View Full Version : New Submission Format for Chairman's Award
David Kelso
26-10-2002, 22:28
So much for trying to decide which video editing software we should use...the question now is, what color should the 4 pieces of paper be?????????????????????????
Katie Reynolds
27-10-2002, 08:36
... Huh? :confused:
- Katie
OneAngryDaisy
27-10-2002, 13:15
You...mean....they...changed....it?
I sure hope not- I checked the first website and there was nothing on changing the submission format...
You're kidding us, right? Please tell me you are
David Kelso
27-10-2002, 15:35
Saturday Night, an email was sent to team contacts with some new information (no mention of Nationals so do not ask). The main point was that the Chairman's Award entry would be presented on 4 sheets of paper. Your advisors should have the details for you very soon....so, no video, animations, dvds, cd's etc. Short , concise and to the point.
Aaron Lussier
27-10-2002, 15:45
Wait till I tell our chairman teams about this.
</Sarcasam> They will be soooooo thrilled </Sarcasam>
did the email say any thing for reasoning behind this?
Does it have to be text only? Or can we submit pictures along with it? I can't even imagine trying to describe our team in four pages without some form of visual.
Well, I guess that solves the problem of my team not having anybody who likes video editing. Now we just need a group that likes writing essays.
This is the file that was attached to the e-mail Mr. Kelso referred to. It covers the changes to Chairman's.
--Jordan
Shelley_delphi chick
27-10-2002, 19:42
That is an interesting subject, four pages to convey what my team is about? Our script for our chairman's award last year I think was seven or eight pages and now we are limited to four pages. I hope our interviews will help in the judging process, becaue I know myself that there is no way I could present everything my team has done in four pages. As leader and head person in charge of chairman's award submission this presents a major challenge to me on a personal level. What do all of you guys think of this?
Redhead Jokes
27-10-2002, 19:51
http://smilies.networkessence.net/contrib/Vicks/wow.gif
Our team's never submitted before. We've been working on preparations for months. Just today was working with our new very cool video software. Had the graphics done already, a student writing script today.
*mixed feelings*
We've got it all written out, so the 4 pages will be easily done by us, and will easily display what's chairman like about our team.
We're now prepared to make very cool video about our team.
I personally think that this was a bad idea. I think that making us write an essay on our team will be a major problem simply because our team will not stand out. Everything will look the same. Maybe some team will play with font colors or styles, but that's about it. And a team could easily dramatize anything or (if desperate) make things up.
Video presentations provide a unique "flavor" to your presentation. There are so many ways to do it, and really interesting video of things your team has done will make your presentation stand out.
Having to do an essay format could limit the creativity of the teams and could make the most exciting of events seem dull and ordinary. Besides, making a video is a lot more fun than writing an essay... I'm sure we all have had enough writing to do in English class ;). I really hope FIRST changes it back.
Redhead Jokes
27-10-2002, 20:49
Perhaps they won't change it back regarding the chairman's award, but maybe they'd make a new award for best
fundraising video
or
about our team video
or
Our community and our team video
or
about our region video
cuz
www.californiaconnected.org
for instance accepts video documentary
our cable channel is looking for video stories regarding school district activities...
Amber H.
27-10-2002, 21:06
Aw come on you guys, I know it's tough but you can do it!
I know that it might be really hard for some teams to express all that they need to in four pages, but it can be done. You may start off with ten pages. However, with the right editing you will be able to make a very powerful statement if you can get your point accross with fewer words.
A lot of professional writers have this problem when they make their first submissions. Their books are often several hundred pages too long. They have to cut, cut, cut, until they have a product that won't lose the interest of the reader (or the editor). (Not that I'm any kind of example with some of the log posts I've made. :D)
Once you get the hang of it, you will figure out what is really important to get accross to whomever is reading your pages.
This could really become an excellent opportunity to sharpen your communication skills.
David Kelly
27-10-2002, 21:15
i dont understand how they are now going to present the chairmans awards at nationals. the video's were the best way to present them, and now they wont be able to do it. this is really going to hurt our chances now because we have already gotten started on this years chairmans with makeing a video and such. there's going to be lots of unhappy people...:mad:
Originally posted by Shawn
I personally think that this was a bad idea. I think that making us write an essay on our team will be a major problem simply because our team will not stand out. Everything will look the same.
Maybe that's precisely the point?
A whiz-bang "wow" video editing job doesn't do anything whatsoever to show what your team has done that's worth being considered in deciding upon a Chairman's Award recipient.
Videos, animations, and that sort just give teams the ability to dress up what they've done, gloss over things, and overwhelm judges with a false, manufactured facade.
It's a bit like some of Hollywood - All bang, no substance.
Four pages of written word, coupled with a few adeptly chosen photos, will be a better indicator of the drive, effort, and impact of a given team than any cleverly edited video tape. It puts everyone on an equal playing field - a core tenet of this program, in my mind.
I like it. It's fair to everyone, it's less time consuming for the judges to evaluate, it eliminates problems with software or hardware incompatabilities, and it allows judges to carry and easily reference your entry as they meet your team and its members.
David Kelso
27-10-2002, 21:26
I know what you mean...we started our video at Disney World last year and got some super stuff (we still laugh just thinking about it). Well, no one said it was going to be easy and truthfully, the last thing I would summit is a long essay!!
Andrew Rudolph
27-10-2002, 21:48
Originally posted by M. Krass
Maybe that's precisely the point?
A whiz-bang "wow" video editing job doesn't do anything whatsoever to show what your team has done that's worth being considered in deciding upon a Chairman's Award recipient.
Videos, animations, and that sort just give teams the ability to dress up what they've done, gloss over things, and overwhelm judges with a false, manufactured facade.
It's a bit like some of Hollywood - All bang, no substance.
Four pages of written word, coupled with a few adeptly chosen photos, will be a better indicator of the drive, effort, and impact of a given team than any cleverly edited video tape. It puts everyone on an equal playing field - a core tenet of this program, in my mind.
I like it. It's fair to everyone, it's less time consuming for the judges to evaluate, it eliminates problems with software or hardware incompatabilities, and it allows judges to carry and easily reference your entry as they meet your team and its members.
I think that you are right, but still a major way to bring people in is a video, and also getting the people to make the video was impartant. And now that there is no video for us to make whats the fun in that. I think a video in tandem with an essay could work as well. Maybe they watch the videos then read the essays. I think the video was a very neat way to show what you do. Also you i think you can convey your impact through images rather words. I.E. Seeing the community you changed rather than just saying there was a community you changed.
Aaron Lussier
27-10-2002, 21:49
Ponder this for a sec..
Granted you can only use four pieces of paper but a piece of paper has a front and a back so technicaly you have 8 pages to work with not just four
Nope, in that document it said 4 single-sided pieces of paper.
Redhead Jokes
27-10-2002, 21:56
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=100338
four single-sided
http://www.emotipad.com/emoticons/Felix.gif
Aaron, just FYI, the new rules state "4 single-sided pages." Check out the file I attached to my last post.
---
I really don't have an issue with the new rules. Granted, I feel bad for teams that have spent their time and money to produce electronic presentations for this year. Fortunately, my team has only begun to do this and can now stop.
The truth is, FIRST is realizing their weaknesses and is moving in the right direction. Everything they have published about the 2003 season is moving towards less expense and time, and that move needed to occur long ago. From streamlined regionals and the possibility of standardized chassis, to a new Chairman's submission format, FIRST is doing the right thing.
As we can see, FIRST and many teams are struggling because of the poor condition of our economy. Dean Kamen's mission has always been and will always be to have FIRST impacting every student in the world. It is now clear that this will not happen with the current format. It is unreasonable to expect every high school to have any type of team with a budget in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
I do feel bad for the veteran teams that now will not have the opportunity to use their video software or custom machine their entire robot. However, the goal of FIRST would never have been reached without changes like these.
---
Jordan McNerney
Captain, Team 166
OneAngryDaisy
27-10-2002, 22:21
True... I see your point...
However, you have to see the other point of view- FIRST is after all named "for inspiration and recognition of science and technology..
We're supposed to be the driving force of the future- the future is technology and software, so i find it tough to understand how relegating to four pieces of paper can be fullfilling FIRST's title.. After all, the judges only need a VCR, a TV, and a laptop to judge the awards..
MissDaisyGirl
27-10-2002, 22:23
my personal reason for being on the robotics team is not just to learn more about engineering. in fact, i'm not interested in that at all. my main interest is computers and the reason that i valued my time w/FIRST so much is that i had so many opportunities to work w/video on the chairman's award, animation w/the 3dsmax award (which is biased anyways and i gave up on when PROS ARE HELPING EVERYONE BUT ME *bitterness*), and just plain old graphic design. but 4 pages of written word?! c'mon, i'm a designer, not an english major. what happened to the many opportunities of activities i could get into? now i'm faced w/writing yet another paper just like in english class? this is so awful. my team has put so much time into logging all of our videos and we came up with this great video idea for our Ramp Riot competition that we were going to pull off. but now...what's the point other than for making videos for yourself? i sure hope they make a new award or something b/c if they don't their missing a vital component of technology, in and of itself. that one point that was made about how will they present the national chairman's award will be interesting to see. what are they going to do, read it? the chairman's award is not going to be as special as it used to be. and as for the 'hollywood bang' stuff that everyone keeps talking about. if you have enough that your team does you don't need that, and if you're using it as filler the judges will know. but then again my team submitted an interactive CD-ROM last year. i was in charge of making the interface in macromedia director and while it worked fine on our computers we got to our regional at drexel and they said they couldn't view it! they were trying to use some old laptop to see our award which had many videos in it. grrr........where was their technology then?
to sum it all up: angry, disappointed, yet open to what others have to say, and thoughtful
Redhead Jokes
27-10-2002, 22:28
can it be three dimensional at all with appliques, stickers, etc?
Originally posted by OneAngryDaisy
After all, the judges only need a VCR, a TV, and a laptop to judge the awards..
Yes, the judges only need a TV, VCR, and laptop to view them.
However, those three things total a minimum of perhaps $1200. Multiply that times the number of judges it takes to evaluate up to maybe 800 ten-minute entries in only eight weeks and you have a lot of money.
Add to that the amount of equipment each team needs to own or have access to to produce even decent video and it simply isn't feasible.
Originally posted by MissDaisyGirl
but 4 pages of written word?!
"Content can be any combination of text and images." Read the attached rules before jumping to conclusions.
---
Jordan McNerney
Captain, Team 166
Redhead Jokes
27-10-2002, 22:38
Originally posted by OneAngryDaisy
However, you have to see the other point of view- FIRST is after all named "for inspiration and recognition of science and technology..
[/B]
Amen!!!
Our team was just beginning to learn the video software, consider learning the CAD...computer beginners were getting intrigued.
OneAngryDaisy
27-10-2002, 22:44
Jordan-
Last year at two of our three regionals only twenty-some teams entered the regional Chairmans award- that totals out to about three or four hours of tape
FIRST doesn't have to buy brand-new laptops, TV's, and VCR's for the award- I'm sure the facilities could provide some- I know as a fact that last year the judges at Drexel were using a very old Compaq laptop
Also- the winners at Regionals advance- so in total only eighteen-some submissions are sent to Natonials- not 800 at one time
I'm not trying to bash you- just expressing my feelings-
OneAngryDaisy,
I was exaggerating. My emphasis should have been on what a team needs to have to submit a competitive entry. That is what I find to be unfair about the past submission rules.
---
Jordan McNerney
Captain, Team 166
Originally posted by MissDaisyGirl
my personal reason for being on the robotics team is not just to learn more about engineering. in fact, i'm not interested in that at all. my main interest is computers and the reason that i valued my time w/FIRST so much is that i had so many opportunities to work w/video on the chairman's award, animation w/the 3dsmax award (which is biased anyways and i gave up on when PROS ARE HELPING EVERYONE BUT ME *bitterness*), and just plain old graphic design. but 4 pages of written word?! c'mon, i'm a designer, not an english major. what happened to the many opportunities of activities i could get into?
Well, try looking at it this way -
You still have an opportunity to do graphic design and animation work. Now, however, there's also an opportunity for an English major to join the team as well! I'm sorry you lost something you enjoyed, but it's not as if everyone dislikes writing.
4 pages of written words can be very powerful and compelling. It's been good enough to last through millenia, so I don't think that FIRST is too good for it.
Again, I think this is very positive. It levels the field of competition for this most coveted award, it reaffirms the goal of the award, and in my mind, may go a long way toward legitimizing the purpose of the Chairman's Award in a way that I've never seen.
English majors - come out, come out where ever you are!
OneAngryDaisy
27-10-2002, 22:56
Jordan
I completely agree with you!
That's the one good virtue this format brings- equality. I think it might be the true meaning beyond the change- If you noticed most of the regional winners last year were the ones with the most money (I'm not insulting those teams or saying they won because of money, I'm just saying they had more to work with)
Now the quieter teams have a chance to emerge
One great thing about the FIRST organization is that they listen to our voice. If they do this this year and we do not like it then they will change it the next year. They did this 2 years ago when the game was team vrs time instead of team vrs team, we complained, and they fixed it. So if the idea does turn out to be a bad one, I am confidant that it will be fixed.
Shelley_delphi chick
27-10-2002, 23:05
I'm in uter shock at what FIRST has thrown our way once again. I understand that the economy is suffering and everything else, but still you don't have to take our crative spirit away. Do they know what we put into our submissions, do they know the hours and dedication, and do they know how much fun and enjoyment it is to show people what you've created. The chairman's award has been my main focus in this program since my sophmore year when taking over the AV Photo Team. Last year our team put together a high quality submission and I disagree with the whole hollywood aspect, rookie teams may have trouble with the whole finding things to put in this award but don't hate on the people that spend hours in a closet and never see light till it's finished. I can personally say we handed in a professional looking submission and it was done by two juniors and two freshman. Adding your own special touches is what makes it special. Now we have to dela with how our english is and are we using what we slept through in english to convey what impact our team has brought about. I mean you coudl do like a scrap book and change colors and add pictures and so on and so forth, but that is like telling telling a person that has been on a new computer they have to type with a type writer. I agree with the whole stepping backwards with technology. My high school just recieved a grant to add new computer and primier and adobe photo shop to our tv station. I'm just very suprised that FIRST would throw this curve ball, but just like everything else they throw our way we accept it eventually and make the best outta it. Everyone will figure something out including my team and it might turn out better then anyone would've ever expected!!
Mike Schroeder
28-10-2002, 00:19
it is amazing how most teams take the time and money and effort into producing these presentations.
I didn't know i joined the hollywood film makers club!
ok team 25 had a really nice project we were almost done with but o well.
some of the verteran teams seem to be able to make these great, but what about team 1,0-somthing that is more worried about whether or not they can attend a competiton let alone enter a state-of-the-art chairmans submission.
this award isnt about who has accsess to the better technology for example:
shelley your team just got more equipment in your schools TV studio, one question: how many other teams' schools have a televison studio.
this new format is giving equal opportunity for each team to make a presentation about how FIRST has impacted your team, school, or comunitity, not about who spent the most time and effort to make a 10 min long story on teams' history
Matt Leese
28-10-2002, 00:19
I don't think the changing of the Chairman's Award has much to do with judge's time. I'm not sure what reasons FIRST gave in their letter but my guess is that FIRST wants to encourage more teams to submit a Chairman's Award. Usually, building a robot and submitting a Chairman's Award submission is a daunting task. One that many smaller teams really can't do. In the past its taken a lot of work as most Chairman's Awards took the form of videos which required both a lot of videotaping as well as post production. However, by changing the Chairman's Award to merely be four sides of paper, it allows many more teams to submit the Chairman's Award. While this may be distressing to many teams that have submitted before, in the long run it will encourage more teams to take the time to sumbit a Chairman's Award submission.
Matt
Shelley_delphi chick
28-10-2002, 07:30
Just outta curiosity what team or school has the money to have state of the art equipment. I go to an inner city school where the drop out rate is over half by senior year. Our high school is old and wearing down. We don't have lunch anymore because there were too many fights and people skipping school. Most other school districts around us think we are the scum of Ohio. Like I said we are an "inner city' (need I say more....okay I'm saying more "ghttoness isn't even a word to describe the school I go to." When I have to leave class five minutes early because I suffered a concussion because some big "not of white colored person" was acting a fool and running through the hall and knocked me clear across the hallway and head first into a wooden showcase. Now does this seriously sound like a school with money?? For as much as we have to offer at our school, it's overshadowed by the city and the reputation that we have. FIRST is the only thing that keeps some kids in our school in school, otherwise they would be the half that doesn't graduate. We only got the equipment because we are a poor inner city school and our teachers and principals write grants out on a weekly basis trying to get us more money to do things with. So, please don't stereotype that we have money when in all respect we have very little.
Next..... I agree that maybe more teams would be willing to sit down and take the time to submit something for the award. I just think that in words they can make themselves more appealing then actually showing your robot out throwing the first pitch at a baseball game, showing your robot in the regional chamber of congress, showing your robot in city parades, and showing the kids faces that you go and take your robot to show them what they have to look forward to in the future. I'm blowing off steam because I know what I personally put into the chairman's award and this year I feel my strengths aren't in English and I'm not a very creative person with words. Give me a video project and I'm there with many idea's. I guess my English teacher and I will be spending many hours together. Wait, does this mean I won't be in the closet the whole season.... ::grins ear to ear::.....I can be build team captain!! Score!! I'm all over that!!
We are a small team from a smaller school. Many of the teams you guys are on are bigger than our entire high school. Our school's facilities, those that we don't have to remove everything from when we leave, consist of a single office with two desks. Most of you are in graduating classes that are larger than our entire school, and we go K-12.
In previous years, we have submitted Chairman's Award entries because they were a contractual requirement from one of our sponsors, not because we thought we had the slightest chance of winning. Last year there was a contractual screw-up and we did not have to submit. What a relief!. Unfortunately, I think the sponsor will make sure that does not happen again, one way or another.
I think it is great that they are scaling it back. I think it kind of misses the point when to be competitive a team has to have a sub-team the size of our whole team doing just the Chairman's award. Restrictions also force you to be more creative. I expect to see much more in the way of material restrictions this year, just based on this. If the rules don't pinch, they're not doing their job.
We are a good team, that I feel embodies the spirit of FIRST as much as anybody. We do all the same things other teams do but, like every one else, we have limited resources. We prefer to apply them to things that will gain something for the team and our community. Not spending hundreds of hours producing something that basically pats ourselves on the back in front of the judges.
Besides, in my experience, the award is based mostly on quantity of quality effort. Meaning there is no way a team of 10 can compete with a team of 40, even if they are of equal dedication to the ideals of FIRST. The judges, being primarily CEOs or other management types, tend to look at quantity more than quality.
If you have put in a lot of effort already this year I'm sorry. But you can take valuable stuff away from what you've done. If you're doing it right, your script or whatever you are working to, has the gist of the information you were trying to convey. You will just need to distill it further or present it in a different way.
The other thing this will teach you is not to get too attached to stuff before the real rules come out. Because after all, this is FIRST. Changing the rules is a way of life here. If you don't like it, go do BattleBots or something else where the game is always the same. It may be more comfortable, but not nearly as representative of life.
Redhead Jokes
28-10-2002, 09:49
Originally posted by ChrisH
The other thing this will teach you is not to get too attached to stuff before the real rules come out. Because after all, this is FIRST. Changing the rules is a way of life here. If you don't like it, go do BattleBots or something else where the game is always the same. It may be more comfortable, but not nearly as representative of life.
:D Ain't that the truth.
Hi neighbor!
By putting something into video, you are making it glamorous. When it is text, the judges can see it right there, they have what you accomplished in words. Four pages is a lot, actually. You can put a lot of text and a lot of pictures on there.
It also eliminates copyright issues because a lot of teams like to put songs in their videos, many of which they don't have the copyrights to.
As Krass said, it "levels the playing field" so to speak. All teams have an equal opportunity, without any bias by the judges.
People that are arguing for video editing, answer this...
If it takes you 10... 20... maybe 30 hours to create this video, then what are you doing for the community???? 30 hours is a lot of time... isn't it better spent helping the community? Furthering your chances for the chairmans award??
Redhead Jokes
28-10-2002, 10:52
Originally posted by Jnadke
People that are arguing for video editing, answer this...
If it takes you 10... 20... maybe 30 hours to create this video, then what are you doing for the community???? 30 hours is a lot of time... isn't it better spent helping the community? ??
For us working towards a chairman's award accomplished the obvious - focusing the team on what's great about our team, where we need to put more effort in, getting the word out to the public about our team...
Working towards making a video was bringing some fun into the effort, discovering team members' talents we didn't know they had, drawing in school community's help to make thus educating them about what we do, giving tech whiz's an opportunity to learn something new, and tech beginners something to be excited about.
I say make the chairman's award a level playing field with the 4 pieces of paper, and have an award for the best video that can be used to spread the word about FIRST and your team in your community.
Originally posted by Redhead Jokes
I say make the chairman's award a level playing field with the 4 pieces of paper, and have an award for the best video that can be used to spread the word about FIRST and your team in your community.
Hi Back, Neighbor!
I agree. I have no problem with teams putting videos or other promos together using whatever resources they have available. I think it should be encouraged and a separate award would do that nicely. (Sponsor suggestions anyone? Spielberg maybe?)
But it seems to me that when you have a multi-person sub team whose whole focus is on the Chairman's award and nothing else, that maybe somebody is missing the point. The focus should not be getting kids excited about winning an award or putting together a video. There's nothing wrong with it, but there are other venues for it. The focus is on getting kids excited about technology and giving them a sense that "I can do that".
Some might say "but what about the animation competition?" If you read the rules on the animation competition, the focus is on helping your team visualize their robot concept and how it might work. Cuteness counts a little, but accurate representation counts much more.
Accurate visualizations help refine the final product and contribute to the goals of the program. We use them in my job at all levels, from the CAD designer trying to figure out a joint, to a program manager wondering just how we're going to launch that missle. We spend a tremendous amount of effort on product visualization, but very little on videos on our community service projects. We do those too, but the ratio is like 2,000 or more to 1 in terms of man hours.
If we used a similar ratio of robot building to Chairman's award on our team, we'd have one student working on it for 10 hours. I think we can actually do that. It might even be competitive.
ColleenShaver
28-10-2002, 13:25
I think a lot of great points have been made here about the importance of the Chairman's Award irregardless of its submission format.
- Nothing is being done to stifle anyone's creativity.. nothing is being done to stop anyone from making some cool videos... Why not still do that and if you need to attract sponsors, or students, or showcase your efforts you can pop in this tape and impress everyone.
- It's just a new challenge, like FIRST presents every year. Yeah, maybe people are not English majors, but you are not going to go through a technical education these days without learning to write... a major problem with many tech students (engineers, etc) is they come out not knowing how to communicate their ideas to anyone.
- This format will hopefully even out the field.. as some posted earlier, it will bring a level of equality. It should also make the submission easier (so people don't not submit an entry because they know they don't have the video editing experience or ability to produce to the quality many can) and encourage more submissions.
WPI has been in FIRST since the very beginning. Last year was the very first year we submitted a Chairman's Award entry. We didn't submit a video either. We submitted an interactive webpage with bulleted points and photos on each page and voice overs explaining in more detail (kind of like a decent powerpoint presentation & lecture).
I guess my point is to take the advice of a lot of the people that posted here. This really can be for the better for everyone, regardless of how much time you've put into a video so far.. all is not lost, nothing is really. It's just another challenge.. like alliances were in '99, 3x losers score in 2000, like 4v0 in 2001... etc etc...
While many people have been working on Chairman's Awards for weeks (or months) now, we also start doing robot design work before we even know what the game is. We experiment with drive systems and other new things.. never knowing if we will be able to use all that work when the game is revealed in January. But it is good practice, a good time to learn and teach, and we can always use it some other time for another robot (or purpose even). The new Chairman's Award format can be looked at in the same light..
Redhead Jokes
28-10-2002, 13:35
Originally posted by ChrisH
But it seems to me that when you have a multi-person sub team whose whole focus is on the Chairman's award and nothing else, that maybe somebody is missing the point.
We don't have a multi-person sub team with the only focus on the Chairman's Award. It was me and a student, trying to get others help. Now we have a retired teacher and a few more students doing video. It was helping some get the point. The very cool video software we just received courtesy of a mentor was a vehicle for getting other students to begin to get interested in what their team is about and what to aspire to. We have lots of newbies, few veterans. The process of doing the video and going after the chairman's award is, to me, more important than the cool video and winning. Which, come to think of it, is what will be more team's experience now that the submission doesn't require video.
Originally posted by ChrisH
Some might say "but what about the animation competition?" If you read the rules on the animation competition, the focus is on helping your team visualize their robot concept and how it might work.
Accurate visualizations help refine the final product and contribute to the goals of the program.
*wince* That's the one we haven't come close to getting off the ground - animation or CAD for that matter. This is our first year that we have one borrowed computer, a donated laptop, and the use of 3 member's laptops when they bring them. Our past years' animation/CAD software went to a past student leader since our facility didn't have a computer. We're going to try to hold on to our program's programs now, in order to have them availalbe to begin to familiarize team members with them.
Redhead Jokes
28-10-2002, 13:50
Originally posted by colleen-t190
we also start doing robot design work before we even know what the game is. We experiment with drive systems and other new things.. never knowing if we will be able to use all that work when the game is revealed in January. But it is good practice, a good time to learn and teach, and we can always use it some other time for another robot (or purpose even).
We went to year round for the first time this year. We successsfully analyzed our 2002 robot, and what we would have done differently, analyzed what wasn't working for our team that needed to be changed, and made good progress on all that. We had expectations of experimenting with robotic subsystems, a lot of which didn't come to fruition. However we got a LOT done organizing our mess of a facility into something wonderful, and working towards something unexpected robotwise that just might fly.
http://www.redheadjokes.com/gifs/rdhdwnk.gif
Altho we didn't accomplish all we wanted to, the process put us "out" there for the public to see, and, for instance, we're getting a walking, talking robot donated to our team cuz she heard about us. Playtime and exhibitions!
Like life, it's a journey not a destination, celebrating the end results you wanted, the end results you didn't expect, and picking yourself up and journeying again.
A lot of people have said that turning the Chairman's Award into an essay would level the field. But have you thought that it might level it too much? For instance, if your team did something really cool, you would write about it, but the judges might be like, "Oh, that's sort of interesting..." and not make a big deal out of it. With a video, they could see the actual impact of it. And, you could see the actual interaction with the community, such as parades or demonstrations. And isn't interacting with the community and spreading the word of FIRST what Chairman's is all about?
Originally posted by Shawn
A lot of people have said that turning the Chairman's Award into an essay would level the field. But have you thought that it might level it too much? For instance, if your team did something really cool, you would write about it, but the judges might be like, "Oh, that's sort of interesting..." and not make a big deal out of it. With a video, they could see the actual impact of it. And, you could see the actual interaction with the community, such as parades or demonstrations. And isn't interacting with the community and spreading the word of FIRST what Chairman's is all about?
The concept of something being too level, even, or fair eludes my grasp. Honestly.
Ultimately, it's a subjectively judged award. People judge it based on what they see from the submissions, what they bring to the submissions, and what they're looking for in a Chairman's Award recipient.
Two teams may do the exact same community outreach program, though one may present it better in writing than the other. There's nothing we can do about that, I'm afraid, and it's just one of those facts of life.
If, however, one team submits a professionally edited video with a budget that can rival Star Wars, while the other submits a type-written entry - I'd be amazed, really, if the team who submitted the video tape was not preferred.
Therefore, I maintain that standardizing the submission media in a way such that it gives every team in FIRST access to submit themselves for consideration does level the playing field in the only way a playing field can be leveled.
The idea of something being too fair or balanced is silly.
But a picture says a thousands word....anyone can say they did an activity but unless FIRST is going to substantiate each statement, it easy to verbally enhance your activity. The proof is in the picture. It also provides another technical but not super technical area to interest and inspire students. It does use technology whereas just writing can be done in school and will not inspire a student in science or technology.
Fran
Originally posted by Fran
But a picture says a thousands word....anyone can say they did an activity but unless FIRST is going to substantiate each statement, it easy to verbally enhance your activity. The proof is in the picture. It also provides another technical but not super technical area to interest and inspire students. It does use technology whereas just writing can be done in school and will not inspire a student in science or technology.
Fran
For as long as the teams in consideration for this award are charged with evaluating themselves - as they have done since the award's inception - there will be embellishment, reinterpretation, and outright deceipt. The only truly fair way of evaluating the recipient of these awards, in my mind, is to have a neutral third party directly evaluate the teams as the year progresses. Then, these third parties, using an agreed upon rubric, score each team, compare their scores, and decide upon a winner.
I have a lot of issues with the Chairman's Award. Particularly, I have trouble resolving the difference I see between what the Chairman's Award is meant to represent and what it has become.
By submitting a entry into this part of the competition, a team indicates its desire to win this award. For me, that calls into question everything that the team has done and plans to do. While the reality may be that a team's events have impacted their community in a positive way, their intention is just as important - again, in my mind.
A team that holds events and reaches out into the community - all with video camera in hand - is out there for the wrong reasons.
A team that does the same thing, but writes about it later - a second though...that's the team that deserves to win. The teams that do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing, and for believing in the message of FIRST deserve to be recognized. Teams that seek to win the Chairman's Award and line up activities to follow suit are shameful.
Again, this is all in my opinion. I don't like the Chairman's Award. I never have. I think it's fake. I think it encourages deceipt, manipulation, and dishonesty. I think by simplifying the submission format, it'll help to redeem the award.
Besides, nobody is saying that there cannot be photographs - or, similarly, that there needs to be more than a few words on these pages. You've been given a blank canvas to work with. Be creative. This doesn't need to end up looking like something from a medical journal.
Doing a community event and writing about it for submission into the Chairman's Award is no less shameful than documenting it on film. I personally think that it is perfectly fine. The way I see it, the Chairman's Award inspires teams to reach out. Sure, they are motivated by winning the award, but honestly, how many teams would do community events without this motivation in mind? I'm sure a few teams out there wouldn't worry about that if there was nothing in it for them. Granted, there are plenty of teams out there who don't care about an award and would love to do that kind of thing on a regular basis.
Anyways, what I'm saying is that FIRST wants us to reach out to the community. And if they want us to present all that we've done to them, shouldn't we be allowed to do it in the best manner that accomplishes this? And FIRST is all about science and technology. We have people wanting to be animators or engineers.... Why not open up a career of video editing to them too?
Amber H.
28-10-2002, 17:08
All I have to say right now (no offense to the talented video people) is Yipeeeee!
At last, I can actually be of some use to a local team! I might not have to be a teamless orphan anymore!
I have checked the map and the easiest teams for me to commute to are in Manchester (NH) off of the main interstate.
Mr. Kelso?
Andy Baker
28-10-2002, 17:31
I think that many of you are missing a significant point.
FIRST has greatly limited what we can do with the initial Chairman's Award entry... but they still are doing interviews with each team. These interviews mostly take place in the pit. That's where your creativity should be placed.
You can still do a video. You can still do a powerpoint presentation. Now, it's just gotta be shown in your pit... during your interview. So... not only should you include your writing experts, now you need to involve your school's theatre department!
So... last year's video (or other) presentation was supposed to be 10 minutes long... this year's needs to be shorter (3-5 minutes), and you get to do it LIVE. I'd say that this ADDS to the creative challenge.
So... build your kiosks, create your story boards, write your scripts, shoot your video clips, plan your pit layout accordingly. We are.
Andy B.
I am from a small canadain team. Last year was our first, and while one person from the team worked very hard on the chairman's award submission, he failed to hand it in on time :(. I agree that a four-page summary is more equal to all teams than a video.
But this is not the point. While reading this thread, I wondered why people called this submission an 'essay'. I understand this word as something very boring typed with a 10-size font. I think we can make those fout pages into more than that! It doesn't even have to be in words. It could only have pictures, if your team wishes. For people who complained about not using technology enough, why don't you try to make some 3D images on there in a hologram or something like that?!? Or for designers: just as there are tons of ways to make a video, there are so many ways to design four pages! I think calling it an essay kills everybody's creativity about that. Don't make it a boring essay for the judges to read, make something interesting out of it.
Redhead Jokes
28-10-2002, 18:17
Yes, we brainstormed a little yesterday. It doesn't say what kind of paper, there are no margins specified, we wondered if you can make a pop-up, have wild colors, have it professionally printed, bordered in words, icons, logos...have decorative cut-outs in the paper - see thru paper, bind it...
OneAngryDaisy
28-10-2002, 18:23
Having a video running for your presentation- absolutely ingenious....
How I'd love to do that... I see one possible glitch- last year at the Philly Regionals the judges interviewed us in the lobby of Drexel's gym, not our pit area..
can anyone verify for sure where the interview/presentations will be held?
Nate Smith
28-10-2002, 19:52
At every site I was at last year, they had a specific location away from the "noise" of the competition for the interviews...
Katie Reynolds
28-10-2002, 20:39
Originally posted by Andy Baker
I think that many of you are missing a significant point.
FIRST has greatly limited what we can do with the initial Chairman's Award entry... but they still are doing interviews with each team. These interviews mostly take place in the pit. That's where your creativity should be placed.
You can still do a video. You can still do a powerpoint presentation. Now, it's just gotta be shown in your pit... during your interview. So... not only should you include your writing experts, now you need to involve your school's theatre department!
So... last year's video (or other) presentation was supposed to be 10 minutes long... this year's needs to be shorter (3-5 minutes), and you get to do it LIVE. I'd say that this ADDS to the creative challenge.
So... build your kiosks, create your story boards, write your scripts, shoot your video clips, plan your pit layout accordingly. We are.
Andy B.
Well said, Andy.
That's pretty much what we decided. Even though we are limited to what we can do with our submission, we'll work with it. There's not much else we can do!
Our team is still going to make a video. Team promotional items are always good to have on hand, anyways. :)
- Katie
My team managed to find a way to keep making the videos we were working on and actually use them to interact with the community, which in turn gives us another topic to mention on Chairman's. So, things are looking up, maybe for the better. I guess we'll just have to see....
Chris Nowak
28-10-2002, 22:51
Yeah...this probably will turn out to be a good thing, but I know reding this thread right now that someone I know is going to be extremely unhappy about this turn of events...he is kind of psycho about his creativity with videos and such. This is going to be good for our team, though. We'll just have a smaller and shorter(only work on it for 1-2 weeks) chariman's award team, unlike the past where we've had 6-8 people working toward that same award. Oh well, that frees people up to do other cool stuff and focus more on broader PR(including more community service).
I would definitely agree that if you think your creativity is being stifled, you need to think about all of the other awards out there. Creating PR stuff like videos and interactive CDs is where you should send your people. Videos and such running in your pit can get you an award if they demonstrate aspects of your robot or team. I'll stand by my conviction that theres a place for everyone in FIRST. regardless of their area of talent. If what you're doing is not for an award, you should become even more motivated and make something really cool, grab the attention of others, and maybe in the future there will be an award for it. FIRST is an environment that should be condusive to your creativity.
Justin 188
29-10-2002, 08:58
I doubt that FIRST will actually go through with this. It might be to use people's initial reaction as a deciding factor (and generally the response is pretty negative).
Frankly, this is a dumb idea, because there isn't really anything challenging or hard about writing an essay about the team's accomplishments/endeavors, as long as you have 1 person who is good at english. Given that the Chairman's Award is supposed to be the most prestigious award, writing an essay to win it basically cheapens the award.
It would be like giving the national championship to the robot which was physically largest.
Nate Smith
29-10-2002, 10:47
Keep in mind that the way the guidelines are written(or at least the way that I'm reading them), it nowhere says that it has to be an essay, only that it has to fit on 4 single-sided sheets of paper. So, if you were to use a newsletter or yearbook(actual school yearbook, not FIRST's "yearbook page") layout, that would still qualify...
Rich Wong
29-10-2002, 13:12
It's a good challenge and a fair one-
1 sheet of Executive summary
4 sheets of text or images
5 minutes of conversation with the judges
hours of observation of team performance
This is more than enough to help the judges
select one winner per regional.
I believe this new process will allow
all the teams to compete at an even level.
In the pass some teams had videos/DVDs
that look like a Hollywood production.
FIRST, I believe, know that the resources to
produce on this type of media is way beyond most schools.
Some are even struggling with local transportation
just to get to the events. Should this give up
on applying for the Chairman's Award because
they can't produce a high quality production?
No... they are the school that FIRST wants
to encourage to apply for the Chairman's award.
To me, this change make sense.
:rolleyes:
Redhead Jokes
29-10-2002, 15:28
Originally posted by Chris Nowak
Videos and such running in your pit can get you an award if they demonstrate aspects of your robot or team.
I understand that there isn't much room in the pit, and that there are only @5 "display" tables at LA Regional. Are the display tables first come first serve? We have 3 science project display boards that display our team's activities.
Was brainstorming today. How 'bout a walking billboard with the story about our team? Person wears a front and back board.
http://www.walkingbillboards.co.uk/balloon_man_blue.gif
How can a video be shown by a walking around person?
Andy Baker
29-10-2002, 15:58
Attached is a picture of our pit from last year. In this picture, you can see these things:
1. a video screen on top of our pit,
2. banners w/ team name and partners (sponsors)
3. our 1992 robot hanging on the upper left side of the pipe structure.
4. some fancy red & blue rope lights
Other teams even do more. Some of the more impressive pits last year were from teams 48, 103, 175, and 343 (among others).
Andy B.
Redhead Jokes
29-10-2002, 16:02
Very cool. Thank you for posting that. Others going to post their pit pics?
Hey, you know what would be really cool? Building a robot (or using one from a previous year) and putting a TV screen on it. Then you can let it roam around your pit area or bring it over to other teams...
Redhead Jokes
29-10-2002, 16:17
Originally posted by Shawn
Hey, you know what would be really cool? Building a robot (or using one from a previous year) and putting a TV screen on it. Then you can let it roam around your pit area or bring it over to other teams...
Cuz of our public exposure this year, a toy store owner is donating to us the 5 ft walking talking robot she doesn't want anymore. We haven't seen it yet. We've talked about the possibility of a video screen. Don't know if we'd ever take it to regional or national, but hoping to take it to SCRRF's robot workshop. We'll see.
Don't know what ours looks like yet, but oh the possibilities...
Robot Mascot (http://www.robomedia.com/museum.html)
Wayne C.
29-10-2002, 17:24
Hey guys-
How about putting all that effort you were going to use promoting your team to FIRST to the better use of promoting your team and FIRST to neighboring communities or helping a struggling rookie team?
Maybe a 4 page essay puts takes the emphasis off spending time to win an award and changes it to spending more time actually doing what FIRST is really about- getting more kids involved.
Off my soapbox now
WC
Redhead Jokes
29-10-2002, 17:55
Originally posted by Wayne C.
How about putting all that effort you were going to use promoting your team to FIRST to the better use of promoting your team and FIRST to neighboring communities or helping a struggling rookie team?
Maybe a 4 page essay puts takes the emphasis off spending time to win an award and changes it to spending more time actually doing what FIRST is really about- getting more kids involved.
The process of going after the chairman's award was crystalizing to our team where we needed to pick up the ball and run with it.
We were able to do both - go after the chairman's award, and get the word out to nearly double our team #'s, get a lot of publicity in the papers... Just haven't had ANY luck finding a team to mentor. We personally contacted local private and public schools without teams. Only one bite. We might be mentoring a lego team for a small private school. Our mentor is informally mentoring a team in the town where he works. We're spending time getting SCRRF off the ground tho.
dk5sm5luigi
29-10-2002, 19:54
I remember a couple years back when FIRST first tried to do this and asked the question in the forum. It was a resounding answer no but it has been in the works for a while. I personally do not like the idea of have only four pages to work with but I also did not like have the size restrictions and 15 minutes to work with the first time they gave us them. Then when it went down to 10 minutes I didn't like that either but I have dealt with it and so can everyone else. It just gives you another chance to show how creative you can get.
Justin 188
29-10-2002, 22:55
Originally posted by Nate Smith
Keep in mind that the way the guidelines are written(or at least the way that I'm reading them), it nowhere says that it has to be an essay, only that it has to fit on 4 single-sided sheets of paper. So, if you were to use a newsletter or yearbook(actual school yearbook, not FIRST's "yearbook page") layout, that would still qualify...
That's very true, but all the same, 4 single-sided 8x11s is a huge limitation on content. A picture might be worth a thousand words, but 10 minutes of moving pictures/sound/what have you, is worth way more.
Another thing - if team resources or professionalism of the submission has anything to do with FIRST's decision to change the format, then I would have to say they're taking a step in the wrong direction. The proverbial playing field doesn't need to be levelled - it's the content that counts, not how it's presented. Just like how you can have an ugly robot that is really good at it's designated function - it may not look nice, but it can win the competition.
Nate Smith
29-10-2002, 23:36
Originally posted by J 188
The proverbial playing field doesn't need to be levelled - it's the content that counts, not how it's presented. Just like how you can have an ugly robot that is really good at it's designated function - it may not look nice, but it can win the competition.
Very true, but when you don't have a performance factor to figure in(such as in your robot example), and you are dealing with solely subjective criteria, whether it is intentional or not, how well something is presented will, in most cases, affect who comes out on top...
Rich Wong
30-10-2002, 10:44
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Andy Baker
[B]Attached is a picture of our pit from last year. In this picture, you can see these things:
1. a video screen on top of our pit,
2. banners w/ team name and partners (sponsors)
3. our 1992 robot hanging on the upper left side of the pipe structure.
4. some fancy red & blue rope lights
====================================
That's a cool pit!
BTY: I believe the 4 sheets of paper restriction is
the submission phase of the Chairman's Award only.
During the interview phase which can take place at
the judge's room you may be able to bring presentation
material (within limits) to show the judges-
photo albums, postboards, etc.....
:)
Shelley_delphi chick
30-10-2002, 23:36
Does anyone know what the guidelines fo the interview are? I mena it would be nice to be able to bring something into the interview and be able to explain more indepth what our teams are about. I mean four pages is limiting the things that we can include. Making sure there is enough room for pictures, charts, and our community service and corperate coperation. Let me know if ya'll find anything out?
Travis Hoffman
31-10-2002, 14:02
Originally posted by Andy Baker
Other teams even do more. Some of the more impressive pits last year were from teams 48, 103, 175, and 343 (among others).
Andy B.
Originally posted by Redhead Jokes
Very cool. Thank you for posting that. Others going to post their pit pics?
Team 48's pit was two pits down the aisle from the TechnoKats' pit in Florida (thanks for the compliment, Andy). You can see it in the background of Andy's picture. I've attached a picture of our pit area at the Canadian Regional. Here are some of the key features of the pit wall we built:
1. Modular extruded aluminum and Lexan construction - easy to set up and tear down - we could pack and ship the entire wall in a crate along with our robot cart and tools.
2. Overhead lighting and scrolling LED message display for match times/scores, team information, etc.
3. Central lockable storage bin and plenty of shelves for tools, laptops, and other items. This kept our pit area free of clutter and gave our team plenty of space to work on the robot.
4. Delphi banner and posters with our team name, logo, and pics of our robot, Xtremachen5. I've seen other teams put up similar posters in their pits which contain Chairman's Award-relevant information. We also had a TV/VCR (not shown) that we used to replay match video and display our Chairman's Award tape.
Rich Wong
01-11-2002, 15:43
I asked FIRST about the interviewing process for
2003-
Q1: Will the interview be at the pit area or in a separate judge's area?
A: Specific interview locations are not yet determined and are
site-dependant. Some sites have very limited ancillary sparce, so the pit area is the only location-- announcements will be made on site at each regional as to where the judges will interview the teams who have submitted chairman's award submissions.
Q2: Are teams allow to bring or show "items" to the judges during
the interview process?
A: It's an interview- not a presentation with visual aids.
Hope this answers some of the questions.
FRANK(WGH)
06-11-2002, 17:50
The change in the Chairman's award submission came to me as a suprise to me too! I mean for years now our team spent hours upon hours on the video editing. Now what do we do???
Most of you are mad because you have all these nice new toys (OOOHHHH Toys) for video editing and now have no use for them. well here's an idea. Make a chairman's award video and use it in your pits. Our Team for example always makes a pit tape showing off our robot. You could combine your chairman's award video ideas into a video like this. This way you can play with the toys and not have to worry about time limits and stupid computer problems or possesed computers while on a strict schedule.
:D :D
Shelley_delphi chick
07-11-2002, 16:25
Go Delphi Elite people posting in here!! I am going to be able to see day light this season and fill some much needed shoes. I think that the four pages is alittle drastic still, but hey what are we going to do......NOTHING!! I think we should all just deal with it and quit complaing because we are all wasting time on what we could be using to think of creative ideas to present this years chairman's award. Time is ticking and the season will begin soon, I think we need to relaize what needs done and do it!! Be like NIKE man..........."JUST DO IT!"
GoDaisy341
10-11-2002, 20:36
I think that the four pages is alittle drastic still, but hey what are we going to do......NOTHING!! I think we should all just deal with it and quit complaing because we are all wasting time on what we could be using to think of creative ideas to present this years chairman's award. Time is ticking and the season will begin soon, I think we need to relaize what needs done and do it!! Be like NIKE man..........."JUST DO IT!"
I disagree. I think if we can get enough people together to try and get this rule changed before the season starts we could. I for one am not looking forward to making a Chairman's Award Entry that is made of paper and not video clips. There's got to be someone that will back me on this, I mean, there's like 1,000 teams out there. Doesn't anyone feel the same way?:confused:
The season has already started.
And I HOPE FIRST learned their lession about changing the rules after they have made them.
How can a video be shown by a walking around person?
Anyone remember the Nintendo street team? They sent people out(paid job) to wander around malls and such and have people play the GameCube they had straped to their belt. LCD screen on the persons chest. I shall go look for pictures.
<EDIT>
Best I can find is the post on /. (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/07/09/192258&mode=thread&tid=127)
</EDIT>
Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I dislike small special interest groups making large changes
Redhead Jokes
10-11-2002, 21:01
Cool! Looking forward to the pics.
Joe Matt
10-11-2002, 21:02
We went around VCU with just made footage of Spark 3.0 on our iBook. It worked surprisingly well.
Look for the Team 384 Street Team this year (hopefully) :)
OneAngryDaisy
10-11-2002, 21:26
This will probably be another one-year-thing like the "teamwork challenge" last year when 4 robots competed as a team... As students, we are given the incredible opportunity to create the future; FIRST is here to lift us up to the podium of success.
They are not doing that by changing this submission format to four pages- those of us who want to major in video production/filmmaking are insulted by this... Imagine telling all programmers they could only use old versions of C... Or imagine telling pit crews they can only use old washing machines to make robots...
This year surely will be interesting.. but I surely hope the format is changed for next year's competition..
Originally posted by OneAngryDaisy
They are not doing that by changing this submission format to four pages- those of us who want to major in video production/filmmaking are insulted by this... Imagine telling all programmers they could only use old versions of C... Or imagine telling pit crews they can only use old washing machines to make robots...
PBASIC is a weird version of BASIC, which is older then C.
Also, what about the English majors?
No need to be insulted because they are changing the rules this year for their program. Would the build people be insulted if they were told they could'nt move from their starting place?
I would propose no, they would just view it as a challenge.
This isn't made to tailor to your interests, its made to get you interested in something new.
That said, if you want it changed, the time to talk about it will be the team forums next summer.
Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You can't please everyone, someone needs to be told no.
Chris Nowak
10-11-2002, 23:16
Jeez, just because chairman's award cant be a video doesn't mean that you can't make videos. I said it before(maybe in this thread...cant remember), but I think that everyone has a place in FIRST. Just because Video ppl can't submit for the Chairman's award doesn't mean they will have nothing to do in FIRST. The truly inspired video ppl should make the video anyway and show it to potential sponsors. I personally like this idea, and I think people who think its stifling their creativity have to be creative about what they can use their talents for.
Redhead Jokes
10-11-2002, 23:17
We're going ahead with our video. It's the first year we were going to do one, the first year we have video software...
and our open house at all our meetings is attracting a variety of people, who will have the opportunity to sit down and see the video,
let alone at all competitions and exhibitions.
FRANK(WGH)
12-11-2002, 18:53
Originally posted by GoDaisy341
I disagree. I think if we can get enough people together to try and get this rule changed before the season starts we could. I for one am not looking forward to making a Chairman's Award Entry that is made of paper and not video clips. There's got to be someone that will back me on this, I mean, there's like 1,000 teams out there. Doesn't anyone feel the same way?:confused:
I very much agree that it should be changed but i dought that FIRST will change the rules until next year.
GoDaisy341
12-11-2002, 20:07
I very much agree that it should be changed but i dought that FIRST will change the rules until next year.
Well thank you. At least someone from another team agrees with me. Now someone tell me, where is the "gracious professionalism" that Woody is always preaching about in taking away people's jobs on the team? That is not the spirit of FIRST. Now will anyone be willing to take a stand with me and go against this rule?
Originally posted by GoDaisy341
Well thank you. At least someone from another team agrees with me. Now someone tell me, where is the "gracious professionalism" that Woody is always preaching about in taking away people's jobs on the team? That is not the spirit of FIRST. Now will anyone be willing to take a stand with me and go against this rule?
To me, at least, FIRST is about exposing people to new things. Can you not use a drill press, learn to lathe, learn to design a gearbox, mentor a FLL team, make a fundrasing video, work on the animation, keep track of finances, or any other of the meriad of tasks that need to be done to be successful.
And in the professional world, the company isnt there to provide you with your job, it is to provide a service to someone else. FIRST is providing the country by getting kids excited about science. Some might argue that they it is just getting kids excited about something. (You sure seem excited about making a video:))
So you can't make a video for Chairmans, you can still make a video.
It seems similar to the rules for the game changing, and the people that worked on a mechanism to pick up balls are out of a job because there are not balls but floppies this year. It is the same task, to manipulate an object, yet must be approached differently. Chairman's is the same objective, but must be approached differently this year.
Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~
Blondie - Heart of Glass
FRANK(WGH)
14-11-2002, 17:51
Originally posted by GoDaisy341
Well thank you. At least someone from another team agrees with me. Now someone tell me, where is the "gracious professionalism" that Woody is always preaching about in taking away people's jobs on the team? That is not the spirit of FIRST. Now will anyone be willing to take a stand with me and go against this rule?
your partly right about a job being lost but the wonderful thing about the A/V team is that you can make any kind of movie. so make some thing to show off your team. or make a run off of your written chairman's award.:D :D
Shelley_delphi chick
14-11-2002, 22:24
Well, delphi ELITE is going to take FIRST's challenge and run with it. We all have many ideas for four single sided picies of paper. What we are planning on doing is getting a bunch of ideas together and making them all and then voting on which one that we like the best! We are going to also make a video as an off spin of our chairman's award and the "AV twinks" on our team are all happy about that! Yea, we all get to use our nice set-ups and make soemthign great to show everyone in the pit area as well as to prospective new comers and coummunity and sponcers. Have a ball with this years new competition?
Tyler Olds
22-11-2002, 01:00
If you want my honest oppinion, I would say do a regular chairmens award anyways. We used ours a lot for promotions durrign non-first related events and fundraisers. It is also good to give to companies for PR use. I know our team will be doing this and i highly sugest that other teams do the same.
Adrienne E.
22-11-2002, 17:01
Originally posted by J 188
Frankly, this is a dumb idea, because there isn't really anything challenging or hard about writing an essay about the team's accomplishments/endeavors, as long as you have 1 person who is good at english. Given that the Chairman's Award is supposed to be the most prestigious award, writing an essay to win it basically cheapens the award.
From my 3 years on the X-Cats and the past 3 months on 229 I think that changing the chairmans award criteria might be a good idea. 191 didn't have the equitment or money or knowledge to produce a video. In my my high school there were alot of kids who wanted to participate on FIRST but weren't the best at designing and building or working on computers. They were better at writing. I think this really gives people who my have different talents the ability be able to participate in FIRST. How is that a bad thing? Although it does take some creativity away, it doesn't make it any less challenging, it might even make it more challenging just becuase of the fat that many teams don't have the greatest writters on their teams. I'm now the chariman's award leader for 229 and I'm looking foward to the challenge!
jonathan lall
01-12-2002, 23:29
188 has always held the Chairman's Award in very high regard. We had a very large subteam working on our submission last year, which was in the form of a video. I wasn't really involved in the video from a direction standpoint, but you could see how much effort went into it through the subteam working away, and in the final product. Now, we write a four-page essay (or if you're really daring, maybe a photoessay or collage), where we can say anything, and where we are judged instead on how good our writing is. I can put out an excellent essay of that length in under two hours with research. Also, one should think about how these will be judged. I can imagine the judges reading one submission after the other and knocking them out by process of elimination. Anyway, this is a direct result of the overexpansion of FIRST; the judges can no longer keep up.
GoDaisy341
02-12-2002, 15:39
The overall reaction I have seen is that everyone seems to enjoy this change. Everyone says "Oh well our team can write very well" and what not. Well, I also see the problem that teams couldn't afford video equiptment. But think again, FIRST stands for "for INSPIRATION and recognition of science and TECHNOLOGY" This is a big step back from what FIRST is all about. The technology has just been taken away from the Chairman's Award. Now if were not careful FIRST may go all the way back to the stone age and robots will be made out of rocks and dirt. I still firmly believe that this is the wrong choice for FIRST and the teams and team members should do something about it.
Originally posted by GoDaisy341
The overall reaction I have seen is that everyone seems to enjoy this change. Everyone says "Oh well our team can write very well" and what not. Well, I also see the problem that teams couldn't afford video equiptment. But think again, FIRST stands for "for INSPIRATION and recognition of science and TECHNOLOGY" This is a big step back from what FIRST is all about....
I beg to differ.
The Chairman's Award is not about FIRST (Technology). It's about things more than FIRST.
Read the description of the Chairman's Award.
GoDaisy341
02-12-2002, 21:54
I beg to differ.
The Chairman's Award is not about FIRST (Technology). It's about things more than FIRST.
Read the description of the Chairman's Award.
Last I checked the Chairman's Award was the greatest accomplishment next to being a National Champion. If it weren't so great I doubt there would be a picture of BUZZ on the FIRST homepage. If all it takes to accomplish such a feat is to type up a 4 page report, I find that pretty sad and would question the importance of the Chairman's Award.
Andy Baker
02-12-2002, 22:27
The Chairman's award is not about how well a team produces a video or how well they write an essay... it's the content, people!!
For example...
One team writes a very eloquent essay, possilby in poetic form, telling their story on how they mentored 2 First Lego League teams and how they participated in the July 4th parade. This essay has very good pictures and is professionally printed on glossy paper.
Another team simply puts an outline together describing that they did these things, and they write their entry simply, at a 6th grade reading level:
... turned their previous year's robot into a wheelchair for a disabled student
... gave up 1/2 of their sponsorship money to a rookie team
... implemented a science-based cirriculum based on FIRST robotics and FLL
... hosts 2 FIRST workshops per year, helping out area FIRST teams
... gives over 40 presentations per year to elementary schools, nursing homes, and local Kiwanas clubs.
... student team members partner with local Big Brothers/Big Sisters organization to provide science-related workshops for children
My experience tells me that the second team would win out for the Chairman's Award if it comes down to these two teams.
It's not about the award entry... it's about what a team does the rest of the year. For Pete's sake, don't concentrate on the entry itself... concentrate on what your team is doing to make an impact in your community.
Buzz got the Chairman's Award last year because they worked hard all year long to make an impact on the people around them, not because they had a good video. The entry exists to simply tell the story... it just needs to get the message across concisely and clearly.
Andy B.
David Kelso
03-12-2002, 06:22
Listen up,...as usual, Andy is very correct.
Redhead Jokes
03-12-2002, 10:10
Originally posted by Andy Baker
The Chairman's award is not about how well a team produces a video or how well they write an essay... it's the content, people!!
Thank you for putting into clear words what I thought.
Rich Wong
03-12-2002, 16:06
YES!!!! Andy is absolutely correct!
(a lot of team miss the point of the Chairman's Award)
:)
GoDaisy341
03-12-2002, 16:38
As FIRST's biggest mistake seems to be brainwashing the nation, Team 341 shows their content best through audio and video. Now unless they changed this as well, I remember FIRST being about teamwork. Our team is trying to use this teamwork to overcome what we see as more than just a bump in the road.
Wayne C.
03-12-2002, 16:48
Video or essay- does it really matter?
Upon reading the description of the award it clearly states that this year more than ever FIRST will be looking for the teams which uphold the FIRST ideals throughout the year.
It seems to me that if your team has been really active and has been doing work in the community on behalf of FIRST then it would be obvious. Whether or not you have a great presentation would be irrelevant.
The Autodesk award rewards a great presentation, the Chairman's Award rewards a great team.
Less worry about the award format and more worry about what it stands for seems to be in order here.
OK- off the soapbox now and back to work....
WC :cool:
D.J. Fluck
04-12-2002, 08:13
The more I think about this, the more I like this new rulling...
<edit> (Basically what Andy said above...) </edit>
I mean, some of the chairmans awards (not bashing anyone) looked really good with their professional videos, slides, etc, but the content wasn't as good as the video looked...
Now this new rulling will focus more on the content of the chairmans award, not how good the video is, or what kind of slide show you can put together..
*gives 2 thumbs up to the rulling*
Johca_Gaorl
04-12-2002, 12:40
r-u-l-i-n-g
I still am not sure...I'm a rookie, so I have actually never seen any of the old Chairman's award stuff. I think our Video team was a little disappointed, but I'm sure there will be great submissions either way.
OneAngryDaisy
04-12-2002, 22:27
even if FIRST doesn't change Chairmans back to its original format I hope they add a little award for video formatting or something...
what do you think- a 2 min or 3 min video .. thats the least they can do-
-you CAD guys have your inventor award..
-animation dudes have your animation award..
-hey- somebody's left out...
Mike Schroeder
04-12-2002, 22:50
Originally posted by GoDaisy341
As FIRST's biggest mistake seems to be brainwashing the nation, Team 341 shows their content best through audio and video. Now unless they changed this as well, I remember FIRST being about teamwork. Our team is trying to use this teamwork to overcome what we see as more than just a bump in the road.
I dont get what you mean, as long as you say: hey we did this, that and the other thing it isnt gonna make a difference how it comes out, if you have problems ask an english teacher they are ussually cool about reading over stuff and helping in general
whenter it be a video, or a paper it is still gonna show/tell what you team accomplished, not how well you made it/how much time you have to put into it
just throwing in some pocket change
Originally posted by GoDaisy341
As FIRST's biggest mistake seems to be brainwashing the nation, Team 341 shows their content best through audio and video. Now unless they changed this as well, I remember FIRST being about teamwork. Our team is trying to use this teamwork to overcome what we see as more than just a bump in the road.
I think what you meant to say was that your team uses audio and video well in putting a spin on what you do.
FIRST isn't about spin. The Chairman's Award is a spin-free zone. You did it or you didn't. There is no salesmanship here, and there shouldn't be. It's about your accomplishments, not your skills. Your accomplishments come from teamwork. Your Chairman's Award submission comes from reality.
If you want to make a video, go right ahead. If you want to win the Chairman's award, stop worrying about the submission and start worrying about the better things you could be doing with your time.
Originally posted by M. Krass
If you want to win the Chairman's award, stop worrying about the submission and start worrying about the better things you could be doing with your time.
Mr. Krass hit the nail on the head with this remark. When you have a team of 5-6 people doing videos or other high-tech presentations on your activities so that you can win the Chairman's Award, if you do not also have 50 or 60 OTHER people actually DOING the activities, you are missing the point.
The current format requires only 1-2 people for a few hours, even a small team of 14 like ours can afford that, nor will it make a big impact on our other activities. But a video style entry would have required 25-50% of our team to do properly, it just wasn't worth the effort to us.
mgreenley
05-01-2003, 11:24
yes the chairmans award is about the team, but its not about the people, its about ideas. Its about initative, and creativity. By not allowing for this in their essay format they are essentially saying that being a monotonous paper-pusher is acceptable and a goal of FIRST is to turn us into drones.
For many awards such as the buisness plans I feel that the goal of it it to present a concrete goal and for this an essay with graphs is approrriate, but for an award that signifies free thinking this is an awful regression on their part.
Aaron Knight
31-01-2003, 20:58
Well, in response to those who say there's no room for creativity...
I'm the layout editor for my school's newspaper, and I see plenty.
This is my team's first submission, so we didn't have the video edge. Instead, I'm looking at laying something out nice and well in Adobe PageMaker that will accomplish a nice polished effect with plenty of room for graphics and all that, in the allotted four pages.
This doesn't seem too difficult - and it doesn't have to necessarily be an essay, but maybe set up as a newsletter or yearbook type style that allows graphics and maybe short pieces strung together in a way that flows both visually and textually.
Just my two cents worth...
Aaron Knight, Webmaster, Team 891
Note: our current web server is down, you can look at our mirror at:
http://www33.brinkster.com/first891/
Aaron Knight
10-02-2003, 19:26
If you use a program like PageMaker or Quark, you'll come up with something plenty eye-catching enough...
Our mirror's changed (for the better): first891.topcities.com
'Later
Aaron Knight
Webmaster / Team 891
cmartin03
13-02-2003, 14:28
- All bang, no substance.
This is the first time that our team has submitted a chairman's award, and I think that the new format levels the playing field. All videos and animations do is provide for yet another virtual outlet to try and make your team look better than it is. You can say anything you want or make it appear any way you like in a video, but if you are going to convey it in words, it's a whole new ball game. You actually have to know what's really going on within your team and what it's all about.
Good luck to those of you that have become accustomed to flashy facades, because now we get to open the door and see what's really behind the scenes.
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