What would happen if the #1 alliance captain gets denied by every team [Archive]

SteveJobs

13-11-2016, 10:44

Poseidon5817

13-11-2016, 10:54

There's no rule for this because it would obviously never happen, but if I had to wager a guess, they would do a repeat of the alliance selection process and hopefully the outcome would be different. If the reason everyone denied was that they are unable to compete, they would probably just crown the 1st seed (and maybe even 2 and 3) the winner(s).

MARS_James

13-11-2016, 11:19

While there is no rules stating what would happen if this were to happen based on the rules of the competition it would most likely result in one of two scenarios:

1. If everyone said no then only the top 8 would compete in elims and we would have 1 winner.

2. If everyone at the competition was broken then it would mean that in years where humans can't score points without robots (05, 08, 10, 14, 16) it would be down to what I am guessing would be a rock-paper-scissors tournament in the center of the field. If it was years where humans could score points (06, 07, 09, 11, 12, 13, 15) then you better have picked the best human player you could think of cause they are about to win you a robotics tournament,

bdaroz

13-11-2016, 11:23

I think the outcome with the highest likelihood in this situation is a frantic call to FIRST.

Chris is me

13-11-2016, 11:29

As far as the rules allow, there would be no eligible teams left for anyone to pick in alliance selection, so each alliance would consist of a single team. 1v1 matches all the way to the finals.

There's nothing in the rules that suggests a re-draft is allowed or anything like that, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone at the event decided that would happen.

Jon Stratis

13-11-2016, 11:35

Hitchhiker 42

13-11-2016, 11:36

2. If everyone at the competition was broken then it would mean that in years where humans can't score points without robots (05, 08, 10, 14, 16)...

Hey, 2016 is totally feasible if you happen to be 195. Just roll that boulder over the Cheval right into the low goal. :P

FiMFanatic

13-11-2016, 13:36

Waste of time - this would never happen in 5000 lifetimes. Why would anyone 9-40 (or whatever) decline knowing their tourney was then "over". Even if all broken (which would never happen), the final team would say yes anyway....

Time to spend time on things more meaningful. (and I detest myself for even replying to this drivel)

Sperkowsky

13-11-2016, 13:41

Hey, 2016 is totally feasible if you happen to be 195. Just roll that boulder over the Cheval right into the low goal. :P

Fixed it for you.

DonRotolo

13-11-2016, 14:42

...you are the alliance caption... Did you mean for the Caption Contest, or some other kind of caption? Wouldn't there need to be an image associated with the caption? I am confused.:ahh: :ahh: :p

Hitchhiker 42

13-11-2016, 14:59

Fixed it for you.
Edited in my original post. :)

Did you mean for the Caption Contest, or some other kind of caption? Wouldn't there need to be an image associated with the caption? I am confused.:ahh: :ahh: :p

Coming new to CD: a mix between Fantasy FIRST and the Caption Contest - Fantasy Caption Contest

Basel A

13-11-2016, 15:09

Coming new to CD: a mix between Fantasy FIRST and the Caption Contest - Fantasy Caption Contest

Is that where somebody posts a caption and then people describe or draw the picture that could've inspired it?

Hitchhiker 42

13-11-2016, 15:29

Is that where somebody posts a caption and then people describe or draw the picture that could've inspired it?

That could be it, but I was thinking more along the lines of those who participate in FCC choose their alliances of 3 captioners and follow them throughout the season. Whoever's alliances gets the most total points wins.

frcguy

13-11-2016, 15:37

Is that where somebody posts a caption and then people describe or draw the picture that could've inspired it?

This should actually be a thing.

CalTran

13-11-2016, 16:18

Just as a point of interest, there has been at least one case where the alliance captains almost all declined the #1 seed. kept other teams from moving up to become captain's, and prevented picking within the other top 8 teams.

There's Scorched Earth, then there's OP's scenario, which would be like Heat Death of the Universe or so...

Roboshant

13-11-2016, 17:07

At the Bloomfield All Girls event (yesterday) the #1 alliance was denied by the top 5.

More Info:
1. 4779
2. 33
3. 1023
4. 226
5. 2337
6. 2834 (accepted)

Koko Ed

13-11-2016, 17:14

So during an alliance selection, you are the alliance caption and you pick a team to be on your alliance and you get denied. Then you get denied similarly by all teams in the competition.

What would happen? You obviously cannot get picked if you say no. If you are in the top 8, you can pick a team but they've already denied the #1 alliance.

This is just a hypothetical question.

If nobody in the top 8 wants to play with you make it so they can't play with anybody else. They don't owe yoy anything and you don't owe them anything. Anyone beyond the top 8 who says no is just looking to pack up and go home.

RoboChair

14-11-2016, 12:01

At the Bloomfield All Girls event (yesterday) the #1 alliance was denied by the top 5.

More Info:
1. 4779
2. 33
3. 1023
4. 226
5. 2337
6. 2834 (accepted)

Beats our record of 4 declines on Curie 2013. Anyone ever seen more than 5 declines?

lynca

14-11-2016, 12:13

If you get lucky at the top of the rankings and the other top 8 teams will not accept you as an alliance partner.
Scorched Earth Strategy is still a valid strategy.
Scorched Earth weakens all the potential alliances if all 7 ranked teams deny.

Some offseasons employ a mandatory scorched earth alliance selection to average power across alliances.

Here is a thread about the topic in 2013.
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117997

Michael Blake

14-11-2016, 14:26

Scorched Earth weakens all the potential alliances if all 7 ranked teams deny.

Some offseasons employ a mandatory scorched earth alliance selection to average power across alliances.

Here is a thread about the topic in 2013.
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117997

Andrew... I've always thought this scorched earth alliance selection is best for most off-season competitions.

PLUS 4-team alliances with a mandatory one-play for each team per bracket; with a 32 team cap so that _everyone_ plays in the Elims.

--Michael

RichQuinn

14-11-2016, 14:48

It was fun to watch the alliance selection and surprising to see the declines. There was even an announcer joke (from Jim Z.) about it being natural to expect drama at an All-Girl competition.

I can appreciate teams' desire to form their own alliances to get the experience. Bedford (1023) went on to win so they chose correctly, it seems.

For what it's worth, 4779 Robosapiens were on my radar as having the most Cadillac-like chassis I saw all year in Stronghold. Look for the tall red robot crossing the moat at LSSU at 1:12 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqP026EPrbE

I thought they were very competitive at All-Girls, but FRC stuff happens sometimes.

FrankJ

14-11-2016, 15:08

Roboshant

14-11-2016, 15:34

I can see a possibility in a district with less than 24 working robots and the 1# alliance is guaranteed to play a robot down. Rules like last years game make it difficult to win without 3 moving robots. As others have said past the 8 seed, it is play or go home.

This happened at the Big Bang event this year. There were a total of 23 teams present. The rules were changed so that the 2 team alliance would be awarded a capture with the 2 robots on the batter. Team 226 was the alliance #2 captain and picked 1481. On the way back we chose not to pair with the team that remained. We ended up making it to the finals, but lost to the 3 team #1 alliance.

EricH

14-11-2016, 23:27

I can see a possibility in a district with less than 24 working robots and the 1# alliance is guaranteed to play a robot down. Rules like last years game make it difficult to win without 3 moving robots. As others have said past the 8 seed, it is play or go home.
Happened at the Fall Classic Sunday event. If you look at the playoffs, there's a hole on the #1 alliance, facing the #4 in the first round (semis). (11 teams present, 12 playoff slots)

#1 got a random previously-eliminated team for the finals.

Citrus Dad

15-11-2016, 01:41

At the Bloomfield All Girls event (yesterday) the #1 alliance was denied by the top 5.

More Info:
1. 4779
2. 33
3. 1023
4. 226
5. 2337
6. 2834 (accepted)

Was this supposed to be a friendly event???? :ahh:

Koko Ed

15-11-2016, 07:52

IT nearly happened in the 2006 Newton division where 176 was top seed and started picking every team in the top 8 who then one after the other said no to them til 111 accepted their invitation. They made it all the way to the divison finals.
What struck me was I heard many people label 176 jerks for doing that but it would be perfectly ok to say no to them.

bobbysq

15-11-2016, 08:58

I can see a possibility in a district with less than 24 working robots and the 1# alliance is guaranteed to play a robot down. Rules like last years game make it difficult to win without 3 moving robots. As others have said past the 8 seed, it is play or go home.

A #1 seed would probably be experienced enough to at least help get a robot moving. I assume they would pick the simplest non-moving robot and cheesecake from there.

Bryce Clegg

15-11-2016, 09:04

I can see a possibility in a district with less than 24 working robots and the 1# alliance is guaranteed to play a robot down. Rules like last years game make it difficult to win without 3 moving robots. As others have said past the 8 seed, it is play or go home.

We almost had to do this at UNC Asheville last year. One team didn't show up, and we had exactly 24 teams. It made for a very interesting competition, knowing that everyone would make the eliminations.