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View Full Version : Image Discuss: 810 - Minotaur: Coming to a regional near you.


CD47-Bot
02-20-2003, 05:00 PM
[cdm-description=photo]14987[/cdm-description]

Austin
02-20-2003, 05:03 PM
Nice milling job on the frame, CNC?

BTW....a screwdriver isn't a legal part, is it? ;)

Aaron Lussier
02-20-2003, 05:21 PM
Is that a screwdriver holding up the right side lifter
??? Your gonna get a pin or something in there right???

Madison
02-20-2003, 05:23 PM
Sheesh. ...talk about not seeing the forest for the trees :P

Yes, it's a screwdriver. No, it wasn't permanent. This photograph was taken over the passed weekend. The screwdriver has since been replaced with a shaft.

Yes, the frame was milled on a CNC mill. It was milled as a flat sheet, save for any critical alignment holes, then it was bent. After it was bent, all holes that were critical for alignment between the two halves were drilled.

Rob Colatutto
02-20-2003, 05:23 PM
may wanna tighten those chains on your drive train too, unless you don';t want to move too well

JVN
02-20-2003, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by Nataku
may wanna tighten those chains on your drive train too, unless you don';t want to move too well

Holy Nitpickers Batman!

Guys, M just came out and said this pic is from last weekend. The bot just probably has not been tweaked/polished yet.

It seems like everyone is viewing this year's teasers and posting random, detail based comments. Just enjoy the robot for what it is...

Which is something NO ONE is doing!

Take a closer look at this robot. I happen to know it is more than meets the eye... Then once you formulate your guess... LOOK AGAIN!

Think twice about another team's design before you pretend to fully understand it... let alone criticize it!



Nice Bot M! Can't wait to see it working in all it's glory!
Enjoy some sleep!

joe gem
02-20-2003, 05:29 PM
since last weekend the screwdrivers were replaced the chains were tightend and those wooden dowels holding the hooks on were also replaced with pins:D
the bot moves very well with the chains tightend
how well?
well i guess u will jus have to wait;)

Madison
02-20-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Nataku
may wanna tighten those chains on your drive train too, unless you don';t want to move too well

Tensioners have already been added.

We didn't get a good picture of the robot as it shipped because we didn't really have time.

Cory
02-20-2003, 06:35 PM
/me is tempted so much to tell what it does.

Look at all of their teasers. Maddie has dropped uncountable amounts of hints.

All Ill say is this: If their bot works right, everyone better watch out.

Cory

Caleb Fulton
02-20-2003, 06:51 PM
Let me take a guess:

It can grab a stack of four bins from one side and move it over the bar?

David.Cook
02-21-2003, 02:16 AM
This is the first truly impressive design I have seen since I started looking (about 50 'bots ago).

Clearly the 'bot can pick up bins, and even multiple bins. But what I like is that it appears they are secure enough to travel over the ramp, and they can be placed (I assume) as a stack all at once.

What I appreciate about this is the focus on scoring, not defense.

Great work guys!

Dave Cook

Go Sparky!
384

The Lucas
02-21-2003, 12:29 PM
Perhaps the most original design I've seen so far. I like the hooks that fit into the handles of the boxes. I have a few questions though

1) What holds the top of the boxes? (It is obstructed by boxes)

2) Can u make a stack?

3) Can u pick up a stack that is not nested well?

joe gem
02-21-2003, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by The Lucas
Perhaps the most original design I've seen so far. I like the hooks that fit into the handles of the boxes. I have a few questions though

1) What holds the top of the boxes? (It is obstructed by boxes)

2) Can u make a stack?

3) Can u pick up a stack that is not nested well?

if u mean wats holding the boxes from sliding off of the hooks, then there is a peice of plastic(dont know wat kind) witch acts like a lip sticking up from the the end of the arm witch is holding the top of the first box from falling off. since all of the other boxes are undernieth the box witch is held by the piece of plastic, that box will keep all of the other boxes from falling off. the boxes wont fall of the the sides because the hooks fit nice and tight into the handle's.
yes, we can make a stack
i dont know yet. the team had a small amount of time to practice driving and testing all of the scenarios of a possible stack position

Ian W.
02-21-2003, 07:25 PM
we have a small piece of lexan that holds the boxes at the top, but we don't really need it, for picking up a stack at least. we've tested with less than 4 bins, and they seem to hold ok.

i came up with a way to stack based on our design, but it was an afterthought, not a design feature. so, yes, we can stack. can we do it in the thick of competition, that remains to be seen.

lastly, we can theoretically pick up any stack, regardless of if it's up against a wall, i think. i haven't been able to test it, maybe another member of my team has more detailed answers, but i can't answer that question, at least till competition :).

Jeff Waegelin
02-21-2003, 09:05 PM
Bins over the bar, hmmmm....? If I were building a stacker, that's the way I'd do it.

J.Rees
02-22-2003, 11:03 AM
Nice work guys. I would be afraid to have to face you again. NYC 2002. I like the design... I'm suprised that nobody commented on your lack of signs/numbers. I know... old pict. Good luck

Dan Richardson
02-22-2003, 11:10 AM
Looks amazing, really cool, do y ou guys fold up to go under the bar by ne chance?

what do you plan on doing if your up against a rampdom bot?

Ian W.
02-22-2003, 12:32 PM
well, as for team numbers and whatnot, we're putting that on at annapolis. didn't have time, and it's not very important :p.

as for KOH bots, we'll just go around them. i think we'll have enough power to push the weaker ones, but not the stronger ones. plus, we can just move all their bins out of the scoring zone if they're too scared to come down and play with us :).

jburstein
02-23-2003, 02:17 PM
Your robot suffers from the WORST case of "engineer takeover" I have ever seen. It's a very cool robot, but it's just to bad that the stundents didn't have a hand in designing/building it.

JVN
02-23-2003, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by jburstein
Your robot suffers from the WORST case of "engineer takeover" I have ever seen. It's a very cool robot, but it's just to bad that the stundents didn't have a hand in designing/building it.

So...
You spent a lot of time in the 810 shop?
No?

Ohh, then you must be good friends with some of the people on 810?
Nooo??

Ohh, then you must just be some amazing psychic who has insight into the 810 shop, and all that has gone on there?
Noooo???

Then... how do you feel you have the right to criticize?
Honestly... what did that post do? What did you just accomplish, other than attacking a great team (who you probably haven't interacted with), and their methods?

Madison
02-23-2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by jburstein
Your robot suffers from the WORST case of "engineer takeover" I have ever seen. It's a very cool robot, but it's just to bad that the stundents didn't have a hand in designing/building it.

I'll be sure to pass your insightful comments along to the two engineers who had nothing to do with the design of this robot. That's especially remarkable, too, seeing as we have only two engineers that have any involvement in our team.

Don't open your mouth when you clearly know nothing. It makes you, and your team, look exceptionally stupid. Don't judge my team, either. I take it personally.

If you'd like to pursue this further, you can send me a PM. Otherwise, please be quiet. Thanks.

chellyzee93
02-23-2003, 03:04 PM
*jaw drops*

Ian W.
02-23-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by jburstein
Your robot suffers from the WORST case of "engineer takeover" I have ever seen. It's a very cool robot, but it's just to bad that the stundents didn't have a hand in designing/building it.


um, yeah, right.

i'm one of the "core-students" on 810. we have M. Krass, a college student/engineer, who design the robot, two machine shops who have CNC mills/lathes/benders/etc, a company who provides us with an engineer or two, and a student on the team has a small machine shop in his basement. we also have an electrical engineer, his wife who is a computer scientist, and several parents who help whenever they can.

the students have built most, if not all of that machine. sure, the engineers help, they make tons of stuff for us. but in no way, shape, or form have the engineers taken over.

i take it as an insult, for you to just look and say "engineer takeover" because it is implying that me, and my team, are incapable as high school students alone, to make such a robot. if your team is this way, well, i feel sorry for you, and you should work on fixing this. my team is a combination of high school students and engineers, working together, key word here, to make a robot.

FYI: i'm a programmer for the team, no one engineer knows programming. how is that engineer takeover? without me and the other programmers, all students, that robot wouldn't work, no matter how hard the engineers jumped up and down.

i don't see a picture of other teams' robots and say "engineer takeover." sure, there's teams that do nothing while the engineers do everything. we're not one of them.

i notice you're in palo alto, i believe that's in CA if i'm correct. 810 will be at the SVR regional, so if you feel so inclined to insult my team, maybe you can stop by our pits, and we can show you how the students work, build, and know the robot like the back of their hands. if you can say the same about your team's students, great, but it doesn't give you the right to go forth and bash other teams, that are ACROSS THE COUNTRY from you, without knowing a single thing about them, except that they built an exceptionally professional looking robot (and that is inferred from your comment of "engineer takeover," because if they took it over, they'd make it look professional, right?).

Melissa Nute
02-23-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by jburstein
Your robot suffers from the WORST case of "engineer takeover" I have ever seen. It's a very cool robot, but it's just to bad that the stundents didn't have a hand in designing/building it.
/me stands stunned...

Why would some one claim they know something when they dont...

Madison
02-23-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Stud Man Dan
Looks amazing, really cool, do y ou guys fold up to go under the bar by ne chance?

what do you plan on doing if your up against a rampdom bot?

The robot, as it exists right now, cannot go under the barrier.

It was designed to do something a bit better than that, but, unfortunately, we ran out of time to really get the assurance we need to label it a feature.

In either case, we are working at solving our reliability issues where that is concerned, as well as developing a contingency retrofit that may be better suited toward effectively competing in a game that plays out like we've been seeing in scrimmages.

Stay tuned for details. Maybe.

joe gem
02-23-2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by jburstein
Your robot suffers from the WORST case of "engineer takeover" I have ever seen. It's a very cool robot, but it's just to bad that the stundents didn't have a hand in designing/building it.
i go wit ian w. u have no write to criticize my team
is there any reason to do that?
i cant think of one
this robot took me and the rest of my team many "man" hours to build. we would stay up at the school until 11:30+ at night.
i know almost everything about that robot. and so does most of the other team members on the team
so i still cant think of any reason to say that about my team.

jburstein
02-23-2003, 11:03 PM
perhaps I am wrong, and if so I apologize, but I believe 810 was the team last year that had a I saw with 4 middle-aged balding guys all by themselves repairing the robot at nationals last year. The huge amount of machining has gone into your robot suggests that adults were heavily involved in building the bot.

I hear the protest from every team "but we know the robot like the back of our hand!!" That may be so, and I don't know what your team is like, but on my team any student who had a hand in building the robot could fix any mechanical system robot given a reasonable amount of time and appropriate tools. Most of us could fix electrical malfunctions as well.

I suspect that such is not quite the case on your team. And yes we will be at SVR and you're welcome to come by our pit and check out the robot that no one over the age of 19 touched from the day the materials were bought to the day it went into the crate (yes i'm sure it's hyperbole- our janitor probably pushed it aside, and our teacher helped us carry it to practice, but the point is that no adult built/designed anything for us).

Sorry if I offend, but each year our student built robot does very well at SVR, only to be taken down in quarter or semi-finals by robots that were built by engineers. Eventually you get kinda frustrated about that, y'know what i mean?

soezgg
02-23-2003, 11:08 PM
just so you know...those 4 middle aged balding guys were all students...maddie, ian, john and dave

they did a $@#$@#$@#$@# good job even though they beat up our team.

jburstein
02-23-2003, 11:11 PM
these guys were CLEARLY not students- but as i said it was last year, so may have the wrong team...

Cory
02-23-2003, 11:17 PM
wow, I am stunned. How can you make such claims without even knowing what goes on? I know a few of 810's team members quite well, and I can say that from what Ive seen, they are very very involved in their robot. Do I sense a bit of jealousy that your team has no engineers working to your teams advantage? It makes no sense to be proud of never having an engineer help you. Try it, your bot will be better. We pride ourselves on being student run and student built, but guess what? We have 3 engineers that help us, and without them, we would be nowhere near where we are now. Just because a teams robot looks nice, it doesnt mean it was made by engineers. Even if it was made by engineers, yes it is unfair, but the point of FIRST isnt winning, or losing, its what you get out of it. If you are on a team that is totally dominated by engineers, but you have the greatest experience in the world, thats great. Similarly, if you are on a student dominated team, but you have a bad experience, then it sucks.

In conclusion, dont bash on teams you know nothing about... because we all know you don't.

Cory

Madison
02-23-2003, 11:26 PM
I kindly asked that if you had any further baseless accusations to make, you do so through a Private Message to myself or any of my team members. Your inability to grant such a small request is noted. Or, perhaps it suggests that you did not even read what we've written.

Originally posted by jburstein
perhaps I am wrong, and if so I apologize, but I believe 810 was the team last year that had a I saw with 4 middle-aged balding guys all by themselves repairing the robot at nationals last year.


Maybe we were blessed, but there wasn't a single balding guy on our team last season. What few repairs we needed to do were tended to by the students or, in one instance, myself. Furthermore, to use something as insignificant as that to make such wildly incorrect assumptions about our team and to go so far as to post them in this public forum is ridiculous. You should be ashamed of yourself.


The huge amount of machining has gone into your robot suggests that adults were heavily involved in building the bot.


Pictures can be quite deceiving, then. We are lucky enough to have the support of two very well equipped machine shops, with a combined total of nearly 20 CNC mills. These are businesses and are operated by adults. But, if you're familiar with CNC machining, you'll realize that relatively little 'work' goes into producing a part. The machines are programmed in code generated from drawings our students produced. When the parts were finished, the students assembled them, made necessary changes, and addressed problems as they arose.


I hear the protest from every team "but we know the robot like the back of our hand!!" That may be so, and I don't know what your team is like, but on my team any student who had a hand in building the robot could fix any mechanical system robot given a reasonable amount of time and appropriate tools. Most of us could fix electrical malfunctions as well.



If you're going to draw judgement after looking at only one source, please take me as an example. By my behavior on these forums, you can very safely assume that I do not train my students as Pavlovian Dogs, and they're not conditioned to respond with, "but we know the robot like the back of our hand." While there weren't as many students actively interested in completing our robot this season as I would have liked, each of those students who made a commitment to completing this machine is well versed in its design and function. They can not only repair it, but explain the concepts that drive its design.

Moreso, if your assertion that simply any student with enough time and the right tools could fix the robots, I don't understand what benefit you'd see in their designing anything.


I suspect that such is not quite the case on your team.


Your suspicion is based on nothing but hollow conclusions you've drawn from your own misconceptions.


And yes we will be at SVR and you're welcome to come by our pit and check out the robot that no one over the age of 19 touched from the day the materials were bought to the day it went into the crate (yes i'm sure it's hyperbole- our janitor probably pushed it aside, and our teacher helped us carry it to practice, but the point is that no adult built/designed anything for us).


Likewise, you're welcome to visit us at our pit and see what your students are capable of accomplishing. Just because a team is student run and may not have the aid of professionals does not give them license nor excuse to produce something less than a professional product. My students are very proud of this accomplishment, they consider it their own, and they have lost nothing by having the guiding hand of engineers, machinists, parents, and mentors involved in this process. While your students may have earned the satisfaction of nursing a project from concept to completion in a totally isolated environment, my students have learned what it is like to function in a professional environment. They have worked concurrently with other professionals to complete their project.

How dare you try to degrade their achievement, their effort, and my commitment to inspiring these kids in the best ways I know how by making horribly unfounded, incorrect, and childish accusations about our team, its members, and its processes.


Sorry if I offend, but each year our student built robot does very well at SVR, only to be taken down in quarter or semi-finals by robots that were built by engineers. Eventually you get kinda frustrated about that, y'know what i mean? [/B]

No, frankly, I have no idea. Winning doesn't concern most of my team in the least. Our experience has already been amazing.

Once again, I'll ask that if you feel the compulsion to further pursue this, do so via PM. I've cleaned out my mailbox some, in the event that I could not receive any more messages. Do me a favor, though, and stop publicly defaming our achievement with the hope of overcoming your own insecurity.

See you at SVR. Good luck.

Ian W.
02-24-2003, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by jburstein
perhaps I am wrong, and if so I apologize, but I believe 810 was the team last year that had a I saw with 4 middle-aged balding guys all by themselves repairing the robot at nationals last year. The huge amount of machining has gone into your robot suggests that adults were heavily involved in building the bot.

I hear the protest from every team "but we know the robot like the back of our hand!!" That may be so, and I don't know what your team is like, but on my team any student who had a hand in building the robot could fix any mechanical system robot given a reasonable amount of time and appropriate tools. Most of us could fix electrical malfunctions as well.

I suspect that such is not quite the case on your team. And yes we will be at SVR and you're welcome to come by our pit and check out the robot that no one over the age of 19 touched from the day the materials were bought to the day it went into the crate (yes i'm sure it's hyperbole- our janitor probably pushed it aside, and our teacher helped us carry it to practice, but the point is that no adult built/designed anything for us).

Sorry if I offend, but each year our student built robot does very well at SVR, only to be taken down in quarter or semi-finals by robots that were built by engineers. Eventually you get kinda frustrated about that, y'know what i mean?

Once again, as a student member of Team 810, I take offense to your post. As M. Krass has said, we had not one "middle-aged balding guy" on team last year at Nationals. You obviously saw another team, or are coming up with extremely poor "excuses" to your contentions, which have already been proved false. In any case, if there were four men working on our robot, what would it matter? We have several teachers and engineers on Team 810 who value the robot just as much as the students, because they put just as much, if not more, time and effort into making it work. They have every right to work on it, as far as I'm concerned.

Regarding the repairs of any system on the robot. I'm a programmer and "electrician." I can fix any problem, from bugs in the program, to rewiring frayed wires, with no problems. I also know exactly how the pneumatic system works, after an engineer explained a few things about the solenoids to me. I know how the transmission works, I know how the motors are geared, I know how the chains bring power to the wheels. I can fix any system on my robot, albeit not easily, but I can fix any system, by myself. Of course, I'd need the right tools, and considering we put the robot together with nothing more than wrenches, a few hammers, screw drivers, chain puller/breaker, and various cutting tools, there's not much I need to fix my robot. The rest of my team, the students that are committed at least, have the same degree of knowledge of all of the parts, except maybe the electrical system. This year, our electronics are much more complicated and organized than last year, but since we have all the sheets that detail how it works, I'm sure they could figure it out no problem if me or someone else not knowledgeable in the electronics wasn't there.

You suspect that Team 810 can't fix stuff by our selfs (I'm guessing this means that the engineers and teachers aren't part of the team). Well, if the above paragraph doesn't settle things for you, maybe you can drop by our pits, and me and the other students can show you what we know. Remember, you're the one who doesn't believe me and needs the proving, hence I invited you to come. I want to say I believe you that no one over the age of 19 has touched your robot, but because you can't come up with valid information on my team, and instead resort to unfounded claims, I find it hard to believe anything I see from you.

Sorry if you offended me? Hmm, I don't quite think that cuts it, after you went and told the world that you think that the students (which includes me) of Team 810 are a bunch of incompetent morons incapable of building a professional looking robot from scratch. I don't see how you could be so insensitive as to make such an outrageous claim, knowing nothing about my team. It almost brings me to tears, because of the blatant lack of "Gracious Professionalism" which is so deeply ingrained in the spirit of FIRST, or so I thought.

As M. Krass stated, I know that I, as a student of Team 810, do not really care about winning. Sure, I'd love to come in first place all the time, but it's not something I need to be happy. I'm happy if the robot that I helped to build works. Anything else shows that my team did an exceptionally good job, and that know what we're doing. As a driver, I know what it's like to win, I also know what it's like when the robot breaks, and you know exactly why, and you loose. Don't lecture me on how you were unhappy that other teams did better because they were built by engineers. Last year, Team 810, as a rookie team, managed to get into the quarter finals at the NYC regional. Have you seen our robot from last year? It's a sad sight, I must say. You know how we did so well? Teamwork, teamwork, and, GASP!, teamwork. Everyone worked together for a common goal, trying to win, and we almost made it. We were taken down in the end because we were not able to come up with an effective strategy to beat 358 (Hauppage, a team that helped us last year) and I believe T.R.I.B.E.S. We were the powerhouse robot on our alliance, and we did the best we could, but lost, and you know what, no one cared because we were happy that we got that far.

As M. Krass says, if you feel the need to bash me and my team anymore than you already have, please do so through Private Messages, AIM, or email. My screen name and email address is right below, if you feel the need to continue this, please contact me through one of those channels.

Going back to the topic at hand, does anyone have any comments, suggestions, or questions regarding our robot?

DaBruteForceGuy
02-24-2003, 03:23 PM
I have stayed quite too long.... I am the chief student enjineer and a very commited student on 810....I feel no need to defend our robot. The work and hardship that i put into this machine cannot be argued through words and a picture. When i break my back working on a machine for six weeks straight i am not thinking about what people are going to say about the bot.....what i can't wait to see is seeing the expression on their face when we wow them....... That is my compensation
+++Though, awards are definitly a plus:rolleyes:

Rook
02-24-2003, 03:52 PM
Good job 810. Both in your robot and your mature attitude on these boards.

joe gem
02-24-2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by DaBruteForceGuy
I have stayed quite too long.... I am the chief student enjineer and a very commited student on 810....I feel no need to defend our robot. The work and hardship that i put into this machine cannot be argued through words and a picture. When i break my back working on a machine for six weeks straight i am not thinking about what people are going to say about the bot.....what i can't wait to see is seeing the expression on their face when we wow them....... That is my compensation
+++Though, awards are definitly a plus:rolleyes:

dabrutforceguy
my team and all the other teams out there shouldnt take any bad $@$#$$@$@ stuff from anyone
we should jus look at all the hard work and long nites it took to make such a wonderful piece of work
yes our robot has gone under the bit of many cnc mills befor but if u take a closer look at the bot u will c wat i and the other more committed students went through to build it
this robot has been my life for 6 weeks. its all i ever talked about with my family and friends and then i have someone who knows absolutely nothing about my team or the work that went into making the bot go and put it down like that
if u havent noticed already i m one of the more committed students on my team. yes i am a "freshy" but i put in more work and time into this bot then most of the seniors and older team members
i broke my bak for 6 weeks every day trying to build this bot and i really dont appreciate wat u have said about it
if u want to argue about this beautiful machine then pm me and i will talk about it wit u
thank u
i personally wont be at the SRV regional but i will b happy anyway b/c i will know that the bot that worked on for such a long time works and moves in a game situation. and that is all that matters.
thank u again
joe
o- jus b/c winning isnt everything it doesnt mean that my team doesnt want a trofy or two:D

ggoldman
02-24-2003, 04:15 PM
I just want to commend 810 on an amazing looking bot.

I was a designer on team 384 for the past three years (now i am in college and still mentoring) and I can for one say that a capable student can do just as much..if not more.. work on a robot than an engineer or mentor.

When i was head of design team my junior and senior years, I spent every waking hour working on the plans for our robot. Hour after hour i would deign subsystems, make drill holes...and only because it is something I loved doing.

I guess my basic point is that you guys on 810 have a lot of pride in your robot and that is something that can not be broken by rude or obscene criticism.

On a side note... what program did you guys use to design in..Personally, I used Inventor for the past two years.

Once again awesome lookin bot...can't wait to see it perform.

Gabe Goldman
Mentor on team 384
Engineering Student at VCU
VCU ASME FIRST Student Coordinator

seanwitte
02-24-2003, 04:27 PM
This is my first year as a volunteer for Team 116, but I'm only involved in the programming and electonics subteams. I was wondering how smooth the transition was from the drawings to the milled parts to the assembled robot. Did you just deliver the files and pick up the finished parts? Very impressive looking robot, well done.

joe gem
02-24-2003, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by seanwitte
This is my first year as a volunteer for Team 116, but I'm only involved in the programming and electonics subteams. I was wondering how smooth the transition was from the drawings to the milled parts to the assembled robot. Did you just deliver the files and pick up the finished parts? Very impressive looking robot, well done.
wat do u mean
well once we gave the program to the miller he put the program into the cnc(witch he said was the longest pat in the hole doing he said it took him 8 hours to put the program of the largest piece we gave him into the cnc) then like 2 days or less later we would get the finished piece. on one or two parts we had to give them bak to the miller to tweek. but nothing substantial.:D

Keith Chester
02-24-2003, 04:50 PM
It's a great looking bot, but I want to see it in action! I can't wait until Annapolis. I hope you guys will give me the grand tour of the machine :D

DanL
02-24-2003, 06:23 PM
I found some pictures taken various times during the build season. Let me show you our great "engineering takeover." I tried to keep these pics to a minimum size so they load fast.


http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-misc_files/flame_pics/flame-learn2.jpg
The season began with the students dividing into groups and coming up with different ideas for the robot out of cardboard. As the design materialized, notes were taken and sketched about the various components to be designed.


http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-misc_files/flame_pics/flame-cad2.jpg
We worked on the CAD in our classroom. We loaded our Inventor on our laptop, and other people on the team brought their own laptops to work on from home. While one person designed one thing, the other did some dimensioning. With the funds left over from last year, we were able to buy our own brand new P4 laptop.


http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-misc_files/flame_pics/flame-learn1.jpg
For the new people, we laid the motors out on a piece of plywood, attached some PWMs and the control system, and showed people how those all work. Last year I was completely clueless about what a PWM did, how it did it, and why it modulates the pulse - this year I was teaching the new kids about 'em.


http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-misc_files/flame_pics/flame-fund1.jpg
As the major fundraiser, we made a deal with a local Mercedes dealer to raffle off a Mercedes that was given to us at a significant discount. The way it worked is all the students sold $50 tickets to parents, co-workers, family, local businesses, neighbors, etc. The grandprize winner had the option of taking either the car or half the money that was raised. In this case, the grandprize winner opted for the money. This is a picture of us awarding a check for $13,400. If that's half the money we raised, that means we raised $23,800 with this raffle. At $50 a ticket, well you do the math and see how many tickets we as a team sold.

DanL
02-24-2003, 06:25 PM
http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-misc_files/flame_pics/flame-cad1.jpg
As was mentioned before, we were really lucky to have the support of two local professional machine shops with us this year. This is us discussing our CAD drawings with one of the machinists - Mr. Price.


http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-misc_files/flame_pics/flame-mach1.jpg
http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-misc_files/flame_pics/flame-work3.jpg
We had two machine shops helping us out. We learned from them. At the beginning of the season, I had no idea what a CNC mill was, much less how a mill in general worked (I'm part of the electrical/programming side). Now I've seen them in action, and I think they're awesome tools. That's what this program is about.

http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-misc_files/flame_pics/flame-tour1.jpg
http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-misc_files/flame_pics/flame-tour2.jpg
Another cool thing we did was we took a tour of Anorad Corporation (http://www.anorad.com) - an engineering company nearby that makes, among other things, the huge machines that put big plasma tv's through quality testing (i.e. checking every single pixel to make sure it works in an insanely small amount of time). I don't know about anyone else, but I've never seen the insides of a large-scale engineering firm before this trip. Anorad has helped us by giving us the time of one of their engineers. He didn't design our entire bot. Rather, he offered us some advise about how to do things such as get CAD drawings ready for the machinists.

DanL
02-24-2003, 06:26 PM
http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-misc_files/flame_pics/flame-electr1.jpg
We also got the support of an electrical engineer once the building season began. Since I'm part of the electrical/programming part of the team, I learned the most from Mr. Pinter. This is a picture of a wiring run list that was made by him. We have a complex (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/pictures.php?s=&action=single&picid=3828&direction=DESC&sort=date&perrow=3&trows=4&quiet=verbose) robot this year, and without these Excell spreadsheets, wiring everything would have been such a pain. Before this season, I had no idea how to do something as efficient and organized as this. Though just a few sheets of paper, this method of organization is one of the most valuable things I learned this year.

http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-misc_files/flame_pics/flame-work1.jpg
http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-misc_files/flame_pics/flame-work2.jpg
http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-misc_files/flame_pics/flame-work4.jpg
And to close up, here's some pictures of us working - I'm sure all teams have tons of these.

Anyways, the point is although we had professional help, we didn't have an "engineering takeover." We had some help from the outside, but nothing like what you suggested. Don't get me wrong - I'm not bragging that "810 does this and nobody else - we're so unique!" We're not the first ones to do the activities that we did. I'm just showing you that we WERE involved.

Some teams do everything student-run. There's nothing wrong with that - in fact, taking on the challenges by yourself is really rewarding in the end.

We feel that you can learn a lot with professional help. Don't get me wrong - I don't mean help as in they do all the work. I mean help as in guidance. Last year was our rookie year - we learned what FIRST is and how the various kit parts work together. I had no idea what a mill was, I had no idea how CAD worked, I had no idea how to organize wiring as neatly as I learned. This year, with some guidance, we learned what CAN be done, and although doing it on your own has it's advantages, getting some help let us do what we never thought we could have done by ourselves. I think that's what FIRST is about.

On a side note, we also had tons of fun in the process ;-)
http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-misc_files/flame_pics/flame-fun1.jpg

WakeZero
02-24-2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Jeff Waegelin
Bins over the bar, hmmmm....? If I were building a stacker, that's the way I'd do it.

I am more scared of the bots that can act as a bridge OVER that bar you refer of :yikes:

DaBruteForceGuy
02-24-2003, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by joe gem
wat do u mean
well once we gave the program to the miller he put the program into the cnc(witch he said was the longest pat in the hole doing he said it took him 8 hours to put the program of the largest piece we gave him into the cnc) then like 2 days or less later we would get the finished piece. on one or two parts we had to give them bak to the miller to tweek. but nothing substantial.:D
Actually there was a lot of changes that had to be made to the parts. But the simple reason for this is even though we had inventor and cnc milling capabilities, we only had six weeks, and to make a perfect robot from inventor to finished model is impossible. We took a good 3-3 1/2 weeks to design it.....Tolerances were off slightly on a few pieces but only slightly. I must say though, having a cnc milling machine made the majority of the parts fall into place like a building block set. Now if only this one had assembly instructions:rolleyes:

RogerR
02-24-2003, 08:12 PM
Beutiful robot, of course. I'm curious as too what motors you guys used in the drive train and how fast the 'bot goes. Also did you reverse one of the drill motors so as to get an equal amount of power out of them?

EvilInside
02-25-2003, 10:50 AM
In reply to the outrageous comments made about team 810, I feel that I need too add. 810 has done an extremely good job at doing what they think the Spirit of FIRST is. M. Krass has made many statements about her standpoint on the Spirit of FIRST, and what 810 has done embodies those ideals. They have students learning, not just building a robot. Now, granted, they look to have the luck of a very supportive community and possibly large funds (Or even better support) but that isn't a fault. They should be congratulated for utilizing the money they have in such a productive manner. As for engineer built, the CNCing is not a complicated task. I'd be willing to wager that at least 3 people on that team, if given materials and a CNC, could have done what the mill shops did. I know we got lucky and 4 weeks into the competition a student joined that can mill just as good as anyone (and I mean anyone). Now, due to laziness on the funds team, we had extremely limited funding, but we don't mind. As for "engineer takeover" I've experienced the exact opposite: We had one of our two engineers and one of our three teachers not participate this year. Our single engineer welded, one teacher helped on electrical & programming, and one helped machine. The majority of the robot was designed by the students with some input from my dad, (who by the way doesn't have a degree in any form of engineering). Now, show me some pictures of your robot, and I can begin tearing you apart piece by piece if you really want, because an attitude like that deserves it.

Madison
02-25-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by RogerR
Beutiful robot, of course. I'm curious as too what motors you guys used in the drive train and how fast the 'bot goes. Also did you reverse one of the drill motors so as to get an equal amount of power out of them?

This season, our drivetrain is very, very simple; at least, by our standards.

If you're familiar with our drivetrain from last season, you'll understand that we focused exclusively on building a powerful, versatile design that brought us great success.

This season, we opted to focus on other parts of the robot, and we simplified the drivetrain slightly.

We're using the Bosch motors, mounted in the provided mounts. Their transmissions are locked in high gear. The output of the provided transmissions pass through a shift-on-the-fly transmission based heavily on the White Paper provided by Dave Lavery and Team 116 for a two motor, shifting transmission.

We decided tp use a single motor per side to save weight and because our strategy called for maneuverability over power.

Our top speed, after a 1:3 reduction from the motor's output shaft (1:1 in the transmission, then 1:3 with chain and sprockets) is approximately 8 ft/s. Our low speed, after a 1:9 reduction (1:3 in the transmission and 1:3 with chain and sprockets) is approximately 3 ft/s.

We didn't reverse the drill motors and we have corrected for offset in power with programming. Admittedly, however, we were very surprised to see just how noticeable the difference is.

AllenH
02-25-2003, 03:19 PM
Team 810

I hope to see you guys at one of our regionals and spend some time talkin to you. We are attending the Great Lakes and the midwest (along with nationals). My question for you is...what is the weight of the robot, and will you still be under weight with your numbers and covers and stuff. Thanks.

Allen