BEst IDEA evererer

[Balanor]

I was woundering if I am alllowed to take control of other robots with a freqency jammer and use anoughter controler to control it

[Joe Matt]

eerrr....

NO.

[Jeremy_Mc]

you know...yeah.




ok not really. that would be the cheapest strategy ever.




i would beat your entire team with the really big stick of gracious professionalism!!

:p

*jeremy

[Jeff Waegelin]

Ummm.... that doesn't sound too gracious or professional... though I will admit I thought of it before. Never gave it serious thought, but I did think of it.

[ChewyMasterFlex]

we actually have a team working on that...It's legal as long as you don't get caught, my ghettoriffic friend...

[n[ate]vw]

Originally posted by ChewyMasterFlex
...It's legal as long as you don't get caught...

I'll say...*major eye rollage*

[SlamminSammy]

C29

Custom Circuits may not:
-Interfere with the operation of other robots
-Directly affect any output devices on the robot, such as by providing power directly to a motor, supplying a PWM signal to a speed controller or supplying a control signal to the relay module. (High impedance voltages monitoring inputs or low impedance current monitoring inputs on the custom circuits connected to the robot outputs are acceptable, because the effect on the robot outputs should be inconsequential.)
-Be used for wireless communication, such as sending or receiving a signal to and/or from the alliance station.
-Connect to the programming, radio or tether ports on the Robot Controller.

[Cory]

Originally posted by Balanor
I was woundering if I am alllowed to take control of other robots with a freqency jammer and use anoughter controler to control it

I can't believe you even suggested that...I seriously hope you were joking...


Cory

[activemx]

yet another usless thread

[HolyMasamune]

Instead of posting the worst idea ever, think of ways to improve the robot :)

[Gadget470]

instead of ressuructing dead threads, build a robot =)

My two cents: Yes i'm sure it is feasible to do, illegal, but feasible. Wouldn't be the first time someone has gotten away with something illegal, but the large majority of illegal parts have been unintentional. If you know it's illegal, don't make it.

[Evildoughgrl334]

This is an idea that every team has joked bout, but i doubt anyone has tried, from ur team # it looks like your a rookie team and my suggestion is not do to something this stupid.

[Adam Y.]

Does anyone notice that this is posted in the rumor mill??? I think he is kidding.:)

[Yan Wang]

Of course he's joking...

but hey, if you want, I can send you schematics for a frequency jammer... costs less than $5 to get the parts and all you have to do is adjust a screw to block out a certain frequency. Very fun in big cities in hotels where TV is accessed by satellites (here in Ithaca we pay for even the lowest level cable).

[Ianworld]

I think it would be graciously profesional. I mean then the other team wouldn't have to worry about working together to get the maximum score possible. It would all be run by one alliance and thus no pushing down stacks, no competiting for the bridge... The other alliance could do something nice, like sleep, or read a book. Why should they have to drive their robot!!!

[Jim Giacchi]

Im not even sure this work the way intended. From my understanding all the robots transmit on the same frequency. It has some kind of mad crazy way of figuring out which parts being broadcast on the frequency are for it. So if i am right (which i think i am but im not 100%) if you jammed the frequency one team was on you would be jamming your own as well.

[OneAngryDaisy]

You could actually use a normal walkie-talkie to try to screw up the robots- there were some problems with this at some competitions I went to last year..

[Timinator]

Well, don't tell anyone, but my plan for autonomous mode involves a radio modem and a laptop.... I'll be hiding in another room while someone sits in the bleachers with a video camera :)

[HUMMERIC]

while everyone else says no.... I think that you are privileged to do whatever you want (in your own little world that is)

[Jrmc]

i cannot believe anyone would even entertain the idea (of a jammer) in the open, its something that might be fun to work with friends, however, its soo anti-FIRST that i would personally be embarrassed to air the idea in public.

[Etbitmydog]

Way back when, when there were such things as "floppies" in FIRST(98), out alliance robot's (312) signal got jammed during the Kennedy Space Center regional. We were about to win that match but their robot started to do some suspicious things and their drivers lost partial control of their robot right when it was about to get ontop of the puck and multiply our score enough to get a win. When they tried to get on the puck their robot started moving in directions they didn't direct it to. Anyways, chances are (if it wasn't just a walkie talkie being turned on at inopportune time TWICE! because same thing happened in the exact situation during two matches) that somebody may have found out a way to screw with the signal. Radio controlled devices have been known to make our robots do weird things sometimes but if it's done it's always unintentional. I hope like the rest of the people said above me, that you're joking. People work hard to put out a working robot and for somebody to try to take away everything they've earned is wrong and against FIRST.

[Elgin Clock]

This idea is as good as the question posed to the FIRST message boards last year that asked a question like "Are we allowed to build into our robot a big retractable wall that unfolds and blocks our opponent's view??"

[Mike Bobak]

I hate to deviate from the topic but I was wondering if it was possible to have a radio intercept a transmission from a cell phone and cause some sort of malfunction? During some of our matches we experienced our robot straying to the right. We have had a lot of problems with our drill motors being synchronized due to the fact that one is in the forward position and the other one is in the reserve position. So, to get an idea of this works... if we want to go forward we have one motor going forward and the other going reverse yet the robot will go forward. Well, I being the only programmer on the team and without having a mentor on the team who knows anything about programming I figured I must have a error in the code. So, I played with numbers and thought I had a working drive system. I tested with our tether and it worked fine. Our next match roles up and we have the same problem! Our whole team concluded that the problem has to be either a) cell phone interference had to be disrupting packets being sent to the radio on the robot, or b) my numbers are still off and I need to fix the code some more. So, I guess my question is has this happen to anyone else? I seriously now think after having 90 minutes to think about this during English class that it's my numbers and that one motor is going faster than the other when I go above or below 127. But, I won't dismiss the idea of cell phone interference. So, I guess, any input would be great.

[evulish]

I don't know a whole bunch on this topic...but here are my thoughts. If it was cell-phone interference (which I really doubt it is...), I'd think it would have more sporadic movement than just making your robot go to the right a bit. I remember at Ramp Riot, there was interference (from other controllers) and it made robots not work...or do weird stuff. It's probably just your numbers.

Note...
A way to get around this whole motor deal is to mount the motors parallel to each other then just have one turning an axle that goes to the other side. It's pretty simple...it just requires a long shaft and more sprockets/gears. This is the first year we have done anything like this...but it should work great. I know this probably won't help you for this year...but maybe for years to come. If you get a chance, take a look at our bot (Chuck - Team 84 (WATTNESS)). We have always had a powerful drivetrain. This year is certainly no exception :)

[Gadget470]

Originally posted by Elgin Clock
This idea is as good as the question posed to the FIRST message boards last year that asked a question like "Are we allowed to build into our robot a big retractable wall that unfolds and blocks our opponent's view??"

"May we drill holes in the very heavy air tank to reduce weight?" is right on that level.. the exception that proves the rule .. "No stupid questions"

[jon]

Originally posted by SlamminSammy
C29

Custom Circuits may not:
-Interfere with the operation of other robots
...


Does that mean if the curcuit isn't custom, it's legal? Loopholes are fun. Though yes, I'd never do this... at least not during competition. And yes, there's probably some other rule that covers this too....

[Gadget470]

Anything directly outside of FIRST provided materials for basic robot function, or FIRST provided materials for a custom purpose, would be a custom circut.

There is no sensor jammer in the kit, thefore making something into one would be a custom circuit.. if powered.

[Marc P.]

As a standard piece of any regional, an Innovation First Staff member is always present, along with a complete 900mhz frequency range scanner used to detect all radio transmissions within distance of obstructing radio commincations to the robots. During and after each match, the data is analyzed to determine if packet loss/interferance played a critical role in the development of the match. 99.99999% of the time, there is no issue- since individual channels are chosen and specifically set for each station of the playing field- a total of 8 unique competition only channels. Any radio noise from an Operator Interface of a Robot Controller is immediatly identified by the scanner, complete with team number the OI is set to, and any noise otherwise simply shows up as noise, but at a specific frequency which can easily be identified. Moral of the story- don't even try it, or you will get caught and disqualified from the entire competition :eek:

[195PitMonkey]

Belive it or not all you need to mess up those 'bot radio modems is an old cordless phone. Grab yourself an older cordless phone that utilizes 900Mhz, and has a scan frequency button. Turn on the phone and scan frequencys untill you hear alot of static and look for the nearest gliching robot. As a side note I do not condone this and as someone said it is exreamly ungracious and unprofesional.

[Adam Y.]

As a standard piece of any regional, an Innovation First Staff member is always present, along with a complete 900mhz frequency range scanner used to detect all radio transmissions within distance of obstructing radio commincations to the robots. During and after each match, the data is analyzed to determine if packet loss/interferance played a critical role in the development of the match. 99.99999% of the time, there is no issue- since individual channels are chosen and specifically set for each station of the playing field- a total of 8 unique competition only channels.
I saw that at the long island regional. It had something that looked like the radio modem (but said frequency scanner) and was hooked up to a computer. Are you sure it is that easy to glitch a robot?? I know with pcm hobby radios the information is codded and the radio just ignores stuff that does not have the coded information.

[Pin Man]

uuuuummmmmmmmm no

[J2Kraatz]

Are you CRAZY homebread do you know how many people would kick your bot if you did that.

[AlbertW]

Most cell phones in the US operate on the 1900 mhz band, and the international ones operate on 1800 and 800. None of them interfere with the radio modems.

[SharkBite]

I think it was mentioned before, but FIRST will catch you if you try this. Not only do they scan for the radio signals but there's a set of LEDS that indicate any problems between the robot and the radio link