downsizing

[Greg Perkins]

thats what this is about, DOWNSIZING.

this year our team is going through some changes this year.

1st thing. Budget cuts, our team is going cheap this year, yea i know 151 wont be a bling as it has been,

2nd. engineer/ machinist issues, we have now a limit on machine shop hours, and some of our engineers have stepped down.


I was just curious if this is happenin to any of u other teams?

Bad

[Cory]

Team 100 is definitely having trouble. The economy is so bad that we have only found enough $$ for two comps, building the bot, and absolutely nothing left over for next year. we too have been limited in machine shop hours, because we practically lived there for the six weeks. This is not something that is written out, but more understood. We are hoping to qualify for nats, but at this point if we do, we will not have the money to register.

[sanddrag]

We are down from 5 full time engineers to 3 part time engineers. Our budget is also very limited so our robot will need to be quite conservative. We also have less members. 22 last year 16 this year.

[Rob Colatutto]

we have less money this year than we did last year, but somehow were able to add a third event this year... we made up this new rating system to pay for students trips, seems like its going to work out pretty well

[David Kelly]

The economic conditions are not affecting Cyber Blue. In-fact, this seems to be our best season, as far as our financial situation goes. We have new a new sponsor LHTEC (http://www.lhtec.com) who has stepped in for this season with another possible big time sponsor on the way. We have also recieved grants that we applied for during last season, that are finally taking affect. We have lost a couple of engineers, but not due to the economy. One of our female engineers has gone back to school and another one of our engineers is splitting his time between team 234 and rookie team 1018 from Pike High School in Indianapolis.

I think we are a lucky team, seeing how the economy is right now. A large portion of our team funding comes from Rolls-Royce (http://www.rolls-royce.com) and LHTEC (http://www.lhtec.com) which are both aerospace companies. We are dependant on the airline industy and the military contracts. We just have to cross our fingers that we will continue to get support from these companies.



There are other ways for teams to find funding in addition to corporate sponsors. Cyber Blue sells 34 shirt back sponsors to local companies and businesses for $200 a spot. That brings in $6800 itself. It's a good way for the community to support. We also do carwashes at McDonalds during the summer and bring in about $300 per session.

Applying for grants is a good way to get funding. Lots of times, your school district may have an endowment or foundation that give out grants for funding. There are lots of science and technology grants out there that teams can apply for. Sometimes you cannot get the grant until the next season. You should still apply so that you can at least have some funding for the next season.

If you know that you will be hurting for cash this season, try to find ways to cut costs. If you usually go to 3 competitions, go to 2 this year so that you can save on costs. It would be more wise to save a little cash for the next season by just going to 2 insead of trying for 3 and going into debt or having to make other unfortunate cuts. You may not want to do it, but sometimes you have to make sacrefices.

There are many ways to find funding, you just go out and try new or different ways.


If you would like one of our advertising contracts that we sell to businesses, you can check out the Downloads (http://www.cyberblue234.com/downloads.html) section of our website. Anybody may modify or change the contracts to their team needs.





....enough of my ranting.

[Ricky Q.]

We have lost sponsors / engineering support as well: Quest Technolgies, our prominent sponsor since our rookie year in '99, has stepped down their funding from $5000 to $1000 this year, and we lost our main engineer to a new rookie team closer to his home, but some others have come into the fray and we hope to compete competitively this year. Its not always about the money, or having a sweet shop, its about using the resources you have and having a team that can work together, and have an awesome time. :D

[Redhead Jokes]

Originally posted by Cory
The economy is so bad that we have only found enough $$ for two comps, building the bot, and absolutely nothing left over for next year. we too have been limited in machine shop hours, because we practically lived there for the six weeks.

We haven't had computers in past years. Work had to be done at home. This year we have 1 laptop donated by a sponsor, one lent computer from same sponsor, another mentor lending a computer soon, a couple of students and a mentor bring in their laptops.

We work next to a room with lots of computers, but we're not allowed a school computer. They're "dedicated" computers to a grant, and we're not allowed to use them.

Money left over for the next year?!?

Our main partner, TRW, was sold to Northrup and we're getting mixed messages - Northrup won't fund us, Northrup will fund us, nothing's guaranteed, don't know when...

School districts are getting very major budget cuts this year and can't help.

TRW always said they wouldn't fund us if there was another partner. It was a dilemma. Cuz our team was on it's way to tripling in numbers, year round since spring 2002, expenses much more, it promised to be our biggest year ever, but they'd said we couldn't get any other partner, and wouldn't get more than $20,000.

Last year Raytheon had a meeting with community, and engineers at the meeting said they had lots of money to give, and wouldn't care if there was another partner for the team. However they turned us down.

Since then hooked up with the Raytheon engineer who said they had money to give, Raytheon just gave our school's ROTC $50,000, and he's working on getting us funds, but he and us expected that to be done already, and no sign of it yet.

Parent's Boeing turned us down. Then we hooked up with president of LA Society of Engineers who told us that division was out of money, but there are 2 other divisions who have money and we should apply there.

Our team attended Chatsworth fundraising class and got motivated to paraphrase their fundraising letter. A sponsor printed the 1000 black and white copies, a sponsor provided the paper to our ROTC so they could print our 1000 color copies, the local district's paper supplier gave us 1000 large envelopes, and 1000 business size envelopes for this fundraising effort.

fundraising letter (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/papers.php?s=&action=single&paperid=109)

The kids haven't even received the packets yet, but they're suddenly motivated. Parents companies are offering to sponsor (don't know how much yet) and kids have lists of people to approach.

Our regular open houses and other stuff regularly in the paper have drawn in a retired Raytheon electronics engineer, a local manufacturing engineer who says we have use of their machine shop and he can get tools and stuff, a local electronics engineer who owns his own company, and a few other candidates who are going to show up for kickoff.

Volunteer Match (http://www.volunteermatch.org/) got us a handful of interesting offers, but none of them panned out. I'd go ahead and register there tho. Some day something might pan out for us thru there.

I just learned last year's teacher, who's used to only a six week program, will be returning, and our 2001 championship teacher is returning for the six weeks - guess he's heard all we've got going on.

Our usual tshirt provider and money donator sold his company, and I haven't been able to reach anyone in Kiwanis, where he was a member and got us the money. Just got Kiwanis president's phone number. She told our mentor that Kiwanis doesn't fund this kind of stuff. Wha?!? I'll be calling her nicely asking for even MORE money cuz our team's grown so much.

All while kickoff is approaching....Geez!!! The roller coaster ride's going to hit very high gear for weeks.

[sanddrag]

Originally posted by Cory
Team 100 is definitely having trouble. The economy is so bad that we have only found enough $$ for two comps, building the bot, and absolutely nothing left over for next year. we too have been limited in machine shop hours, because we practically lived there for the six weeks. This is not something that is written out, but more understood. We are hoping to qualify for nats, but at this point if we do, we will not have the money to register.

I would switch team funding with you in an instant. You are very lucky to be able to go to two comps and build a bot. We currently have enough money for one comp and a robot and perhaps a couple hundred left over. And this will be a VERY conservative robot I might add. Also, we have to leave min $2500 for next year but at least we don't need that until September.

About the computers thing, our principle is really big on computers. We have more and better computers than you could ever imagine. However, we haven't the money for two comps or to build a fancy robot.:(

yet.....;)

[Redhead Jokes]

Originally posted by sanddrag
About the computers thing, our principle is really big on computers. We have more and better computers than you could ever imagine. However, we haven't the money for two comps or to build a fancy robot.:(


Our district just fazed out the program of a laptop for every freshman. don't know where all those went. Our district "RUHS is the only high school in the nation with student run ISP. Many schools have students working with IS and networks, but no others are responsible for running an ISP and for managing the district WAN." School District Technology Director

It was in the paper yesterday about school district/business partnership breakfast, superintendent exclaiming about award winning computer classes and robotics.

And as I've already shared, we work next to a classroom filled with computers,

yet we haven't gotten one from the school.

[Gadget470]

we have only found enough $$ for two comps
--
However, we haven't the money for two comps or to build a fancy robot

Clarify a bit please, comps is an abbreviation for more than one word. COMPuterS and COMPetitionS which one?

---

And on the topic at hand..

My old team, 247, has continuously been getting less financial and engineering support over it's past 5 years. We have had I think 3 engineers that have been with us since the start. 3 years ago we had 6, 2 years ago 5, last year 3, and this year I have no clue. Financially, our corporate sponsor, ComauPICO, has been having to make cutbacks within the company itself and us too. We've been able to consistently go to at least 2 competitions a year. Last year, we went to Great Lakes, Buckeye, and Canadian Regionals (didn't qualify for finals).

This year though, the team will be going to 3 regionals again even though financially it will be very hard. 247 is going to Great Lakes, Midwest, and Nat's (qualify based on odd number). The team is in bigtime financial trouble. The fundraising policy got changed bigtime which I'm pretty sure will make the travel team quite small and next year almost impossible.

Each member starts the year (in september) with $1200 to work off. Each fundraiser we do, 75% of the profits get split evenly amongst who worked the event, the remaining 25% goes to the "general fund" in which jerseys and materials are purchased for the team/class. (Robot materials are purchased by ComauPICO). If a team member drops the team, the money in their account goes to the "General Fund." At 4 'check-points' in the year, each member needs $300, 600, 900, 1200 in their account or they can not travel with the team. ex: If member A has $125 in their account at the first checkpoint, they must get a check for $175 (125+175=300) to balance their account, if member B has $350 in their account, then no check needs to be made.

Berkley is for the most part a mediocre community, financially. Most families can't afford $700+ for their student each year to do FIRST. In the past, the most we've ever had to pay is around $400 for the season. I started with 247 4 years ago, we had to make a $400 deposit which was expected to be returned in part. 2nd year I had to pay $50, and last year we had to pay $400 with no expectation of return.

I have left the team mostly due to the financial burden (my dad is on his 3rd job in 4 months) and was invited to join team 470, whom only pays if they go to nationals.

I'm making quite a few personal sacrifices to join 470 but FIRST to me is about experience and I didn't want to lose one of the biggest parts of my life so far.

Basically, to sum it all up, 247 is in a downsizing situation partly due to the economy, and partly due to decisions on fundraising.

I hope to see 247 around next year, but I honestly won't be surprised if it's gone.

[Lindy]

Well, as far as this year is concerned, it seems that our team is about in the same position as it was in the our previous (rookie) year.

That's not saying much. We were quite anemic last year. Actually, compared to some of the luxuries of more established teams, "anemic" is quite an understatement. No engineers, small robotics team, barely adequate funds, and just enough equipment to break through. Our sole programmer is one lanky high school senior -- me. (It is fortunate, I suppose, that I was well versed in computer programming to start with, but it was still quite harrowing.)

We actually did go to the Nationals last year. To this day, it boggles my mind how we managed to do so. Money was like a UFO sighting: No one really saw it, and those that claimed to were probably hallucinating. It was pretty much rectified later, but at a huge personal cost (one which that I am in no position to discern).

So, how is this year any different on than last? I'm honestly not sure. But, it does have an eerie sense of déjà vu. That is both a good and bad thing.



(To ponder: We did manage to scrap about a half-dozen or so hand-me-down PCs from a business. Of course, entailing is the fact that nearly all of them are 486SX-era machines -- a select few are first-generation Pentiums. We spent a while trying to make them work before breaking down and pulling in MS-DOS 6.22 on them. Are we any better off this year in terms of computing power?)

[sanddrag]

Our district just fazed out the program of a laptop for every freshman. don't know where all those went.
Doesn't every school have that plan and then throw it out later??? :D
Clarify a bit please, comps is an abbreviation for more than one word.
I was referring to competitions. We haven't the money for two competitions, yet.;)
If member A has $125 in their account at the first checkpoint, they must get a check for $175 (125+175=300) to balance their account
You charge your team members to participate?:eek: I hope that only goes for their own travel costs.:confused:

[Madison]

Originally posted by sanddrag
You charge your team members to participate?:eek: I hope that only goes for their own travel costs.:confused:

We charge our team members to participate.

We don't charge a lot, really - probably no more than $50 over the course of a year - but it is effectively the same.

We ask for $10 dues, as well as collect admission at a few required team fundraisers and meetings.

[David Kelly]

We charge our students $250 to travel. That is very cheap compared to what we had changed in the past, which was up around $700 per student back in '00. Charging the students helps give them some ownership to the team and robot. If a student is unable to pay to travel, that will not mean they can't travel with us. We work with all students if they may have some financial dificulties.




students are also required to attend 80% of the meetings and sell at least 2 of our $250 shirt back sponsors. A portion of the shirt back's that they sell will go towards their travel.

[DanLevin247]

My team is ecomonically reeling. When we have a fundraiser, 75% of the money made is divided up evenly amongst those students who attended, and 25% goes straight to the team account. We do bottle drives, raffles, car washes, gift wrapping and flyer passouts, but no matter what we do this year, we bring in diddly squat for a profit, and the students are having a hard time keeping their travel acounts up to date, to travel on my team, you have to pay $1,400

[Chris Nowak]

I think we charge the students like 300 or something like that...Im not too sure. This year we have to decide, if we reserve tickets ahead of time, who will be the one with the bill, as it is going to be a gamble (were only going to houston if we qualify). We have to decide whether the students will lose money or the sponsor if we dont qualify...

As far as the point of this thread, we might actually be better off because we are getting a new sponsor, Donnelly, and while they have committed to no financial amount, there are like 10 engineers were getting from them.

[Ian Mathew]

Well, at 292 we have been fortunate enough to be getting great deals on travel, and building the robot from our sponsor. We have also managed to get grants from the state, by completing workshops that we, the students are required to attend. Our school bought computers just before the state cut school budgets, which was also very lucky, though it'll hurt our school now. I don't know our full situation, though, but we are looking okay for this year in terms of money.

[Gadget470]

danlevin53 basically summed up the book i wrote a few posts up about 247's situation, way to read Dan, way to read. You'll hear this again on monday :-)

[DanLevin247]

My bad Gadget, I'm used to seing Gadget247 instead of Gadget470...oh well.


As for 247, it's been in a downward spiral for a long time. Students are faced with an incredible fundraising burden like Gadget said, I currently have 304 dollars in my travel acount, which means i will have to pay roughly 195 dollars by the middle of Janurary to bring my acount up to date...which is really hard on my family, we have to dip into the money my grandmother left us when she passed away just to pay for my travel. Most kids on the team don't have acess to this kind of money, and sadly, because they have yet to learn anything about "robotics" in class, they are in turn dropping the class all together because of their lack of desire to participate in a demanding after school schedule and burn a 1200 dollar hole in their pockets. Our team is also a class, if you haven't realized it already, and the class aspect of the team is sadly, all but gone. We have a great teacher who doubles as our coach, but the class must be veru hard to write cirriculum for.


As for sponsorship, 247 is on it's way out. I think that if we don't get sponsorship from additional compainies soon, 247 will cease to exist. I think that it would be wonderful if FIRST was able to recognize the financial prediciment of some teams, and make their best effort to turn sponsors their way. I mean, NO TEAM, even MOE and their loud sticks, deserves to go out of existance, right?

[D. Gregory]

At the moment 849 is dirt poor. We are waiting to hear from our School Board whether they will help us. We can pay the entry fee but thats about it.

[Gadget470]

2 things:

first off: sanddrag
You charge your team members to participate? I hope that only goes for their own travel costs.
That was in referance to 247's situation, I was not a mentor there so it wasn't my choice to charge for participation. The participation fee only applys to those whom wish to travel with the team. Also, the money is going towards each member's own travel costs... if it costs $1200 each that is, which I doubt. Close to $900 maybe, considering that one of the regionals we don't get a hotel or fly to, it's a 45 minute drive in the morning.
My rough estimates:
Hotel in Chicago area [3 nights / 3 people a room] $75 (25 per person, per night)
2-way ticket to Texas: $300-$350
Hotel in Texas [5 nights / 4 people in a room] $100 (20 per person, per night)

To me that adds up to be roughly $500 per person. The travel costs (to my knowledge) don't include food, which would be an additional less than $200 each.

Something seems awry, I hope I'm just missing a big peice.

secondly: danlevin247
I think that it would be wonderful if FIRST was able to recognize the financial prediciment of some teams, and make their best effort to turn sponsors their way.

FIRST itself is in a financial predicament, which is why some regionals are going to be "streamlined" to save money. The sponsors of FIRST do, in effect, sponsor teams. Example, SMC Pneumatics gives FIRST roughly $1.2M (raw value) in parts to go into kits, plus the cost of the shipment (According to a conversation with Dave Johnson of SMC). If they were to pick specific teams to sponsor it wouldn't be fair to the others. Given that there are just over 1000 teams participating in FIRST, that makes for $1,200 per team. I think that is a better deal than $5000 to one team and skimping on others. FIRST's major corparate sponsors aren't getting "name recognition" by sponsoring FIRST, yes they get their name all over the place, but the people that see it already know who they are.

Ok.. that stammered a bit, what I'm basically trying to say is that FIRST's sponsors are are already dropping a big load of money to help out all teams, it would be too hard to pick and choose who gets to be sponsored by FIRST's sponsors.

There are too many levels and needs by teams.. Financial, Material, Mechanical, Engineers.. the list goes on

[Mark Hamilton]

We Have felt the bite as well. Our Budget is severly reduced, our engineers can no longer spend as much time, and we have less time at our build site. However, those teams that still have sponsors at all should be thankful. Some teams that competed last year won't be back again due to lack of funding.

[Matt Attallah]

*Ouch*

My team is not really feeling anything. Last year was our worst year, i think. But this year, we are doing OK...

We have a fair amount of $ for the regionals, but we need to get more, a lot, for Nats...:ahh:

[Stephen Kowski]

The real issue is not engineering problems, our sponsor is contributing more than ever this year. The issue is our travel costs the Nationals in Florida were nice and cheap now we are not in the best position for all of our team to go to Houston. :(