Practice Fields at Nats?

[D@ve]

Does any one know if theres going to a practice feild set up at Nats. We had one at BAE Reginal and i gotta say that every team there benefited from it. It might be a good idea for teams in Texas to set up some fieilds in the massive parking lot at the stadium Maybe a good idea .. if we are alowd . What do you all think?

[Travis Hoffman]

We brought half of our ramp and a 12x24 piece of new carpet with us to Pittsburgh, but the venue staff wouldn't let us set it up. We intended to give everyone free access to it, but oh well. Since we are driving our trailer down to Texas, I'll check with the Team 48 powers-that-be and see if we can take the ramp setup with us.

[Ryan Albright]

if i can remeber correctly dont the have practice fields set up already

[Gope]

They did not have any last year, and i suspeect that they will not this year either beccause scheduling practice times becomes a real problem as it tends to conflict with match times and the likes.

[Kyle Fenton]

Originally posted by Ryan_team710
if i can remeber correctly dont the have practice fields set up already

No no not the official fields. What Dave is talking about is a small field in the pits that you robot was connected via tether and you could test auto programs, your robot, etc.

It was an extremely valuable resource to get our robot working probably. I am hoping that some people would bring there field for other people to use.

[Ryan Albright]

ya i know i just thought it was set up by first but i guess not sorry i am a little slow as long as we have somewhere to practice

[D@ve]

really this could be vital to some teams who havent yet got there auto program down. if some one can find out if there is nothin wrong with setting up a feild in the parking lot that would be great.

They set up tents and boths there all the time for football games.

[Natchez]

Everyone,

If you post 10 good reasons to have a medium-fidelity full-size practice field (ramp, carpet, and NO border rails) AND 10 good ways to make access fair to all teams, I'll be more than happy to bring it to FIRST's attention. We've talked about this but to have an "official" practice field could turn into a nightmare.

Here's my favorite reason: Having a practice field in the middle of the pits would allow visitors to get a real "behind the scenes" look at what the teams are doing. It would be as much of an exhibit as it would be a practice field.

Thanks,
Lucien

P.S. It was sunny and 60 degrees in Houston today ... sure to be 100 degrees by April 10:cool:

[SkitzoSmurf]

Lucien,

I think that a practice field within the pits in nats would be absolutely fantastic. Do I dare say maybe even a couple due to the size of nationals? I think there should be some basic rules to the fields, like safety glasses at all times, and no working on robot within the field, but it would be great. I think it would be best if tethers were not a necessity however, but just an idea. Let me attempt to think of 10 good reasons.

1. Behind the scenes view for spectators, (YOINK!!!)
2. Less Dangerous to test the robot. I know that our robot has some powerful pneumatic wings and when we had problems, hooking them up was very dangerous, because if they flew out, people could get a nice smack. So I'm sure were not the only team, but it would be less dangerous to test certain robot features.
3. Autonomous Programming - A team that isn't quite sure of their autonomous programming doesnt want to have to wait until an actual match to see if it works. On the practice field it would enable to teams to perfect these programs, leading to a better competition.
4. Human Player Practice - Sorry, but many people overlook the human players, and they need credit. They should be able to practice in realistic settings.
5. Driving Practice - Certain teams with complicated drive trains could spend the whole 6 weks building and working on the robot, without any actual driving practice. This would enable teams to practice, once again leading to a better competition.
6. Pre-Match practice - A team who has a strategy for qualification rounds would most likey like to test the settings. You can talk and scheme all you would like to, but its the actual running of the robot that matters, if teams could collaborate and practice with eachother prior to matches, it could once again lead to a better competition.
7. Crowding of the pits - While in the pits at ANY competition the pits can get VERY crowded. If teams are scouting you, and you just want to be left alone, because ur working on something very important, rather than just be unavailable, you could tell the team member your practice time, and they can see for themselves what ur robot's about.
8. Custom Activities - some teams have had little competitions or tests during nationals. One thing that I remember from last year is the traction test given by the SPAM team, they had to set up outside, and I think had to use asphalt for it, giving them a better facilitation area would be great
9. JUDGING - If somehow a team could incorporate a time where judges would come to see their robot in action while being interviewed it would be fantastic. Like if your robot has a special feature, a demonstration might be better than an interview. As your robot performs a task you can talk of the components used, how u did it, why u did it and so forth. This would be too kool.
10. Team Photos - Some of the best phtographs i have ever seen come from a FIRST event. the photo documents your time during a competition. Sometimes winning alliances are able to use the playing field for photos, but I have never seen other award winners use it, or semifinalists, I think this would be fantastic. I would love to see more photos
And just in case that isnt good enough, heres a BONUS
WERE BEGGING YOU!!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE !!!!

I came up with the reasons why, some one else come up with how to make it fair, TEAMWORK PEOPLE!!!
-Talon

[Johca_Gaorl]

1. Gracious Professionalism - Teams should be able to realize when they have been on the field too long, and give up their spot, and we would hopefully be able to run a practice field w/o any other setup.
2. Have a place where teams can sign up for certain slots. The amount of slots available for each team would depend on how many fields there were available, obviously, if we have 1 field for 200+ teams, you aren't going to be able to have a bunch of practice.
3. Each slot would be 15 minutes, i.e. about 10 minutes to practice and 5 minutes to get on and off. This would be similar to practice rounds at the regionals.
4. Multiple fields. This would be ideal, as you would have more practice time. More practice = better prepared teams = more exciting competitions. We could have fields for certain divisions, though I think it would be better to just have a bunch for everyone, then you could practice with teams you may end up in the finals with.
5. You must be waiting for your practice time by the end of the practice before yours. Otherwise, your spot is gone, and someone there may take it.
6. Missing practice - if you miss your practice time (because match times end up off, and you signed up for the wrong time or something) and someone is there waiting, they may take your place. If there is some kind soul that wishes to keep track of this, you may be allowed to sign up for a different practice later. Otherwise, I'd have to say you are just out of luck.

Alright, I'm out for now, if I think of any more, I'll add them, some help please!

[mtrawls]

Hahaha... Pneumonia sucks ... I like that, Jac.

Anyway, I believed you asked for help, or something like that. So, as to how to make the process fair

(7) Well, a lot of people don't *need* the extra practice field. Sure it would be nice, but explain to them that (a) if it can wait to one of their practice matches or (b) if it can be done elsewhere (i.e., without a playing field replica), then they shouldn't take up resources. Perhaps ask the team why they need the field, and some sort of overbearing political power could validate the response? (by the way, that was a joke)

(8) Conceivably the majority of practice would be testing the autonomous program. Two (possibly four) teams could go essentially at the same time. One team runs their robot, and something goes wrong (well, that's what happens with the autonomous mode). While they make the appropriate changes in the code, the next teams runs their robot. This process repeats itself for a predetermined time frame before new robots are allowed on the field. (As soon as one robot is finished, another one can take its place also.) Also, programmers from other teams could stand by and offer assistance to rookie teams (or anyone that happens to need it).

(9) Find another place that's big enough and put some tape down. Not everyone will need a ramp, and point this out to teams/refer them to this place (or another if they can find one).

(10) Hmm... 10 is a big number. I sure wish you weren't using the decimal system when you wrote that number (refer to my signature for an alternative suggestion). Well, the only thing that can completely make it fair is to put me in charge of it. If I like it, then it can't be wrong. Of course I'll need an iron fist, and everyone will have to transfer power of attorney to me to make my plans work out. ... ... or if all else fails and there's just too many people that need it, and it becomes a bottleneck, then conceivably, I suppose, some sort of raffle system could be created.

Hmm.. a safety thought. Whatever team that does this (if it were to happen at all) would need to make sure they have switches using the competition port to disable a robot in the event of something dangerous happening.

Oh, and special emphasis to the number one rule -- Gracious Profesionalism. I thought it was worth pointing out again.

[evulish]

To keep the practice field available...I'd have one staff member assigned to the practice area. They would roughly time each team and tell them to pack it up after 5 minutes or so of testing. If there's no one waiting for the field at that time, I'd let them stay as long as they want...or at least until another team showed up wanting to test something.

[redbeard0531]

In Chesapeake, we had a wooden ramp and carpet set up. It was a great help to get our auto woorking. The ony problem was that it was a 2/3 ramp, with carpet on only 1 side, and was very easy to move. If they do this at nats, I hope the use a full ramp, and more carpet.

[SkitzoSmurf]

So Lucien, are you going to run this by FIRST? I would really like to see this idea be put to the test.

[Collin Fultz]

wasn't there a practice field last year set up behind the grandstands for the outside field? i would believe that the same type of thing will be set up...

[sevisehda]

If I remeber BAE had less than 40 teams while Nats will have a few hundred. They would have to set up a number of fields or else it would just cause more problems. Part of the challenge is to build the bot in the time allowed. It's not FIRSTs responsibility to provide extras to teams who haven't finished in time. For teams who haven't finished autonomous mode I'm sure there will be an open area where they can figure out deadreckoning timings. If said teams wanted to have a line-fallower or other system then they should of finished it during the build period. I don't mean to be harsh but in FIRST there are time constraints just like in real engineering.

[Natchez]

Great input! We're working on it.

(PLEASE note that I am NOT an official of FIRST and the following statement is not an official statement BUT ...)

I would encourage any teams that have extra room in their transportation vehicles to bring their ramps and carpets. There will be a lot of room at the Reliant Complex BUT we must respect how busy FIRST is right now trying to operate all of the Regionals along with finalizing all of the details for Nationals. Please email me at Lucien.Junkin@jsc.nasa.gov and I'll keep track of what will be coming. I'll continue to work with FIRST to try to get a dedicated space for a few medium fidelity arenas.

Thanks & no promises,
Lucien

[J2Kraatz]

That would be a good idea for a practice field at the nationals.

[Stephen Kowski]

Yes we (HeatWave) set up a practice field last year at nats for everyone to practice on and we brought one to UCF with us this year, but we cannot haul it with us to Houston.....sry :(

[Powers]

yeah, the heatwave practice field was awesome, too bad it got absolutely soaked after the first day and the carpet wasnt too usual in AI programming, but i saw many a team out there on the field

[Lloyd Burns]

At the Canadian Regional, there was a parking lot at the back, out a roll-up door. You could drive your robot out the door, and "practice" on a rug you might have brought - until they told all teams on the second morning that we weren't allowed to leave the building with the robot ! Just as well, since it drizzled the second and third days.

This had to have been the arena - anyone connected with a robot knows that the contest improves when every team's machine is working at its best.



At this same arena, there was an 8 am bag search for team members entering to go to their pits - not looking for bombs - but searching for people bringing in the dreaded "OUTSIDE FOOD", so you would have to buy from the stands inside.

[Stephen Kowski]

both times we have brought a field it has been rained on thursday night....last time we just threw out the carpet cause it was like 3 yrs old, but this one we are gonna have to dry out and reuse...:(

[LSevcik]

Hi All! Just to let you know we are WAY AHEAD of you guys and THERE WILL BE a practice field available to teams at the Championship event. FIRST contacted me late last week and Team 57 will bring its playing field. Is one enough? No, why you ask? Everything is bigger in Texas! So, Lucien could team #118 bring its field as well. Take care and we'll see you in Houston. Lucia-Regional Director for Texas