FIRST vs. Engineering?

[JVN]

I was pondering this the other night, and I'm wondering if anyone else has any thoughts on it.

If you really enjoy participating in the FIRST robotics competition, and you get really into it, does it mean you want to do engineering? Or does it mean you just want to do FIRST all your life?

I've been trying to figure this out. I'm sure I like engineering, and I look forward to being an engineer (probably STILL doing FIRST) but I know other people who haven't made this decision.

What do you think?

[sanddrag]

A while back I wanted to be an engineer but now I've realized how much high-level math it uses and I've been starting to get sick of math. FIRST is the perfect thing for me. I can't think of anything to better occupy my time than building robots. Machining is really cool too and it's not very hard to learn.

[Richard Wallace]

I think FIRST does much more than just inspire some kids to study engineering in college. It teaches us all, even the old ones like me, to work with the time, talents, tools, and things that are available to us, to attack a challenge as a team. Of course technics is the central theme, but just as each person on a team brings a different contribution, each person takes away a unique lesson.

It is important to celebrate science and technology, because as Woody Flowers has said so many times, "we get the best of what we celebrate." But that celebration does not always lead to becoming an engineer, scientist, technician, machinist, mechanic, etc. It can also lead to becoming a better journalist, entrepenuer, artist, pilot, veterinarian, teacher,...(insert your favorite career here), than you would have been without the FIRST experience.

[Aaron Lussier]

Originally posted by JVN
If you really enjoy participating in the FIRST robotics competition, and you get really into it, does it mean you want to do engineering? Or does it mean you just want to do FIRST all your life?



This question really got me thinking, Do I compete in FIRST for the fun?, the Excitement?, the Trails and tribulations of building a robot?, or do I do it so I can become an engineer and think of cool stuff...? I belive that I have come to a good answer, When I first joined FIRST I thought "man I love this I'm gonna be an engineer" after two years of doing it I still want to be an engineer, but I also have noticed other things FIRST has helped me with other parts of my life too, I'm more organized, I speak better in front of people, I speak better too people. I can multi task like nobodys business and plus I have made friends that I'm gonna have for the rest of my life. All in all even if I dont go into Engineering I still have learned skills and tatics that I'm someday going to teach other students much like my self. I truly love FIRST and where ever I go, I will either find a team, to be on or If I need to make a team.

Now that I finished writing I'm not even sure that I answered the questions asked... oh well, I guess thats just how I feel about it:D

[soezgg]

I think my past experience has made me want to do engineering AND participate in FIRST for the rest of my life.

I think we all know why.

[Bruce C.]

FIRST wasn't around back then, but I decided in High School, back in the '60's, that I wanted to be an engineer. So I did. Went to Clarkson, as a matter of fact, BSEE 1970. It was a good thing.

Now, 33 years later, it's still a good thing. Although I picked up a couple of MBAs in the '80's, I still consider myself as primarily an engineer, and really enjoy working with FIRST. Science and technology is mostly FUN. And the math isn't really that bad (I can say that now, but please don't ask me to solve a partial differential problem right away, without some brushing up.):)

If you think designing the robots is as much fun as building them, go for engineering.

Regards,
Bruce C.

[Chris]

As the one john is talking about in the post, i've pondered this question tons. I'm a freshman mechie at Clarkson, with a 3.19 GPA and Assitant Team leader/Stratgey Head on the FIRST team. I'm a firster to the last, i pulled 7 allnighters with Mono during the 6 weeks because i wanted to see our bot completed to its full potential. But having not entered any engineering classes yet i'm not convinced engineering is for me, but i also have no idea what i would like to switch to.
This question haunts me sometimes, but i guess we'll see where i end up.

Chris

[George1902]

to me, the root of this issue is this: What is FIRST?

i get asked this question all the time by lots of different people, and here's the answer i give.

in high school, if you really like athletics, you can play football, baseball or such. if you like music you can be in marching or concert band. if you like english you can be in journalism. what is there for the kids who like math and science? really, there are only so many quiz bowl competitions a kid can handle. so, there's FIRST, an extra curricular activity for cultivating math and science.

now to answer your question more directly, does being in FIRST mean you want to be an engineer? most certainly not! my experience in FIRST is probably the reason i'm *NOT* in school for engineering now. i saw what the job entailed and decided that it wasn't what i wanted to do with my life.

i got something totally different from my FIRST experience. to me the spirit of FIRST is all about sharing. during the 6 week build period, you share yourself with the 5, 10, 20, or 50 other people on your team. at the competition, you share your creation with everyone who watches your 'bot play the game. and the whole while we're involved in this concept of sharing called gracious professionalism. so, i took that to heart and decided to share knowlege for a living. i'm in school now to be a high school math teacher.

so... um... where was i? oh yeah... so, no. of course you don't have to be in engineering or even like engineering if you like FIRST. i think the thing to do is to find what it is about FIRST that you like so much and find a way to get paid for doing that the rest of your life.

someone really smart once said, "If you find a job you love, you'll never work a day in your life."

[ChrisH]

Originally posted by George1083
now to answer your question more directly, does being in FIRST mean you want to be an engineer? most certainly not! my experience in FIRST is probably the reason i'm *NOT* in school for engineering now. i saw what the job entailed and decided that it wasn't what i wanted to do with my life.

Sometimes finding out what the answer is not, is just as valuable as finding what it is. Our team is focused on helping our students find their "calling" in life. For some of them it is Engineering of some sort, for others it may be Graphics or /holds nose/ Journalism or /gets gas mask/ Law. We really don't care too much about where they wind up, as long as they are doing something useful. It's just that much easier if it is somethjing they are well suited to and enjoy.

Originally posted by George1083
someone really smart once said, "If you find a job you love, you'll never work a day in your life."

This is so true, well time to go back to playing at building airplanes.;)

[Amanda Morrison]

I really think that FIRST inspires some to go into engineering fields and some to stay involved with the organization. It all depends on the person and where their interests lie.

Personally, I am terrible in math and science. I have never had technical inclinations, and I've had no previous experience dealing with any of the typical robot components. To be honest, I'm an English/Journalism major.

A lot of people ask me if I plan on going into engineering, science, and technology based on my mentorship of the Muncie, IN team. Some of my teachers can't fathom my involvement with the team, and I get a lot of confused looks when I try to explain.

All I can really say is that I got involved in FIRST, I had a great mentor, and I wish that I could be half the mentor he was. On a not-so-technical aspect, I think that's one of the underlying themes of FIRST.

[Joe Matt]

Doing FIRST dosn't mean engineering. There is still other Science and Technolog carieers that don't fit.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally posted by ChrisH
[B]Sometimes finding out what the answer is not, is just as valuable as finding what it is. /B]

No doubt about it. As mentors or teachers we are just as successful with students who decide engineering or science is not for them. That is why Wildstang puts emphasis on other sub teams as well. If you don't like drilling holes and getting dirty then maybe you like web design or fundraising or video editing. Perhaps t-shirt design, or yearbook authoring, or public relations is more your bag. If you graduate and didn't like anything about FIRST, you will have at least eliminated 10-20 career choices from your list that won't need to be investigated.
For me, there is no doubt that it helps my work by training me to look at things differently, think outside the box and communicate better with people who initially don't understand what I am saying. (Did you ever try to explain a 60 input, 48 track recording console to an underwriter for a cooking show?)

Sanddrag, the math isn't that hard. It's just a tool, like a screwdriver or soldering iron. Sure you get tired of picking up the same old thing everyday, but when you have to tighten a screw you still reach for the screwdriver. Don't let something like that hold you back. There are careers that you can pursue that may not have a dependence on math if you really don't like it. Check with your guidance counselor.
As for Chris's quote, it's a good one, I have always said this..."If you can get a job doing what you like, great! If they pay you then that is even better!"

[ZACH P.]

i know i pretty much always wanted to be an engineer, and i built robots by myself, so i thought First would be a good opportunity to learn, to help others, and to have fun doing it. so for me First is a product of wanting to be an engineer.

[unixfreak]

When I first started Robotics my freshman year in HS,
I enjoyed Robotics and what I did in it so much, I said
to myself... If this is what I like to do, I must want to be
an engineer. And this year, My second year in
High School and Robotics, I started to think about what
engineering really is. I look at robotics, you do everything....
I look at engineering, and you mostly design and oversee others
that are doing the grunt work. Now, I may be wrong about this, but
that is the impression I get from people I know that are going into or
are already in Engineering. If Engineering was like first in the fact that you design, build, and everything, I would definatly be an Engineer. I definatly dont think just because your in robotics it means that you have to go into engineering. Thats my $ .02:D

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally posted by unixfreak

I look at engineering, and you mostly design and oversee others that are doing the grunt work. Now, I may be wrong about this, but that is the impression I get from people I know that are going into or are already in Engineering. If Engineering was like first in the fact that you design, build, and everything, I would definatly be an Engineer. I definatly dont think just because your in robotics it means that you have to go into engineering. Thats my $ .02:D
What you describe is true for large companies because it is more efficient, but smaller companies require more of their engineers. And certainly, engineers must work on prototypes and production testing, etc. If you think you want to perform any of these, I challenge you to talk to other engineers and use your school resources to check on other engineering careers. Use the Internet and watch for career days at local colleges where you can talk to employers. Don't let the frustrations of a few engineers determine your life for you. And you are right, if you like robotics, being an engineer might not be exactly right for you, but there are hundreds of careers that will support engineering and many are technically related. My degree is in Electronic Engineering and Technology, EET, and was designed to bridge the gap between theoretical engineering and real world production. (i.e. take what the EE designed and work out the bugs for production and sales.) What I accidentally wound up in is Broadcast Engineering. I am part of the "Broadcast Maintenance and Design Group" of a television station in Chicago and I maintain, design and install all equipment used by the station from microphones through video recorders and up to the transmitter. Be patient and keep your mind open, you will find something that suits you. Please plan on going on to some form of education following high school. Keep your grades up now and it will pay off for you when you do come to a decision.

[ChrisH]

To continue Al's coments:

I am an engineer working for a large aerospace corporation. I figure out how to build parts from composite materials like graphite epoxy and fiberglass. While I do not participate in day to day production, I do spend fair amount of time actually working with the materials and doing my own stuff.

A typical scenario:
Some bright boy in design figures out that it would be a lot cheaper to build the airplane if we could bond the structure to the inlet duct, rather than shooting lot of fasteners through the duct wall at $80 a pop. Somebody (yours truly among others) is detailed to figure out how to do this. The duct is a large structure, 10 ft long (remember this is a fighter aircraft, large is relative). To convincingly demonstrate it the demo article needs to be close to the same size and complexity as the "real" structure.

So a group of us get together, develop a concept, design a mold to fabricate the concept, order materials to do the demo, and start the mold fabrication which will take about six months. While waiting for the mold we try and resolve all those nagging little issues we said "that's a no-brainer" to during concept development. When the tool finally arrives, a small army of engineers and technicians decend on it and working side by side crank out a part or two. With a little luck it turns out gorgeous, the customer is impressed, they buy the airplane and now we get to do it "for real". (OMG! they bought it, now we have to deliver:ahh: )

So out of a year program I probably spent 8 weeks actually building a part, but I also helped design the tooling used, probably helped build some of it, and figured out how to do innumerable support operations. If I had spent all my time working with the material, none of the "other stuff" essential to the program's success would have happened.

Yes I spend a lot of time in meetings, but mostly it is holding back the designers so they don't draw something that can't be built. That is not a task that can be done by the shop technicians, they don't generally understand the stress guy's langauge well enough to convince him that "That's not a good idea because..." If the shop guys could argue with stress and win they'd have my job and somebody else would be building parts, because keeping the design guys in line is a full time job by itself.

So there are engineering jobs out there that require "hands on" expertise, even in big companies. I just happen to be lucky enough to have one of them. :D