Drive Practice

[beijing_strbow]

We're looking to make some significant improvements this season over last - one of which is the amount of practice our drive team gets before competition. So, how do other teams handle this? Do you have a set time where the drive team gets the robot, or separate drive meetings, or something else?

We may or may not have the resources to build a practice bot, but in the case that we do, how much does the practice bot help with drive practice?

[Dwight_2]

We're looking to make some significant improvements this season over last - one of which is the amount of practice our drive team gets before competition. So, how do other teams handle this? Do you have a set time where the drive team gets the robot, or separate drive meetings, or something else?

We may or may not have the resources to build a practice bot, but in the case that we do, how much does the practice bot help with drive practice?

Last year as a rookie team we were fortunate enough to have the funds for a practice bot, the second bot was wonderful, being on drive team myself last year I can tell you the countless long nights spent driving over defenses and scoring with my co-driver really helped develop our teamwork. however, if you don't have the funds to do the second robot I'd suggest dedicating a few days at the end of build season to "Problem Solving" days where the coders are working hand in hand with the drivers to find the problems and fix them adequately.

[D.Allred]

We're looking to make some significant improvements this season over last - one of which is the amount of practice our drive team gets before competition. So, how do other teams handle this? Do you have a set time where the drive team gets the robot, or separate drive meetings, or something else?

We may or may not have the resources to build a practice bot, but in the case that we do, how much does the practice bot help with drive practice?

We have separate drive practice time once the robot is 90%+ completed. However, we try to get as much unscheduled time to test and improve systems as they are ready during the build season.

We use a separate set of students as the "pit crew" to keep the robot operational at competitions. Any scheduled drive team practice would also include pit crew practice.

I see your team is scheduled for one regional this year and would recommend that you spend time making a tested competition robot instead of investing in a practice robot. Finish it by week 4 or 5 of build season so your can spend the last two weeks practicing and improving. Make sure you are ready to unbag the and inspect the robot immediately on practice day. You'll get good practice time on the real field and be ready to hit the ground running during the first qualification match.

David

[Damiaen_Florian]

Once your competition robot is operational drive practice is something you should aim to do as often as you can, while keeping in mind the physical limitations and wear and tear that may occur. However, choosing to sacrifice time for drive practice for other tasks (Fine-tuning, programming autonomous, etc.) is something that is dependent upon where you're at in the season and a decision you'll have to make for yourself.

Drive practice doesn't have to be treated as completely separate from build though, it allows you to see which areas of your robot may need improvement and can give you a better understanding of what your robot is capable of. This coupled with iteration on these flaws will make you much more prepared for your competition, and you should see a drastic improvement in your performance.

During drive practice I'd recommend setting a time limit of 2 minutes and 15 seconds (Standard teleop match time) for each round, this will give you a good understanding of how long that truly is and what your robot can accomplish in that time.

There're plenty of good resources on this (and strategy in general), I'm sure you can find a few threads on this topic. The first one that pops into my mind is 1114's notes (http://www.simbotics.org/resources/strategy) on strategy.

[samthesnake]

I'm in agreement with much of what those above me have said. 4256 has been fortunate to have a practice bot 4 of 5 years (every year since rookie season). We build them completely identical and spend the first few days after the robot is built debugging with the drivers on our full-size field, and we continue that until we feel we are ready for just the drivers to practice. We then make them master the button layouts. After that, we run practice matches after auto mode as much as possible, and the drivers work with the strategy team closely to figure out what we want them practicing. We get as much time with the gym as possible (our school has lots of activities, but most night the practice gym is available). We pick our drivers with them knowing full well what a commitment driving is, as most nights they are there alone through late hours of the evening. In short, we want them to get as much training as possible because a good driver is a humongous competitive advantage, and we try to increase our advantage as much as possible in all aspects of the team.

[Pauline Tasci]

On Code Orange we built 3 robots (2.5 for 2016)

1) competition robot- driven a few times before bag and tag and kept as pristine as possible

2) practice robot for drivers and trying new ideas- we practice nearly everyday and continuously improve the robot from what the drivers, mentors, and team members see happening during their practices.
The rest of the team then figures and designs solutions, while pit crew gets their practice attaching new things so we can repeat at comp and are able to fix issues quickly since they experienced them on this robot!

3) programming robot- to tune in things like autos and vision tracking, the first robot we complete!

Practice robots are so important, I can not stress them enough.
If you cannot build a full replica, build a drive base, your drivers need to know controls like the back of their hand

[GeeTwo]

If you have the resources to build a practice robot, it is the surest way to increase your practice time, and therefore performance at the robot competition.
If you are close, you can do something in between: While we have worked to build two full robots the past few years, the most important part to have a duplicate is the main chassis, including drive train and most of the control system. If you can get your manipulators down to less than 40 lb (or whatever the withholding allowance turns out to be this year) plus some easily removable/addable COTS items (or parts that you DO make two copies of), you can leave this out of the bag, transfer it to your practice chassis, and keep driving and learning pit routines between stop build and your competition(s).

If you do not have the resources for two chassis, be sure to have the robot functional at least a week before stop build so you can drive it around, get used to the controls, and identify/begin to resolve the bugs. 3946 has a goal for functionality about 2 weeks before stop build, even though we do build a second robot, it's that important.

Edit:
How many hours of practice do you usually shoot for? The actual amount depends on a lot of things, of course, but what's the goal?

We have total build meetings scheduled for about 14-15 hours each week from kickoff to final competition. We have tried to have ten or more of those hours for drive & pit practice beginning week 5 of build. We achieved that in 2015, with very little pit time. In 2016 we were a week later starting, and a far greater fraction was pit time. Improvements and work on the other robot was still taking place during drive sessions before bag. After bag, we continued improvements, built the pit decorations, and other non-robot prep for competition.

[beijing_strbow]

How many hours of practice do you usually shoot for? The actual amount depends on a lot of things, of course, but what's the goal?

[Koko Ed]

We're looking to make some significant improvements this season over last - one of which is the amount of practice our drive team gets before competition. So, how do other teams handle this? Do you have a set time where the drive team gets the robot, or separate drive meetings, or something else?

We may or may not have the resources to build a practice bot, but in the case that we do, how much does the practice bot help with drive practice?

I remember having a conversation with Dan Kimura, the former drive coach of 469, at the 2011 MARC off season event, when we were going to do a mentor match with their robot. He admitted that being able to drive their 2011 robot well takes two hours of practice a day and that is one of the determining factor for choosing a driver is a willing to practice two hours a day to perfect operating the robot. I suspect that elite teams employ the same habits with their robots (you have to have a practice robot in order to do get the amount of practice needed to get the practice you need) and drive teams.

[angelah]

We build a practice bot and have a half field in our shop. There's a smooth transition from build to driving practice. At first, drive practice requires stopping and starting multiple times to fix, adjust, and change things. It's helpful to have more than just the drivers during those times. Eventually we get to the point where we are competition ready and it's good to have time with just the drive team and a few students to assist (battery changes, field re-set, etc.)

We are small enough that our drivers are still students who built and programmed a large part of the robot, so I think it would be different for teams with specialized drivers. You might want programmers, etc. on hand during much of driving practice.

[Tungrus]

Start drive practice now! This is my 2 cent advice.

Whether you can build practice bot or not, if you have last year's robot, let your drive team start practicing now. If its a two member team, one to drive and one to manip, they can get comfortable communicating with each other. Focus on driving using shortest distance, turning and also offensive or defensive driving. If you have two drivable robots, its easier to to practice defensive driving. If you don't have a second working robot, put a tote on wheels and use as defensive robot. You can build a cheaper control systems, a simple RC system, if you need one. At this time its not about scoring, just practice drive and manip communication.

Once your drive base is ready for the new challenge, start driving and testing. Driving, coordination and communication comes with practice, so practice everyday, even if its a short time.

[berkleyfanatic]

Anyone recommends how my team should handle drive practice? Also want to add we are in a raffle for the FIM Waterford Event.

[beijing_strbow]

We have tried to have ten or more of those hours for drive & pit practice beginning week 5 of build. We achieved that in 2015, with very little pit time. In 2016 we were a week later starting, and a far greater fraction was pit time.
What does pit practice entail? Is it just when you have to fix an issue, you handle it like you would at a competition?

[D.Allred]

What does pit practice entail? Is it just when you have to fix an issue, you handle it like you would at a competition?

Our pit crew has a post match inspection checklist and pre-match routine. Pre-match the robot gets a quick check of joystick functions, charge the pneumatic system and load a fresh battery. Post match they inspect for loose items, damage, and review issues brought by the drive team.

Pit practice is just as important to prepare for a competition. Little items that can be caught in the pit can ruin a match.

David

[lark95]

Make sure you are ready to unbag the and inspect the robot immediately on practice day. You'll get good practice time on the real field and be ready to hit the ground running during the first qualification match.

David

I totally agree here. I have been primary driver for three years now and i cannot stress enough how different it is to drive on a real field with other robots and drivers. It is the best drive practice you can get. I am not sure if there is one were you are located but if it is possible try to make it to a week six build season practice competition. There is one near us put on by charger robotics 537 every year that around 20 teams come to. It is always very good drive practice.

[GeeTwo]

What does pit practice entail? Is it just when you have to fix an issue, you handle it like you would at a competition?

That's the main thing - don't bother fixing it right, just get it working again as quickly as possible - but make notes so that repeated problems will be really solved when there's time. This is also a chance for the pit crew to internalize their checklists - things like swap the battery, be sure the pneumatic dump valve is closed, chains are in place, non-loctited bolts are tight, and check that that piece of foam rubber that wears out every few matches is still in good shape, or replace it if not. In rough years (e.g. 2016), realistic pit drills are as much benefit to consistent performance as driver practice.

[SpadeSeveren]

As a member of my team's drive team, drive practice is more crucial than some people think. In 2016, we had little to no drive practice, because every time we tried, someone else would take the robot. My advice is to be as assertive as possible. Don't let people take away your practice, and have set times when you're practicing, to let everybody know.

[RobotsQ]

I understand that you can't build an entire second bot, but a second chassis is almost as good. First of all, it lets programming get the drive code done really early and gives plenty of time to tweak it to the drive team's liking (linear vs exponential input curves). Secondly if you can just get really good at maneuvering your bot, everything else gets easier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pauline Tasci]

What does pit practice entail? Is it just when you have to fix an issue, you handle it like you would at a competition?


Some of the other comments on this are great.

On 3476, I'm the mentor who oversees all pit ops:
Pit practice time obviously allows students to have the ability to fix issues quicker since they have experienced that strain before. There is something calming about knowing you can solve an issue because you've seen it before, and that really helps our students tackle tasks at comp. The awesome part is, issues will arise that they've never seen and they know exactly how to tackle those problems in a high stress environment (throwback to Newton finals 2016 for us when we had to change shooter features).

Pit practice is also important because for 3476 and a lot of teams, we are constantly changing our practice bot and need to copy that on our comp bot during the first day of our regional (California districts come sooner we want unbag time!). The pit crew will do this on our practice bot and ensure we can copy that on the comp bot without issues.

Lastly, the pit crew are the only students who talk to judges outside of Chairmans and individual awards, they must be able to properly represent all aspects of the team and we take that into consideration when picking our pit crew and what we communicate are the expectations of the pit.

You could have the best designed robot in the world, but without students and mentors who can solve issues quickly and be able to enhance features in a short time frame, the robot won't be able to perform to it's maximum capability.
(Along with a great drive team, scouting crew, ect)

[DevOrc]

How long do you generally have pit practice?

[Pauline Tasci]

How long do you generally have pit practice?

Our pit crew is nearly always at our practice field with our drive team since that's where the most ware and tare occurs.

They meet 5-6 times a week. 4 hours on weekdays and 7-9 hours on weekends.