Smart or not?????? [Archive]

Taggerun

20-05-2016, 13:34

My team is considering to go with Java instead of Labview for programming over the span of a couple of years. Is this a good idea as Labview is graphical and Java is text based? :confused: :confused:
Thanks,
Taggerun (3036)

GeeTwo

20-05-2016, 14:26

We've used java our entire team history, so I'm all in favor of that.

The question is whether it's smart for you - the main thing to consider is your mentor and programming base. That is, if you have no mentors and only a few students who know labview at a basic level, but a mentor who knows java well and is willing to teach and work with you, absolutely switch. On the other hand, if you don't have a java mentor identified, the switch would likely be a disaster. Where along that spectrum does your team fall?

Taggerun

20-05-2016, 14:36

Know one I know has any clue on how to use Java.
What should I do??
Thanks,
Chris

Jon Stratis

20-05-2016, 14:46

Well, if a decision hasn't been made yet (you did say the team was just considering it), then I would suggest setting up an off-season trial. Take last year's robot and reprogram it in java!. That will help give both you and your team a good feel for what the difference is.

I would also ask what is driving the change. Is the school introducing a programming course in java? Is it because you have a mentor that feels more comfortable with it? Is it because you see other teams around you using it? Is it because you perceive there to be some feature with java that you can't get with labview? Big changes like this don't happen in a vacuum, find the driver behind it and put up a pro's and con's list for everyone to consider.

Taggerun

20-05-2016, 14:57

Jon Stratis

20-05-2016, 15:20

Well my team has never used used Labview, so I can't really speak to it... But I do know that the goal of having three lalanguages was to have them all be as equal as possible in terms of capabilities.

If you want advise on getting started with Java, I would recommend talking with some of the MN teams that use it. I know there are a bunch (it seems like we have more java teams than average around FRC), but I'm sure my team would be willing to help, as would 1816 - I believe they switched to java just a couple of years ago. I know there are many more, but those are the two I know for sure that use it. As an added bonus, having somewhat local teams help should give you some added help at your regional next year if you need it!

GeeTwo

20-05-2016, 15:27

Given your situation, I absolutely agree with John.

Understand why the switch is good, and why sticking with LV is good.

Seek local help in addition to CD.

Don't take any steps you can't readily back out of until you're confident you know where you're going and at least roughly how you'll get there.

Arhowk

20-05-2016, 16:52

But, after finding very little examples of ways to get to started

You aren't looking in the right places than. Between the sample projects provided in Eclipse and the tutorials on screen steps (along with the infinite number of general tutorials on Java found on the Internet) you should be able to find examples to use.

Pault

20-05-2016, 17:42

We have the Java firmware on our Recycle Rush Bot. The reason for the change is because we want to step our game and start using sensors and Vision Processing for autonomous. And the team believes that Java will be more versatile. But, after finding very little examples of ways to get to started, I am starting to believe that Labview is more versatile than we thought and that we just need to know how to use Labview better. We also thought that having a textbased program would help us with our soon to be revived FTC. What are your thoughts??
Thanks,
Taggerun

It is certainly possible to do all that stuff in LabVIEW. And it will probably be easier for you to start doing that with LabVIEW, because the learning curve for Java is much steeper. That being said, I personally prefer Java pretty heavily, and if you have people that want to learn a text based, object oriented* language, then programming your robot in Java is definitely something that I would recommend.

* I get that LabVIEW has the ability to be object oriented, but it is certainly not part of the core feature set that most students learn, and I have yet to see someone actually use it.

Hitchhiker 42

20-05-2016, 17:46

We have the Java firmware on our Recycle Rush Bot. The reason for the change is because we want to step our game and start using sensors and Vision Processing for autonomous. And the team believes that Java will be more versatile. But, after finding very little examples of ways to get to started, I am starting to believe that Labview is more versatile than we thought and that we just need to know how to use Labview better. We also thought that having a textbased program would help us with our soon to be revived FTC. What are your thoughts??
Thanks,
Taggerun

I wanted to point out that our team uses vision processing and many many sensors, including PID-tuned motors with LabVIEW. Java is not superior in that.

Also, I will support the idea that if you learn any programming language better, it will become more and more versatile for you. I suggest sticking with LabVIEW and trying to learn how to do new things in it. Don't just limit yourself to strictly robotics applications. Try creating a program in LV as a stand alone project without the robot. It will certainly help you learn the language better.

DonRotolo

21-05-2016, 19:08

There is nothing one language can do that the other cannot. It may be easier for some things though.

The essential point is, what does your mentor base know? If nobody knows Java but several (or even one) mentors are fluent in LV, then go with what you know. But, if nobody knows anything about anything, then try them both and see what comes easier.

Taggerun

22-05-2016, 08:31

Thanks for all of your help. After seeing the comments I am pretty sure as this years one and only programmer that I might be able to convince the team that Labview is the way to go.
Thanks,
Taggerun