Maximum Number of Points [Archive]

Noah

04-01-2003, 18:53

hmm... not taking into account the QPs, the most Points you can have is when you have all 45 boxes on your side is when you have a stack 22 or 23 high and 23 or 22 boxes on the ground. It would give your side 506 points.

SkitzoSmurf

04-01-2003, 19:21

Was talking to rick on my team, A.K.A. Ricksta121, and he said the max score was basically inpossible but he said it was 666. Found that odd.

AJ Quick

04-01-2003, 19:26

Originally posted by Noah
hmm... not taking into account the QPs, the most Points you can have is when you have all 45 boxes on your side is when you have a stack 22 or 23 high and 23 or 22 boxes on the ground. It would give your side 506 points.

Don't forget the possible 50 points you can get from both the bots being on the ramp. So then 556 total points?

Originally posted by SkitzoSmurf
Was talking to rick on my team, A.K.A. Ricksta121, and he said the max score was basically inpossible but he said it was 666. Found that odd.

Actually its 606, but would require the following configuration:

Blue
Stacked: 23
On Ground: 22
On Ramp: 2

23 x 22 + 50 = 556

Red
Stacked: 0
On Ground: 0
On Ramp: 2

0 x 0 + 50 = 50

So in total there are 606 points to be had, but the highest a team (alliance) can get is 556.

Dinush

04-01-2003, 19:27

This really sounds impossible- 22 boxes in one stack. But than how many you think is possible? 10? 8?

Melissa Nute

04-01-2003, 19:28

Originally posted by AJ Quick
Don't forget the possible 50 points you can get from both the bots being on the ramp. So then 556 total points?
hypothetically you can get 4 bots on the ramp....
so 606?

riley_ag

04-01-2003, 19:29

our team got 1158! even more impossible to accomplish though
:ahh:

Joe Matt

04-01-2003, 19:30

606 sounds right. But then you need a bot that can put 22 bins ontop of eachother and the opposing aliance has to be dead. :ahh:

BTW, who else thinks this will be a VERY loud game?

SkitzoSmurf

04-01-2003, 19:32

Definately going to be a loud game, horribly. One thing that I noticed all of the engineers were pleased about was the fact of NO MORE BALLS. it seems that they didnt like it when soccar balls came from no where striking them in the head while they were sawing something, lol. Now what happens if team mates start throwing boxes?

Ian Mathew

04-01-2003, 19:34

Originally posted by AJ Quick
Don't forget the possible 50 points you can get from both the bots being on the ramp. So then 556 total points?

Actually its 606, but would require the following configuration:

Blue
Stacked: 23
On Ground: 22
On Ramp: 2

23 x 22 + 50 = 556

Red
Stacked: 0
On Ground: 0
On Ramp: 2

0 x 0 + 50 = 50

So in total there are 606 points to be had, but the highest a team (alliance) can get is 556.

It would end up being 656:
Same blue and red scores with this importand adjustment:
your opponent's score is multiplied by 2. Therefore, it'd be 556+100 if all 4 bots got on that middle thing.

IsabelRinging

04-01-2003, 19:44

Oooh, but don't forget the situation where the height of the stack is higher than the actual number of boxes in the stack.

So...

24 stack height x 22 boxes + 50 = 578 points

0 stack x 0 boxes + 50 = 50 points

578 + 50(2) = 678 QPs/EPs

Ian Mathew

04-01-2003, 19:49

Originally posted by IsabelRinging
Oooh, but don't forget the situation where the height of the stack is higher than the actual number of boxes in the stack.

So...

24 stack height x 22 boxes + 50 = 578 points

0 stack x 0 boxes + 50 = 50 points

578 + 50(2) = 678 QPs/EPs
Ah...BUT:
Take one box down and turn the top one sideways: 23X23=529+50=579+100 from other team is 679. :p

IsabelRinging

04-01-2003, 19:54

Originally posted by Ian Mathew
Ah...BUT:
Take one box down and turn the top one sideways: 23X23=529+50=579+100 from other team is 679. :p

But... but... I checked that!

*busts out the calculator*

:o

Seriously, I thought of that and tried it. Maybe I'm just calculator-retarded. :p :D

OneAngryDaisy

04-01-2003, 19:54

All that math's hurting my brain- build a robot that can stack 23 of those boxes up, post a picture of it- and then you can talk about this... That robot'd surely be stability-challenged

AJ Quick

04-01-2003, 19:56

Well, if you stack them all up the long way, end to end you could technically account for 12.41 (13) extra boxes!

So:

Blue

Stacks: 36
On Ground: 22
On Bridge: 50

36 x 22 + 50 = 842

Red

Stacks: 0
On Ground: 0
On Bridge: 50

0 x 0 + 50 = 50
50 x 2 = 100

So the total for everything is around 942!

Jnadke

04-01-2003, 19:56

What about the DQ multiplier?

Many people are miscounting containers. There are 8 containers per alliance, and 29 in the middle. That is 45 containers.

23 containers * 22 containers = 506 pts
2 robots * 25 pts/each = 50 pts
556pts * 2 DQ multiplier = 1112 pts

1112 points is the maximum a team can achieve.

Bduggan04

04-01-2003, 19:57

Originally posted by IsabelRinging
Oooh, but don't forget the situation where the height of the stack is higher than the actual number of boxes in the stack.

So...

24 stack height x 22 boxes + 50 = 578 points

0 stack x 0 boxes + 50 = 50 points

578 + 50(2) = 678 QPs/EPs

One problem... There aren't 46 tubs.

The HIGHEST score is actually:

2(23 Stack Hieght x 22 boxes + 100)= 1212 points

Where does the first 2 come from? If an opponent is disqualified you get twice your own score. It isn't likely, but I believe last years high score was set by a team that profited from a rule similar to this.

I'm editing this because while I type this 3 other people posted as well (Only on CD):D .

Anyway Someone else said that you couldd stack them on their side to get 942 (946?? I don't remember). Just double it and that's the highest.

1884 Points (Good Luck)

Joel J

04-01-2003, 19:59

hrm.. seems to me.. that:

Red
Stacked: 23
On Ground: 23
On Ramp: 2
23 x 23 + 50 = 579

Blue
Stacked: 0
On Ground: 0
On Ramp: 2
0 x 0 + 50 = 50

The kicker? Blue gets disqualified, thus making the final score of the red alliance: 2*579, or 1158.

This is impossible.. if anyone were to do this, I would shake their hand.

Joel J

04-01-2003, 20:01

Originally posted by Bduggan04
One problem... There aren't 46 tubs.

The HIGHEST score is actually:

2(23 Stack Hieght x 22 boxes + 100)= 1212 points

Where does the first 2 come from? If an opponent is disqualified you get twice your own score. It isn't likely, but I believe last years high score was set by a team that profited from a rule similar to this. hrm.. May I ask where you got that 100 from?

IsabelRinging

04-01-2003, 20:01

AJ Quick

04-01-2003, 20:01

Originally posted by Bduggan04
2(23 Stack Hieght x 22 boxes + 100)= 1212 points

So then:

2(36 Stacked the long way x 22 boxes + 50) = 1684 ?? :D

Bduggan04

04-01-2003, 20:05

Originally posted by Joel J.
hrm.. May I ask where you got that 100 from?

Sure. From What I gathered from the kickoff, if a robot is on top of another, the bottom robot gets an extra 25 points for having them on the ramp. If both of your robots cariied two others you could get 100. However, this should be cleared up by first.

Noelle

04-01-2003, 20:06

Hey, the highest possible score will always come from having an equal pile of boxs in the stack and on the ground. That's where the whole quadatic equation comes into place. (parabola would have the highest point where ax squared= bx)

Bduggan04

04-01-2003, 20:09

Originally posted by IsabelRinging
The stack of 24 box height actually consists of 23 boxes. One of them is stacked on its side or upside down, making the height of the stack exceed 23 boxes. They demonstrated how this can happen during kickoff.

Yeah I forgot that, and actually you could go much higher than 24.

Noelle

04-01-2003, 20:09

Sure. From What I gathered from the kickoff, if a robot is on top of another, the bottom robot gets an extra 25 points for having them on the ramp. If both of your robots cariied two others you could get 100. However, this should be cleared up by first.

No, the top robot just gets the scoring points of the bottom robot, 25 if the bottom gets them, 0 if the bottom robot doesnt. But what if the top robot isn't totally in the scoring area?

Bduggan04

04-01-2003, 20:12

Originally posted by Noelle
Hey, the highest possible score will always come from having an equal pile of boxs in the stack and on the ground. That's where the whole quadatic equation comes into place. (parabola would have the highest point where ax squared= bx)

Good call. That's where the 942 in an earlier post comes from. That would make 1884 the higest score.

Katie Reynolds

04-01-2003, 20:20

Anyone take into account yet, that the top bin of a stack can be turned on it's side to give you the height or one more bin? Remember: It's not how many bins you have, it's the height that counts!

- Katie

Noelle

04-01-2003, 20:25

Originally posted by AJ Quick
So then:

2(36 Stacked the long way x 22 boxes + 50) = 1684 ?? :D

36 stacked the long way? how is that?

OneAngryDaisy

04-01-2003, 20:32

Originally posted by Noelle
36 stacked the long way? how is that?

even though its probably impossible, use your imagination- stack the boxes so that their longer side faces up in the air-

Bduggan04

04-01-2003, 20:36

Originally posted by Katie Reynolds
Anyone take into account yet, that the top bin of a stack can be turned on it's side to give you the height or one more bin? Remember: It's not how many bins you have, it's the height that counts!

- Katie

This was already mentioned.

Noelle

04-01-2003, 20:36

Originally posted by OneAngryDaisy
even though its probably impossible, use your imagination- stack the boxes so that their longer side faces up in the air-

you guys actually figured out how many extra it would be? also... wouldnt you start taking down some to make it closer to even stack to floor ratio?

Joe Matt

04-01-2003, 20:41

Using my handy dandy worksheet skills, I have created a fully functional worksheet to find out the winner.

Bduggan04

04-01-2003, 21:04

You forgot to take disqualifications into account.

Joe Matt

04-01-2003, 21:17

If you are DQ'ed, you don't get any points. So it dosn't matter. :p

J/K I'll try to add that and mess around to see what works best.

Bduggan04

04-01-2003, 21:31

If Your opponent gets DQ'ed you get twice your score.

The max score is actually 1784. I have a spread sheet that simulated every different arrangement and 1784 comes when you have 21 stack 24 unstacked and again with 23 stacked and 22 unstacked.

I'm pretty sure that my math is right. I don't think earlier posts were too accurate as far as the final score. This will hopefully settle this. Note: this includes getting points for all four robots on the ramp. However, with only two 1684 becomes the high and with the same arrangements.

Elgin Clock

04-01-2003, 22:10

Originally posted by OneAngryDaisy
even though its probably impossible, use your imagination- stack the boxes so that their longer side faces up in the air-

That is very unlikely (re: impossible) because of the shape of the containers, they have a tapered end. They are molded after all, and in order for you to stack them end to end you would have to stack them the long way, but have the lid side and the non lid side be opposed all the way up. For example, first one lid facing right, 2nd lid facing left, 3rd right and so on. But you would still get the angle from the bottom one resting on that tapered angle unless you would lean it against something. It might be possible to stack one or two, but no more unless you interact with the stack which is a no-no!

I think that only one container will be put on it's side in a stack, and that will have to be the one on top as demonstrated at Kickoff.

Oh and if someone does happen to stack 23 containers on top of each other, this would result in a stack that is over 30 feet tall. 30.1875 ft. to be exact or 362 1/4 inches
I hope our competition venues have tall ceilings!!!!!

Bduggan04

04-01-2003, 22:12

While it is physically impossible, it would still be the highest score. Because this can't ever be met, we may have to wait until competitions to get a more reasonable estimate of what is high.

Noelle

04-01-2003, 22:26

Originally posted by Bduggan04
If Your opponent gets DQ'ed you get twice your score.

The max score is actually 1784. I have a spread sheet that simulated every different arrangement and 1784 comes when you have 21 stack 24 unstacked and again with 23 stacked and 22 unstacked.

I'm pretty sure that my math is right. I don't think earlier posts were too accurate as far as the final score. This will hopefully settle this. Note: this includes getting points for all four robots on the ramp. However, with only two 1684 becomes the high and with the same arrangements.

your doing that with one allience getting DQ'ed right? then the two robots of the QD's team wouldnt count in witch would make the 1648 the right one. BUT i dont see how 2(21x24+50)= 1684 check your math maybe? its actually 1108.... and even with your calculations you dont have the top one tilted... 23 (22 stack) times 23 laying on the ground........

Bduggan04

04-01-2003, 22:30

Originally posted by Noelle
your doing that with one allience getting DQ'ed right? then the two robots of the QD's team wouldnt count in witch would make the 1648 the right one. BUT i dont see how 2(21x24+50)= 1684 check your math maybe? its actually 1108.... and even with your calculations you dont have the top one tilted... 23 (22 stack) times 23 laying on the ground........

You're not thinking out of the box. If each contaner was stacked length to length you'd have 24.25"*#ofbinsstacked/15.75"

15.75" is the hieght of one bin in it normal orientation. 24.25" is how long it is.

With 21 stacked the actual hieght would be 33 boxes.
With 24 it's 36 high

Noelle

04-01-2003, 23:10

sorry didnt realize you meant to have them stacked that way, but still 22 and 23 isnt the highest?

Cory

04-01-2003, 23:14

It is impossible to ever get the maximum number of points, simply because it would be impossible to reach high enough to stack 22 boxes. Also, who really thinks that 22 will stack without tipping? I dont...

Cory

Joe Matt

04-01-2003, 23:18

Update :)

Dinush

04-01-2003, 23:37

wouldn't it be nice to stack them so that one box is right side up, second box is bottom side up, third is right side up, etc? they won't 'nest' that way, so I think every two boxes will count in hight as three? I'm not sure really about the height- i'm a metric person and really can't calculate in your imperial system.

Cory

05-01-2003, 01:25

Originally posted by Noelle
your doing that with one allience getting DQ'ed right? then the two robots of the QD's team wouldnt count in witch would make the 1648 the right one. BUT i dont see how 2(21x24+50)= 1684 check your math maybe? its actually 1108.... and even with your calculations you dont have the top one tilted... 23 (22 stack) times 23 laying on the ground........

This does not just apply to you, but to everyone talkign about DQ's. Keep in mind:

"In the qualification matches, if a referee disqualifies a team, only that team is disqualified." The Game, 9.6

So..... you can never even get 1000 points, except for in the finals, where you would never ever be able to keep a stack of 23 bins together

Cory

Mike537Strategy

05-01-2003, 01:28

I don't think you people would really need this, but using the 22 stack and 23 boxes rule I found the ratio for most points...

1:1.41 (stack:boxes in score zone)

that is a more real-world idea because no team is going to get a stack of more than 15 anyway...it would take way too much time, especially if you don't have any defense around the stack.

Noelle

05-01-2003, 09:37

Originally posted by Bduggan04
You're not thinking out of the box. If each contaner was stacked length to length you'd have 24.25"*#ofbinsstacked/15.75"

15.75" is the hieght of one bin in it normal orientation. 24.25" is how long it is.

With 21 stacked the actual hieght would be 33 boxes.
With 24 it's 36 high

Would 18 stacked= 30 boxes if they were all in long position?
and 15=27?

Ian Mathew

05-01-2003, 12:42

I guess technically that would be possible...but c'mon, 20 some boxes stacked up end-to-end where they aren't tapered or anything. It would fall and crush your robot...well, if they put weights in them it would.

Rob36

08-01-2003, 18:09

Though basically impossible, the maximum amount of points that you are able to score is 1,112
First, you have a stack or 22 and 23 others in your zone (or the other way around), giving you 506 points
Then You must have both you and your alliances robot on top for 25 points each, 50 points total 50 + 506 = 556
Then as I read in the rules, if both members in the enemy alliance are Disqualified, then instead of doubling their total score, you instead double yours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
506 x 2 = 1,112
I garuntee that nobody will get this amount due to not being able to stack 22 boxes, but it's still possible

There's actually a way to get more, but I forgot how

Any questions, ask me at I2ob36@hotmail.com
OR
IM me, my SN is I2ob36

Cpt S.T.U.C

09-01-2003, 00:25

If there's one thing I've learned over the years it's... If you think it is imposible, some other team will do it. Anyways, while design I came up with a system to lift almost 30ft. It would certainly be pushing weight restraints... not to mention every other part rule known to first. I wanted to build it just to watch it fall over during a match... hehe a 30 ft, 80 lb arm falling across that lexan siding of the ramp... SMASH! That's if it didn't collapse under it's own weight in the first place. But somehow I know some team will figure it out...