View Full Version : Why the Conflicting Date?
phantom285a
20-07-2016, 03:06
Hi,
So I'm sure you all know that champs will be held on 2 different dates / locations. I personally have no opinion on this happening. What I am wondering is why have the the Houston world championship be on literally the exact same week as Vex Worlds? I am going to be a competitor in both and I really don't like the idea of having to choose which championship I should go to. (In the case my team gets into both, of course) That scenario is not going to happen often but it will happen to some students, so why make them have to choose? I'm sure executives of First were aware of the conflicting date so why do it? And why only to southern teams?
If there was a thread already on this, please redirect me to that, but I couldn't find it.
Thanks.
Steven Smith
20-07-2016, 03:34
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136756
As requested, but there isn't a huge amount of extra information.
At the end of the day, both competitions deal with trying to stay away from AP exams in May, and holidays like Easter, as well as venue availability. Unless FIRST was to shorten build season (with its own problems) or shorten competition season (which forces more events in a smaller window, requiring more volunteers, more fields etc), then there ends up with a pretty narrow window to fit in the Championship events.
waialua359
20-07-2016, 05:35
Hi,
So I'm sure you all know that champs will be held on 2 different dates / locations. I personally have no opinion on this happening. What I am wondering is why have the the Houston world championship be on literally the exact same week as Vex Worlds? I am going to be a competitor in both and I really don't like the idea of having to choose which championship I should go to. (In the case my team gets into both, of course) That scenario is not going to happen often but it will happen to some students, so why make them have to choose? I'm sure executives of First were aware of the conflicting date so why do it? And why only to southern teams?
If there was a thread already on this, please redirect me to that, but I couldn't find it.
Thanks.
I think it goes without saying that a lot of factors affect how dates are chosen, venues are selected, and competitions are setup.
As Steven mentioned, there are factors that also constrain when the Championships could take place.
We were in the situation in 2014, where we arguably had our best VEX robot ever and won our Hawaii State Championships, only to make the tough decision to turn it down because we decided to attend FRC Championships instead. With a 3 banner season in FRC that year, our students decided that they wanted to go to FRC that year.
Hopefully a solution or set of solutions will be established in the next several months to help teams that do both, be able to do both should they qualify.
Mike Schreiber
20-07-2016, 10:51
This would be a good example of a reason to request FIRST to allow you to go to St. Louis or Detroit half champs in the future. Perhaps that's a provision they will allow for teams that do both. Probably a good question for Frank.
phantom285a
20-07-2016, 14:24
" This would be a good example of a reason to request FIRST to allow you to go to St. Louis or Detroit half champs in the future. Perhaps that's a provision they will allow for teams that do both. Probably a good question for Frank."
That could never happen. I live in Houston, and there is no way I can convince either my mentors or non-vex teammates out of the convenience of staying in Houston.
Why not hold the championships in the same week? It sounds hectic, but surely it would be a better alternative to conflicting with the vex championship. Plus, I think it would be pretty cool to see how your "championship double" plays out as you do.
Andrew Schreiber
20-07-2016, 14:27
" This would be a good example of a reason to request FIRST to allow you to go to St. Louis or Detroit half champs in the future. Perhaps that's a provision they will allow for teams that do both. Probably a good question for Frank."
That could never happen. I live in Houston, and there is no way I can convince either my mentors or non-vex teammates out of the convenience of staying in Houston.
Why not hold the championships in the same week? It sounds hectic, but surely it would be a better alternative to conflicting with the vex championship. Plus, I think it would be pretty cool to see how your "championship double" plays out as you do.
Ha... ha ha. No. It's gonna be impossible to find enough volunteers for two of these things back to back weeks. The same week? I'm pretty sure the VCs would murder people.
phantom285a
20-07-2016, 14:29
So there is basically no solution to this?
Sperkowsky
20-07-2016, 14:39
So there is basically no solution to this?
There is a solution.
Its called bring back single Champs
But.... It's not happening
Greg Needel
20-07-2016, 14:41
So there is basically no solution to this?
I know that this will be a disappointment to many people who wish to attend both, but I highly doubt either event will move their dates in the near term as the planning and logistics for these events takes years to setup.
I also think its again important to point out that VEX/RECF and FIRST are two different non-profit organizations, each with their own staff/people/and budgets. While there has traditionally been quite a few schools that participate in both schools, I would guess that that is the minority not the norm now. As they are two independent entities I don't think it is reasonable for either to make special consideration just for what could be a small minority of students to participate in both programs.
The way that I look at it between both programs (and all the others like BEST, botball, etc) we only have ~10% of schools in the USA (worse internationally) with any sort of team (FRC, FTC, VEX etc). With those stats, we should be focused on trying to accommodate the schools that don't have any robotics programs rather than the schools that have multiple ones.
I am sorry that you personally (and your team) will have to choose but I know that regardless of which one you choose you will have a great life experience.
At least it only conflicts with Houston once, though that may not be of any consolation to if you are a senior. The two years after that it conflicts with Detroit, so it is actually worse for northern teams.
There is a solution.
Its called bring back single Champs
But.... It's not happening
Even with single champs, VEX Worlds and FIRST Worlds fell on the same weekend in 2014.
Anupam Goli
20-07-2016, 14:50
So there is basically no solution to this?
You may have to make a compromise or decision based on how your programs do in the season, like Glenn shared. The other solution is, like others have said, is to put in a request to attend North Champs so your team can attend both an FRC Championship and VEX Worlds. Talk with your mentors and see which options everyone prefers.
Michael Corsetto
20-07-2016, 14:52
I know that this will be a disappointment to many people who wish to attend both, but I highly doubt either event will move their dates in the near term as the planning and logistics for these events takes years to setup.
I also think its again important to point out that VEX/RECF and FIRST are two different non-profit organizations, each with their own staff/people/and budgets. While there has traditionally been quite a few schools that participate in both schools, I would guess that that is the minority not the norm now. As they are two independent entities I don't think it is reasonable for either to make special consideration just for what could be a small minority of students to participate in both programs.
The way that I look at it between both programs (and all the others like BEST, botball, etc) we only have ~10% of schools in the USA (worse internationally) with any sort of team (FRC, FTC, VEX etc). With those stats, we should be focused on trying to accommodate the schools that don't have any robotics programs rather than the schools that have multiple ones.
I am sorry that you personally (and your team) will have to choose but I know that regardless of which one you choose you will have a great life experience.
The counter is that IFI/Vex is a long-standing sponsor of FIRST and FIRST Teams. I know FIRST did not consult long-time sponsors like IFI before making the Split-Champs announcement.
If I remember correctly, didn't Vex/RECF move their CMP a few years back to accommodate the dates that FIRST selected for the CMP? Don't remember what year that was.
FIRST decided to take up BOTH prime-time weekends in April for their Super Regionals. I have developed ideas about this choice that can not be proven but color my view of this decision.
-Mike
Availability of large convention space is very limited and competitive. Events book years in advance with multi year contracts. Vex and FIRST both have limited dates they can even choose. It's close to impossible to not have some some kind of conflict.
The qualification for FRC & VEX continues to become more competitive. There will only be a small number of students that qualify for both events.
Even in previous years, students could rarely attend back to back events and miss two consecutive weeks of school.
FIRST decided to take up BOTH prime-time weekends in April for their Super Regionals. I have developed ideas about this choice that can not be proven but color my view of this decision.
-Mike
As others have said, there are not a lot options for when to hold the championships. It has to be a week after the end of season to allow transportation. AP exams are early May and you cannot conflict with that. I am sure Vex has the same issues.
As a realistic thing, I wonder how teams actually have this quandary? Being eligible for both events. have the resources to attend both events, and or able to take off that much time from school.
Michael Corsetto
20-07-2016, 16:06
As others have said, there are not a lot options for when to hold the championships. It has to be a week after the end of season to allow transportation. AP exams are early May and you cannot conflict with that. I am sure Vex has the same issues.
As a realistic thing, I wonder how teams actually have this quandary? Being eligible for both events. have the resources to attend both events, and or able to take off that much time from school.
Beyond teams, there are Volunteer, Key Volunteer, and Sponsor pools that are impacted by conflicting FIRST and Vex Champs.
-Mike
Ha... ha ha. No. It's gonna be impossible to find enough volunteers for two of these things back to back weeks. The same week? I'm pretty sure the VCs would murder people.
As well as the fact the ven diagram of VEX and FIRST volunteers has a big overlap.
First goes back to one true championship. Problem solved. ;)
First goes back to one true championship. Problem solved. ;)
Even with single champs, VEX Worlds and FIRST Worlds fell on the same weekend in 2014.
..
phantom285a
20-07-2016, 18:00
"At least it only conflicts with Houston once, though that may not be of any consolation to if you are a senior. The two years after that it conflicts with Detroit, so it is actually worse for northern teams."
April 19-22, 2017 – Houston, TX
April 26-29, 2017 – St. Louis, MO
April 18-21, 2018 – Houston, TX
April 25-28, 2018 – Detroit, MI
Not really :(
But as Andrew pointed out it definitely wouldn't be a smart idea to miss two consecutive weeks of school.
No. It's gonna be impossible to find enough volunteers for two of these things back to back weeks. The same week? I'm pretty sure the VCs would murder people.
I don't think they'd murder them... (OK, maybe whoever came up with that bright idea.)
They're far more likely to volunteer them (or, more likely, press-gang them into volunteering).
If they're the same weekend, you need to recruit a full and complete volunteer contingent for both events, and you can't overlap the contingents. If they're back-to-back... Well, some folks might be crazy enough to do both.
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