You can't see through an untouched starting wall of boxes [Archive]

Digo

06-01-2003, 21:54

-> Tell me if this was already discussed, cause I SEARCHED and didn't find it. <-

Your robot starts the game on the "enemy" field, and your driver is located in the opposite side ("your" side). Between them there is a big wall of boxes.

If none of the 4 robots manage to crash the wall in the 15 seconds, there will be some time of blind driving, because the drivers won't be able to see their robots.
I think that may happen sometimes, but it probably won't be a usual thing.

If that happens, the robots may crash with their partners, and they may loose a lot of precious time too. Maybe putting the wall down isn't good only to score points...

Another thing: the ramp is really big this year, isn't it? Is it allowed for a short driver to take something to stay on top of to the station? <edit> Already answered by Pengiun Joe (thanks!)</edit>

Digo

Pengiun Joe

06-01-2003, 22:02

That's an interesting problem, with the containers. While I think you're right, they probably will be knocked down, the ramp will prove to be a sight obstacle for everyone. If not being able to see your own robot wasn't enough, keeping an eye on the other guy will be even harder. As to your question: rule GM13 states that: "During a match, students and mentors must stand on the carpet, i.e., they may not stand on containers, the driver station shelf or any part of the field structure or on each other." So no, you've got to stay on the carpet. No height advantage.

Rich Wong

06-01-2003, 22:13

I love this game!

Woodie and Dean did not disappoint me this year.

They promise something for everyone and they delivered.
The scoring is simple but the game is complex.

You can build a gocart robot in 6 hours and be competitive.
This is great for rookie teams. The programmers now
have a major role to play too.
The score keepers will be pulling their hair out because
of the crazy combinations of prossible scores.
Can you imagine, the score keeper screams at the
driver to knock down the stacks.

And my favorite part of the game...

the crashing sound of plastic container!
:D :D :D

DanLevin247

06-01-2003, 22:18

Since you can't see over the wall of containers no matter how tall you are at the start of the match, won't this pose a major problem? Lets say your robot ends up at a odd angle ( gets knocked into during the 15 seconds ) and you go to drive it when the humans get controll, only to have your robot smash into something and get stuck?

ChrisA

06-01-2003, 22:31

Well, then it looks like you better not let this happen.

vicepro

06-01-2003, 22:34

Do you think that maybe that's why the ramps are wire MESH. You can see through it.

Doug

06-01-2003, 22:37

if your robot was about to commit autonomous suicide there is always the disable button or you could have a self righter like ,dare i say, in battle bots gasp!

tatsak42

06-01-2003, 22:40

Well, maybe you were joking abotu the self-righting, but I don't think very many robots will flip in the first place... (speed and catch air on the ramp! w00t!)

And is the ramp tall enough to be able to see though under it? Either way, there's viewing obstacles. But at least there's the 15 seconds autonomous where you can be somewhat sure that it'll do what you want, instead of randomly driving without vision. :D

Rickertsen2

06-01-2003, 22:46

the first thing out robot will do in the auto mode is head straight for the boxes. CRASH!!!

Gadget470

06-01-2003, 22:55

Originally posted by vicepro
Do you think that maybe that's why the ramps are wire MESH. You can see through it.

That's not why the ramp is mesh. The mesh creates a very interesting obstacle. However, you cannot see your bot through the mesh. Keep not at the different heights.

The driver's table is rougly 3' - 3'6" high. Most driver's eyes are at about 5' - 6' high. The ramp's center platform is 2' high. Even if they crouch down, they are not going to be able to see through and to the otherside without a mirror being on the floor (which there won't be)

Bduggan04

06-01-2003, 23:01

Put tall flags on your robot.

Aaron Lussier

06-01-2003, 23:21

FIRST says we can put video cameras on our robot why not that?

Rule M9

Bduggan04

06-01-2003, 23:23

Originally posted by The wheelman
FIRST says we can put video cameras on our robot why not that?

Rule M9

It wouldn't help the drivers any because their controls must run off of the power supplied through the competition port. That's not enough to power a TV or a reciever. The team members off of the field would have a good view though.

Aaron Lussier

06-01-2003, 23:25

Originally posted by Bduggan04
It wouldn't help the drivers any because their controls must run off of the power supplied through the competition port. That's not enough to power a TV or a reciever. The team members off of the field would have a good view though.

Then why not have someone in the crowd with big signs that said: LEFT, RIGHT, FORWARD, BACK, RAMMING SPEED, GRAB

DanL

06-01-2003, 23:50

Originally posted by tatsak42
Well, maybe you were joking abotu the self-righting, but I don't think very many robots will flip in the first place... (speed and catch air on the ramp! w00t!)

I'm not so sure about that... the ramp requires speed, and lots of teams will definately make tall 'stacker' bots... I think there's a good chance for falling over.

Ian W.

06-01-2003, 23:56

teams will tip. that's almost fact. hopefully, after the first match or two, they won't tip anymore. you can't promise anything though. one idea to see your robot is some tall flags. that would involve, GASP, a tape measure device, or something similar to run straight up with a stiff flag to tell direction. it's doable, and very possible. hopefully, at least one team will take out the bins though.

HolyMasamune

07-01-2003, 00:02

About the video cameras on our robots, I think I read somewhere that you can have laptops in the driver's area (though I highly doubt its authenticity). Can anyone confirm or disprove this? So if this is the case, you can see even with a wall of tubs blocking the middle. Plus you can always see through the sides where there isn't a ramp.

Teedoff101

07-01-2003, 00:17

A tip for building a tall stack bot: If u dont want to get tipped over, build the bot with a very low center of gravity, this way when u go up the ramp u wont tip, even if u get bumped by another bot. Yeah, the stacks are a problem if no one knocks them down in autonomous mode. A recommendation I would make is to have your team's programmers program at least 3 autonomous prgms so that u can do what your alliance parnter cant. THis way there is no possibility of not knocking down the stacks.

Nate Smith

07-01-2003, 00:26

Originally posted by HolyMasamune
About the video cameras on our robots, I think I read somewhere that you can have laptops in the driver's area (though I highly doubt its authenticity). Can anyone confirm or disprove this? So if this is the case, you can see even with a wall of tubs blocking the middle. Plus you can always see through the sides where there isn't a ramp.

Per the rules:

YES, you can have a laptop at the driver station for a dashboard application...

However...

FIRST's ruling every year re. cameras is that the reciever is NOT allowed to be in the driver station...

Accie470

07-01-2003, 08:56

I think FIRST intentionally made it so you couldn't see your robot at the begining of the game to make it more interesting and more of a challenge. using a camera would still be a bit of a challenge to the driver but kinda defeats the purpose.

Digo

07-01-2003, 11:29

Video Cameras:
From last years rules I know you can put ANYTHING on your robot since it is not functional, I mean, if it won't help you with the game, like sound speakers or decorative things of any material. So you may put a camera on it, but the driver may not see the image, because that would help him to drive and then the camera and the receiver would have to be "legal" components to be functional things.

Originally posted by Accie470
I think FIRST intentionally made it so you couldn't see your robot at the begining of the game to make it more interesting and more of a challenge. (...)

I agree. I think the visual barrier is one of the big features of this year's game.

Andy Grady

07-01-2003, 11:50

All I gotta say, is if after 15 seconds no one has knocked down the wall, things are gonna be very fun to watch in that match!

Have I mentioned that I love this game?

Good Luck All,
Andy Grady

1337 /\/\4573|2

07-01-2003, 14:04

I would say that the reason for the autonomous 15 seonds is that you wont be able to see your robot. So an easy solution is to make your robot get into a visible area in that time period.

DanL

07-01-2003, 16:43

Originally posted by Accie470
I think FIRST intentionally made it so you couldn't see your robot at the begining of the game to make it more interesting and more of a challenge. using a camera would still be a bit of a challenge to the driver but kinda defeats the purpose.

Yeah, in the design-the-game thread, I do believe there was a small conversation about having the auto mode behind a visual barrier. If my memory serves me right, we were talking about perhaps going into some kind of tunnel-thing in which the robot would switch into auto. This is almost like that.

D. Gregory

10-01-2003, 03:16

Is there a rule against have a stool in the driver's booth? Also, can Yao Ming please contact the Unionville H.S. Wolfpack re: spotter.

Gadget470

10-01-2003, 06:43

Originally posted by D. Gregory
Is there a rule against have a stool in the driver's booth? Also, can Yao Ming please contact the Unionville H.S. Wolfpack re: spotter.

GM6 Special clothing and/or equipment will only be allowed on the playing field for those who demonstrate a need based on a physical disability.

MacZealot

10-01-2003, 16:04

I suppose this is why autonomous mode is the basis of winning/loosing the match.

You could get your teammates to hold up a huge mirror lol.

*shrug* really, just have the bot go all the way out to the edge of the field, turn around, face straight at the ramp, go full speed, and knock that stack of boxes down mercilessly.

:]

Bot @ full speed colliding against boxes? sounds good.. you wouldn't have to worry about hitting the other bot as the air you'd gain would probably allow you to go waaaaaaaaay over.

Unfortunately, my team doesn't like this, they want to follow the line diligently *sarcastic*

I can't wait to see the disaster. 4 bots following the line, in the begining the alliances crash against each other because the lines are too near, and then there's ramp collisions.

Interesting!

Noah

10-01-2003, 16:13

This is going to be soooo much fun... ::tears:: I'm so happy I'm crying!

Bill Beatty

11-01-2003, 01:22

Two early observations.

1. How well the driver in the inside position can see through the wall. The outside driver cannot see a thing.

2. When a bulldozer type robot pushes a bin on it's side bottom first on the ramp. Wow! What a racket! The edge of the lid grabs the mesh and jumps along it. It is going to be very tough on the bins.