View Full Version : [FRC Blog] Pool Noodles for the 2017 Season
Posted on the FRC Blog (http://www.firstinspires.org/robotics/frc/blog/), 7/19/16: http://www.firstinspires.org/robotics/frc/blog/pool-noodles-2017
Pool Noodles for the 2017 Season
Written by Frank Merrick.
You'll need 'em.
Want more words than that? You will be using pool noodles for robot bumpers in the 2017 season. As in 2016, the pool noodles must be approximately 2 ½ in. diameter round, petal, or hex shaped in cross section. They may either be solid or hollow, but all noodles used on the robot at any one time will be required to be of the same construction and cross section – in other words, you will not be allowed to use solid round noodles on the bottom of your bumper and hollow petal noodles on the top.
If you are wondering what we mean by 'petal' shaped, we mean pool noodles with a cross section like this:
http://i.imgur.com/1z5jXvs.jpg
(http://www.firstinspires.org/sites/default/files/uploads/frc/Blog/2017-pool-noodle-petal.jpg)
Photo credit (http://obsessivelystitching.blogspot.com/2010/03/flower-party-decor-dollar-store-style.html)
Frank
Wow bumpers are explicitly confirmed
Wow bumpers are explicitly confirmed
To be fair, they were last year as well.
efoote868
19-07-2016, 15:37
For some reason I'm hoping there's a Ken M post on this picture... caption contest materials anyone?
To be fair, they were last year as well.
I had forgot. However, this year we also know pretty much all of the noodle rules.
ahartnet
19-07-2016, 15:41
I noticed that they were using a slide of that pool noodle for some arts and crafts sponge painting.
First clue for 2017? Now all we need is for Frank to come out and say that this was not a clue and it'll be confirmed!
Posted on the FRC Blog (http://www.firstinspires.org/robotics/frc/blog/), 7/19/16: http://www.firstinspires.org/robotics/frc/blog/pool-noodles-2017
There will be violence next year!
YAY!
2017 is a rehash of Logomotion but with petal-shaped tubes. You heard it here first folks.
Zebra_Fact_Man
19-07-2016, 16:11
Paint Game Confirmed!
Paint is usually either water-based, or oil-based. Both are liquids.
Water game confirmed!!!
(couldn't help myself)
He really meant the Bumpers will be required to float your robot. WATER GAME! Better make sure your bumper attachments are secure or your robot will sink.
I really like the petal noodles. Can we work out some kind of game hint with that?
Golfer4646
19-07-2016, 16:22
I noticed that they were using a slide of that pool noodle for some arts and crafts sponge painting.
First clue for 2017? Now all we need is for Frank to come out and say that this was not a clue and it'll be confirmed!Paint Game Confirmed!2017 is a rehash of Logomotion but with petal-shaped tubes. You heard it here first folks.
Paint is usually either water-based, or oil-based. Both are liquids.
Water game confirmed!!!He really meant the Bumpers will be required to float your robot. WATER GAME! Better make sure your bumper attachments are secure or your robot will sink.
I really like the petal noodles. Can we work out some kind of game hint with that?
Every blog post must be a game hint! Classic Chief Delphi, am I Right? :yikes: :ahh: ::rtm::
Flower Power 2017 confirmed. :P
Flower Power 2017 confirmed. :P
Tie dye team shirts?
Flower Power 2017 confirmed. :P
Is Woodie the game piece?
BBray_T1296
19-07-2016, 16:40
you will not be allowed to use solid round noodles on the bottom of your bumper and hollow petal noodles on the top.
Did this happen? That is an interesting idea.
Citrus Dad
19-07-2016, 16:42
I can think of only one reason to use pool noodles as bumpers--to float in a pool!!! Water game confirmed! :^D
Did this happen? That is an interesting idea.
I don't know, but its been a rule for several years.
AllenGregoryIV
19-07-2016, 17:07
I don't know, but its been a rule for several years.
It was put in this year 2016 (almost certain it wasn't there in 2014) to prevent teams from making almost wedged shape bumpers.
Tie dye team shirts?
So WildStang pretty much wins by default.
Mike Schreiber
19-07-2016, 17:26
Can we all take a moment to congratulate the OP for beating Ryan Hall to this post.
Is there a way to spotlight an entire thread?
sanddrag
19-07-2016, 17:31
Anyone have a cheap source for quality dense and or solid noodles? We're totally out.
itaybrodsky
19-07-2016, 17:31
aaaaaaaaa
Anyone have a cheap source for quality dense and or solid noodles? We're totally out.
http://www.andymark.com/bumper-p/am-3057_32.htm
BotDesigner
19-07-2016, 18:33
Just out of curiosity, are there any teams that don't use the round pool noodles and go with one of the other shapes? It seems to me that the shape of pool noodles in the bumpers could dramatically affect robot to robot contact and I am a little surprised that I have never seen it discussed here.
Caleb Sykes
19-07-2016, 18:37
Can we all take a moment to congratulate the OP for beating Ryan Hall to this post.
Congratulations Vale.
Somebody should probably check on Ryan to make sure he is all right.
aaaaaaaaa
good point, never considered that
Liam Fay
19-07-2016, 20:06
good point, never considered that
He makes a compelling point, but I honestly think it deserves its own thread.
Paint is usually either water-based, or oil-based. Both are liquids.
Water game confirmed!!!
(couldn't help myself)
Thanks for that, now I realize that's just what they want us to think!
Powder coat game double-confirmed!!!
Edit:
I can think of only one reason to use pool noodles as bumpers--to float in a pool!!! Water game confirmed! :^D
Citrus Dad can only think of one reason? I smell troll...
Can we all take a moment to congratulate the OP for beating Ryan Hall to this post.
And yes, congrats to Vale!
Just out of curiosity, are there any teams that don't use the round pool noodles and go with one of the other shapes? It seems to me that the shape of pool noodles in the bumpers could dramatically affect robot to robot contact and I am a little surprised that I have never seen it discussed here.
I was wondering this too. I feel like the flower noodles would be better served to compress a bit more over the round noodles, which might help in playing defense. Has anybody conducted an impromptu study on this?
I was wondering this too. I feel like the flower noodles would be better served to compress a bit more over the round noodles, which might help in playing defense. Has anybody conducted an impromptu study on this?
I haven't seen flower noodles in local stores in any diameter. We have enough trouble finding anything between 2-1/4" and 2-3/4" in round to worry about shapes.
Chris is me
20-07-2016, 08:53
Just out of curiosity, are there any teams that don't use the round pool noodles and go with one of the other shapes? It seems to me that the shape of pool noodles in the bumpers could dramatically affect robot to robot contact and I am a little surprised that I have never seen it discussed here.
The bigger issue is really solid versus hollow - solid bumper noodles compress less and resist T-Bone pins, but hollow bumper noodles compress more and are better for performing said pins and other defensive maneuvers.
If I were so hyper-competitive that I wanted to give my robotics team every edge possible, I'd consider making one of each and switching bumpers based on strategy. But I don't know if I want to put in that much effort.
Tartan47
20-07-2016, 09:56
If I were so hyper-competitive that I wanted to give my robotics team every edge possible, I'd consider making one of each and switching bumpers based on strategy. But I don't know if I want to put in that much effort.
They may either be solid or hollow, but all noodles used on the robot at any one time will be required to be of the same construction and cross section – in other words, you will not be allowed to use solid round noodles on the bottom of your bumper and hollow petal noodles on the top.
I believe the strategy Chris mentioned would still be allowed in 2017? (Assuming one were willing to make 4 sets of bumpers for Red/Blue and Offensive/Defensive)
Pure speculation, but I'm wondering if solid noodles on bottom and hollow noodles on top would allow a robot to have a better chance of "getting under" an opposing robot depending on that robot's bumper height and this could aid in a pushing match
Pure speculation, but I'm wondering if solid noodles on bottom and hollow noodles on top would allow a robot to have a better chance of "getting under" an opposing robot depending on that robot's bumper height and this could aid in a pushing match
Not a good strategy at all. If you go into a season with the intention of "getting under" other robots, I can all but guarantee you will end up with at least one red card for tipping. It was bad enough as is this year with the large bumper zone and most robots were not even top heavy.
notmattlythgoe
20-07-2016, 10:15
Not a good strategy at all. If you go into a season with the intention of "getting under" other robots, I can all but guarantee you will end up with at least one red card for tipping. It was bad enough as is this year with the large bumper zone and most robots were not even top heavy.
That was the strategy previously. It often resulted in a red card for the other team because of contact inside of your frame perimeter. This happened decently often in 2014.
Mike Schreiber
20-07-2016, 10:16
I believe the strategy Chris mentioned would still be allowed in 2017? (Assuming one were willing to make 4 sets of bumpers for Red/Blue and Offensive/Defensive)
Pure speculation, but I'm wondering if solid noodles on bottom and hollow noodles on top would allow a robot to have a better chance of "getting under" an opposing robot depending on that robot's bumper height and this could aid in a pushing match
How does 2 sets of each color work with weigh in?
Yes solid on bottom and hollow on top and pulling the fabric as tight as possible makes your bumpers a slight wedge and is likely why this was ruled illegal. I believe 469 did this on their world champion 2014 robot.
Chris is me
20-07-2016, 10:18
How does 2 sets of each color work with weigh in?
Yes solid on bottom and hollow on top and pulling the fabric as tight as possible makes your bumpers a slight wedge and is likely why this was ruled illegal. I believe 469 did this on their world champion 2014 robot.
I thought the weight limit was per bumper assembly?
Regardless, you could just have two reversible bumpers.
Pure speculation, but I'm wondering if solid noodles on bottom and hollow noodles on top would allow a robot to have a better chance of "getting under" an opposing robot depending on that robot's bumper height and this could aid in a pushing match
Not allowed in 2016 rules, and apparently not in 2017, either:
They may either be solid or hollow, but all noodles used on the robot at any one time will be required to be of the same construction and cross section – in other words, you will not be allowed to use solid round noodles on the bottom of your bumper and hollow petal noodles on the top.
Chris is me
20-07-2016, 10:23
Not allowed in 2016 rules, and apparently not in 2017, either:
Yes, this is literally the subject of the thread, and the reason the discussion even started. It's been mentioned in just about every post. He literally quoted the post stating it was illegal in the post you are responding to.
notmattlythgoe
20-07-2016, 10:24
Not allowed in 2016 rules, and apparently not in 2017, either:
I believe he knew this and was just speculating on why it was made illegal.
I thought the weight limit was per bumper assembly?
Regardless, you could just have two reversible bumpers.
It is per set of bumpers. I had just checked because I was unsure of that as well. (Per 2016 rules).
There is space on the robot inspection form to weigh two set of bumpers. RIs tend to go by the inspection form & not like anything that doesn't fit on the form. You would probably get by with two sets of reversible bumpers. Absent something specific in the rules or Q&A, I think more than two sets is iffy and would depend on the LRI at the event. Insert the usual disclaimer about prior years rules.
There is space on the robot inspection form to weigh two set of bumpers. RIs tend to go by the inspection form & not like anything that doesn't fit on the form. You would probably get by with two sets of reversible bumpers. Absent something specific in the rules or Q&A, I think more than two sets is iffy and would depend on the LRI at the event. Insert the usual disclaimer about prior years rules.
I would say per 2016, >2 sets of bumpers are pretty clearly allowed. Relevant rules are R20 and R27. As long as a team is prepared with the rules, they should have no problem with the majority of LRIs.
I would say per 2016, >2 sets of bumpers are pretty clearly allowed. Relevant rules are R20 and R27. As long as a team is prepared with the rules, they should have no problem with the majority of LRIs.
You might well be right. But the only LRI that matters is the one at your event. They as always have the option of discussing that with Al or First. A few years ago, somebody thought that about using batteries for ballast. The confusion cost them in the eliminations.
AllenGregoryIV
20-07-2016, 14:07
It came up at one of my events before when a team decided to make a new set of bumpers at the event in addition to the ones they already had. I had no issue with it.
Can we all take a moment to congratulate the OP for beating Ryan Hall to this post.
Congratulations Vale.
Somebody should probably check on Ryan to make sure he is all right.
Alive and well, no worries. Just busy with work. I should note that Vale gave me fair warning before she posted this thread, but I was out all day with no computer access. We'll see what happens next time. :rolleyes:
Jon Stratis
21-07-2016, 08:41
It came up at one of my events before when a team decided to make a new set of bumpers at the event in addition to the ones they already had. I had no issue with it.
I wouldn't have a problem with it either, given the way the rules are currently written.
Did anyone click the "Photo Credit" link? It may contain some hints...there is a "Happy Birthday" banner, and FIRST will be 25 years old. After looking at the hints, I've reached the conclusion that next year, there will be a water game.
Or maybe not. A more reasonable prediction...
Starting in 2010, there has been a game piece pattern. Spheres in the even numbered years, and other pieces in the odd numbered years:
2010 - Soccer balls
2011 - Inflatable triangle-, circle-, and square-shaped tubes
2012 - Foam basketballs
2013 - Frisbees
2014 - Exercise balls
2015 - Totes, recycling/trash cans, and noodles
2016 - Gopher SoftiBalls, AKA Boulders
I predict that the game piece(s) will not be spheres. Maybe triangle shaped or a cube. There are bumpers, so there will be robot-to-robot contact. AndyMark recently released the Peanut Chasis, with a four wheel tank drive that has two omnis at one end. A kiwi drive kit was also released. I'm thinking that the field will be (mostly)flat, at least where the robots will be driving, as omnis don't like traversing rough terrain(pun intended). I also think that there will be tight spaces that robots will probably drive into and out of, making smaller chassis, easy turning, and holonomic drivetrains important. Back to the credit link, which was about a flower-themed party. Most flowers are small, so another hint that there will be tight spaces and maybe smaller robots. Unless this is just to throw us and it will be the opposite...
TL;DR: Flat field, non-spherical game piece(s), tight spaces, maybe smaller robots.
P.S. Congratulations Vale for beating Ryan Hall to the post! :D
troy_dietz
21-07-2016, 22:09
This phenomena is widely known and has sparked a number of threads over the years. This is one of the most in depth observations: https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144381&highlight=4+year+cycle+game+high+school+career
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