Where will/should nationals be?

[Ricky Q.]

With an announcement expected to come this week, and this being Election Day, lets get the votes going...where will/should it be?

If your choice isn't on the poll, put it in a reply...

[Bill Gold]

Somewhere in CA :D

[Johca_Gaorl]

I say FL, but if not, my second choice would definitely be Las Vegas, that would be an excellent area to go to.

[FotoPlasma]

Originally posted by Bill Gold
Somewhere in CA :D

Toronto? Montreal?

Oh, wait... California... nevermind...

I'd like Disney World, but the only real thing I wouldn't go for would be Las Vegas...

[D.J. Fluck]

Oconomowoc, WI!!

build a giant island in the middle of the lake!
Party at Ricky's house, it will be all good :p

Actually, Id like a change lets see it in Houston. Houston is almost the in the central part of the US, so airfare rates should be roughly the same for someone coming from the far east and someone coming from the far west (Im not a travel agent, I don’t check rates as of late so don’t quote me). Plus Houston is a nice city, busy, but nice. You could take trips down to Galveston Island, Johnson Space Center, Astroworld, and for the people who can't live without shopping, the Galleria (sp?) (The big mall of Houston).

[E. The Kidd]

N.Y.C.

'nuff said

[Kevin Sevcik]

You forgot the best part of having nats in Houston. We could rent out Astroworld for the team party, complete with rides and everything. Sadly, Galveston would be a bit far for a trip for the kids. It's about an hour's drive away. The Galleria is ok for entertainment, though. atleast.. there's an ice rink and restaurants in addition to shopping. Anywhos... sorry, I've gotta root for my home town.

[Madison]

Originally posted by Kevin Sevcik
You forgot the best part of having nats in Houston. We could rent out Astroworld for the team party, complete with rides and everything. Sadly, Galveston would be a bit far for a trip for the kids. It's about an hour's drive away. The Galleria is ok for entertainment, though. atleast.. there's an ice rink and restaurants in addition to shopping. Anywhos... sorry, I've gotta root for my home town.

Astroworld is the red-headed step child of the Six Flags chain.

I love amusement parks in an unhealthy manner, and Astroworld doesn't even excite me. I'd take Epcot back any day of the week.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally posted by M. Krass
......is the red-headed step child.....

Did someone call me again???

[purplehaze357]

i say Fla. just because it is big enough for us hooligans and it keeps us entertained....stick with what works...but DW def. needs to think about lowering their packaging prices instead of raising them...

2nd choice.....definitly Las Vegas Nevada baby.....

[Shana]

My first choice would go with the tradition of nats in Orlando. If not there my next choice would be Washington DC, it just seems like the most FIRST friendly. Nevada would be ok but its really expensive there. I've never heard of Oconomowoc and Houston might be flooding at that time. What about Cali though, they have many amusment type sites there and places big enough to hold us i'm sure, depending on where in Cali:)

~SHANA~

[OneAngryDaisy]

My only request is for a place that can hold everyone...

Why doesn't FIRST buy a island like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1768994207
and then build an enormous complex!

that'd be awesome.. only its all about $$.. money.. cash.. moolah.. whatever you call it..

[Melissa Nute]

I say Florida b/c that is the only way I will be able to go if my team doesn't...

[D.J. Fluck]

Originally posted by Shana
I've never heard of Oconomowoc


Most people havent...

Its a tiny town slightly west of Milwaukee, about 12,000 people

(its a joke, cause the thread starter is from Oconomowoc) :D



<Edit>
Originally posted by Kevin Sevcik
Sadly, Galveston would be a bit far for a trip for the kids.

It's no different than teams than the teams staying in orlando going to the beach for a day, its about as far and I know for a fact that many teams do that (if they dont fly back that day)

We have never done it though, we usually used up the remainder on the park hopper passes

[Johca_Gaorl]

I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on why they don't wanna go to vegas (if that's the opinion they hold)

[mtaman02]

Originally posted by team 713
N.Y.C.

'nuff said


FL 1st choice
TX 2nd choice
NYC 3rd choice

[FotoPlasma]

Originally posted by Johca_Gaorl
I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on why they don't wanna go to vegas (if that's the opinion they hold)

Las Vegas is the festering hol^Hme of greed, decadence, and immorality in the United States. As I've said at least a few times before, I would much rather support Eisner than any of Las Vegas.

[Shana]

Originally posted by Johca_Gaorl
I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on why they don't wanna go to vegas (if that's the opinion they hold)

Las Vegas is a dump in the middle of the ugliest desert I've ever seen. It has nothing to do there for minors that won't make them spend more than they want to. The only plus side are all of the buffets but really how many people eat during Nationals or even regionals for that matter. To sum it all up even though Vegas would make it easier/cheaper for my team and a lot of West coast teams to get there its not in the best interest of FIRST. When one mentions Disney World people think pure and good, when people hear Las Vegas though they think of alcohol, gambling and evil for some, not really the image FIRST wants.

[MattK]

HOOKSETT NH BABY! H-TOWN!

You guys can crash @ my house, BYOB (Bring Your Own Bot)

[Joe Matt]

Frankly, it's MY opinion, and I'm not FIRST.

Second, I still stick with Diseny. It's cheeper in the long run and has the most options for the money. Entertainment is the real plus and the environment and the name alone is worth a lot to FIRST.

[Joe Matt]

Originally posted by FotoPlasma


Las Vegas is the festering hol^Hme of greed, decadence, and immorality in the United States. As I've said at least a few times before, I would much rather support Eisner than any of Las Vegas.

Amen Foto! I hate him too! :D

[Kevin Sevcik]

cheaper for who? FIRST? The teams?

Remember, last year a team had to pay extra to go to the wrap party if they didn't buy one of the outrageously overpriced Disney packages. My team stayed off Disney property, and we had rooms witha kitchen, living room, and 2 bedrooms. And it was STILL cheaper than a Disney package. Then we went to Medieval Times for our party.

Also, and this one is purely my opinion, but I can't believe that running things at Disney is all that cheap. C'mon. You have to pay for setting up huge tents, laying all that flooring, running generators and A/Cs all day. It almost HAS to be cheaper to run it in a big convention center with a roof already there, and power and A/C built in.

[Joe Matt]

Originally posted by Kevin Sevcik
cheaper for who? FIRST? The teams?

Remember, last year a team had to pay extra to go to the wrap party if they didn't buy one of the outrageously overpriced Disney packages. My team stayed off Disney property, and we had rooms witha kitchen, living room, and 2 bedrooms. And it was STILL cheaper than a Disney package. Then we went to Medieval Times for our party.

Also, and this one is purely my opinion, but I can't believe that running things at Disney is all that cheap. C'mon. You have to pay for setting up huge tents, laying all that flooring, running generators and A/Cs all day. It almost HAS to be cheaper to run it in a big convention center with a roof already there, and power and A/C built in.

Cheeper for everyone. When you add plane tickets to other places, hotel rooms that might not be available, and other things, you'll get teams being ripped off and loosing money.

[D.J. Fluck]

Originally posted by JosephM


Cheeper for everyone. When you add plane tickets to other places, hotel rooms that might not be available, and other things, you'll get teams being ripped off and loosing money.


How do you figure that?

Is 78 hotels within 15-20 minutes of central Houston, with rates starting at $39.95 a night not enough for teams???? :confused:

[Joe Matt]

Originally posted by D.J. Fluck



How do you figure that?

Is 78 hotels within 15-20 minutes of central Houston, with rates starting at $39.95 a night not enough for teams???? :confused:

Enter in other conventions, the suply and demand factor, and quailty (most of the rooms will be too expensive).

And you can read the other post that Huston has NO, and I mean NO flight options there.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I just don't buy the no flight options thing. just out of Intercontinental, you've got American, Continental, Delta, Northwest, Southwest, and United. Not to mention about a dozen others.... and then Air Tran flies into Hobby. And as for hotels. There's tons of hotels. The cheap ones will be about the same size as an All-Star room at Disney, and if you want bigger you can always stay at one of the Studio ones. And do you really think FIRST wouldn't work out packages and transportation with hotels? I'm pretty sure other conventions do that, so there's no reason FIRST can't as well. Honestly... I don't know why people think Disney is such a good deal....

[D.J. Fluck]

Well, if a team wants to pay under $150 a night (37.50 a day per person) There are 60+ Hotels (Wyndham/ Embassy Suites)



Theres 45+ hotels under $120 a night ( Hampton Inn type hotels)

Also, La Quinta and Holiday Inn-like hotels start at 69.95 a night (roughly $17.50 per person!)

A fact about George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston:
"IAH provides non-stop service to over 150 cities around the world and is the 13th busiest commercial airport in the U.S."

It may only be a statistic, but there is plenty of evidence to back it up.

[Johca_Gaorl]

Disney is a great place and all, I like it there. But if you think it is a good deal (or any amusment park for that matter) than you are blissfully naive. :rolleyes:

[Joe Matt]

1.) Statistics, yes, but I have seen only a few flights go to Huston in all my travels.

2.) ASTROWORLD? Are you nuts? Sure, first Six Flags, but dear god! Six Flags is a dump! I've been to WoA and that's one to manny for me.

3.) Hotels. SUPPLY AND DEMAND. People want more hotel rooms near the nats, thus they'll up the prices beyond the nice price of $69 per night (All Stars is only $74)

[Johca_Gaorl]

Originally posted by JosephM
1.) Statistics, yes, but I have seen only a few flights go to Huston in all my travels.

Well, I'm pretty sure Houston is a bigger airport than richmond.

[D.J. Fluck]

Originally posted by JosephM
1.) Statistics, yes, but I have seen only a few flights go to Huston in all my travels.

2.) ASTROWORLD? Are you nuts? Sure, first Six Flags, but dear god! Six Flags is a dump! I've been to WoA and that's one to manny for me.

3.) Hotels. SUPPLY AND DEMAND. People want more hotel rooms near the nats, thus they'll up the prices beyond the nice price of $69 per night (All Stars is only $74)



1. There are 5 or 6 flights out of the fairly small Indianapolis Intl airport on a daily basis to both Orlando and Houston.

2. Who cares, you dont need to go to an amusement park while your down there, remember disney world's parks aren't the whole reason for going there. Anyway there is plenty of other things to do while you are down there anyway.

3. Don't quote me on this, but i am pretty sure the rates were a bit higher than $74 a night for All Star during the championship last year, anyway FIRST is going to work out package deals with hotels in the area, its almost a given. Plus there are group rates and everything..

[Joe Matt]

Originally posted by Johca_Gaorl


Well, I'm pretty sure Houston is a bigger airport than richmond.

But what about Charolet, Cleveland, Orlando, Philidelphia, Pittsburg, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Las Angeles, Anaheim, and many others.

[D.J. Fluck]

Originally posted by JosephM


But what about Charolet, Cleveland, Orlando, Philidelphia, Pittsburg, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Las Angeles, Anaheim, and many others.

Are you suggesting one of those as the location for the championship?


A: Because Texas is a more centralized location

OR

are you talking about flights?

A: On November 14th (random date i selected) 220 flights will start at LA and end up in Houston, with some detouring in Charolette and Phoenix (although some of the cheaper flights have 5 or 6 detours)

[Johca_Gaorl]

Originally posted by JosephM
But what about Charolet, Cleveland, Orlando, Philidelphia, Pittsburg, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Las Angeles, Anaheim, and many others.

All large airports, I didn't realize you traveled so much. However, I see quite a few flights to Houston and I travel a lot also, as my dad lives in WA state and was in the miltary 22 years.

Houston
13th largest airport by passengers and movements (more than anything in FL)

This is in the WORLD by the way, so essentially, you are wrong :D
No hard feelings.

info from www.airports.org (use the traffic data thing on the left)

[Madison]

Originally posted by JosephM


2.) ASTROWORLD? Are you nuts? Sure, first Six Flags, but dear god! Six Flags is a dump! I've been to WoA and that's one to manny for me.



Six Flags over Texas was the first Six Flags park. It opened on August 4, 1961. Astroworld opened four years later, on June 1, 1965. It didn't become a member of the Six Flags family until 1975.

There are some very, very nice Six Flags parks. It's more about management than it is about being a chain. Six Flags over Georgia is gorgeous and has amazing rides. Six Flags Darien Lake is also very pretty, but it's a much smaller park plagued by an awful wooden coaster and a clone.

Astroworld's problems are two-fold, from what I can see. First, it has a bad reputation for cleanliness among enthusiasts. This uncleanliness doesn't make the environment fun.

Second, and perhaps more importantly, it also doesn't produce a lot of revenue for the chain. As a result, it receives very little attention. Many of its rides come from the old Bally Ride Rotation program that was going on during the mid-1980's. Batman: The Escape came from Six Flags Magic Mountain via Six Flags Great Adventure. Ultratwister came from Six Flags Great Adventure, but was modified to meet local fire codes (the lift hill was redesigned to be at a 45 degree angle to facilitate evacuations in case of fire versus the original 90 degree lift). Excalibur, the park's first coaster, was removed in favor a Vekoma SLC (another clone.)

Astroworld's shining star was Texas Tornado. This coaster is a portable fair coaster that traveled a lot with German fairs. Six Flags bought it and brought it to Houston in 1998. It operated for less than one week, and then Six Flags decided to try to redesign its trains to make riders more comfortable, and possibly reduce the forces involved in the ride. Texas Tornado was the most powerful coaster in existence.

I've just learned that, as of this morning, Six Flags Astroworld has begun dismantling Texas Tornado. RIP.

Now, really, I can think of no reason whatsoever I'd like to go to Astroworld.

[D.J. Fluck]

Originally posted by M. Krass


I've just learned that, as of this morning, Six Flags Astroworld has begun dismantling Texas Tornado. RIP.



You have got to be kidding?!!

That ride was awesome

[evulish]

Bah. Airplanes. Who needs em? Take a bus! :) (That's how we got from PA->FL :P) Huh. 24 hours on a bus isn't as much fun as it sounds :)

[Eric Bareiss]

I don't care where it is as long as there's robots.

[Mike Schroeder]

Hey time to throw in what ever change is in my pockets




okkk Disney=good parks nice Internationally known arena


Huston= A park and an Intertionally known arena (plus you can tell your football team that you played in the Astrodome and they didnt)


The way I look at it is this (disscussed in an earlier thread) Disney supplies a location with increased saftey at all times (on of the main reasons that the $$ goes ^ is prob the increased load it has and the amount of staff they must provide)


Huston, Pheniox, where ever else...... will Provide security while at competition so after that your teams are SOL

BUT and i mean a BIG BUT (not me)

who cares If First is gonna hold the nats in Huston Pheniox or or my back yard for that matter, teams are still gonna go and still have a good time out of this so if that is a bad thing (having fun) dont go to disney world for the nats either just sit at home and wonder what if


(i have a cold and a temp and all that good stuff and i am chocked full of Drugs (the good over the counter kinds) so if no of this makes sense let me know (email aim anyhting i dont care) and will explain)


now if you dont mind i am going to sleep until i gotta wake up and goto work or somthing i dont remember

[Andy Baker]

Originally posted by Mr.Volcano
[COLOR=darkblue]
who cares If First is gonna hold the nats in Huston Pheniox or or my back yard for that matter, teams are still gonna go and still have a good time

Exactly. Mr. Volcano erupts with wisdom.

They could hold this thing in a cornfield in Kansas and we would all still have a ball. The inspiration we all experience is though the interaction between people, no matter where we "play". FIRST is not about robots or which roller coaster we get to ride... it is about people.

AB

[Madison]

Originally posted by Andy Baker


FIRST is not about robots or which roller coaster we get to ride... it is about people.

AB

Oh, sure - maybe for you :p

I focus a lot on the extracurricular activities associated with competitions because I'm not particularly good at handling competition. It drives me crazy in so many different ways. By that time, I want to be there to support my team - by cheering, or fixing, or talking it up with others - but I also need a break. Competition isn't my place to shine. That opportunity belongs to my team members and my robot. I'd much rather be watching from the sidelines, or otherwise keeping myself sane than having another breakdown in front of the whole world.

But, admittedly, if FIRST were full of people just like me, it would probably never work. Don't be like me, kids. I'm bad.

[Joe Matt]

You're not that bad Micheal :D

I'm also kinda like that, I try to work, but then I just crash. Too much stress and too much agony. It's like being a doctor, anymoment, at anytime, anything can go wrong.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally posted by Andy Baker
FIRST is not about robots or which roller coaster we get to ride... it is about people.

AB

Yes but it is about lots of young people that need something (semi-constructive) to do in the off-time of competition weekends. Just imagine if the amout of people who went to Nats. were just left with nothing to do in the off-time.

I know we are all people who belong to a great organization with great values known as FIRST, but everyone get's bored. And when you get bored you tend to do stupid things. Just think if the extra-curricular activities that are at a place like Disney are not there this year. There will be a lot of people doing Stupid things, It's human nature.

"One bad apple ruins the whole bunch"

All I ask, is to let us apples have something fun to do when we are done with a long day of intense competition.

^My 2 cents!!!

[Dave Flowerday]

Yes but it is about lots of young people that need something (semi-constructive) to do in the off-time of competition weekends. Just imagine if the amout of people who went to Nats. were just left with nothing to do in the off-time.

Back when I was a student on the Holland High/Haworth team, I distinctly remember the most fun, most exciting competition that I attended being the Midwest regional. It was my (and our program's) 3rd year and it was the first time we'd gone to a competition other than Nationals. There was just something really awesome about the crowd being really close to the field, and the bleachers being full and noisy. I think a lot of students who go to Disney are allowed to leave the competition and go into the parks during the day as long as they're back for their own robot's matches. If the distraction of the parks wasn't there, we'd have everyone watching the matches, cheering teams on. Maybe teams would get to know other teams better.

Why is it that we need something "fun" like Disney to supplement the competition? I always thought the competition itself was more than enough fun. Besides, how much time is there to fill at night after the competition? After you go back to the hotel and get some dinner, the evening's mostly gone by then. I know by that time I was usually so wiped out that I just wanted to watch a little TV and go to bed to be rested up for the next day!

[Joe Matt]

Originally posted by Dave Flowerday

Why is it that we need something "fun" like Disney to supplement the competition? I always thought the competition itself was more than enough fun. Besides, how much time is there to fill at night after the competition? After you go back to the hotel and get some dinner, the evening's mostly gone by then. I know by that time I was usually so wiped out that I just wanted to watch a little TV and go to bed to be rested up for the next day!

We need something to entertain us. Simple as that. Sure, you get tired, but some of us will party untill 4 am if we could. The simple fact remains that the option of Disney is there, you can go, or you can stay at the hotel. As many locations we recomended, many activites are far away, unreachable by foot, not open after the pits close, and other things.

Sure, we can go to see one thing here and there at Huston, but MANY things close after the pits. And many kids will want to do something. That's when FIRST will get a bad name.

It dosn't matter how manny Brandon's there are in the world, or how many Kamen's, the fact is that once we screw up one thing, it will haunt us untill we disban. It's a fact of life. Keep it cool at Disney, or risk screwing up at a city and loosing the privalage of going somewhere for nats.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Umm.. don't the Disney parks close shortly after the pits close? I remember never using my park hopper cause the parks closed an hour after the pits or something. And after the parks close, all you've got left is Downtown Disney. I suppose shopping and restaurants are fun, but you can get that with a short trip to the Galleria or something. You'd have to ride a bus at Disney anyways, and I'm sure the package hotels would have transportation arrangements if it were in Houston.

Basically, I'm saying that I don't think there was really much to do at Disney after the pits closed either.

Also, I fail to see how boring some of the kids at nationals hurts our cause. If kids are bored cause they can't run off to a Disney park and ignore the competition the just spent 10 weeks doing.... Except of course when their coaches demand that they return to watch their robot's matches. Well I don't think the message has really gotten through to those kids. It would seem to me that they just got on a team to hang out with friends and go to Disneyworld. Anywhos, just my $.02

[Dave Flowerday]

Sure, we can go to see one thing here and there at Huston, but MANY things close after the pits. And many kids will want to do something. That's when FIRST will get a bad name.
One thing I don't understand: how is having Nationals at somewhere other than Disney any more of a problem than the regionals? The regionals face the same issues that you talk about, yet for the most part they don't seem to be a problem.

In my mind it's always come down to what was already mentioned on this thread: Nationals will be fun no matter where they are located. Anyone who thinks that Nationals won't be fun if not at Disney should really consider what aspects of FIRST are most important to them.

Sure, you get tired, but some of us will party untill 4 am if we could.
It's not that we get tired. It has more to do with being more excited about what's going to be happening the next day at competition (and wanting to be ready for it) than what's going to happen that night. Also, what is it that you do at Disney so late? (I'm asking seriously, because I don't know. Haven't been there since 1997.) I thought the parks closed around 8 or 9. I don't recall there being a whole lot to do after that.

[RBrandy]

Well said Andy!

I dont care where Nationals is as long as the is a Nationals. FIRST is about what we have learned and "showing off" in front of people. If we win neat... I we come in last we had a good time coming in last. That be my opinion.

[Joe Matt]

The parks closed anywhere from 2 to 4 hours after the typcial pit close.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally posted by falco269
With an announcement expected to come this week, and this being Election Day, lets get the votes going...where will/should it be?

If your choice isn't on the poll, put it in a reply...

Ok, so it's Friday, where is this announcement???

[Madison]

Originally posted by Kevin Sevcik
Also, I fail to see how boring some of the kids at nationals hurts our cause. If kids are bored cause they can't run off to a Disney park and ignore the competition the just spent 10 weeks doing.... Except of course when their coaches demand that they return to watch their robot's matches. Well I don't think the message has really gotten through to those kids. It would seem to me that they just got on a team to hang out with friends and go to Disneyworld. Anywhos, just my $.02

What is the message, exactly? I have seen this cropping up again recently in some threads, and it irks me. I strongly resent anyone implying that I or the students are in FIRST for the 'wrong reasons'.

There is no way I can possibly predict how being involved in FIRST can change anyone's life but my own. I have seen people hang around and do nothing, I have seen people join just to travel, and I've seen people join because they love science and technology. None of these things fall squarely within these implied confines of FIRST's mission. But, in reality, I have seen people from each of those backgrounds grow, change, and learn in amazing ways. If I had decided at the beginning that they were in it for the 'wrong reason', I may have deprived them a real opportunity at a better life.

Just because you don't understand someone's reason for being in FIRST doesn't mean it's not the right one - it doesn't mean that they don't understand what's happening.

Instead, I'd argue that perhaps you and those who have shared similar sentiment don't understand the true potential of what's happening here. To limit FIRST to robots, tools, and competition is to strip away its immense potential.

I'll be the first to admit that, as soon as my team arrived in Walt Disney World, I headed for the parks. Competition isn't my thing, it doesn't excite me, and I can still say that I owe some part of my life to this program. Are you willing to say to me, as I begin my 5th year (4th outside of high school, no less) in this program, that I'm in it for the wrong reason? ...that I didn't get the message?

I know what it's like to change lives. I know what it's like to have my life changed. I would never be so presumptious as to deny anyone access to this program - and particularly because I may not fully understand their reasons for joining. If someone shows concern over the competition site because they feel they may not get what they need from FIRST, I'm all ears. I want to know how I can affect more people, not shut them out.

[Kevin Sevcik]

From the FIRST site
Our mission: FIRST designs accessible, innovative programs to build self-confidence, knowledge and life skills while motivating young people to pursue opportunities in science, technology and engineering.

There's the FIRST mission. I don't see anything about going to Disney parks there. I think a kid that's on a team just to go to Disney isn't terribly likely to be motivated to pursue a career in science or engineering. I'll admit that they might start out that way and change later, but really... if they spend all their time at the park, then it's just a school sponsored vacation.

[Joe Matt]

Originally posted by Kevin Sevcik


There's the FIRST mission. I don't see anything about going to Disney parks there. I think a kid that's on a team just to go to Disney isn't terribly likely to be motivated to pursue a career in science or engineering. I'll admit that they might start out that way and change later, but really... if they spend all their time at the park, then it's just a school sponsored vacation.

Nor do I see it about getting excided about the Segway, meeting new people, or Cheifdelphi, but does that mean that those are all wrong. I love Disney, and sure, I headed towards the parks as much as I can, but what would it have been like if they all stayed? GRIDLOCK. It was bad enough last year getting around, and would be worse with more kids. I think many teachers send out kids to freshen up and remove congestion.

If you wern't there Kevin, don't comment. But if you were, then I want to know your opinion.

[Dave Flowerday]

I'll be the first to admit that, as soon as my team arrived in Walt Disney World, I headed for the parks. Competition isn't my thing, it doesn't excite me, and I can still say that I owe some part of my life to this program. Are you willing to say to me, as I begin my 5th year (4th outside of high school, no less) in this program, that I'm in it for the wrong reason? ...that I didn't get the message?
It's great that people enjoy Disney. I always did myself. There's nothing wrong with not enjoying the competition either. A good friend of mine was a very enthusiastic member of his high school team, but didn't care much for the competitions. He chose to go skiing his senior year instead of going to Florida. He still got a lot out of the program. I guess my point is only that if someone is only willing to be part of the team if going to Disney is involved, then yes I believe that person isn't really in it for the right reason. On the other hand, there's people who initially get involved because of the trip to Disney but later on discover that they really enjoy the program and they're no longer just in it for the trip. If this is the case then that means that all of us aren't doing our job very well - we should be able to get kids interested in this program without the promise of a trip to Florida.

FIRST was started in 1992 with the National Championships being held in a gymnasium. Nationals weren't held at Disney until 1995. From what I've seen student interest, participation, and team growth didn't seem to be a problem back then.

I'll add one final thought. Having nationals at Disney can't be cheap. Just think if all the money spent on 3 or 4 day park hopper passes was instead spent on bringing more students to the competition. It would be a great way to allow even more people to partake in the fun and excitement of Nationals.

[Joe Matt]

Originally posted by ThanksTom
you guys keep talking about the astrodome...

what about the new reliant stadium? i bet FIRST will hold the nationals in the new stadium. As part of my school High School for Engineering Professions, I got the chance to design part of the stadium, and also got a first class tour of it as it was being built, it's awesome, i bet they will hold the nationals in there... especially with the awesome VIP boxes and stuff. bottom line: the new stadium is awesome, and i doubt FIRST has overlooked it... i mean all the corporate executives are going to have a blast in there... i bet you anything it will be in houston in the new stadium

$20. Anyone want to second? I think it won't be at Huston.

BTW, 4097 ISN'T a team number.

[D.J. Fluck]

Originally posted by ThanksTom
[B]what about the new reliant stadium? i bet FIRST will hold the nationals in the new stadium. B]


Its not the question of where would FIRST like to hold it, but what places will let FIRST use their stadium, convention center, etc. If FIRST would have a choice where Nationals could be, im sure it would still be at Disney [if at all possible], and this debate and anxious waiting would not be going on.

Also:

Most likely [if the championships were Houston], the astrodome would be the location [if FIRST used a stadium], since it is now dormant to professional sports [since the Astros now have Tropacana Field ]. There is too much of a risk to FIRST if they tried holding it in a stadium that is brand new, and used several times a year for its primary function of football, because if something happened, the Houston Texans upper management & FIRST will have to worry about fixing the surface (or any other part) of the brand new NFL stadium. Stadium repair isnt cheap, and FIRST really wouldnt want throw away money for that.

[118 Tech]

Alright with all this talk about holding Nationals in Houston, Ive considered the possiblitles of where they could hold it. I even bieng a Housonian am still skeptical of it bieng in Houston, but I probably would be the most happiest if it was there.

Thinking about the connections with FIRST and Houston there are two major possibilitles. The two connections are one that they have been holding the Lone Star Regional at Relaiant Arena in Relaint Park, and the other one is NASA.

Here is an arial shot of the area at EPCOT where they hold nationals. EPCOT Center. (http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=10&x=2231&y=15695&z=17&w=2) Its the parking lot in the far right that appearst to be empty except for some tents. I dont know if this is FIRST or some other event. This picture was taken in 1999 so i have no clue. This gives you a perspective of the size of land that FIRST needs to build its complex.

The first possiblity with Reliant park is having it in this huge complex.
Relaint Park (http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=12&x=333&y=4107&z=15&w=2)
This picture is zoomed out to get a big picture of the complex.
There were large parking lots surrounding the Astrodome and and Arena and Hall complexes in this picture, I know now there is a huge football stadium and new confrence center there and that the parking lot space has been severly cut down but i think the space maybe there. Considering that Football season would be over and baseball is heald at The BallPark at Union Station(i refuse to accept Minute Maid Park) I think this is a possibility. I wonder about having the Playing fields in Relaint Stadium or the Astrodome. And maybe buliding a big tent for the pits. I think that would work. This would be nice becase the facilitles for the playing fields would already be air conditioned. But then we would loose the grandeur of having a single Einstien Field. Also these stadiums are huge complexes with the capaicity of three to four times the amount of people invloved wiht Nationals and then it may seem kinda empty. Also the Acoustics of having eveyone in one closed stadium would be kind of intersting. There is also a possiblity of building a nationals like complex there and that would work too. Lodging and Transportation wouldnt be that bad, Metro busses could be arranged, and becuase its by not only a major sports facility, its by the Texas Medical Center and there are plenty of rooms and places to treat those unfortunate not so close calls in the pits. Entertainment could be AstroWorld.... for one night, then after that I dont know.

Then the other possiblity is NASA. Considering the partnership NASA and FIRST share it seems to be possible. This would be really cool for 118 considering that nationals would be in our back yard. NASA/JSC provides our engieers and we work onsite on NASA facilites. In previous years we worked actaully there in the shutttle mockup facility. Also the three high schools that make up our team Surround NASA and NASA is Right in the middle of CCISD our school district. Then again it would be kind of sad if we didnt qualify considering it is an Odd Team year.
This is an arial shot.NASA/JSC (http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=12&x=371&y=4089&z=15&w=2)
Having it here we could bulid a complex just like nationals. There is a huge field where you could build it. But here its out in the open and if it rains weather would be a problem. The big problem would be security. To get to this field you have to actually get through security and that would be a huge problem for 15,000 people. Maybe if they fence off this area it may work. The area would be nice becuase it is in the shadow of old Rockets. If you look closely and zoom in you can see the Saturn V rocket. Teams could alos tour the inner workings of NASA like Mission Control and Building 9, the building that holds full sized mockups of the shuttle used for training, that place where we worked for a few years. Parking maybe a problem, teams may have to park at Space Center Houson, the visitor center at the bottom of the picture with the big white parking lots and take trams to the event site. Teams with the machine shop trucks may have to take an extra step and get a security pass and park out on the field. The team party could be heald at Space Center Houson. Wich would be nice. After hours entertainment is alittle thin. There is a Starbucks across the street. Also a Shipley's Doughnuts(for those of you who think Krispy Kreme doughnuts are the best in the world you can taste what many Texans consider the best doughnuts,10x better)(but for those who insit on Krispy Kreme and dont want to try the real deal, there is one nearby) A really nice mall and movie theater nearby. I doubt lodging maybe a problem. Just have to arrange busses to go from hotels to the event site, nothing new there. I think NASA TV is based there so that would be convineietnt. Would would be nice is that all the major TV stations and the AP have trailors at NASA for covering events, becuse it is easier for them to cover it it we may get alittle more publicity.

Me and my friend Josh, have always dreamed about nationals bieng in Houson. Finally it maybe coming true. In Joking around we actaully thought up plans for it bieng here. Im not saying this is how it will be or that I am really conviced Nationals will be in Houson. I felt it would be nice to tell you guys how it may unfold becuse we have done alot of thinking about this.

Also one two more things. The Best Robotics (http://www.bestinc.org/) Championship is heald at texas a&m university (aggies(12-0,48-47) :rolleyes: ) which is 1.5 hours away from houson, having it in Houson, and that bieng there would be intersting. May convice those ags to convert some Best teams To FIRST teams. Also George Bush lives near Houson, and Jeb Bush was at nationals last year. We maybe able to get George W. this year and George here and maybe get more publicity. Also becuase of what seems likes Dean's Connecton with them may help us, esp if we hold our events close to them(Florida and Texas). Just some more thoughts

Chris
One of the two radio toting, Leatherman carrying, webpage designing, EE majoring, FIRST junkies on 118's college student Alumni team.
10/18/02 ;)

[Kevin Sevcik]

Ok, I just have to comment about that BEST robotics comment there. There is almost no chance for BEST teams to be "converted" to FIRST teams. There's also no reason for it either. Here's the breakdown:

-- BEST is in the fall, FIRST is in the Spring
-- BEST is virtually free, FIRST costs mucho dinero
-- BEST competitions are less cmoplicated than FIRST competitions
-- BEST emphasizes the kids and the kids ONLY working on the robot. Thus the kids get more hands on experience.
-- BEST teams are scattered all over Texas, so not many would attend anyways.

Finally, the "ags" that you refer to have nothing to do with the decision of the school to participate in a competition. What do you think we do? Hold guns to their heads and force them to compete in BEST? Honestly... do some research before you talk about something.

[118 Tech]

I do know about the Best Competition, Texas Tech University is the West Texas Best HUB (http://www.ee.ttu.edu/wt-best/newweb/mainnewbest.htm). The Electrical Engineering Department runs it. My Academic Advisor heads it. I already knew those facts about Best. I think its a good orginzation. That last pargraph was not really serious. Hence all the Tech vs A&M rivalry comments and Bush family comments. Most people would agree that the expansion of FIRST to more schools is a good idea. I think it may be easier to expand FIRST to schools with a simliar progrm in place, hence the converting Best schools comment. Best is a good program, You have to drive pretty far out of Lubbock to find a school thats not invoved. For some of the schools out here Best is a better option because of the budget and student only aspects. Really my intentions about converting teams were not by forcefull means. My idea about converting teams was that maybe people in the univesity would see a better option for a particular school and think about trying it out. It dosent hurt to try, esp with programs that are supposed to advance the knoledge of science and technology. I was thinking along the means that if some people at Texas A&M saw a school that may be better suited to participate in the FIRST competion, that they be more apt to try it if Nationals were heald in houson. I know there are a few 118 alumni at A&M that would be willing to help mentor a team there. Really my intentions on that comment were tring to show the possiblitys of expanding FIRST and maybe getting a team close to my former teamates and best friend at Texas A&M. I know they do have the resources to sposor a team. Sorry about any missunderstandings, im not trying to diss Best. Im just mainly thinking about expanding FIRST.

Chris
One of the two radio toting, Leatherman carrying, webpage designing, EE majoring, FIRST junkies on 118's college student Alumni team.
10/18/02 ;)

[Redhead Jokes]

I wrote our mentor who'd been out of town,

"BTW, rumor is championship is in TX, Utah...anywhere except FL.They're going to let us know Thu."

She just wrote me...
"I was at Anaheim for ACSA conference and I heard right here at Disneyland!!!!"

If so, Thank God, for our team it'll be SOOOO much easier financially if it's true.

[Madison]

Well, Disneyland doesn't seem to be a popular theory, but here's how I think it may happen;

Okay, obviously, Disney's property in Anaheim is too small to house Nationals. Actually, it'd be more appropriate to say that there just isn't room. There's Disneyland, Disney's California Adventure, three hotels, Downtown Disney and a parking structure. There are some surface lots as well, but I'm not certain how large these are or if Disney could afford to lose one to FIRST for several weeks.

It may be a possibility.

However, across the street is the Anaheim Convention Center. If I recall correctly, the halls in that building are each larger than the pit tent at Epcot. Further, it has an 'Arena' in it with seating in the round that'd work beautifully as another Einstein.

Greg Hale, former Vice President of Design and Engineering at Walt Disney World, was recently promoted to a new position as Chief Safety Officer of the Walt Disney Company. This new position may see him working in California, and may even explain why things in Florida went downhill. That's just conjecture, though.

Disney's California Adventure has been performing far, far below expectations since it opened in February of 2001. Should Disney want to remain involved with FIRST, moving Nationals to the west coast and spotlighting this failing park seems like a no-brainer. It'll draw attention to the Disneyland Resort, but California Adventure in particular. It'll pad DCA's numbers, as well.

Anaheim is a tourist town, largely because of Disneyland, the nearby Knott's Berry Farm and other area attractions. It can easily handle an influx of 10,000 people for a weekend. LAX isn't terribly far away, either.

It'd be interesting, for sure. I'd prefer it over Houston, but that much should be obvious by now :)

[Redhead Jokes]

Originally posted by M. Krass
However, across the street is the Anaheim Convention Center. If I recall correctly, the halls in that building are each larger than the pit tent at Epcot. Further, it has an 'Arena' in it with seating in the round that'd work beautifully as another Einstein.

Greg Hale, former Vice President of Design and Engineering at Walt Disney World, was recently promoted to a new position as Chief Safety Officer of the Walt Disney Company. This new position may see him working in California, and may even explain why things in Florida went downhill. That's just conjecture, though.

Disney's California Adventure has been performing far, far below expectations since it opened in February of 2001. Should Disney want to remain involved with FIRST, moving Nationals to the west coast and spotlighting this failing park seems like a no-brainer. It'll draw attention to the Disneyland Resort, but California Adventure in particular. It'll pad DCA's numbers, as well.



My husband/mentor agrees with you now that I've asked him - Anaheim Convention Center.

My best friend's stepdad used to be in charge of Disney security - he retired some years ago. My twin and her husband used to work Disney security.

Interesting about the payoff for Disneyland!

*doing the happy dance* cuz we've been sweating funding for even our first regional, things have recently looked up about funds for our 2nd regional, and now we really could do championships if we qualify at a regional. YIPEE!!

[Joe Matt]

I've been to DL recently and would love to go again (hint hint).

DCA is a perfect place for the party. Very small but can handel the crowds. Close the Hollywood Backlot, Bountiful Farm, and Fishermans Warf area and keep Paradise Pear open with Grizzly Peak and Condor Flats open (those areas have the only good rides).

[Koko Ed]

I like the Nationals where they are but for the true essence of FIRST nothing beats the regoinals. If they could do the NAtionals in a large stadium and make it more like a gigantic regional that would be the best thing.
Right now I truly believe Disney is best equipped to handle the Nationals.

[Johca_Gaorl]

"FIRST will release the date and place of the National Championship
this Thursday Nov. 14."

^From my team contact, only a few more days guys.

[MattK]

Hey I gotta go to school, can somone e-mail my cell phone today with details?!


mobile@htownradio.cjb.net


It cant be any bigger than 180 characters

[Johca_Gaorl]

Championship Information

Many of you may have heard that FIRST will not be holding The Championship at Epcot in 2003. FIRST and Walt Disney World worked diligently to come up with a date that would allow us to return to Epcot but several factors simply worked against us.

We fully intended to announce the date and location of the 2003 Championship today and open registration on Friday, November 15, 2002. Although we have been working diligently to complete arrangements and obtain the very best possible pricing for teams, we have not yet finalized all the details.

We thank you for your continued patience as we complete this process. Our objective is to create an event that meets the high standards achieved in the past. We hope to have the arrangements finalized within two weeks and open registration for The Championship at that time. If it is necessary to extend the registration period for The Championship to give teams sufficient time to register, we will do so.

If you have questions, please e-mail frcteams@usfirst.org.

Respectfully,

Robert Hammond
Director, Robotics Competition

Well, I guess it's not at WDW...

[Gene F]

Let's look on the practical side. Most teams have already created and secured funding for a team budget assuming that Nationals would be in FL. For this reason I would say let's keep it FL this year. Next year is a different story. Being raised in WI I think Oconomowoc would be cool. Cheeze and Brats for everyone! But again looking on the practical side a location centrally located in the country would be most fair for everyone (St. Louis maybe). Botton line teams will need to know the location at least a year in advance to properly budget and fund raise for the travel. I would hate to see teams miss the Nationals because of a last minute change that raised their travel costs out of reach.

[Redhead Jokes]

Originally posted by Gene F
Most teams have already created and secured funding for a team budget assuming that Nationals would be in FL. For this reason I would say let's keep it FL this yearI would hate to see teams miss the Nationals because of a last minute change that raised their travel costs out of reach.

We haven't. TRW usually gave us $20,000 a year. This year they're bought by Grauman. TRW corp who gave the money is "no more" so local TRW gave us $5000 for registration. Rumor is Grauman won't give more money, altho we won't know til we apply when things are in place - within a month.

We've written and applied many other places - so far no luck.

We planned to go to FL, we don't have the funds. There may be more teams like that than you think.

Disneyland! Problem solved!

:D

[Shana]

Originally posted by Gene F
Let's look on the practical side. Most teams have already created and secured funding for a team budget assuming that Nationals would be in FL. For this reason I would say let's keep it FL this year.

The problem for a lot of Western teams though is the fact that they have to raise a whole lot of money so they never are prepared for finals, no matter where they are. Your team, and maybe other teams that are closer to florida have the money but for the teams that have to fly across the country our funds are never secure. If they move NATS this year I don't think it will hurt teams to much. In fact it will be giving teams all along the west coast a much needed break especially since there are a lot of rookie teams coming from these states. I believe it will be a nice change to move them this year because of all the problems teams are having for fundraising.
If NATS end up being in Houston thats the middle of the country so people have an equal opportunity. If you really want to know the problems though of fundraising talk to a team this year at NATS. When I did it was really eye opening to see that they might have huge teams but could only afford to send 3 students and 2 engineers even though they fundraised up the wazoo. So try to keep an open mind about moving the NATS. I'm sure FIRST isn't sitting in their offices thinking "how can we make it as hard as possible for them" all they really want are fair prices. If you are worried about funds though I suggest you start fundraising in case it does move, which is most likely. Believe me it may be tough to get the money but it can be done.

~SHANA~

[Cory]

If you actually think about it, it will be beneficial to teams for nats to move. If Nats are not at Disney, you will not be paying 200% of the value of something. Yes, Airfare may be more, but in another thread it was stated that it is only $70 more to fly to Houston that Orlando. In the end, I think it will be cheaper for teams, especially the West Coast teams who are always in a jam with travelling to Nats. Anyways, thats just my $.02

[Kevin Sevcik]

Actually, it was $70 more for a team to fly from richmond, VA to houston rather than Orlando. It was cheaper for someone to fly from LAX to houston, rather than orlando

[brokenleftthumb]

What about inside Canada... don't you people wanna come to Canada? Furs for free, man :-)

[D.J. Fluck]

Originally posted by brokenleftthumb
What about inside Canada... don't you people wanna come to Canada? Furs for free, man :-)

Been disscussed before, Canada is out of the question

[Reed B.]

My useless 2 cents:

Houston, TX: disputably the most "central" location you could get. Personally I'd like to know how the teams spread out over the continent before committing to the site, though.
Orlando, FL: Ah, the old standy. All of you know more or less about this by now. It sucks to fly there from the west coast, though.
Washington DC: Eh, a so-so location. There's a lot of historic stuff, to be sure, and while it would historically insightful and all, you're not here to read about Lincoln, you're here primarily to commandeer your rickety robot death traps to pick up balls.
Las Vegas, NV: Yes, it is the city of sin. Yes, it has almost no redeeming qualities to anyone below legal age. But if your idea of heaven is streets covered with free porn mags (no, I'm not making this up), then Las Vegas has your number.

As far as locations without entertainment: folks, we're building robots here. I'm sure you could figure out something to bring to occupy your spare time whenever you have it. Some of my teammates (myself included) brought along our gaming systems: if you can keep track of the things, put them away when you're done, and crack through whatever "security" mechanism the hotel's installed on the hotel TV (which can be easily overcome in many instances by a $10 adapter for your gaming system), you're in business. If you can't manage that, bring some cards (or CCGs, or RPGs, whatever).

[Gadget470]

Brought to the people on irc.webmaster.com #FIRSTrobotics 's attention by "dez250"

WJR (Detroit area AM radio station) Interviewed Dean Kamen. While saying that WJR will be broadcasting from the Great Lakes Regional and the Championship in Florida, Dean interrupted and said:
I have a new peice of news for you there, too. This year's nationals will not be in Florida. Not even Florida has an arena big enough for us. This year the finals will be in Houston, in the new version of what used to be called the AstroDome.

There you have it folks, thanks to Paul W. Smith and dez250, we know where nationals will be.

The interview goes on about the Segway, iBot, and other things about Dean and his inventions. With a great quote for the refutation of using a Segway vs Walking

http://media.radcity.net/wjr/media/paulwsmith/interviews/kamen-120202.ram
(real player)

[mtaman02]

maybe FIRST knows that we know where the nationals will be held and theire now just trying to keep it a secret even though those with FIRST Contacts" managed to get some pieces of useful information to us. i think either X-mas / New Years / Kickoff will be the selected days that the nationals could be announced

[Jon K.]

SEE NEW THREADS!!! Houston April 10-12