What did you vote for in the stop-build day survey?

[Andrew_L]

I know CD is in no way representative of the whole number of teams who completed the survey, but I'm curious to see how the website community leans and whether it matches with the survey results or differs, and if it differs, how that may affect the point of view of discussion that happens on the forum thread regarding the blog post.

[ATannahill]

I know CD is in no way representative of the whole number of teams who completed the survey, but I'm curious to see how the website community leans and whether it matches with the survey results or differs, and if it differs, how that may affect the point of view of discussion that happens on the forum thread regarding the blog post.
Please check out these threads:

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150966

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151019

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150953

[Andrew_L]

Please check out these threads:

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150966

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151019

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150953

I am aware of the previous threads and debates, but now that the results are posted, I want to see how the data may change, or if it stays the same. Good data collectors always follow their results from beginning to end for consistency. :)

[ATannahill]

I am aware of the previous threads and debates, but now that the results are posted, I want to see how the data may change, or if it stays the same. Good data collectors always follow their results from beginning to end for consistency. :)
I welcome healthy discussion and research, I just want to make sure that everyone is aware of other discussions and viewpoints. Your original post made no mention of the pre-existing data on the subject.

[MrForbes]

I wish I could remember how I answered the survey. I do recall that it was a tad complicated.

[marshall]

I voted to keep Stop Build Day but only for students. Mentors get to keep working on the robot. :rolleyes:

[Conor Ryan]

I voted to continue the use of stop-build day. Learning continues year round and everyone knows that.

I do support a more structured out of bag time. In the working world after you hit a big project deadline, you can make tactical changes occasionally and within certain windows. Teams should be able to do that too.

[BotDesigner]

I voted to keep Stop Build Day but only for students. Mentors get to keep working on the robot. :rolleyes:

That is the worst idea I have ever seen. :yikes:

[nobrakes8]

I voted to keep the stop build day but made comments that we should allow teams to use parts that are built off-season or used in previous years (this would greatly help my team). My experience in FRC is that the years my teams have done well we knew by week 2-3 that our robot was awesome; and the years we've done horrible we have struggled for 12 weeks if we were given it (or done a complete re-design).

Unfortunately, the driving reason behind my vote is that I'm already maxed out with my time commitment and would have to stop participating as a mentor if I'm asked for more time.

[BrendanB]

A question like this should probably have the included question of, "Do you build a practice robot(s) or not?"

[nobrakes8]

A question like this should probably have the included question of, "Do you build a practice robot(s) or not?"

That's a great point. I don't remember the exact questions but the official FIRST survey did ask if the team builds a second robot and for some information around why/how's its used.

[tickspe15]

I voted to keep Stop Build Day but only for students. Mentors get to keep working on the robot. :rolleyes:

+1
Best idea i've seen in a while
Students have no increased negative effect on grades, robots get better, and most importantly mentors have fun without those annyoing students:D

[Lireal]

I voted to keep Stop Build Day but only for students. Mentors get to keep working on the robot. :rolleyes:

This would be very effective way to increase allegations of mentor built robots.

[euhlmann]

I voted to keep Stop Build Day but only for students. Mentors get to keep working on the robot. :rolleyes:

You scared me for a second there :o

[Andrew Schreiber]

I voted to keep Stop Build Day but only for students. Mentors get to keep working on the robot. :rolleyes:

You need one of those curly mustaches that old timey villains had.

[DonRotolo]

I voted to keep Stop Build Day but only for students. Mentors get to keep working on the robot. :rolleyes:
..and I voted the exact opposite: Students can go knock themselves out, while mentors get Pina Coladas and hammocks.:rolleyes:

[marshall]

..and I voted the exact opposite: Students can go knock themselves out, while mentors get Pina Coladas and hammocks.:rolleyes:

Crap! Is it too late to change my vote? Wait, where do we stand on being sponsored by pina colada companies?

[GeeTwo]

I don't recall such a question being asked. Now that you ask it, I would answer "keep it" (first choice) as a #1 preference, and "ditch it" as a not-too-distant #2 preference.


Bagging as currently practiced at least simulates the concept of a ship date. Long-lead ship dates are a real thing in my professional world; we prep equipment in-house and ship it to (mostly) foreign ports where we install it on a ship. Carrying software and small hardware upgrades is also a reality; I have hand-carried both software and hardware many times, and only once did we pay excess baggage because the hardware was in excess of 30 pounds.
Build until the deadline also mimics many shops.
Access periods in your own shop don't have any real world analogs that I am aware of.

[Ian Curtis]

Bagging as currently practiced at least simulates the concept of a ship date. Long-lead ship dates are a real thing in my professional world; we prep equipment in-house and ship it to (mostly) foreign ports where we install it on a ship. Carrying software and small hardware upgrades is also a reality; I have hand-carried both software and hardware many times, and only once did we pay excess baggage because the hardware was in excess of 30 pounds.
Build until the deadline also mimics many shops.
Access periods in your own shop don't have any real world analogs that I am aware of.


I am quite sure that both sides are able & willing to come up with tortured real world analogs to bag day or no bag day to support the conclusion they've already reached for other reasons.

[itsjustjon]

Honestly, the option that would make the most sense (in my opinion, note that this is not a factual statement due to the fact that I am not all-knowing) would be the one that involves a sort of compromise, aka Option 2.

Rather than abolishing Stop Build Day or maintaining Status Quo, there could be a variety of paths the FRC community can take. Please note that none of these solutions are the best ways to go. They're all just ideas thought of as alternatives to just outright abolishing Stop Build Day:

Staggered Open-Bag Time: Give every team 24 hours per week (no roll-over for unused time) after Stop Build Day to do what they want to the robot. This is based on the honor system, I know. The current Bag-n-Tag system is, too.


Complete Season Change-Up: Have Build Season occur with the same amount of time but during the summer with competitions in the fall instead of the spring. Also, you could increase Build Season to end the week before Week One competitions begin. This would involve major hassles and re-working, but I believe it would benefit students overall (no missed assignments, diminished studying efforts, etc). That being said, I don't know what effect this may have on mentors and teachers.


Build Time Allotments: In timed chess, you have a clock which counts down the amount of unspent time you have and it is up to you to portion your time effectively. Instead of a full X-long build season, FRC could give each team a certain number of days to work on their robot which can equate to six weeks, and these days would be spent in a similar manner to timed chess. I've seen posts from numerous teams limiting their build time to four days per week anyways, so this system can allow for this to happen with an added benefit of using leftover time whenever the team wants.


None of these ideas are perfect solutions on their own, but I think it would be healthier for us to entertain more than just one solution to the current problems of Stop Build Day.