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View Full Version : Intelligence and fear


Trashed20
03-19-2003, 09:57 PM
I have read many posts about teams being pulled out because of fears from the school boards or superintendents. I am sure that these people are fairly educated and competent citizen but i believe they are acting completely stupid. They are saying that just because something may happen that you should put your plans on hold. It is like not driving cause you could get in an accident or not walking because you could rip and fall. Life has risks involved in it and people take them everyday. Now an event comes along that most likely will not affect you directly and people freak out. People are hiding in their houses and altering their lives. Life is about taking chances, not wishing you did. Living is doing something productive and creative. A rock can sit there and feel sorry for itself and it's situation. We have brains and we have motivation. I believe that if anyone tells you to change your plans because of this that you should tell them why they shouldn't. You can be afraid, just don't dwell in it. I urge all of you that are being forced to cower to fight for normal living and life as you know it from day to day. Mind games only work if you let them. We are all smarter than that :)

Ian W.
03-19-2003, 10:19 PM
Yes, but if the school board says no, what chance do the students have? None. Believe me, I tried to fight the choice, but I was shot down before I even got out of the room. Everyone's concerned about terrorists hijacking another plane and making another "9/11" which, if you ask me, is the last thing they'll try, just because it's been done before, and it's much harder to accomplish something that large now. If anything, you're safer flying than sitting at home.

But, as I said, us students have no say when the school board comes in, so we sit there and are forced to accept the outcome. Don't you love high school?

fox46
03-19-2003, 10:53 PM
Its not as if someone has tied you to a pole, just sign out of school, and GO TO THE COMPETITION! Just because a bunch of beaurocrats think that there could be a risk, means absolutely nothing.

Yes, but if the school board says no, what chance do the students have? None. Believe me, I tried to fight the choice, but I was shot down before I even got out of the room

Don't fight, just say ok, and go to the competition anyway!
Each of us has spent six weeks working day and night, spending thousands of dollars. Our sweat and blood have gone into our robots (literally). We have a right to see our hard work pay off!

Then again, that's just me...

mtaman02
03-19-2003, 10:59 PM
i think the NYC BOE (Board of Education) has banned any out going flights to another country for Competitions. might even have banned outbound flights to other states i'll talk to the leaders of 522 to see what has been said for the NYC Regionals

DanL
03-20-2003, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by fox46
Its not as if someone has tied you to a pole, just sign out of school, and GO TO THE COMPETITION! Just because a bunch of beaurocrats think that there could be a risk, means absolutely nothing.

Don't fight, just say ok, and go to the competition anyway!
Each of us has spent six weeks working day and night, spending thousands of dollars. Our sweat and blood have gone into our robots (literally). We have a right to see our hard work pay off!

Then again, that's just me...

Yeah, we're doing that for SBPLI... I'm getting pulled out of school early and going there. However, I don't think this is going to work for our planned San Jose regional... a trip to the other coast is a bit more invovled than just signing out of school and going.

WakeZero
03-20-2003, 12:57 AM
The day we let terrorists instill terror in us, is the day that they have won.

I for one will not live in fear ;)

Lord Nerdlinger
03-20-2003, 02:29 AM
how does the school have any control over it? Just have the students call in sick, and go to the competition. For complaining about "stupid school systems" you aren't thinking to creatively here.

David Kelly
03-20-2003, 08:22 AM
at our school, that can be called truancy and that calls for 4 days suspension. but i dont think our school would say no to our trips

jrgrim12
03-20-2003, 08:50 AM
I wouldn't suggest breaking rules to go to the natationals. i would suggest playing thier game. Go talk to your parents and have them sign waivers and petitions. Get other property owners in your area to sign them also. The school board is made up of people your parents and other property owners voted for and they need to listen to them. They won't listen to you. They should!!! but they won't. Talk to your government teachers and see what you can do. This is part of FIRST also. You need use your brain in a mature way and show them that you know what you are doing. If you go through the right channels they have to listen to you. Get your sponsor involved. They also have a right to all of your sponsors. They purchased advertising space on your robot and have the right to have it seen. This isn't just about the students. Remember GET involved but make sure you use Gracious Proffessionalism.

Koko Ed
03-20-2003, 08:50 AM
Intellegence and fear are direct opposites of each other.
Intelligence derives from knowledge of the situation while fear is the product of uncertainty.
If the school officials had a crystal ball and knew that nothing would happen to the kids they would have no problem with you guys going to the regionals and the championship but you are their primary concern and the focus of their jobs.
It's real easy to smack on them and label them weaklings and idiots for doing this but ask yourself this: If you were in their position, would you make the same choice and are you willing to stand up for the consequences of your choice?
It's real easy to pass judgment on others when you are not in position to make the calls.

ChrisH
03-20-2003, 09:15 AM
Here's a real example,

One day a friend of mine, who is a stress analyst, was complaining to a Navy representative about a design requirement. This requirement was that the airplane had to be able to withstand a very rare but severe condition in flight. It was also the driving requirement for much of the aircraft design.

Her argument was. "While this condition has been seen in other aircraft, it has never been seen in ours. So why is it driving our design?"

The Navy guy responded. "When we were designing other aircraft this condition was unknown. As a result, on the rare occasions it occurs, it destroys the aircraft and usually kills the crew as well. Do you want to have to be the one who makes that visit to the new widow? Neither do I, not if it can be prevented"

Schools and school boards are faced with a similar choice. If "something" should happen while you are travelling they and your parents will spend the rest of their lives saying "If only...". They don't want that and I don't blame them.

I don't agree with their choice at this point, but I understand it. I certainly can't condemn it. Like the argument about stacks, it is a question they have to decide for themselves what is appropriate and live with the consequences.

BTW about a year after the above conversation, we had the first occurance of that condition on one of our airframes. The aircraft had some minor damage, but was still flyable and the crew came home. It made all the extra work worthwhile.

Some things can only be revealed by time.

Matthew936
03-20-2003, 09:18 AM
This is the real question. Most of the people on the school boards are fairly certain that nothing will happen to the students if they go. They also know that the students are willing to take the risk involved in traveling. Here lies the problem there are some people in any community with nothing better to do than to find a cause and defend it. Even if that cause only causes trouble. The problem is that these individuals are the ones who let the world know how they feal and they often vote in large percentages. Now these often uninformed people usually worry about anything that can go wrong. The members of the school board must deal with them often and quite frankly don't enjoy it. So the members rather than deal with these people decide that it is better just to do what they want rather than look at what is best for the students. Is this wrong? No, because they are representing the interests of those that they hear loudest from. Unless you plan on taking not just yourselves, but many voters as you can, then things will not change. If the community will support you then the Board will allow you to go for fear of thier jobs.

EvilInside
03-20-2003, 10:47 AM
They way I see it, the school board should not even be considering the issue. At all, ever. It is a waste of their time, because ultimately it is the parent's and the child's decision to go. So, if I were in your situation, I would go to the competition anyway, and if they complained or gave me a 4 day suspension, I would formally invite them to bite me, and then just hang out here for four days :ahh:

Team238-aholic
03-20-2003, 12:30 PM
They way I see it, the school board should not even be considering the issue. At all, ever. It is a waste of their time, because ultimately it is the parent's and the child's decision to go. So, if I were in your situation, I would go to the competition anyway, and if they complained or gave me a 4 day suspension, I would formally invite them to bite me, and then just hang out here for four days


hahahaha thats great and i totally agree...

Katie Reynolds
03-20-2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Lord Nerdlinger
how does the school have any control over it? Just have the students call in sick, and go to the competition. For complaining about "stupid school systems" you aren't thinking to creatively here. That would work great, if the school wasn't paying for it!

Hehe ... I think it would be kind of suspicious if twenty kids called in sick for 5 days, along with two teachers and the school didn't get a refund for the trips ... hmmmm ... ;)

So far, though, we're ok. The school board just OKed trips to Spain, France, Germany and Australia, so I think we're ok going to Houston!

- Katie

KenWittlief
03-20-2003, 01:27 PM
Maybe something good will come out of this situation.

Maybe in the next few years we will see an upsurge in smaller, local regionals, hosted at local colleges, on a smaller scale.

Why would this be a good thing? Most teams spend most of their budget on travel and lodging to attend regionals and the championship.

It only costs $5k to register/attend your first regional, thats not a lot of money really. But if you have to travel out of your city to attend, you can tack another $10,000 on that (bus, hotel, meals...)

If there were more local regionals, then many more schools can have teams. All you would need to start a team then is the $5,000 registration fee, one teacher from your school to sign up, a couple engineers, and 5 or more students to participate.

As for going to an event that has been cancelled by your school - you would have to get your own transportation, your own hotel rooms, your own meals. Dont forget that many teams are funded by joint agreements between corporations and school districts. If the school board says the trip is cancelled this year, and the corporation took any/all students to the event anyway, that would be the END of that team next year.

If your school cancels your trip, and your parents can drive you to the event, and get a hotel room for you - your Bot is going to be in the pit on thrusday morning anyway, right - but if you decide to ignore the schools wishes you better make sure nobody in the school board finds out about it.

Dont be selfish and attend a regional against the wishes of your school board, if it means the END OF YOUR FIRST TEAM AT YOUR SCHOOL FOREVER!

This is a very difficult time for our nation. Everyone is making sacrifices - some are putting their lives on the line - in perspective, missing ONE FIRST event is a small price to pay.

If your school board cancels your trip, it might seem stupid to you, but please respect their decision and authority.

Koko Ed
03-20-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by KenWittlief
Maybe something good will come out of this situation.

Maybe in the next few years we will see an upsurge in smaller, local regionals, hosted at local colleges, on a smaller scale.

Why would this be a good thing? Most teams spend most of their budget on travel and lodging to attend regionals and the championship.

It only costs $5k to register/attend your first regional, thats not a lot of money really. But if you have to travel out of your city to attend, you can tack another $10,000 on that (bus, hotel, meals...)

If there were more local regionals, then many more schools can have teams. All you would need to start a team then is the $5,000 registration fee, one teacher from your school to sign up, a couple engineers, and 5 or more students to participate.

As for going to an event that has been cancelled by your school - you would have to get your own transportation, your own hotel rooms, your own meals. Dont forget that many teams are funded by joint agreements between corporations and school districts. If the school board says the trip is cancelled this year, and the corporation took any/all students to the event anyway, that would be the END of that team next year.

If your school cancels your trip, and your parents can drive you to the event, and get a hotel room for you - your Bot is going to be in the pit on thrusday morning anyway, right - but if you decide to ignore the schools wishes you better make sure nobody in the school board finds out about it.

Dont be selfish and attend a regional against the wishes of your school board, if it means the END OF YOUR FIRST TEAM AT YOUR SCHOOL FOREVER!

This is a very difficult time for our nation. Everyone is making sacrifices - some are putting their lives on the line - in perspective, missing ONE FIRST event is a small price to pay.

If your school board cancels your trip, it might seem stupid to you, but please respect their decision and authority.

Finally a voice of reason.

John Prather
03-20-2003, 06:16 PM
I agree that you should respect the decision of your school board. They only are doing what they think is best.

Although this would be really hard right now, with the war I mean, you could tell a news station about it and get the public to hear about it. The school board might give in. That is if you can even get the news station to talk to you. Again it would not always be best to go against the school board since they can end your team right now if they wanted to.

The more they take away from us now. The more they are taking away from the future of the fighting power and the technology that our country is using overseas right now. If they can't see that we are the people that will be designing the next generations weapons for situations like we are in now, then they will hurt in the long run!

We are the future!!!!!!!!!!!

redbeard0531
03-20-2003, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Katie Reynolds
That would work great, if the school wasn't paying for it!



I know our school doesn't give us any money! We got a room that was condemed, and we had to repair it , and pay for the repairs. Of course the football team gets tens of thousands of dollars, and we have yet to see one *&()(*&)*& red cent!

Sorry if this seems angry but I think it is extreemly unfair of the schools. Luckely they wouldnt dream of not letting us go, they no that we wouldnt care. We put our sweet and blood into this robot and we are going to compete with it!

Jeff_Rice
03-20-2003, 06:35 PM
Anyone up for a flu virus genetically engineered to infect only robotics members? ;)

Just have your team "get sick" wednesday, thursday and friday. All you have to do is have your parents excuse your absence.
The school board can't touch you.

I know this was mentioned, but does the school really pay for it? The students do, through hard work. I believe the majority of teams get nothing from their schools, and if they do get something, who's to say it wasn't used for the bot?

Anyway, it is wrong of the schoolboards to cancel these trips.
They probably know it.
Its not like any other sport where there's always another game, another chance.
It's like life.
Carpe Diem.

Libel
03-20-2003, 11:18 PM
geez, is new york usually that conservative or is it just your school board???