Parts dropped from the 2003 Kit of Parts? [Archive]

dlavery

14-12-2002, 20:31

I heard somewhere that all motors have been dropped from the 2003 kit. All motions on the robots will be enabled through energy stored in very large "garage door" style springs. A real understanding of kinematics, kinetic/potential energy utilization, and dynamic efficiency will be absolutely required to build a successful robot for this year.

-dave

MattK

14-12-2002, 20:53

Originally posted by dlavery
I heard somewhere that all motors have been dropped from the 2003 kit. All motions on the robots will be enabled through energy stored in very large "garage door" style springs. A real understanding of kinematics, kinetic/potential energy utilization, and dynamic efficiency will be absolutely required to build a successful robot for this year.

-dave

That would make the robots less heavy but... I dunno that would be a big change and not to mention dangerous. If one of those things let go and hit someone in the face... there could be serious problems

Amber H.

14-12-2002, 21:02

Surely you jest Mr. Lavery!

My inside sources tell me that due to recent financial strains, the 2003 kit will consist of one standard set of tinker toys, three hundred premium grade rubber bands, and a box of paper clips.

Oh the creative possibilities!

JK.......

On a more serious note;

I really do like the possibility of the springs though. If it is indeed true that they will use the springs, I am excited to see what people come up with.

D.J. Fluck

14-12-2002, 21:08

Originally posted by MattK
That would make the robots less heavy but... I dunno that would be a big change and not to mention dangerous. If one of those things let go and hit someone in the face... there could be serious problems

Are you being serious?? :confused:

ChrisH

14-12-2002, 22:55

Originally posted by D.J. Fluck
Are you being serious?? :confused:

Before anybody starts panicing, check the forum name.

This is the Rumor Mill, it has that name for a reason.

The only person who ever posts anything serious here is Ken L. You should know better by now DJ.

D.J. Fluck

14-12-2002, 22:59

Originally posted by ChrisH
Before anybody starts panicing, check the forum name.

This is the Rumor Mill, it has that name for a reason.

The only person who ever posts anything serious here is Ken L. You should know better by now DJ.

Yeah thats kinda obvious... MattK's post kinda baffled me there for a second. I was wondering if he seriously believed Dave's post :confused:

Jack

15-12-2002, 00:04

I don't think that it will go to just springs. While it would be harder from an engineering standpoint, i think it would be less 'cool' for 'out-siders' which is something FIRST doesn't want to do.

While FIRST won't ever do something like battlebots, they do need to make something that is exciting and makes people want to watch. And, i'm sorry, but people want action, not a pile full of springs. (Even if they can get a ton of work out of them)

If first ever wants to 'replace' football, FIRST need to do what the public wants to see. They can't tell the public what they will see.

They need to develop a game where things can be changed on-the-fly to create something new. Like any sport. The 'game' stays the same, and the players stay the same (the parts which we are allowed to use), but the manner in which the players accomplish the game changes. It is the thrill of seeing what play the team will run, and how the other team reacts that makes watching football cool. But, how it is now, the overall strategy doesn't change enough between matches.

Sorry, got a little off topic, but what we are given in the KOPs really determines what we can or can't do.

EStokely

15-12-2002, 00:37

I would bet that we see drill motors

As for any of the others? Well I like change. It keeps us all remembering what its like to be a rookie team
"How do we make that motor do this?"

But I like the rubberband idea, with a 30 pound weight limit

Getting close now....

Brandon Martus

15-12-2002, 00:39

Originally posted by dlavery
I heard somewhere that all motors have been dropped from the 2003 kit. All motions on the robots will be enabled through energy stored in very large "garage door" style springs. A real understanding of kinematics, kinetic/potential energy utilization, and dynamic efficiency will be absolutely required to build a successful robot for this year.

-dave

I think I remember seeing a Junkyard Wars episode like this. They had to rely on stored energy, rather than motors/engines. Rubberbands, washing machine drums, and other things were used to store the energy needed to race around a track.

Dave_222

16-12-2002, 12:17

I think we are still getting drill morors just a differnt style.

Ken Loyd

16-12-2002, 14:21

Originally posted by dlavery
I heard somewhere that all motors have been dropped from the 2003 kit. All motions on the robots will be enabled through energy stored in very large "garage door" style springs. A real understanding of kinematics, kinetic/potential energy utilization, and dynamic efficiency will be absolutely required to build a successful robot for this year.

-dave

Just think of all the time this will save Rookie teams. No more hours of drilling holes in the battery to lose weight.

Ken Loyd
Team 64

Alex Forest

16-12-2002, 17:22

so thats what we were supposed to do. i thought that drilling them in pnematics was kind of silly...

Gadget470

16-12-2002, 17:38

Har, I remember a post about that kind of thing in a official FAQ from FIRST.

"Can we drill holes in the very heavy air tank to drop weight?"

srawls

16-12-2002, 17:49

so thats what we were supposed to do. i thought that drilling them in pnematics was kind of silly...

heh ... amateur. you wanna lose weight? well, who needs insulation anyway!

lol, just kidding :)
Stephen

RebAl

16-12-2002, 18:04

Speed holes in the battery help with weight, make sure to wear gloves.

Rob Colatutto

16-12-2002, 18:08

new model drill motors (3), atwood (chippy), no fp, globes (2), and then 2 sets of 2 new motors is my guessings

Kyle Fenton

16-12-2002, 18:13

Originally posted by D.J. Fluck
Over the years, FIRST has dropped parts from the Kit of Parts. Has anyone heard anything about parts being dropped from the 2003 Kit of Parts that were in the 2002 K.O.P.?

Here is what I heard that might be in the new kit

* 80 amp Fuses (Strong Possibility)

* Better Drill motors (So they don't burn out as easy)

* Atwoods with a better shaft and gear

*No seat motors (They gave a whole bunch away at the Yard Sale), I am most likely thinking that they are giving us something comparable, because they have been very helpful in the past

* New Victors (This is positive, check IFI website http://www.innovationfirst.com/FIRSTRobotics/Victor_884.htm)

* Better battery charger (Said at Team Forum)

*I'm betting that there is at least another sensor they are going to add

David Kelso

16-12-2002, 18:45

Remember, the materials in the yard sale is often stuff that they do not have enough of to give out to close to 1000 teams...

They try to make kits VERY similar....you do not want someone else to have a different motor design or power rating than you.

team222badbrad

16-12-2002, 23:28

I know for a fact that their will be new drill motors!!!

Several months ago my advisor called up BOSCH to order drill motors to have for spares. The guy said he could not sell them. Then my advisor went on to say they were for last year and the guy said OH!!!!! SO a guy from BOSCH leaked it out to us :-)

(I am not joking)

Andy Baker

16-12-2002, 23:34

Originally posted by team222badbrad
I know for a fact that their will be new drill motors!!!

Several months ago my advisor called up BOSCH to order drill motors to have for spares. The guy said he could not sell them. Then my advisor went on to say they were for last year and the guy said OH!!!!! SO a guy from BOSCH leaked it out to us :-)

This same claim has been made almost every year. It may be true, but just because the Bosch guy says it does not mean that it is a fact.

The Bosch drill motor has been a workhorse for FIRST robots every year since the mid-90s... If it is replaced, I would bet that it's replacement it almost the same.

Andy B.

Jnadke

17-12-2002, 00:15

Originally posted by Kyle Fenton
Here is what I heard that might be in the new kit

* 80 amp Fuses (Strong Possibility)
I highly doubt this. Using more current from the battery isn't good for it chemically, and can create excessive heat leading to excessive resistance, and even more hazardous conditions.

Also, the victor 884's can only handle 40 amps maximum, chances of this happening are next to nothing. I could see them, however, providing 40 Amp thermal breakers.

If you mean 80 Amp main breaker, that could be possible.

* Atwoods with a better shaft and gear

This is probable, since last year so many teams had problems.

*No seat motors (They gave a whole bunch away at the Yard Sale), I am most likely thinking that they are giving us something comparable, because they have been very helpful in the past.

We didn't even have seat motors last year! Of course there will be no more. Are you referring to window motors?

* New Victors (This is positive, check IFI website http://www.innovationfirst.com/FIRSTRobotics/Victor_884.htm)

This is a given, as the old 883's are no longer listed on Innovation FIRST's website. It has been this way for a while.

sanddrag

17-12-2002, 10:36

Originally posted by Jnadke

We didn't even have seat motors last year! Of course there will be no more. Are you referring to window motors?

We had both seat and window motors last year. The seat motors are driving our arms and we still have other ones from 2001

TF8

03-01-2003, 10:12

I still believe we will have the same model drill this year because there were non given out at the yard sale this fall. Each year they tend to give away stuff we will not use in the future. This year they gave away a lot of atwoods(cases) and lots of the old window and fisher price motors. I believe we will have a new custom pnuematic ruleset this year as the gave away all the pnuematic surplus. Who really knows? Only a few! We will all know tomorow if the NASA truck gets to Manchester. I live in Nashua 20 mins south of manchester and its already starting to snow (poss. 12~16 inches) at 10:00. What are volvos for anyways?

Tyler

Matt Attallah

03-01-2003, 11:02

with the Victors 884s, i don't see us getting 24V for juce eather...:(

TF8

03-01-2003, 11:08

we in first are very isolated to the speed controller and control systems out there. there are many robot controllers for the combat and sumo classes that are very much suited to first. there is a 24v version of the victor that has an opperating range of 6 to 30v and a peak continuous current of about 70 amps. all for like $10 more than the cheesy 12v models we get. they also make spin controllers for single direction control, higher current models which we dont need cus we use weak motors and in the future higher voltage models. these are only the esc's made by ifi not to mention vantec, osmc and astroflights. there is a world of stuff out there i wish we could use.

Tyler

Gary Dillard

03-01-2003, 12:18

all motion by springs, no motors? Sure would make the software task simple, if not obsolete.

Matt Leese

03-01-2003, 15:23

The only difference between the 12V Victor and the 24V Victor is the muffin fan on top. The muffin fan on the 12V Victor is only rated for 12V and that on the 24V Victor to 24V. The actual h-bridge is exactly the same. So, in the case of the speed controllers, it's very conceivable for us to switch to 24V.

Matt

David Kelly

03-01-2003, 15:42

this isn't necessary parts dropped but...

I was listening in on the edu robot workshop and they said that the kits are going to be significantly different. we are also going to be getting new robot RI and OI's. they will allow for more feedback to the drivers and allow for autonomous operation. the PBASIC program will allow for IF THEN statements.

Madison

03-01-2003, 15:49

Originally posted by David Kelly
this isn't necessary parts dropped but...

I was listening in on the edu robot workshop and they said that the kits are going to be significantly different. we are also going to be getting new robot RI and OI's. they will allow for more feedback to the drivers and allow for autonomous operation. the PBASIC program will allow for IF THEN statements.

We already have the Operator Interfaces :)

David Kelly

03-01-2003, 15:53

from what my ears heard, the man giving the programing workshop said that we are getting new RO and OI's in aditional to the one that we recieved earlier. and it's the Blue 884 version. i double checked this with the people that i was sitting with and they heard the same thing.

Elgin Clock

03-01-2003, 15:59

Originally posted by M. Krass
We already have the Operator Interfaces :)

Yeah, I truly hope everyone did read that tiny slip of paper that came with the EduBots that said our Operator Interfaces are the same ones that were shipped with the EduBots.

Matt Reiland

03-01-2003, 16:22

I noticed that the new operator interface is capable of receiving a byte of information from the robot controller and displaying it in the Team Number LED's which could be useful if you aren't using the dashboard

sanddrag

03-01-2003, 19:16

Originally posted by Matt Reiland
I noticed that the new operator interface is capable of receiving a byte of information from the robot controller and displaying it in the Team Number LED's which could be useful if you aren't using the dashboard

What could this be useful for?

srawls

03-01-2003, 19:29

Originally posted by sanddrag
What could this be useful for?

Lots of things--it is a way to display information to the drivers and operators. Let's say you have a goal grabber, but it is slow to release. You don't want to pull away until the goal grabber is all the way released, so you have a limit switch to tell you if it is released or not. You could use this to display that information. Of course, you could always do that with leds before, the usefulness of this is that it can accept information from an analog sensor.

One last example. Suppose you have a ball launcher to shoot the soccor balls into the basket, and that you can tilt the launcher at different angles. You could use the team-number-led display to tell the operator what angle the ball launcher is in, which would be helpful if he had to manually aim.

There's no limit to possibilities really, it is a way to display information. Sorry if my examples aren't very good, I'm to busy waiting for tommorow :)

Stephen