Alright Its Time To post those Times [Archive]

Dan Richardson

17-02-2003, 22:09

Hrmm, Sorry about the pun :-)

How Fast does your Bot Get to the Top ?

Our Bot is a beast ( atleast we hope so ) its gettin up just over 3 seconds ( like 3.2-3.4 area ) thats about as fast as it will get

still not exactly sure what we will do with the rest of our time, prob. just try to run into stuff

Dan Team #710

Yan Wang

17-02-2003, 22:12

To get from the start position to the top of the HDPE (hit the stacks) takes ~ 2 seconds easily.

Dan Richardson

17-02-2003, 22:27

wow I'd like to see the drive train on that one

do you have any pictures posted?

MikeDubreuil

17-02-2003, 23:14

To get from the start position to the top of the HDPE (hit the stacks) takes ~ 2 seconds easily.

Lets try to keep this thread to accurate numbers. I highly doubt you make it in 2.0 - 2.9 seconds, let alone easilly.

Our robot makes it to the top in 6 seconds in low gear (about 4 fps). We are working to reduce that number into the high 3 second region by running in high gear (about 10 fps). The shifting method is still being worked on; luckilly school tomorrow has been cancelled.

Stephen Kowski

18-02-2003, 00:03

Originally posted by MikeDubreuil
Lets try to keep this thread to accurate numbers. I highly doubt you make it in 2.0 - 2.9 seconds, let alone easilly.

Well until competition can you disprove them? just take it for what it is worth to you, and in a few weeks everyone is going to know about most everyone else.

Robb Gerber

18-02-2003, 00:34

We ran our bot in autonomus mode tonite and
got to the top in around 4 sec's. Our program is still
a bit raw but we're definitely going fast!

Daniel Brim

18-02-2003, 01:07

One team at the SCRRF scrimmage had an arm that came out and hit the boxes. Took about 2 secs. Unfortunately, we did not get to see our linetracker yet because their tape was not reflective enough.

Mike Norton

18-02-2003, 09:00

look at he gallery. We have pictures showing were are robot is and how long it took to get there. we hit the top in 4 seconds and the other side in 7 seconds

Tyler Olds

18-02-2003, 09:17

Regarding the fast times.............. are you using line sensors or dead reckoning........... if your using line I am highly impressed, if you are relying on dead reckoning I would re think your autonomous strategy.

abeD

18-02-2003, 11:16

Whats wrong with dead-reackoning?

Ian W.

18-02-2003, 11:32

Originally posted by Tyler Olds
Regarding the fast times.............. are you using line sensors or dead reckoning........... if your using line I am highly impressed, if you are relying on dead reckoning I would re think your autonomous strategy.

remember, if your a line tracker, and someone pushes you off, you're just as screwed as if you're a dead reckoner and someone pushes you.

Tyler Olds

18-02-2003, 11:37

I would have to disagree with that, if you line track and you get pushed off, your bot will look for the line and continue its path.

Oh and if you think I am talking about robots in the way thats not what i meant.

Dan-o

18-02-2003, 11:49

I might want to relay to you that depending on the shape of the front of the robot, It may not be as easy as you think to knock them off track. Enough said...

Mike Norton

18-02-2003, 12:12

We use dead-reackoning.

we use this because it is the fastest way we know to get the job done.

I would like to see someone hit us before we are on the ramp.

If they can hit us in 2 sec for the start then my hat is off to you.

but if you look at our arms, if we are turn off our route the arms will center the robot when it hits a wall and then it will be a pushing match.

I hope you program your robot to shut off because If we are in a pushing match I bet we will see white smoke coming up for the robots.

I really think a lot of robot will be dead in the water after the 15 second auto time is up.

1) because the robot is not doing what you program it to do and it kills itself.

2) your scare the robot is in danger so you hit the stop button and you have to wait another 30 seconds.

3) you run into another robot and you get flipped over. ( this one I see happening a lot this year for all those stacker's.)

4) Last thing there are going to be teams that are not going to be ready so their robot will not even move.

MikeDubreuil

18-02-2003, 12:30

This is slightly off-topic...
but if you look at our arms, if we are turn off our route the arms will center the robot when it hits a wall and then it will be a pushing match.

We looked into the possibility of adding an arm when we ran the forces. It would require us to attach to the field in some way to keep the robot from falling over. This would of course violate the playing field rules. How do you stay stable?

Jeremy_Mc

18-02-2003, 13:00

i also find the possibility of 2 seconds VERY VERY improbable...

you'd have to be moving at a speed greater than 12 FPS even while turning.

i can see maybe an arm reaching up and hitting them or something of that nature, but a bot running up the ramp that fast is very unlikely.

we get up there in about 5 seconds. yes i know that's a pretty slow time, but we're not about the speed.

*jeremy

jacob_dilles

18-02-2003, 13:51

the last time i checked, our bot was doing 15 fps on carpeted surfaces. that goes down to about 10 on rounded turns. we make it up the ramp (to the boxes) in just under 3 seconds. i love our drive train. oh, and by the way, thats in low gear.

JVN

18-02-2003, 14:02

Originally posted by Mike Norton
We use dead-reackoning.

we use this because it is the fastest way we know to get the job done.

I would like to see someone hit us before we are on the ramp.

If they can hit us in 2 sec for the start then my hat is off to you.

but if you look at our arms, if we are turn off our route the arms will center the robot when it hits a wall and then it will be a pushing match.

I hope you program your robot to shut off because If we are in a pushing match I bet we will see white smoke coming up for the robots.

I really think a lot of robot will be dead in the water after the 15 second auto time is up.

1) because the robot is not doing what you program it to do and it kills itself.

2) your scare the robot is in danger so you hit the stop button and you have to wait another 30 seconds.

3) you run into another robot and you get flipped over. ( this one I see happening a lot this year for all those stacker's.)

4) Last thing there are going to be teams that are not going to be ready so their robot will not even move.

I agree... We call it autonomous suicide...
I expect to see quite a few robots damage themselves, perhaps even terminally during autonomous rounds...

As for your comment about white smoke pouring out...
Shouldn't a properly designed low gear spin the tires when at "static push". If done correctly a robot can push against a wall for 2 minutes, and still not over stress the drivetrain.

I know that's how I designed ours. :confused:

Mike Norton

18-02-2003, 14:24

As for your comment about white smoke pouring out...

Shouldn't't a properly designed low gear spin the tires when at "static push". If done correctly a robot can push against a wall for 2 minutes, and still not over stress the drive-train.

We made our if it hits the wall we will push the wall down. We make sure we have more traction than not.

We saw last year people that had good traction get flipped over because of there traction and were they grab the goals.

And we saw robots burn up there motors.

So I would say you will See at lease 4 robots in each of the regionals burn out there motors and that is on the low side

Owen

18-02-2003, 14:26

We hit the boxes in 7 seconds at the best.

How fast are your times with totes stacked in front of the ramp or all your times with a clear shot? It makes a difference to our bot.

OneAngryDaisy

18-02-2003, 14:38

jacob_dilles

18-02-2003, 15:01

3 guys pushing against the bot cant stall it...

Jeremy_Mc

18-02-2003, 15:02

Originally posted by jacob_dilles
the last time i checked, our bot was doing 15 fps on carpeted surfaces. that goes down to about 10 on rounded turns. we make it up the ramp (to the boxes) in just under 3 seconds. i love our drive train. oh, and by the way, thats in low gear.

what motors are you using?! :yikes:

if you're using drills, you'd have to have really small, really slick wheels just to get started. then you'd have to have REALLY big wheels to retain that speed.

there's no way you can have them in low gear, get that speed, and still be able to overcome the static friction of wheels with any sort of competitive traction.

*jeremy

jacob_dilles

18-02-2003, 15:33

i hope your coming to Richmond, because all i can say now is that no, we do not have dynamically changing wheel sizes, and yes we are using the included drill motors...

Gope

18-02-2003, 16:09

I expect the fast teams to be there around 3 seconds to 3.5 seconds.

Very few teams, if any, will be there in under 3, and I expect to see no more than a handfull around 2 seconds at nationals.

Expect most teams to be around 4.5 seconds.

mav

18-02-2003, 16:11

we are a distance measurer and can get to the totes in about 2.5-3 sec

Stephen Kowski

18-02-2003, 16:13

Originally posted by Mike Norton

....I really think a lot of robot will be dead in the water after the 15 second auto time is up.

2) your scare the robot is in danger so you hit the stop button and you have to wait another 30 seconds.

We made our if it hits the wall we will push the wall down. We make sure we have more traction than not.

We saw last year people that had good traction get flipped over because of there traction and were they grab the goals.

And we saw robots burn up there motors.

So I would say you will See at lease 4 robots in each of the regionals burn out there motors and that is on the low side

just the highlights

wow..... http://www.hookedonphonics.com

Jeremy_Mc

18-02-2003, 16:24

OK...you say you're using the drills.

This is the spec's of a drill (the fastest motor):
461.52 RPM geared down minimally (the provided gearbox).

Now, let's divide this by 60 for Rotations Per Second (RPS):
461.52 / 60 = RPS
7.692 = RPS

Now that we have that, let's figure out how far you'd go on one rotation. Basically, your rate of speed. We'll use 8" wheels as a control size.
8 * 7.692 = 61.536

Next, we'll figure out the distance traveled.
(1' space for transfer from alley to scoring zone) + (Pi * 4' for the circumference of the circle) + 8' up the ramp
1 + (4pi) + 8 = 21.594

Convert to inches.
21.594 * 12 = 259.128

Now, let's figure out how long it would take you...
259.128 / 61.536 = 4.2109~

4.2 seconds.

WOW! THAT'S TOTALLY TWO SECONDS.

or not.

that's about as fast as most can expect (many teams will beat this...many teams won't). it's all relative to gearing...

anyhow, if you can get two seconds by running up the ramp, i'll give you props. but i wanna see it before i believe it.

*jeremy

jacob_dilles

18-02-2003, 17:49

4.2 sec? well thats one perfectly theoretical calculation, congrats. you assume that we have two powered wheels and that we use the wheels that first gives us. and i never said 2 seconds; i said 3. -Jacob

Dan Richardson

18-02-2003, 21:16

Well I do like to think that they are kinda fudging the truth a little, But I won't say they are completely making that up

Right now we are running at 7.7 feet per second and we get up in about 3.3 seconds ( thats to the middle 5 high stacks ), We have arm that reachs up a little before us but we also have front wheel steering so we can make a lot tighter circle than the one provided

now if we would like we can make it faster by changing a few sprokets and mayb it will make it just under 3 but any faster I doubt

Right now we also have a 1:21 gear ratio on the chip motors so we get a good amount of torque, ( not as strong as I expect team 61 to have or some others but more than a lot of teams will have runnin above 10 fps )

Especially if they are running the drills stand alone

Now without our arm in prelim runs we were running in about 2.4 seconds to the top of the ramp .. So to say 2 seconds is impossible I dare not venture, and No one need lie about it because it would make people all the more dissapointed to go to competition with false hopes, and develop a sense of irritation towards your team.

But there will be teams that get up there dang fast

Now ImO dead reckoning is the fastest but will also cause a chance for a lot of " autonomous suicide " the reason why I believe this is because we are running a basic stamp with a slow calc. speed, the autonomous programs i've seen the bot spends to much time scanning for the line and to little time going to the top

You can see a lot of our pics ( we have tons ) Here (http://www.team710.com)

hopefully we'll have some finished pics with our lexan and graphics and our film of stacking boxes and/or getting to the top for everyone very soon

Owen

19-02-2003, 11:36

Mike Norton

19-02-2003, 12:13

We found that you could stack the totes so they would catch the edge of the ramp. This seriously impedes the progrress up the ramp. It is like pushing the enitre ramp. It certainly slowed down our autonomous mode.

Our robot stays true even when you put the bins next to the ramp, or any other place. The only place that will slow our robot down will be under the bar. And I said slow us down. Our robot can push the bins under the bar. I would like to see any other robot try that.

I know robots will be there in about 3 to 4 seconds. We will be close but if they do knock the bins over be ready to have them come back at you.

If you are fast you better be strong because if you are not the bins will come back at you and your robot will be pushed out of the way.

Joe Matt

19-02-2003, 12:33

Sparky 4: Scorpian takes only 3 seconds.

Kris Verdeyen

19-02-2003, 12:35

Originally posted by Mike Norton
Our robot can push the bins under the bar. I would like to see any other robot try that.

I'll believe it when I see it. In other words, post a video already!

Originally posted by Owen
We found that you could stack the totes so they would catch the edge of the ramp.

Can you do this even while stacking the bins right side up?

Mike Norton

19-02-2003, 12:55

I'll believe it when I see it. In other words, post a video already!

Our robot is packed and shipped. You will have to wait until UCF to see this happen.

The bins do not look like bins when they do go under the bar. :)

You have to be one of those people that said we couldn't pull as much as we did last year.

take a look at Heat Wave on it's back holding onto two goals. we drag them across the field with the two goals

this is when we turn Heat Wave:
http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/Robotics/images/2002%20Robot%20Flipping%20Robot2.jpg

This is when we dragged them:
http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/Robotics/images/2002%20Robot%20Flipping%20Robot.jpg

just think we have more power this year because of the new drills.;)

these were last year belts from BrecoFlex:
http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/Robotics/images/MVC-673S.JPG

You can call BrecoFlex and they will give you the specs on these belts. We went to a stronger belt this year.

Owen

19-02-2003, 12:56

Yes even with the totes right side up. There is an edge at the bottom of the ramp and the totes have a straight edge that is about 5/8 of an inch at the bottom. Depending on ramp edge we found the totes could act as quite a block. It was done to us at scrimmage.

Gary Dillard

19-02-2003, 16:42

Originally posted by Mike Norton
Our robot is packed and shipped. You will have to wait until UCF to see this happen.

You have to be one of those people that said we couldn't pull as much as we did last year.

Oh I remember you now - you're the guy who claimed to drag us all over the field at KSC. Still looking for that video. See you at UCF.

BionicAlumni

19-02-2003, 19:14

Originally posted by Mike Norton
Our robot is packed and shipped. You will have to wait until UCF to see this happen.

The bins do not look like bins when they do go under the bar. :)

You have to be one of those people that said we couldn't pull as much as we did last year.

take a look at Heat Wave on it's back holding onto two goals. we drag them across the field with the two goals

this is when we turn Heat Wave:
http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/Robotics/images/2002%20Robot%20Flipping%20Robot2.jpg

This is when we dragged them:
http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/Robotics/images/2002%20Robot%20Flipping%20Robot.jpg

just think we have more power this year because of the new drills.;)

these were last year belts from BrecoFlex:
http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/Robotics/images/MVC-673S.JPG

You can call BrecoFlex and they will give you the specs on these belts. We went to a stronger belt this year.

OK now we have seen all the pics of you "dragging" heatwave across the feild, lets see the pic of your national championship trophey?

Whats that you say? You don't have one? Oh ok well then lets see a regional championship trophey? None of those either?

OK so let your play on the feild show who you are, and stop flapping your jaw here.