to be 2056's rookie year... And most events didn't have the depth that they could get away with it. It didn't take long for teams to raise a stink.

The problem is that it was even(ly bad) across everybody, so I don't think it'd affect OPR that much.

[Koko Ed]

I wonder if the timing of the Vex Champs (http://www.robotevents.com/re-vrc-16-3279.html) will have an impact on which event IFI (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/43805)sponsored teams will want to attend.

Looks like most of the NASA (http://robotics.nasa.gov/house_teams.php) teams are headed south.

How many matches will teams expect to play?

They'll probably only do 10 but they should do 12. They could keep the eight fields and just do the MSC thing and bounce them back and forth between the two fields even and odd numbered matches til they reach 204 completed matches with 102 teams each getting a dozen matches to play.

[marshall]

The applet has NC teams going to STL / DET when they should be headed for HOU.
Otherwise, a useful tool, thanks!

The problem is that you used 900... We break everything. ;)

[GreyingJay]

Exponential scoring, or I miss my guess. A particularly good team could place 8-9 scoring objects in the match, but whether they got 16 or 256 points for 'em depended a lot on WHERE they placed 'em and where the other alliance placed theirs.


Ah, so just like Recycle Rush. :rolleyes:

[MARS_James]

Ah, so just like Recycle Rush. :rolleyes:

Recycle rush was more of a multiplier in the Garbage Can with Rack n' Roll you had it based on how long a row you could create scored based on 2 to the power of the length of the row so basically starting with a row of 1 it went: 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256. Then add in an end game that required two robots, one with a specific design element and you make it a math nightmare.

[Lil' Lavery]

* I wasn't around for 2007, but does anyone know why the OPRs for that year are so out of whack?

Beyond the exponential scoring already mentioned, the scheduling algorithm did not play kindly with OPR, as the three "bins" (old teams, middle teams, young teams) were never mixed.


The problem is that it was even(ly bad) across everybody, so I don't think it'd affect OPR that much.

It impacts the math involved in calculating OPR, as you've essentially divided each event into three bins.

[Alan Anderson]

Why even go a weak Championship?

Conferences? Sponsor and scholarship presentations? It's not just about the robots.

[Knufire]

Why even go a weak Championship?

More wins = more grade A bumper fabric.

[Eugene Fang]

More wins = more grade A bumper fabric.

Only on about half of the alliances though.

[Akash Rastogi]

Conferences? Sponsor and scholarship presentations? It's not just about the robots.

While it is not just about the robot, district teams sometimes cannot financially justify attending Champs, unless the team really feels it is worth going to. It is a different story for you Indiana folks since you are a lot closer.

For a lot of teams, the robot is still the central focus, and playing with friends and teams we love is also the justification for said expenses. Not every team will rationalize going or not going the same way.

I have a feeling the focus for a lot of teams will shift to their District Championship event as their last official event. Others may go to travel off-season events such as IRI and Chezy Champs (low cost+see your old friends)

[GreyingJay]

Conferences? Sponsor and scholarship presentations? It's not just about the robots.

Actually, this leads to a good question - will conferences be duplicated at each championship? I hope I don't have to miss out on half the seminars.

[Michael Corsetto]

Actually, this leads to a good question - will conferences be duplicated at each championship? I hope I don't have to miss out on half the seminars.

Many of the most popular seminars are given by mentors of teams that are annual contenders at the Championship, who volunteer their time to give these talks.

Do you expect these volunteers to now attend both 1/2 CMP's/Super Regionals?

Or, do you expect comparable experts in most/all subjects at both 1/2 CMP's/Super Regionals?

[Carolyn_Grace]

Actually, this leads to a good question - will conferences be duplicated at each championship? I hope I don't have to miss out on half the seminars.

Do you attend all of the seminars now? I'm lucky if I get to two!

[marshall]

Many of the most popular seminars are given by mentors of teams that are annual contenders at the Championship, who volunteer their time to give these talks.

Do you expect these volunteers to now attend both 1/2 CMP's/Super Regionals?

Or, do you expect comparable experts in most/all subjects at both 1/2 CMP's/Super Regionals?

I think you'll get a different range of talks at each event with others stepping up to fill in the gaps created... granted, I'm being optimistic. I also hope that by this time next year FIRST has solidified a partnership with Twitch or YouTube or someone to get the talks recorded and posted.

[Michael Corsetto]

I think you'll get a different range of talks at each event with others stepping up to fill in the gaps created... granted, I'm being optimistic. I also hope that by this time next year FIRST has solidified a partnership with Twitch or YouTube or someone to get the talks recorded and posted.

I totally agree here.

Those that expect a Karthik/Jared/Tom/Austin (some of the rockstars of FRC) presentation at both Super Regionals have their heads in the clouds.

I think many similar topics will be covered at both events. Just don't mistake quantity for quality.

-Mike

[Jon Stratis]

I think many similar topics will be covered at both events. Just don't mistake quantity for quality.

My hope is that there's some effort (by FIRST or the community) to have the presenters for similar talks work together to create a joint presentation both can be happy with. It still won't be identical, but working off the same slide deck or notes would certainly help!

[marshall]

I totally agree here.

Those that expect a Karthik/Jared/Tom/Austin (some of the rockstars of FRC) presentation at both Super Regionals have their heads in the clouds.

I think many similar topics will be covered at both events. Just don't mistake quantity for quality.

-Mike

I hope no one expects that but maybe I'm wrong. I've seen this happen in the hacker/maker community in the past where conferences diverge and you end up with different topics and speakers going to each. There are a lot of rockstars in FRC. Hopefully more of them step up and who knows, creating the opportunity could bring more of them out. While Karthik has always been Karthik, I don't know that he has always been Karthik*... if you know what I mean.

*The man who gives amazing talks for TED and FIRST and has a ton of enthusiasm and passion. Though I suppose its entirely possible he was forged that way and broke the mold in the process.

[waialua359]

I hope no one expects that but maybe I'm wrong. I've seen this happen in the hacker/maker community in the past where conferences diverge and you end up with different topics and speakers going to each. There are a lot of rockstars in FRC. Hopefully more of them step up and who knows, creating the opportunity could bring more of them out. While Karthik has always been Karthik, I don't know that he has always been Karthik*... if you know what I mean.

*The man who gives amazing talks for TED and FIRST and has a ton of enthusiasm and passion. Though I suppose its entirely possible he was forged that way and broke the mold in the process.

Well I doubt Karthik will be at the South FRC Championships anyway.
VEX Worlds is scheduled for that weekend.

[Lil' Lavery]

Just had a discussion about that on moving toward better scheduling. FRC used a different scheduling scheme in 2007 in which teams were sorted into 3 bins and teams within the bins didn't play each other. That broke the statistical underpinning of the OPR (at least in the way it's now calculated) making the results nonsensical.

While this is true, even without that formula OPR would have been a poor predictor of future success given the exponential scoring (even if you assume 60-point end-games).

[Knufire]

For the conferences, why can't FIRST just ensure that high quality recordings and presentation materials of all seminars be available online post-chanpionship?

[EricH]

For the conferences, why can't FIRST just ensure that high quality recordings and presentation materials of all seminars be available online post-chanpionship?
*chuckle* Yeah, 'bout that... This year's aren't up yet that I know about...

[evanperryg]

Just don't mistake quantity for quality.

-Mike

I was actually going to say this, except I was going to say it in regards to the entire concept of half champs, not just the seminars.

[synth3tk]

I was actually going to say this, except I was going to say it in regards to the entire concept of half champs, not just the seminars.

Boom.

[Cabey4]

It would be amazing if all the talks could be recorded next time.
I thought they were going to be this year, and now I'm kicking myself for not getting to see all of the talks I wanted to.
It would be great if they could record them next year.

[GreyingJay]

It would be amazing if all the talks could be recorded next time.
I thought they were going to be this year

Didn't they?? :( :(

[CalTran]

Didn't they?? :( :(

Yes and no. There's been a lot of rumblings about them being recorded, but the official postings have yet to surface...

[GreyingJay]

Yes and no. There's been a lot of rumblings about them being recorded, but the official postings have yet to surface...

Alrighty. Here's hoping they turn up.

As I said in another thread about champs - Even though my team didn't qualify, I had half a mind this year to go anyway and just attend conferences, and bring my 4K video camera with me to record the sessions.

Maybe I'll actually try to make that happen for one of the champs next year.

[synth3tk]

Alrighty. Here's hoping they turn up.

As I said in another thread about champs - Even though my team didn't qualify, I had half a mind this year to go anyway and just attend conferences, and bring my 4K video camera with me to record the sessions.

Maybe I'll actually try to make that happen for one of the champs next year.

If you do, see if you can hook into the mixer board for audio. The last thing we need is a crystal-clear picture with muddy/noisy audio from the back of the room.

[GreyingJay]

If you do, see if you can hook into the mixer board for audio. The last thing we need is a crystal-clear picture with muddy/noisy audio from the back of the room.

Would definitely hook into the mixer board or get my own external audio, say from a recorder placed toward the front of the room.

I'm just shooting the breeze here but I certainly hope to be able to make it out next year. I had the good fortune of attending champs in 2015 and I sat in on a couple of excellent sessions.

(If anyone would be in a position to help me get an audio feed, please feel free to PM me!)