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Solace
03-01-2003, 07:35 PM
I was wondering - I've seen a couple teams that use large fabric sails to bush boxes around on the playing field. My question is (if these sheets are opaque) what will happen if a team using such sheets were to unfold them and position themselves directly in front of the oposing alliance's driver station, effectively destroying all visibility of the playing field? Would this be against the rules? (cause it would definitely make people not like you...)

I'm not pointing any fingers here - teams that have used sails most likely did not have this in mind when designing they're robots. I am only asking this question because i am concerned about a possible strategy that is (i think) currently allowed and would completely destroy the spirit of the competition.

Jeff Waegelin
03-01-2003, 07:38 PM
Delibrately obstructing the drivers' view is againts the rules. If the robot is on the ramp, it should be no problem, but directly in front of the drivers would be a no-no.

Madison
03-01-2003, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by Jeff Waegelin
Delibrately obstructing the drivers' view is againts the rules. If the robot is on the ramp, it should be no problem, but directly in front of the drivers would be a no-no.


If you still can't see, what's the difference?

Solace
03-01-2003, 07:41 PM
the difference would be that a robot on the ramp would obstruct the views of both alliances equally.

Solace
03-01-2003, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by Jeff Waegelin
Delibrately obstructing the drivers' view is againts the rules. If the robot is on the ramp, it should be no problem, but directly in front of the drivers would be a no-no.

But Is that stated in the rules?

Jeff Waegelin
03-01-2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by M. Krass
If you still can't see, what's the difference?

What do you mean? When I said that, I meant that doing it on the ramp serves a purpose (blocking and/or knocking bins down). Putting a sail in front of the drivers station is solely for the purpose of blocking the opposing teams' vision.

Andrew
03-01-2003, 08:19 PM
Although not strictly speaking against the rules, FIRST has ruled every year that deliberately obstructing a team's vision would not be "graciously professional."

I think it would be really unfortunate if such a tactic were employed against us; however, visibility is going to be a major issue this year and planning a counter strategy would be wise.

Madison
03-01-2003, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Jeff Waegelin
What do you mean? When I said that, I meant that doing it on the ramp serves a purpose (blocking and/or knocking bins down). Putting a sail in front of the drivers station is solely for the purpose of blocking the opposing teams' vision.

Well, if it is against the rules, specifically, to block an opposing alliance's view, where and how you do it ought not be irrelevant.

I don't know if it's actually in the rules, as such, though. It doesn't concern me enough to check.

If robots with sails use them to knock down bins, that's acceptable. If, however, they remain deployed and serve to block the view of the other alliance, I can't see how that is any different.

Jeff_Rice
03-01-2003, 08:27 PM
Blocking the vision of the opposing team would be totally against the spirit of gracious professionalism, or, as I put it, common decency. This has been brought up before, though I cannot find where.

But on a lighter note, I'm sure everyone has talked about it, at least jokingly. Anyway, it would be hard to drive around with a giant opaque sheet on your robot.

sevisehda
03-01-2003, 08:53 PM
That idea come up as much as jamming enemy bots radio. I thought that in previous years there was a rule against such visually blocking devices. However most teams have said their sails are semi-transparent. Also a large portion of these sails deploy then retract for the remainder of the match. Keeping them open would be an invitation for an anemy bot to tear it with an arm.

mynameisalex
03-09-2003, 02:38 PM
My team used large wings with black fabric, but that was planned only for making sure boxes went forward and didn't land on our controls. Then we discovered that it also blocked our opponents' vision when we were on top of the ramp, and we thought that was cool. I think it's OK, because we never parked right in front of the drivers; we stayed on top of the ramp. Their function was to protect the controls, while anything else was icing on the cake. Someone also got their revenge: our left wing had to be grommeted back together because somebody stuck a prong or something through it and tore it pretty nastily. It was cool, but far from indestructible.

mynameisalex
03-09-2003, 02:49 PM
If robots with sails use them to knock down bins, that's acceptable. If, however, they remain deployed and serve to block the view of the other alliance, I can't see how that is any different.

Our wings serve a double purpose: they're there to protect the controls, and the bottom frame is made of aluminum extrusion because we're a king-of-the-hill bot and have to hold our ground. We can't deploy them without the sail, so I think we're exonerated from any charges of viciousness or deliberately being nasty. Besides the fact that they're pretty...