Use of Earpieces during Competition

[yank]

Hello,

My team (First Tech Challenge) has been wondering if we can use earpieces during matches for communication. We plan to have one of our teammates keep score and tell the drive team through the earpiece so that they can adjust their gameplay strategies accordingly.
Is this legal?

Thanks!

[Foster]

No. FTC, FRC, VEX, etc. rules talk about extra radio connections. Short of them going DC to Daylight, other than the robot, they are pretty explicit about other radios. That goes for team, scouts, people in the stands that can help, etc.

Having dashed all that, turns out, American Sign Language is OK if your driver can see the coach. Sometimes not, so the alternate is to do this:

Driver: Shake head, ready for score.
Coach: tap left for tens, right for ones. Head tap you are down points no tap, you are up. We did delta's to make it easier, you can do actual points if you want.

You can create your own signals, maybe 1 tap is 5 points. Or tap right for points ahead, left for points down.

PRO TIP: Delivering points details and SMACKING THE DRIVER because they are down are two different things.

Good luck!

[ctt956]

By 2016 rules, the short answer is no. The long answer is that you can't use anything that allows you to wirelessly communicate, so if it's wired, it should be legal...by that rule. However, the wires for this to work would pose a trip hazard, and just generally get in the way and be a distraction, which could cause more accidents. Therefore, it could be a safety violation.

[ctt956]

No. FTC, FRC, VEX, etc. rules talk about extra radio connections. Short of them going DC to Daylight, other than the robot, they are pretty explicit about other radios. That goes for team, scouts, people in the stands that can help, etc.

Having dashed all that, turns out, American Sign Language is OK if your driver can see the coach. Sometimes not, so the alternate is to do this:

Driver: Shake head, ready for score.
Coach: tap left for tens, right for ones. Head tap you are down points no tap, you are up. We did delta's to make it easier, you can do actual points if you want.

You can create your own signals, maybe 1 tap is 5 points. Or tap right for points ahead, left for points down.

PRO TIP: Delivering points details and SMACKING THE DRIVER because they are down are two different things.

Good luck!

This is actually a great idea. Maybe that's why we'll have 6 drive team members...

[Foster]

This is actually a great idea. Maybe that's why we'll have 6 drive team members...

Thanks. Just remember yelling "Drive with a purpose!" is always, always acceptable. :rolleyes:

[Al Skierkiewicz]

This would apply...
<T20> Teams are not allowed to use radios and walkie-talkies anywhere in the Tournament facility.

[Andrew_L]

This would apply...
<T20> Teams are not allowed to use radios and walkie-talkies anywhere in the Tournament facility.

But what about cans connected by string? ;)

[MrRoboSteve]

FWIW, this is enforced pretty strictly. I've seen teams penalized for talking on their mobile phone as the match starts.

[ctt956]

But what about cans connected by string? ;)

I think that from a technology standpoint, they would be legal. But I doubt the safety advisors will like it, because the string could present a safety hazard as people could walk into it, trip over it, etc. Let alone the cut hazard posed by the cans... :p

[Siri]

I think that from a technology standpoint, they would be legal. But I doubt the safety advisors will like it, because the string could present a safety hazard as people could walk into it, trip over it, etc. Let alone the cut hazard posed by the cans... :pSomeone can tell you a very funny story about a whiteboard in the stands being officially deemed "wireless communication" (because it doesn't have a wire!) at one event in the days of yore. However, if the string was technically a wire, you could dodge that bullet.

In all seriousness, though, we really have had official safety problems with people using long cables behind the glass. I remember one case as a ref where a driver used a very long cable on their gamepad in order to walk the entire length of the alliance station to see around whatever obstacle was blocking our view that year. Stuff like this is clever but very dangerous with all the movement back there.

[Richard Wallace]

Slightly off-topic: A couple of years back, there was a drive coach who got permission to use a loudspeaker, worn around the neck, to communicate with the drivers. Without it, the coach might not have been heard -- I think the problem was laryngitis.

I guess a bullhorn would have been equally effective, but a neck speaker connected to a headset mike kept the coach's hands free. I imagine the appropriate volume set point was a topic of discussion in that team's pit.

[GaryVoshol]

Slightly off-topic: A couple of years back, there was a drive coach who got permission to use a loudspeaker, worn around the neck, to communicate with the drivers. Without it, the coach might not have been heard -- I think the problem was laryngitis.

I guess a bullhorn would have been equally effective, but a neck speaker connected to a headset mike kept the coach's hands free. I imagine the appropriate volume set point was a topic of discussion in that team's pit.
If we're talking about the same person, it was more than short-term laryngitis. She has to use the speaker for her day job too.

Now it would be called a reasonable accommodation per ADA. Back when she first had it - and I questioned her - it was just the right thing to do once the situation was explained.

[zinthorne]

I am not sure what the rule is on this, but I think that if everyone in the driverstation has wired earpieces to just each other it could be legal. I have thought about doing it to help me hear the coach. I am not sure what this guy used it for, but he did have headphones in, but they did not seem to be connected to anything other than a phone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jd32B0chAg&t=242s

[EricH]

Could it be legal, if they were wired? Possibly.

That would probably last about as long as it took for someone (like the coach) to hit the end of the wire, or someone to trip over the wire, or similar issues. At that point, it's a safety problem. And, as a general rule of thumb (and keeping thumbs intact), if it's unsafe, mitigating measures will need to be taken. In this case, the easiest is not to use wired earpieces.


I think the guy in the video is listening to music in one ear. I've heard of drivers doing that, helps them relax and focus and tune out unnecessary noise. OTOH, I'm not entirely sure if I'd want someone doing that during the match if I was the coach...

[Jon K.]

If we're talking about the same person, it was more than short-term laryngitis. She has to use the speaker for her day job too.

Now it would be called a reasonable accommodation per ADA. Back when she first had it - and I questioned her - it was just the right thing to do once the situation was explained.

I believe many of us questioned its legality at one point or another. It was always deemed legal as it definitely is not at the same volume we all know she was capable of.

As for radios, ::rtm::

[DaveL]

But what about cans connected by string? ;)

Sniped

Or fiber optical cable with coders/decoders?

[dtengineering]

The driver could, presumably, wear a headset with a stabilized camera focused on a phone or tablet of a team member in the stands. The tablet could display an image of the sound waves it is picking up, and the headset could decipher those images to recreate sounds to pipe into the driver's ears.

Now technically that is wireless communication, but it is a sufficiently cool hack that it might just be allowed.

It might also be possible to use a parabolic mic and amplifier pointed at a team member in the spectator area. Once could argue that it isn't a method of wireless communication, but merely one of selective amplification of existing data channels.

And then smile graciously and take the system back to the pit when asked to do so.

Jason

[jdunston94]

Slightly off-topic: A couple of years back, there was a drive coach who got permission to use a loudspeaker, worn around the neck, to communicate with the drivers. Without it, the coach might not have been heard -- I think the problem was laryngitis.

I guess a bullhorn would have been equally effective, but a neck speaker connected to a headset mike kept the coach's hands free. I imagine the appropriate volume set point was a topic of discussion in that team's pit.

She still uses it to this day. The difference is she is the drive coach standing right behind her drivers.. not connected to someone who is not behind the glass like the OP wanted to do.

[Michael Hill]

Remember, using your voice to produce sound is "wireless communication" :eek:

[Skyehawk]

She still uses it to this day. The difference is she is the drive coach standing right behind her drivers.. not connected to someone who is not behind the glass like the OP wanted to do.

I just skimmed the tread (so this may be redundant) but the drive coach I am aware of that does this is team 27 R.U.S.H's coach (National Woodie Flowers Award winner). I imagine she has it tuned to a rather specific volume, a bullhorn may be overkill.