Recommendations for Restoring Router

[wireties]

We bought an old router at an auction. It is a beast with a 14' by 9' bed. The motors came with the router but nothing else control-wise. All the axis move but we need to clean it up. We are refitting with a 4kw spindle, new motor drivers and LinuxCNC.

What are the best methods to remove surface rust of the gear surfaces? Anybody had some good experiences with different methods and chemicals?

We are also thinking of switching from sprockets and chain to HTD belts and pulleys in a few places. Wise move?

Any innovative efforts to create a vacuum setup?

TIA

[Cothron Theiss]

We bought an old router at an auction. It is a beast with a 14' by 9' bed. The motors came with the router but nothing else control-wise. All the axis move but we need to clean it up. We are refitting with a 4kw spindle, new motor drivers and LinuxCNC.

What are the best methods to remove surface rust of the gear surfaces? Anybody had some good experiences with different methods and chemicals?

We are also thinking of switching from sprockets and chain to HTD belts and pulleys in a few places. Wise move?

Any innovative efforts to create a vacuum setup?

TIA

Wow, that's great news!

As for removing rust, I swear by Evapo-rust (http://www.evapo-rust.com/). A good friend of mine's dad used to race stock cars, and we went through quite a bit of the stuff restoring a car after it sat outside for a decade. It is relatively expensive, and there are probably homemade solutions, but I can vouch for this one.

If you decide to switch from chain to timing belts, I would suggest using the GT3 profile instead of HTD. GT3 shows less backlash.

[sanddrag]

Any pics of this thing?

[wireties]

Any pics of this thing?

I'm working in Arizona this week. I'll try to get somebody to take a pic or three.

[InFlight]

For smaller items such as rusty gears; electrolysis cleanup is very simple, and avoids all the acidic chemicals.

You can probably find lots of instructions out there.

You simply use a plastic tub of water and baking soda solution. You attach the red lead of a battery charger to a sacrificial anode (steel sheet metal). Attach the black lead to your part and make sure their no direct contact. The rust will all be essentially converted back to the base metal, but some will be in the form small loose particles.

Clean it up with fine steel wool & WD-40, or some other polishing method.

[wireties]

Shows the rust on the gears, sprockets and chains ...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNuUPz7BgSU/?taken-by=buchanan4799

The entire machine ...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNuUOs8BQuS/?taken-by=buchanan4799

[RoboChair]

Shows the rust on the gears, sprockets and chains ...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNuUPz7BgSU/?taken-by=buchanan4799

The entire machine ...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNuUOs8BQuS/?taken-by=buchanan4799

Well, I'm jealous.

The rust doesn't look so bad really, scotch-brite and some oil should clean it up nicely, maybe a wire brush too. Replace the chain if you feel so inclined.

[AdamHeard]

What is the power rating on the servos?

It might be more cost effective (and definitely easier), to use Teknic "stepper killer" motors (400W is their largest). These are a servo and drive integrated into a single unit, and just run off step-dir pulses. Really takes a lot of work out of the setup for anyone new to the area. We're using them as the XYZ servos on a knee mill we've converted, and then traditional servos with drives for our router project.

If you want to stick w/ existing servos and do new drives, I can help you with that. I spec this stuff all the time.

[wireties]

What is the power rating on the servos?

It might be more cost effective (and definitely easier), to use Teknic "stepper killer" motors (400W is their largest). These are a servo and drive integrated into a single unit, and just run off step-dir pulses. Really takes a lot of work out of the setup for anyone new to the area. We're using them as the XYZ servos on a knee mill we've converted, and then traditional servos with drives for our router project.

If you want to stick w/ existing servos and do new drives, I can help you with that. I spec this stuff all the time.

None of the controls came with the machine. It has these motors on it: MTS-30M4-48
Ferrite Brushed DC Servo Motor
MAX - 3000 RPM 140V 37A
Stall 6.8A (weird)
NEMA-42 frame with MS connector

I think 30A/48V drives will work? We moved the axis easily with a 12V battery and the franken-drill we used to test FRC stuff. I E-bayed a few DC-DC drivers and a giant power supply - gonna try it next week.

[wireties]

It might be more cost effective (and definitely easier), to use Teknic "stepper killer" motors (400W is their largest).

How much is the big one? 400W might be cutting it close, not sure ...

[AdamHeard]

How much is the big one? 400W might be cutting it close, not sure ...

There is some markup from distributors, but the $387 price here is ballpark.

https://www.teknic.com/model-info/CPM-SDSK-3432S-RLN/

They will shave a lot of time off the project potentially, but will cost some money. They will likely cost the same or less as quality servo drives for your existing motors (which will still require lots of setup).

[sanddrag]

For rust removal, I can confirm that electrolysis works well. Use "washing soda" instead of baking soda if you can, and use the cheapest brand available without much other stuff in it. I think Sodium Carbonate is what you want, and baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, or maybe I have that backwards. A 6 Amp Schumacher manual (not automatic) charger works well as the power supply, as does an ATX computer power supply. Use any scrap steel for the electrodes, and I recommend more than one electrode.

[Brian Selle]

If your Ebay drives don't work out, check out Advanced Motions Controls http://www.a-m-c.com/index.html. I used their drives to replace several on my mill at a fraction of the cost of the original Anilam units. Their engineering support was awesome in helping select the drives and then with follow up support to get everything setup and running. They also give big discounts to FRC teams.

[wireties]

If your Ebay drives don't work out, check out Advanced Motions Controls http://www.a-m-c.com/index.html. I used their drives to replace several on my mill at a fraction of the cost of the original Anilam units. Their engineering support was awesome in helping select the drives and then with follow up support to get everything setup and running. They also give big discounts to FRC teams.

I bought five old AMCs on EBay! Hopefully they work!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Motion-Controls-Brush-Type-PWM-Servo-Amplifier-/171821990460?hash=item280163823c:g:vh8AAOSw~oFXFss I

[AdamHeard]

I bought five old AMCs on EBay! Hopefully they work!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Motion-Controls-Brush-Type-PWM-Servo-Amplifier-/171821990460?hash=item280163823c:g:vh8AAOSw~oFXFss I

These can be a good choice if you run the right controller (was going to recommend AMC like Brian if you insisted on buying some).

What controller are you planning on running w/ Linux CNC?

Do the motors have encoders or resolvers on them right now?

It sounds like you know what you're doing, and are on the right path. It's certainly more labor intensive to do what you're doing, but you'll end up with a better system.

[wireties]

What controller are you planning on running w/ Linux CNC?


Mesa 5124/25 with a +/-10V daughter board.


Do the motors have encoders or resolvers on them right now?


I'll find out when I wind them up next week. The cables suggest they have both a tach feedback and quadrature encoder, all balanced signals.


It sounds like you know what you're doing, and are on the right path. It's certainly more labor intensive to do what you're doing, but you'll end up with a better system.


Thanks! I'm kinda cheap, gets me into trouble sometimes! The labor is free and I'm getting the students to do some of the work with me.

[Ari423]

Thanks! I'm kinda cheap, gets me into trouble sometimes! The labor is free and I'm getting the students to do some of the work with me.

Ah, free slave labor. One of the many benefits of being a mentor

[wireties]

Ah, free slave labor. One of the many benefits of being a mentor

The router is one of the machines in a Makerspace we setup to benefit the FRC team. So in theory the team will get something out of the work - some day!

[InFlight]

For rust removal, I can confirm that electrolysis works well. Use "washing soda" instead of baking soda if you can, and use the cheapest brand available without much other stuff in it. I think Sodium Carbonate is what you want, and baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, or maybe I have that backwards. A 6 Amp Schumacher manual (not automatic) charger works well as the power supply, as does an ATX computer power supply. Use any scrap steel for the electrodes, and I recommend more than one electrode.


Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) is NaHCO3, which in water is Na+ and HCO3- ions.

Sodium Carbonate is Na2CO3, which in water is 2Na+ and CO3-- ions.

Sodium Carnonate is a very strong caustic base (pH 11); where baking soda has a pH around 8. The purpose of either is just to be an electrolyte. The compounds don't take part in actual reaction.

Baking soda might take slightly longer, but it's solution is far safer to handle and dispose with afterwards. As a bonus, most people that bake will already have some at home.

[Brian Selle]

How about this Keith...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7GoRQBvghk

[wireties]

How about this Keith...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7GoRQBvghk

I know where my next $100k is going! ;)

[RoboChair]

How about this Keith...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7GoRQBvghk

The fact that it's hand held scares me deeply....

EDIT: WHAT THE HELL, it's actually safe for human flesh?!?!?!?!? http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/videos/a30597/best-rust-remover-laser/

[AustinSchuh]

Mesa 5124/25 with a +/-10V daughter board.


Awesome! That's what we are running. 1 ms cycle with LinuxCNC and it's working great. Ping me if you need any help. I even rebuilt the verilog to support our specific set of daughter boards.

Looks like a fun project!

[wireties]

Awesome! That's what we are running. 1 ms cycle with LinuxCNC and it's working great. Ping me if you need any help. I even rebuilt the verilog to support our specific set of daughter boards.

Looks like a fun project!

Thanks! I might hit you up for some help. All in Verilog, nothing in VHDL?

[AustinSchuh]

Thanks! I might hit you up for some help. All in Verilog, nothing in VHDL?

I can't remember. Might have been VDHL. If you dig through the documentation, you can eventually find instructions on how to build a new image, or give me a holler. It took me a solid day to figure it all out. (If you need a prompt response, I'm waaay faster on gchat).