Team Update #1 is out [Archive]

authgeek1218

07-01-2003, 20:01

It possibly hinders a team from stacking on top of that. That is, if they have a stacking bot that is incapable of either picking something up upside-down or turning something upside-down.

I did think it funny when he said that they were rounded up... 'He' being the funny skinny guy who did mostly all the talking at the unveiling. His name escapes me at the moment.

Morgan Jones

07-01-2003, 20:06

I don't think they ever said the SHU's were rounded up. If I remember correctly, they said that by turning a box upside down, it is enough to raise the stack height into the next unit on the measuring pole.

Suneet

07-01-2003, 20:07

You mean Woodie Flowers. Here's a bio: http://www.usfirst.org/about/bio_flowers.htm

Ben Mitchell

07-01-2003, 20:19

At the kickoff, I assumed that it was rounded up, considering that Woody went through that whole deal with the measuring stick.

Now that it is rounded down, teams can't get a free 2x multiplier by flipping a crate.

Darn. :(

Curtis Williams

07-01-2003, 21:54

Well they had an upside-down on top in the 4mb video they put out, it didn't round up. If they rounded up, that also means a single bin (15-3/4) would be worth 2 SHUs (which are 14-3/4).

HolyMasamune

07-01-2003, 22:54

Unfortunately, they didn't answer many of the questions that we wanted them to answer. All we can do is wait then for the next update... :/

p373R L1a0

07-01-2003, 22:55

i remember that during the kickoff with woodie and the measure stick and what not... that he said specifically that any bin that crossed into the scoring height of the next bin counts as achieving the height into which it crossed. Therefore 1 box flipped on its side= 2x multiplier. we were kinda counting on that as a free way to double our score but guess its out of the picture now...:mad:

Madison

07-01-2003, 23:00

Didn't it always round down?

That is, assuming that you can't have a stack of zero whilst there are bins in your scoring zone.

<14.75" = 1
14.75"-29.50" = 2
29.50"-44.25" = 3
etc.

So, a bin tipped on its short side is >14.75" tall; potentially 2.148578379 SHUs tall. Rounded down, that's 2.

I don't see this as being a change.

p373R L1a0

07-01-2003, 23:05

Krass, thats the problem. a box tipped on its side doesnt count as two anymore. its rounded DOWN to 1. therefore one box (no matter how u tip it) is one box, one "stack" high NO.MATTER.WHAT.

sanddrag

07-01-2003, 23:06

the way they are measured is on the stick. the stick goes like this:

/ \
|
=4
|
|
=3
|
|
=2
| \--------/
| | 1Shu |
=1 \____/

/ \
|
=4
|
|
=3
|
|
=2 \ -----\
| | 2 |
| | Shu|
=1 /-----/

as you can see by my crude drawing note that any bin upright will always count as one since there is no zero on the meter. when tipped a certain way it will round down to count for 2. that should clear anything up.

1 SHU = 14 3/4 inches. 1 bin in standard position by itself is 15 3/4 high. So according to the SHU stick starting with 1, a bin would be above the 2 mark already.

Will someone clarify all of this really simply please?

Funny

07-01-2003, 23:12

Basically, a bin all by itself, in any rotation, is counted as a multiplier of one. Basically, a stack will essentially be counted by the number of bins in it, no matter if they are nested or not.

So, if you have a bin that is like 1.1 SHUs, it is just counted as 1 for a multiplier. Same if the bin is 1.9 SHUs.

Joe Ross

07-01-2003, 23:15

Originally posted by M. Krass
That is, assuming that you can't have a stack of zero whilst there are bins in your scoring zone.

<14.75" = 1
14.75"-29.50" = 2
29.50"-44.25" = 3
etc.

saying that

<14.75" = 0
14.75"-29.50" = 1
29.50"-44.25" = 2
etc.

also means that you can't have a stack of 0, becasue there is no orientation of a box (except broken) that is less then 14.75"

sanddrag

07-01-2003, 23:20

Originally posted by Joe Ross
saying that

<14.75" = 0
14.75"-29.50" = 1
29.50"-44.25" = 2
etc.

also means that you can't have a stack of 0, becasue there is no orientation of a box (except broken) that is less then 14.75"

:D I never knew broken was a kind of orientation.

Down to business here, all we really need confirmed is if the SHU measuring stick starts with 0 SHU or 1 SHU

Funny

07-01-2003, 23:27

Simply out, Joe must be right. If a box in normal upright orientation was two SHUs, the whole system would collapse...

and my head would explode and the world would end... well maybe not that last part. :p

p373R L1a0

07-01-2003, 23:28

I think what originally was said during the kickoff that it is like this

||
||
||
=2
||
||
||
=1 |==== |<<-Bin on side extends into the 2 scoring ||\=====/ | | zone, hence it counts for 2
|| \ / | |
|| \___/ |_____|

However, now the rules have changed so it rounds DOWN. in the team update this is underlined in bold. its my own intuition, so i would say that it indicates an important change. who knows, sanddrag may be right

p373R L1a0

07-01-2003, 23:32

I think what originally was said during the kickoff that it is like this

||
||
||
=2
||
||
||
=1 |==== |<<-Bin on side extends into the 2 scoring
||\=====/ |--------| zone, hence it counts for 2
|| \-------/ |--------|
|| \___/ |_____|

However, now the rules have changed so it rounds DOWN. in the team update this is underlined in bold. its my own intuition, so i would say that it indicates an important change. who knows, sanddrag may be right

SOrry.. other one was messed up

seisenberg

07-01-2003, 23:34

Unless they had a total about-face, the bottom of the stick starts at 1.
That way, a normal right side up bin reaches to just below the "2" line, a tipped bin scores 2.2, rounded to 2 as per Team Update #1, and everthing is as Woody said.

Otherwise they're nuts

p373R L1a0

07-01-2003, 23:45

obviously here, the debate is over whether or not the measuring stick starts at zero or one. im not sure, and i dont have a tape of the kickoff with me :( . in the team update, it was underlined in bold (signifying a change?), so i donno :/

Teedoff101

07-01-2003, 23:49

Here's how it works as Woody said it. The stick starts out at 0'. When u put the first bin in the normal position it counts as one. If the second bin (or any number higher than that) is place upside down, that would go over the next line and what would've been a multiplier of 2 (using this example. could be any amount of boxes) is now a multiplier of 3. In the update, it states that if a box is placed upside down it wont affect the multiplier because it has been rounded down. So 2 boxes (1 face up, 1 face down) counts as a multiplier of 2, not 3. Woody's way was to round up if any part of the box was above the nearest hash mark on the measuring stick. I hope this clears things up. All the update does is make the scoring the opposite way that Woody said. No more is there the strategy of placing the boxes upside down and getting a 1 higher multiplier. Teams, rethink your strategies!

Gadget470

07-01-2003, 23:54

You keep saying you are unsure if there was a change to the rule...

There Was!

Read the original rules, then read the update. The SHU height has been lowered by 1" and the system now rounds down.

5
------------------------
4
------------------------
3
------------------------
2
------------------------
1
------------------------

sanddrag

08-01-2003, 00:01

Originally posted by Gadget470
You keep saying you are unsure if there was a change to the rule...

There Was!

Read the original rules, then read the update. The SHU height has been lowered by 1" and the system now rounds down.

5
------------------------
4
------------------------
3
------------------------
2
------------------------
1
------------------------

Gadget, you left out the zero level. It should look like this

5------
4------
3------
2------
1------
0------ <<floor level

The height of one bin in standard position would be one inch above 1 SHU.

Aidan F. Browne

08-01-2003, 00:04

Like everyone else, I thought I heard Woody say that a turned up crate got you an extra SHU....

But now that I think about it, did he ever actually say that it scored the extra SHU? Or, was it more like "Notice that a crate on its side moves you into the next SHU".

Maybe his point was that if you stack enough crates on their sides (or ends), then you can eventually gain an extra SHU (I'm not bothing to do any calculation right now, so I don't know the right number)...

Just seems like the kind of challenge Woody would tend to throw out there.

Just my two cents...

Aidan
:)

sanddrag

08-01-2003, 00:10

Originally posted by Aidan F. Browne
Maybe his point was that if you stack enough crates on their sides (or ends), then you can eventually gain an extra SHU (I'm not bothing to do any calculation right now, so I don't know the right number)...

That is correct according to the stick starting at 0 SHUs at floor level and rounding down. I believe Woody's explanation was wrong. (note 1 SHU =14.75" and 1 bin in standard position is 15.75" tall. 1 SHU = the height of a nested bin)

rees2001

08-01-2003, 00:42

Here's my midnight math...
1 bin = 1 SHU = cannot extend into 2nd SHU
1 bin turned on end = does extend into 2nd SHU = 2 SHU's = 2.25 bins high
2 bins stacked neatly = 2 SHU's = Does not extend into 3rd SHU
2 bins top to bottom or WHATEVER = extends into 3rd SHU = 3.145 bins high = 3 SHU's
PLEASE Round 3.145 down..... I get 3 not 2

A glass even marginally, filled is a glass.

This is the way woodie explained at kickoff

NOW... (direct from the update)
Its height is measured in whole Stack Height Units (SHU) as described previously in Section 7.6. WHOLE SHU's. Sounds like you have to fill the SHU.

ONLY a full glass, is a glass.

We took something that made sense to all of us & made it confusing.

sanddrag

08-01-2003, 00:47

Originally posted by rees2001
We took something that made sense to all of us & made it confusing. I don't think you're helping with the glasses.:D

Anywhoo, you talk about the SHU as if it were a space when I think it is only a mark, like on a ruler. :confused:

Funny

08-01-2003, 01:04

I think the glasses helped, but what ever. Heres the way its looking TO ME (I'm not saying its right).

1 box in normal position=~1.08 SHU=multiplier is rounded down to one
1 box at the tallest it can get=~1.2 SHU=multiplier is again 1
2 boxes nested=~2.08 SHU=multiplier is 2
2 boxes at the tallest you can make them=~2.4 SHU=multiplier is still two

Basically, (again this is just my opinion) youd have to have some intense stacking skills to have your multiplier not be the number of bins in the stack.

EDIT: Fixed the typo pointed out below.

sanddrag

08-01-2003, 01:38

Originally posted by Funny
I think the glasses helped, but what ever. Heres the way its looking TO ME (I'm not saying its right).

1 box in normal position=~1.08 SHU=multiplier is rounded down to one
1 box at the tallest it can get=~1.2 SHU=multiplier is again 1
2 boxes nested=~2.08 SHU=multiplier is 2
2 boxes at the tallest you can make them=~2.4 SHU=multiplier is still one

Basically, (again this is just my opinion) youd have to have some intense stacking skills to have your multiplier not be the number of bins in the stack.
Your midnight math seems to work. That looks right to me. But you mean to say 2.4 SHU=multiplier is still two right?

Aidan F. Browne

08-01-2003, 07:55

Folks,

Check out Dave Lavery's reply in this thread (note that he has two posts in the thread):

Dave Lavery Response (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16086)

It confirms that one box is one box is one box.

Aidan
:)

P.S. -- If this wasn't the case, y=ax^2 + bx + c wouldn't hold true anymore!