1.1 CFM Air Compressors?

[ChuckDickerson]

What air compressor did your team use this year? Given the increase in the allowable air compressor CFM rating to 1.1, I am wondering what new legal compressors teams have found.

[wilsonmw04]

We used a Thomas 215 this year. It run below the 1.1 CFM limit, but the rate at high pressures made it a great compressor to use this year. It does run hot, however. A fan on the piston housing cooled it nicely.

http://www.gd-thomas.com/templates/pages/product.aspx?id=2722

[Ben Martin]

We also use the Thomas 215. It's worked nicely for us for three years.

[AllenGregoryIV]

We used a viair 98C. However there website is now listing a higher CFM because they are using 13.8V instead of 12V this wasn't the case during build season. The ones we own list a 1.10 CFM at 12V directly on the compressor. I may need to call Viair and see if we can get 12V specs for their compressors published again.

[Michael Hill]

Where are you purchasing the 215 compressor? The only place I've seen is here: http://cfpwarehouse.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product2931.html

But it looks super sketchy.

Do you contact Thomas directly?

[cbale2000]

The VLAIR 330C-IG (http://www.viaircorp.com/330C-IG.html) is rated to 1.06 CFM at 12V and is 100% duty cycle, so no more overheating if it runs constantly...
The downside of course is that it also weighs over 8lbs.

Would be handy if you needed a lot of air pressure and had spare weight to play with I guess. :rolleyes:

[Kevin Sevcik]

The VLAIR 330C-IG (http://www.viaircorp.com/330C-IG.html) is rated to 1.06 CFM at 12V and is 100% duty cycle, so no more overheating if it runs constantly...
The downside of course is that it also weighs over 8lbs.

Would be handy if you needed a lot of air pressure and had spare weight to play with I guess. :rolleyes:Eyeroll completely inappropriate here. This is probably the perfect off-board compressor. You don't care about weight, and the fill-rate should be comparable to or better than the 98C or 100C. If you've got a ton of air to store, it's not going to mind running forever, either.

I'm not clear on why everyone is so big on the Thomas 215. Unless the viair 98C and 100C suffer significant performance hits for running at 12V instead of 13.8V, it seems like they have better flow rates and fill rates than the 215.

[Michael Corsetto]

The VLAIR 330C-IG (http://www.viaircorp.com/330C-IG.html) is rated to 1.06 CFM at 12V and is 100% duty cycle, so no more overheating if it runs constantly...
The downside of course is that it also weighs over 8lbs.

Would be handy if you needed a lot of air pressure and had spare weight to play with I guess. :rolleyes:

Anyone have experience with this compressor? Advice on where to buy?

We ran an off-board set up this year and loved it, I don't think we'll go back to on-board any time soon.

However, our old trusty Thomas compressors are getting old, and we are looking to upgrade. This looks like a great alternative.

-Mike

[Cash4587]

Anyone have experience with this compressor? Advice on where to buy?

We ran an off-board set up this year and loved it, I don't think we'll go back to on-board any time soon.

However, our old trusty Thomas compressors are getting old, and we are looking to upgrade. This looks like a great alternative.

-Mike

I really enjoyed how your cart included the compressor and water bottles for the drive team. How many pneumatics did you actually have on your robot this year to be comfortable not running a compressor on the robot? How long would it take to fill up your robot air tanks?

I am a bit skeptical of running no compressor on one of our teams robots. Especially with our pneumatapult on our bot this year.

Also not that I have any experience with the compressor but, Amazon seemed to have some comparable prices for the 330C-IG.

[Michael Corsetto]

I really enjoyed how your cart included the compressor and water bottles for the drive team. How many pneumatics did you actually have on your robot this year to be comfortable not running a compressor on the robot? How long would it take to fill up your robot air tanks?

I've attached our calcs for this year, using 1114's pneumatics calc sheet.

We had 8 tanks, all roughly the size of the black Clippard tank.

It took about 5 minutes to charge using an old Thomas compressor.

-Mike

[cbale2000]

I've attached our calcs for this year, using 1114's pneumatics calc sheet.

Could you post the link for that calculator? I've been looking for something like this.

[Electronica1]

Where are you purchasing the 215 compressor? The only place I've seen is here: http://cfpwarehouse.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product2931.html

But it looks super sketchy.

Do you contact Thomas directly?

We got ours from http://www.ridetech.com/store/215-thomas-compressor-100psi.html

[Michael Hill]

We got ours from http://www.ridetech.com/store/215-thomas-compressor-100psi.html

Thanks. I was searching too narrowly I guess. I was searching for "215ADC38/12". I lose 5 Google-Fu points.

[Eric Scheuing]

We used a viair 98C. However there website is now listing a higher CFM because they are using 13.8V instead of 12V this wasn't the case during build season. The ones we own list a 1.10 CFM at 12V directly on the compressor. I may need to call Viair and see if we can get 12V specs for their compressors published again.

I contacted Vair about their 1.1 CFM compressors, and the customer service rep I spoke with said that the specs they have listed online are incorrect. He was familiar with the FRC pneumatic rules, and confirmed that they are NOT in fact FRC legal.

I wonder how many teams ended up with illegal compressors because the spec sheet was wrong...

[roboruler]

I contacted Vair about their 1.1 CFM compressors, and the customer service rep I spoke with said that the specs they have listed online are incorrect. He was familiar with the FRC pneumatic rules, and confirmed that they are NOT in fact FRC legal.

I wonder how many teams ended up with illegal compressors because the spec sheet was wrong...

Well considering that spec sheets can be used to prove the legality of components to RI's. What spec sheet evidence is there that these are illegal?

Obviously if it would create an unfair advantage, it would be un-GP to use even if the fact sheet was wrong.

[BenB]

Could you post the link for that calculator? I've been looking for something like this.

Here's a more recent version of the calculator. We added extend and retract pressure in case we wanted to use inline regulators to save some air when we don't need as much force in one (or both) directions.

We've been using the compressor off-board since FIRST opened up the pnuematic air tank rules in 2011 to allow plastic air tanks, and haven't looked back.

[Ben Martin]

Where are you purchasing the 215 compressor? The only place I've seen is here: http://cfpwarehouse.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product2931.html

But it looks super sketchy.

Do you contact Thomas directly?

I've bought from these guys for 3 years -- no issues and fast shipping.

[Eric Scheuing]

Well considering that spec sheets can be used to prove the legality of components to RI's. What spec sheet evidence is there that these are illegal?

Obviously if it would create an unfair advantage, it would be un-GP to use even if the fact sheet was wrong.The spec sheets are updated now. Here are some snippets from my convo with the rep. Not trying to put any teams on blast for using something with misrepresented properties; there's no way they could have known.

Regarding the 97C and the new 1.1CFM restriction
Eric,

No problem at all. We've had a few people inquire about that and our new testing has changed the CFM to 1.52. We are just waiting for final confirmation so it can be changed on our site.

Thanks,
VIAIR

Follow up asking about the 100C
Hello Eric,

Unfortunately even the 100C is going to be out of spec once we list the new CFM data. The new CFM at 0psi for the 100C will be 1.27.

Hope that helps and let me know if there is anything else I can help you out with.

Thanks,
VIAIR

Asking about other legal compressors
Hello Eric,

Thanks for contacting VIAIR! The only compressor we have seen work for FRC is the 90/92C. They are available through Andy Mark or a number of our distributors. That would be the least expensive option for you since they will also give you free shipping.

Thanks,
VIAIR

[Rick]

All of these values are for a supply voltage of 13.8 volts. The 100c, as an example, is 1.27 CFM at 13.8 volts. If 12 volts is the supply voltage, is the CFM reduced at the same ratio? 1.27 CFM at 13.8v is 1.10 CFM at 12v thus making it legal?

[wilsonmw04]

All of these values are for a supply voltage of 13.8 volts. The 100c, as an example, is 1.27 CFM at 13.8 volts. If 12 volts is the supply voltage, is the CFM reduced at the same ratio? 1.27 CFM at 13.8v is 1.10 CFM at 12v thus making it legal?

Math does not make them legal. Only a spec sheet detailing the CFM makes it legal. The Thomas 215 and VIAIR 90/92 meet those requirements.

[Rick]

Math does not make them legal. Only a spec sheet detailing the CFM makes it legal. The Thomas 215 and VIAIR 90/92 meet those requirements.

Is VIAIR aware that we run these compressors at 12 volts? It would be nice to a spec sheet for 12 volts.

We'll see what the 2017 rules and Q&A have for rulings.

[Eric Scheuing]

Is VIAIR aware that we run these compressors at 12 volts? It would be nice to a spec sheet for 12 volts.

We'll see what the 2017 rules and Q&A have for rulings.

Might be worth reaching out to them. Their customer service was very responsive!

[Eric Scheuing]

Math does not make them legal. Only a spec sheet detailing the CFM makes it legal. The Thomas 215 and VIAIR 90/92 meet those requirements.
FWIW I just checked, and VAIR lists the performance data of the 90/92/95C at 13.8V as well.

[AllenGregoryIV]

FWIW I just checked, and VAIR lists the performance data of the 90/92/95C at 13.8V as well.

Yes this is definitely an issue. I'll try to call them tomorrow if I have time. Do we know for sure that it was just their measurements that changed or did they change anything about the compressor it self. It would make sense that they would want to rate their compressors at higher CFMs (for every application other than FRC). Currently we have no way to prove the legality of any VAIR compressor since we don't have a 12V CFM rating at 0psi for any of them. We can assume the 90/92/etc are legal since we are supplying a lower voltage but we don't actually know their CFMs at 12V either.

[galewind]

The VLAIR 330C-IG (http://www.viaircorp.com/330C-IG.html) is rated to 1.06 CFM at 12V and is 100% duty cycle, so no more overheating if it runs constantly...
The downside of course is that it also weighs over 8lbs.

Would be handy if you needed a lot of air pressure and had spare weight to play with I guess. :rolleyes:

We had the weight to play with it and used it on-board. Loved it. We had issues with the little kit viair because as it started going south, it seemed to give us issues with the PCM, causing all of our pneumatics to fail. Simple solution is to mount it with a spike, but we opted to go bigger this year. HAD to use a spike because of the higher AWG wire.

Edit: The only issue we had was when we mounted our fittings into the head, we over-torqued it and cracked the head. We had a high-strength epoxy we used around the fitting and didn't have any issues.