View Full Version : Launching Boxes
I was first reluctant to post this, but one of the ideas i have had for a robot is one that launches boxes back to my teams scoring zone. At first, many team members liked the idea, now, they are not liking it as much. They fear a few things.
1. That it may violate the rule stating that any danger of harming the environment, other robots, or the boxes may get you disqualified
2. They feal that it would be hard to be able to launch the boxes as far as needed to do this.
I personally think that this strategy of "launching" boxes is the best strategy possible, and that the rules don't prohibit it, but they feal differently
So, i have 2 questions
1. Would launching boxes in such a way violate any rules
2. How heavy are the boxes?
Please help :D
Aaron Lussier
06-01-2003, 20:18
Originally posted by Zetre
I was first reluctant to post this, but one of the ideas i have had for a robot is one that launches boxes back to my teams scoring zone. At first, many team members liked the idea, now, they are not liking it as much. They fear a few things.
1. That it may violate the rule stating that any danger of harming the environment, other robots, or the boxes may get you disqualified
2. They feal that it would be hard to be able to launch the boxes as far as needed to do this.
I personally think that this strategy of "launching" boxes is the best strategy possible, and that the rules don't prohibit it, but they feal differently
So, i have 2 questions
1. Would launching boxes in such a way violate any rules
2. How heavy are the boxes?
Please help :D
1. No becasue in the rules they say that it is allowable to launch the boxes
2. 5.10lbs.
it never specifies however how far they intend these things to be launched. The judge may feal that us launching them really far, at high velocities may be dangerous, and they may disqualify us.
It is hard to tell, thank you for your reply though
yes it seems many teams secret plan was to throw boxes though I believe our team is working on something much more diabolical muahahahhahaa
HolyMasamune
06-01-2003, 22:45
I think just as long as the refs don't feel that the robot (player) is intentionally trying to fire the boxes at other robots to damage them (or at the crowd, etc.), you'll be fine. Even if some refs feel unsafe with the catapulting, you can always do other things with the robot instead of launching the boxes. However, I don't think you can fire anything else besides boxes.
Rickertsen2
06-01-2003, 22:51
i thought we can only use the tubing to launch the boxes
Winged Globe
06-01-2003, 23:26
There's also the chance the crashing boxes will break, and I don't think broken boxes help you to build stacks or count towards your score. I'm not so sure about the latter, though.
Mike537Strategy
07-01-2003, 09:34
The boxes won't break too easily if all they're doing is flying through the air. And if you're in the opponent's zone, all you really need to do is be able to launch it to maybe the middle of the opposite ramp to get it to your side. Any further and they'd probably bounce to the gray zone!
pauluffel
07-01-2003, 17:49
I really want to make a launching robot this year, and a few parts about it that I like that haven't been mentioned...
You could chill in your zone defending your tall stack, and right near the end of the match you could launch one into your oponent"s stack and knock it over (you can defend a stack on the ground, but not in the air)
If you placed your human boxes correctly you could have your robot pick it up and knock down the wall with it before the other robots had even reached the ramp.
You could launch them at the opposing alliances drivers (not G.P., but it"s probably rather hard to compete when crates keep crashing into the plexiglass in front of you)
And an impossible little fantasy that would never happy but would be really cool: If you could stay in your opponent"s scoring zone and launch their crates onto the crates in your zone (making stacks from 20 feet away.)
Caroline
07-01-2003, 18:09
The boxes will sometimes break if you launch them, but FIRST may attribute that to wear and tear. I would ask them this question for a definite answer.
nuggetsyl
07-01-2003, 20:42
our team was thing about launching boxes but we came to he determination that it is tooo much time wasted on one point.
Alex Forest
07-01-2003, 20:48
Trust me, when you start practicing this, coming up with prototypes, etc. be VERY careful with that tubing. Like, make sure it is held on to VERY tightly. Trust me. Seriously.
*holding ice to forehead*
you finally got some ice? does it really help 6 hours later :D
Will using a pneumatic or a motor attached to a lever arm give enough speed and power to launch a box?
Ben Mitchell
08-01-2003, 06:09
As far as launching goes, our team saw a lot of possibilities with this one,
Consider:
Launching the box from the enemy zone to yours
Launching a box to knock down an enemy stack
Launching a box to knock down the middle pillars
Pneumatic pistons might be a good bet for a launcher, the large bore cylinders have a lot of "umph" (which is based on stroke size as well as bore radius)
also the right motor will me able to throw the boxes and then u can control the speed which will also contorl the distance. jus make sure its fast and powerful
Jon
even tho the box probably would not break...chances are the lid may come off...and the rules specify that you cannot remove lids...i assume since it was you that launched the box, it would also be you for removing the lid...
question: what if two robots are on opposite ends of the container, pushing towards eachother...chances are the lid might pop off..what then ?
thanks
i have thrown the boxes at walls the tops have yet to come off so i dont think it is goin to easily come off.
thats a good question, both teams would prob. be penalized or it would be up to the judges. just a guess
Jon
Mike537Strategy
08-01-2003, 13:07
Does no one remember that during the competitions the box lids will be bolted on with those special bolt things? I think that'll pretty much prevent the whole lid from coming off.
D.J. Fluck
08-01-2003, 13:11
Originally posted by Mike537Strategy
Does no one remember that during the competitions the box lids will be bolted on with those special bolt things? I think that'll pretty much prevent the whole lid from coming off.
Even with the rivets on the lids, it will only hold for so long.
Damian Manda
08-01-2003, 17:09
DA1 A referee may disable a robot that has damaged the playing field, barriers, containers or
another robot, if the referee feels that further damage is likely to occur.
If you are launching containers and one gets broken, the referee may use this rule, because if one broke from launching another might break later.
S10: The storage containers are the only projectiles that may be launched by a robot.
DA1: A referee may disable a robot that has damaged the playing field, barriers, containers or
another robot, if the referee feels that further damage is likely to occur. The referees may
require a corrective action, such as eliminating a sharp edge, before the robot will be
allowed to compete in subsequent matches.
The manual explicitly states that it is legal for a robot to launch containers. The lids are rivited shut, and should therefore not come off.
You can launch the container so long as the launch itself does not damage the container. If the subsequent impact damages the container it is the robot that has damaged the containers. This would therefor be legal.
D.J. Fluck
08-01-2003, 19:50
Originally posted by Noah
The manual explicitly states that it is legal for a robot to launch containers. The lids are rivited shut, and should therefore not come off.
Still, the rivets WILL break off eventually if the main part of the box survives the torture of the game
I don't see launching boxes as an effective strategy, it doesn't seem like with the weight you could launch one fast/far enough to make a difference.
Ianworld
10-01-2003, 00:14
I've calculated the physics for it. There are multiple ways of getting the speed needed. A 12 inch pneumatic with a 2 inch bore is easily enough to launch them 15 feet. My physics(well natures but hmph) called for a 1 foot arc that applies 90 pounds of force to the throwing arm in .06 seconds. My robot design uses a slightly different design but the physics works out that even a 6 inch in length pneumatic would provide more than twice the power needed to throw a crate 30 feet. I added in a feature that while you swing the crate(s) you extend your throwing mechanism. That lowers the force requried to get the speed up. Also using the battery to act as a counter weight on a seesaw like device was also thought of. I don't know if the first judges would allow that idea though. (using a 1 foot bar with the 20 pound battery allows you only need to use a 6 inch pneumatic witha 3/4 inch bore)
*as a note my entire team is against throwing in the autonomous period. We are sure that if we throw a crate the wrong way and it goes into the crowd bad things will come from the refs. very bad things. I guess testing would be in order for that ^_^
Originally posted by jmo8605
just make sure its fast and powerful
Jon
yeah i think thats basically the idea behind all of our robots its sometimes easier said then done
Da Moose!
10-01-2003, 04:58
i would LOVE to see a barrage of boxes flying everywhere, but it might not be a barrage, but i would just love to see some boxes flying:D no matter what the outcome, just as long as nobody gets hurt. i would have liked to has tossed boxes, but we have decided against it. :( :(
MRL180YTL2002
10-01-2003, 10:40
read rule 9.1. S10 in the Competion rules I believe states "The storage containers are the only projectiles that may be launched by a robot" therefore it comes down to whether the referees with disqualify you...like if a box gets launched into the crowd or causes damage to the field. The CIM motors if you looked last year a Woody's ball launchers has the power as do the Fisher Price and Bosuch Drill Motors have the power. This also conflicts with the drivetrain....we're already considered two penumatic clyinders for the drivetrains as well as the optical sensors, the CIM motors, and the drill motors.
About using pnuematic launchers, remember that big cylinders use a lot of your pressure. If you plan on launching boxes one of your main goals, you want to do it more than once every 30 seconds. You're better off just using a motor with an arm on a pivot or something like that.
MRL180YTL2002
15-01-2003, 21:09
and the pump weighs like 4 pounds give or take a few ounces.
Quentinfool
17-01-2003, 11:55
It was clear in the rules that you can throw boxes HOWEVER you can only use the 5ft long latex tubing included in the kit to launch any boxes. (using elastic potential energy)
NO PNEUMATICS
and 2nd, the boxes arn't going to break from throwing them. I'm gonna say 1 or 2 of lids may come off but they ccould add extra rivets to the boxes at nationals.
i dont know how much energy you can get from that tubing but I dont see boxes flying too far.
yeah the crates aren't that areodynamic, but I can see this being very usefull in being on top of the ramp and have the machine lauch the crate on powerdown.
Don Wright
17-01-2003, 13:05
NO PNEUMATICS
Just curious to how you came about this conclusion?
Rule S10
Rule K10
They just say that if springs are used to launch a container, it can only be the latex tubing. Nothing about no pneumatics.
Anarkissed
17-01-2003, 13:07
if you use all the tubing they give you, it gives you so much power you wouldn't believe it....
http://www.lightningrobotics.com/software/uploads/upload2cd.jpg
the throwing potential is just crazy
MRL180YTL2002
17-01-2003, 17:07
some of the motors too if you don't want the compressor to work overtime.
Originally posted by MRL180YTL2002
some of the motors too if you don't want the compressor to work overtime.
If you're going to post quite so much, can you at least make an effort toward making sense? ...or quoting what you're replying to...or something?
Please?
K, thx.
OneAngryDaisy
17-01-2003, 19:05
Just remember that if you throw it, it has to land in your scoring zone... I can see boxes flying over to the gray area, or bouncing out of the scoring zone- Good luck orientating all of that power
MRL180YTL2002
17-01-2003, 20:09
Originally posted by M. Krass
If you're going to post quite so much, can you at least make an effort toward making sense? ...or quoting what you're replying to...or something?
Please?
K, thx.
So sorry, my computer has been acting up. The throwing potential is awesome.......that's what I was responding to. The point is with peumatics, you need to charge the cummulators using the compressor. THe clyinders would be great to stretch out the surgical tubing and use it like a sling shot, motors/penumatic cylinders to throw the boxes like in a catapult or some other seige engine. But its also could be potentially lethal and boxes could get damaged. But throwing bins, you maybe disqualified for damaging the playing field via throwing them.
Quentinfool
17-01-2003, 22:09
the rule says you can ONLY use the latex tubing. so doesnt that exclude pnematics and motors?
the robot rules
K10 If “springs” are used for launching the containers, only latex tubing that is the same
as the tubing in the kit, i.e., 1/4” ID and 3/8” OD by 5 feet maximum in length may
be used. See Rule S10 in the Game section of the Manual.
S10 The storage containers are the only projectiles that may be launched by a robot.
hmm maybe it doesnt. i coulda swore i saw something that only allowed latex tubing.
its a good forumn question
MRL180YTL2002
18-01-2003, 23:44
The latex (sugrical) tubing is like a spring. But you need someway of stretching it out to use the energy you can accumulate (I'm not to sure about the actual engineering terms so if an engineer sees this help!) it to use it later when you release the tubing. This can be done with motors, servos, and possibly penumatic clyinders......how exactly I don't really know. I haven't really had much experience working with. (Mr. Dillard, that was on your finger design for last year...but I really don't remember the details)
Mike537Strategy
19-01-2003, 02:06
TREBUCHET!
MRL180YTL2002
19-01-2003, 20:37
You got that one right!
Quentinfool
19-01-2003, 22:16
I always waned to build a trebuchet
ever since i saw them making them on nova.
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