drill motor specs [Archive]

Jon Lawton

09-01-2003, 16:44

I called S-B Power Tool today, and the woman told me that the specs were posted on the FIRST web page today. I assume that means we will see them in today's update (Update #2). She was very helpful and knew what I was talking about as soon as I said I was on a FIRST team!

I called the New Jersey office, as Andy Baker posted (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=115525#post115525) .

Hendrix

09-01-2003, 17:33

For those that didnt see this on the parts list...

Drill motors: 19670 RPM
Drill motors (with gearbox in low): 461.52 RPM
Drill motors (with gearbox in high): 1629.66 RPM

maxgebhardt

09-01-2003, 22:30

I've checked all the sites, and I'm pretty sure that these drill moters by S-B are Skil - Bosch, so I beleve they should not be too much different than last years specs, and if someone could confirm that would be nice as well.

sanddrag

09-01-2003, 22:36

Originally posted by Hendrix
For those that didnt see this on the parts list...

Drill motors: 19670 RPM
Drill motors (with gearbox in low): 461.52 RPM
Drill motors (with gearbox in high): 1629.66 RPM

That is assuming 100% Gearbox effieciency! I would think this year's trannies have less efficiency than last year's because of the 2 added planetary gears to each set.

Madison

09-01-2003, 22:59

Originally posted by maxgebhardt
I've checked all the sites, and I'm pretty sure that these drill moters by S-B are Skil - Bosch, so I beleve they should not be too much different than last years specs, and if someone could confirm that would be nice as well.

These drill motors are different. Much different. Last year's specs aren't a good indicator of what they can do, really, as they may be twice as powerful.

The RPM is nice information, but what we really need to see is the stall torque and current. Without that, we can't really do much.

The gearboxes are more efficient.

(That's information I've gathered from the myriad other threads about this.)

Elgin Clock

10-01-2003, 12:12

One more little thing about this year's drill motors, they have lots of pieces!! And they are a pain in the butt to put back together right. Too many interlocking gears and pins and ways to line stuff up right.

I wouldn't suggest anybody take these suckers apart unless you know EXACTLY how they work and how to put them back together.

crazycliffy

10-01-2003, 15:13

From Update #2,
" You can not use last year's 3/8" drill motor/ gearbox as we have provided a 1/2 " motor/gearbox this year"

Anyone get the newest specs for this years drill motors?

dlavery

10-01-2003, 15:24

Check the technical section of the White Papers (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/papers.php?s=&categoryid=2&perpage=10&direction=DESC&sort=date) for a photo walk-through of taking the Bosch 3360 Gearbox apart. To reassemble, just reverse the procedure. As you will see, these gearboxes are substantially different (and beefier!) than the prior versions.

-dave

----------------------

Y = AX^ 2 + B... ehhhh, whatever.

Elgin Clock

10-01-2003, 16:43

Originally posted by dlavery
Check the technical section of the White Papers (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/papers.php?s=&categoryid=2&perpage=10&direction=DESC&sort=date) for a photo walk-through of taking the Bosch 3360 Gearbox apart. To reassemble, just reverse the procedure. As you will see, these gearboxes are substantially different (and beefier!) than the prior versions.

-dave

----------------------

Y = AX^ 2 + B... ehhhh, whatever.

Yeah, That would have been really helpful YESTERDAY when the darn thing came apart in my hands, and we had to waste 20-30 minutes trying to reassemble them.

maxgebhardt

10-01-2003, 16:46

Anyone have any clue when team update #3 will show, Because #2 had no drill motor specs? I'd especially be appreciative if I got a time.

Hendrix

10-01-2003, 18:06

Originally posted by sanddrag
That is assuming 100% Gearbox effieciency! I would think this year's trannies have less efficiency than last year's because of the 2 added planetary gears to each set.

Well that is with specs we got this year

Jon Lawton

10-01-2003, 18:24

I called FIRST today, and asked when the motor spec sheets would be made available. I was told they are working to compile them and that they would "be available as soon as possible." I told them that S-B Power Tool told me yesterday that the specs were already on the FIRST web page, and I was told that they "might" be released in Update #3 (apparently they were not), but more likely they would be out sometime next week.

I called the New Jersey S-B Power Tool again, and was told once again that the spec sheets were already on the FIRST website, and that FIRST had told them to direct people to the FIRST website. They said that they could not give me anymore information, even when I told them the specs were not really on the web page.

Does anyone else find this extremely poor form on FIRST's end? For how long have they known what motors go into the kit? How could they leave out such a *VITAL* piece of information such as this? The FIRST administration seems to still leave a great deal to be desired.

maxgebhardt

10-01-2003, 18:34

arg! if anyone has any clue about the specs contribute it, seeing as we all need the drive trains finished soon, in my case Monday (originally), but without output data, I'm not sure I'll meet that deadline for my team. also, if anyone can clear up the figures given on sprockets by MSC, it would be appriciated seeing as I'm at a disadvatage with no engineer help this year.

Paul Copioli

10-01-2003, 20:41

I have compiled the data. Most of which is in the manual where the drill motor is listed, but I had to experimentally determine the free amps.

Look here:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/papers.php?s=&categoryid=9&perpage=10&direction=DESC&sort=date

You will find data for the Fisher-Price, Drill and Chiaphua. I am 100% sure about the Fisher-Price and Chiaphua, but 95% sure about the drill. From my initial test, the numbers look good.

The link is to the white papers section from a presentation I gave at the Novi Kickoff. I updated the motors with the new information. This should be enough for you to get working until FIRST gets their numbers together.

Please note that there is another white paper regarding the Fisher-Price motor that I posted. It is the motor manufacturers data sheet and it corresponds with my number in the presentation.

-Paul

maxgebhardt

10-01-2003, 23:18

thank you

Rickertsen2

12-01-2003, 20:58

a word of advice. if get the brilliant idea of hooking the drill motor and gearbox directly to the battery:yikes: , be sure u are holding both parts of the transmission. This tranny does not stay together well!!

gc02

12-01-2003, 21:38

The specs for Bosch 3360 drill, which is where I'm guessing this motor comes from, on the boschtools.com web site lists the drill as having a stall torque of 400 lb-in (45.3 N·m) and a no-load speed of 450 rpm in low gear. Doing a little math that gives it a stall current 185A at 12V and a peak power output of 527 watts. In high gear you'd get stall torque of 12.7 N·m and a no-load speed of 1598 rpm and with no gear box you'd get stall torque of 1.06 N·m and a no-load speed of 19170 rpm.

Greg
Enigma Industries (http://www.enigmaindustries.com)

ROB at RAGE

13-01-2003, 09:35

The motor stall torque is also in the parts list, this times the reduction ratio and assume the efficiencies are similar to the old transmissions, 80% in high and 70% in low. This will get you most of the way. Remember the torque of D.C. motors is linear between max at stall and 0 at free speed RPM.

DanielJay

14-01-2003, 17:46

has anybody gotten the specs from the manufacture? I must have missed the specs and I am looking all over for the specs from the manufacture. Can anybody help. Please attach the file to the forum and I will get back to it. Thanks.

KennethToronto

15-01-2003, 15:08

Drill motors: 19670 RPM
Drill motors (with gearbox in low): 461.52 RPM
Drill motors (with gearbox in high): 1629.66 RPM

So are these numbers correct? I've been checking out all the threads about the drill motors and these are the only numbers I've found.

gc02

15-01-2003, 16:29

First posted a bunch of specs today:

http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2003/specsheets.htm

Be careful though, the "drill motor" specs seem to be for two different motors. Was there more than one type of drill motor in the kit?

Greg Christensen
Enigma Industries (http://www.enigmaindustries.com)

maxgebhardt

15-01-2003, 19:37

I bow down to your superior ability to stand the first ability to not post things and hunt them down! now maybe I can actually get some work done! thank you!

rbayer

15-01-2003, 19:49

Did anyone else notice that the Drill Motor curve is for motors running at 11V? Any ideas on how a 12V setup would compare? I'm guessing it's almost identical, but then again, strange things happen when you up the voltage to motors.

Elgin Clock

15-01-2003, 21:22

Originally posted by gc02
First posted a bunch of specs today:

http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2003/specsheets.htm

Be careful though, the "drill motor" specs seem to be for two different motors. Was there more than one type of drill motor in the kit?

Greg Christensen
Enigma Industries (http://www.enigmaindustries.com)

Could it be that the specs are for Forward and Reverse?
Just a thought!

Matt Leese

16-01-2003, 08:35

I'm even more confused by the drill motor gear specs (assuming that's what they specify). From the looks of things, it specifies a 13 tooth gear at a 20 degree pressure angle. Now, I counted the number of teeth on the output gear of our motors. It was most definitely 15 teeth. I only counted one motor but I'll check out the other one tonight. Anyone know what's up with that?

Matt

gc02

16-01-2003, 09:42

Originally posted by Elgin Clock
Could it be that the specs are for Forward and Reverse?
Just a thought!

If you look at Skill Bosch Motor Curve (http://www2.usfirst.org/2003comp/Specs/S-B_Motor_Curve.pdf) the motor's part number is different from the part number listed in the kit of parts documentation.

Paul Copioli

16-01-2003, 09:52

The part number on the motor data curve IS the same number as printed on the motor. The FIRST manual is inaccurate. The raw numbers printed in the chart for 12V (lower left corner) checks out with what FIRST gave us and with what I noticed for free amps.

-Paul

Matt Leese

16-01-2003, 14:47

Alright, I figured out what the problem was. The original spec sheet for the drill motor pinion gear was wrong. FIRST updated the spec sheet several hours after they put up the spec sheets. It would've been helpful if they had put something on their web page about the change.

Anyway, the gear does have 15 teeth (I can count apparently) and is at a 20 degree pressure angle.

Matt