View Full Version : Who will win at Nationals?!?
So, the time comes this season when we must ask the question of all questions: Who will win at Nationals? Lets hear your reason and lets get a variety of robots that could win. (because after all this game is very unpredictable).
Wayne C.
31-03-2003, 17:32
I predict the Nats winner will come out of the Rutgers Regional in NJ. Nuff said....
I predict rookie teams will be big contenders
Wayne C.
31-03-2003, 17:40
You are probably right. This year the game is much more friendly to rookies and they might do well-
Ok- I revise my prediction- a team from NJ partnered with a rookie (preferably also from NJ)
WC:D
Brandon Martus
31-03-2003, 17:41
And I'll remind everyone to put your [points] where your mouth is. Head on over to the Chief Delphi Ventures System (http://ventures.chiefdelphi.com/) and place those bets.
:)
Wayne C.
31-03-2003, 17:44
Gee Brandon- I'm not really a betting man- I don't have enough hair left for it!!
WC:cool:
226, partnered with other robots we've been with in the past
FotoPlasma
31-03-2003, 18:21
Everyone.
Mike Schroeder
31-03-2003, 18:26
Originally posted by Wayne C.
Gee Brandon- I'm not really a betting man- I don't have enough hair left for it!!
WC:cool:
okay many people might noto know about this, but when our team won the nats in 2000, Before hand Mr. Cokeley made the bet that he would shave his head if we won, and we got Good Morning America to Televise his head shaving on his show
So Mr. C care to put your hair where ur mouth is?
David Lantz
31-03-2003, 18:30
Originally posted by FotoPlasma
Everyone.
I have to agree.:D :cool:
Although I believe that my team will do slightly beter that others.
I think that this year will be won by a two veteran team with a rookie/second year partner.
Aaron Lussier
31-03-2003, 18:49
229 is gonna take it all with an under the bar stacker and a strong rookie defender
One of those "blazing fast" autonomous utility bots, possibly a stacker, will pair off with an amazing blocker/drivetrain bot to take it all.
Example...
16 and 45... BBS cruises up the ramp and clears the way. 45 comes up from behind with the follow through.
I predict the winning alliance will consist of two of the "big boy" teams from FIRST. You guys know who I'm talking about... The ones whose names we all know and love. Whatever two of these teams match up together will take it all.
Overall... best guess...
I think 217 will take it all. They're gonna seed high in their division, and pick a powerhouse alliance.
(I'd LOVE to be the 3rd pick of such an alliance :D )
Todd Derbyshire
31-03-2003, 19:58
Personally I'm hoping for 47, and 88. We've been friends for a while now and for once I would like to partner with them.
i dont know who will win, but if 710 (us) makes it to nationals (waiting list), we will do much better than we ever have before, we may not get much press on CD, we may not have fans b/c of a small team, but I feel we are strong enough to put on a show
Hailfire
31-03-2003, 20:04
The world may never know. :D But this year there has been a lot of good bots out there. Hope the National Competitions will be more challenging though.
shawny963
31-03-2003, 20:08
i guarantee it will be an alliance similar to ours, 930, 65, and 16 at midwest. Two blazingly fast and strong veterans, with a very robust 2nd year or rookie. Our alliance took the bins everytime with our auto modes. Baxter hit the bins in under 3 seconds, 65 in 4 seconds, and we followed up with 5 seconds. I think the midwest outcome would have been different if 16 wouldnt have lost radio connection in the first finals match. Oh, by the way, we flipped beatty two matches in a row. Now what do you all think about that alliance.
Originally posted by FotoPlasma
Everyone. That's what I was going to say. There are tons of excellent teams out there.
Greg Needel
31-03-2003, 20:50
I firmly believe it the winning alliance will include a good consistent stacker and 2 good tank bots
Matt McNelley
31-03-2003, 21:38
Shawny, I like the alliance we had at Midwest too. A fantastic combination, and all of you were great. We too, wish we hadn't lost our radio... Maybe things will go better for nationals.
ryanspensley
31-03-2003, 21:58
What about the St Louis Winning Alliance of #171 and #650!?!
Etbitmydog
31-03-2003, 22:11
You know what. Somebody should make fantasy robotics. You get to pick your teams and then you get points on how well they did.
Anyways, IF I had a fantasy team, my all stars would be 111, 71, and 68.
I'm thinking the multipliers will probably be super important and 71 has that over the top arm slash scooper arm. Over top could KILL stacks. PLus they can take horeds of boxes and shove them to the sides quick so the other team can't get points. How can you loose!
Plus, 68 has a lot of speed and power and it another robot manages to get all the boxes to one side, it'll just sweep them to the end fast and other team gets 0 pts from boxes.
It all revolves around 111 though. They have a killer robot with a very unique idea. You can't get to teh multiplier you can't win :) If any of these robots were on my for sure list it'd have to be wildstang. I love this robot.
Thus there you have it. My fantasy robotics team. :)
Good luck!!
P.S. No rookies chosen :( sorry
sevisehda
31-03-2003, 22:32
The best alliance...
Seriously, the alliance who is the best constructed. Someone mentioned a stacker and 2 tanks. I've said from the begining stacking was of minimal importance. There have been few bot constructed stacks that actually scored. The vast majority of matches end in a 1 multiplier and the rest with a human player stack. My perfect alliance would be 1 amazing fast and reliable wall hitter who takes a min fo 5 stacks with him. A tank with an arm is invaluble when it comes to taking out a human stack. The 3rd bot could be a second arm equipped tank or a KoTH(45,111,179,229) bot. Stacking is utterly useless in a match with bots that are that fast and powerful.
There are 2 matches in the finals for the current dom then die strategy. One round you want to score huge and the other you want to kill the score.
For the first match play the fast wall bot and KoTH. The wall bot hits the wall first continues over then defends his human player stack. The KoTH comes up after and secures the hill. With the wall in your zone and the KoTH controlling passage over the hill the match is yours. For example when 229 worked they're QPs were around 200 and all they did was sit on the hill for the whole match. This shows a KoTH can post big numbers. Or if you prefer use the second tank bot to try to limit the other alliances scoring, this is a little riskier though.
The second match is the kill everything round. Send the same fast to the wall bot out with the armed tank bot. The wall bot takes out the wall and then continues to his side and pushes boxes into the dead zone. The tank bot stays on the starting side and kills the stacks. Then shoves them into the dead zone. The tank then moves to the lower left of the ramp. The fast wall moves to the upper right. Near the end when the opposing alliance moves to the ramp they'll have to come up the center. Being near each other increase the chance they'll end up touching and if 1 is off both are off. Also being close increases the chance they knock each other off as the first alliance is shoving them.
The draft at nationals will determine the champion. Selecting the wrong bots IE all tank or no bots that are fast to the wall will end the alliance before it even began.
tonyargote
31-03-2003, 22:52
hmm.... I hope we win.
Best of luck to all teams competing at nationals. CYA there
PMGRACER
31-03-2003, 23:11
Texas is going to be exciting to say the least! If it anything like the Buckeye or Great Lakes, we will all be in for a heck of a ride! As far as competitive alliances-27 with 541 and 1126 was formidable in Ohio and all 3 teams will be in Texas, hopefully all in the same division. 322,27 and 217 put up a real fight to the end against a real tough alliance in 302,67, and 226. The final matches were a ton of fun to watch. Or 27, 302 and 217. 3 'bots with fast auton modes and excellant defenders. Baxter looks pretty fierce this year, 2.5 seconds to the bins is awesome! Guess we'll have to step up our program!! Can't wait to see the Technocats at the top of their game. Also looking forward to seeing Swap thing in action. #308 always has some pretty cool designs. 25 will undoubtedly put up a tough fight too. Would be nice if my cable company had the NASA channel. I would have liked to watch the competition in action. I guess Soap will have to do. The list of competitive and awesomely engineered bots is too long to go through. We are looking forward to seeing everyone down in Texas and can't wait to start playing!! Good luck to all the teams who are going. Have a safe and quiet journey. :cool:
tonyargote
31-03-2003, 23:12
Texas is going to be exciting to say the least!
Very True... Can't WAIT!
Originally posted by sevisehda
The draft at nationals will determine the champion. Selecting the wrong bots IE all tank or no bots that are fast to the wall will end the alliance before it even began.
Definitely.
Picking is going to be the most important part of the compeition this year. Everyone better be scouting!
Etbitmydog
31-03-2003, 23:15
PS.
my alternates are 45 and 79 krunch. 79 has an insane drive system. They're pretty wicked.
But wait and see. they'll win if they're in the same DIV.
tonyargote
31-03-2003, 23:16
Everyone better be scouting!
I've received several e-mails already. It seems that many teams have decided to start scouting already, and creating a list or database of possible allies or opponents.
HINT HINT: Seems pretty smart
i never thought a stacker would do well in the playoffs, but 115 (Monta Vista Robotics Team) proved me wrong. We were allied with them at SVR. They successfully stole the oposing alliance's human player stacks twice, gaining our alliance a 3x multiplier and a 2x. Without there stacking, we probably would have lost.
Well the nature of the game this year is quite different from the past. Someone mentioned before that this game favors rookies but I'm not too sure on that. Some of the most impressive bots I have seen this year, are from teams that no one expected anyone spectacular out of this year (basing their judgements off of previous years) but they pulled through this year with some amazing bots.
This is my forth year of doing this program, and I will admit I was horrible when it came to judging other teams/knowing what other teams were REALLY capable of. Someone mentioned the 'big boys' of FIRST, and those bots are going to go very far. I have no doubts that those teams will do very well in their divisions.
However, scouting will also be a very integral part of this year's game. Those who do not do scouting well, will suffer if the time for them to pick an alliance comes. In fact, I think that scouting this year will play an even bigger role than in previous years, but thats my own 2 cents.
However, following the ideal of FIRST and gracious professionalism, everyone will win at this competition. As a personal note, this is by far the most fun I've had working with this program. It made me feel like a rookie again and I can honestly say I haven't enjoyed a FIRST competition this much since my rookie year on 250 in 2000.
I merely hope that everyone will enjoy nationals and that the winners will put on an exciting show in the finals.
P.S. I may know who the 'big boys' are, but I'm still not placing any bets yet :D
D.J. Fluck
01-04-2003, 10:44
Im willing to bet that at least one of the winners of the championship event this year participated last weekend at the Midwest Regional.
Johca_Gaorl
01-04-2003, 12:35
I'm predicting a rookie, cause some of them have been extremely impressive, even besting teams who helped create the team.
I know we've all said stacking isn't important; but no one has done it as well as we thought possible yet. If there is an excellent stacker (i.e. consistently 6+ in a minute or less) then that will be part of the winning alliance, this could also possibly be or include a stack stealer.
And one of the winners will be a massively powerful KOH bot, that cannot be pushed around anywhere on the field and can block the whole ramp or let a partner/opponents on.
I have to agree with Gope and several other posters of this thread. It will be won by two strong veteran teams and a good rookie/second year team. I consider 111 very strong contenders.
Caleb Fulton
01-04-2003, 13:05
THE DEVIL BUG WILL WIN!!!
Did anyone see the Devil Bug? We were pushing it around the Midwest pits on our cart :) (it's only about a foot cubed in size)
cbudrecki
01-04-2003, 13:07
Originally posted by Wayne C.
I predict the Nats winner will come out of the Rutgers Regional in NJ. Nuff said....
From the Rutgers Regional?---YES
From NJ? ----I DON'T THINK SO....
Greg Perkins
02-04-2003, 10:00
Originally posted by shawny963
i guarantee it will be an alliance similar to ours, 930, 65, and 16 at midwest. Two blazingly fast and strong veterans, with a very robust 2nd year or rookie. Our alliance took the bins everytime with our auto modes. Baxter hit the bins in under 3 seconds, 65 in 4 seconds, and we followed up with 5 seconds. I think the midwest outcome would have been different if 16 wouldnt have lost radio connection in the first finals match. Oh, by the way, we flipped beatty two matches in a row. Now what do you all think about that alliance.
Personally, I wouldnt brag about flipping over another robot, that is very unfair to do it intentionally. Plus, garunteed that Beatty is 3 time nationals winners, DOESNT MEANT THAT THEY HAVE A HUGE BULLSEYE PAINTED ON THEIR ROBOT!!!! I have a friend on 71 and she was telling me how irritated they were that 1 team whenever they were against them all the other team did was to bash them. if that was so, then i would qualify that as being ungracious and not being professioal.
Bad
Matt Attallah
02-04-2003, 10:33
Well, I say this thread is really for nothing. FIRST is mostly about the spirit. NO WAY ONE PERSON CAN SEE 100% OF THE TEAMS! I just say we all enjoy what we can. Sure, winning is a nice bonus, but comon, too many people are saying who is going to win...
Ken Patton
02-04-2003, 12:45
posted by badjokeguy:
"Personally, I wouldnt brag about flipping over another robot, that is very unfair to do it intentionally. Plus, garunteed that Beatty is 3 time nationals winners, DOESNT MEANT THAT THEY HAVE A HUGE BULLSEYE PAINTED ON THEIR ROBOT!!!! I have a friend on 71 and she was telling me how irritated they were that 1 team whenever they were against them all the other team did was to bash them. if that was so, then i would qualify that as being ungracious and not being professioal."
Did you see the matches for yourself?
I think you should inform yourself before suggesting that 71 was intentionally knocked over. If you go to SOAP and watch the QF4 matches you’ll see that when 71 got knocked over the first time it was during autonomous mode (impossible for that to be intentional) and when they got knocked over the second time they were pointed downhill with their heavy side down and got bumped – not very hard – by another robot (imho not intentional).
If you watch Match 20 where we did a fair amount of “bashing” their robot – which was intentionally blocking the ramp using their immobilizer pad, thus making themselves a target – we were only trying to score ourselves to win the match. We stopped bashing once they were out of the way, and we didn’t fight them after we got on top. We were playing offense the whole time, and the score reflects it.
I would be surprised if there are any hard feelings about any of these matches from the Beatty coaches & drivers.
Ken
EIROBOTICS86
02-04-2003, 14:28
ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
David.Cook
02-04-2003, 15:38
OK, all of you who are tired of hearing the politically correct answer of "EVERYONE" raise your hand... good. You are the ones I am talking to. Everyone knows that only a few teams will win, but each of you is totally psyched-up for going to Houston. So the answer is win or lose, early or late, by a little or a lot, everyone who attends the event is definitely a winner in a big way, because you could have been sitting home playing one more hour of D2 or Game Cube or watching TV. Instead, you chose to step out and be part of something bigger.
I salute all the teams and team members in FIRST this year! You guys are great, even if your 'bot never made it up the ramp.
On the topic of stacker 'bots being critical - I don't think the statistics support the assertion that they are critical to win. In the last few weeks I have seen maybe ten anecdotes about how the stacker 'bot made a stack to win the match - I even saw one myself. But let's look at the numbers. To date there have been 1927 matches. I have heard of 10 which were turned by a stacker 'bot. Even if there were 5 times as many matches where the stacker 'bot turned the tide, it still amounts to less than 3 percent of all matches.
Let me say this clearly... in competition, more than 97% of all matches were decided by something other than a stacking robot. That is by the numbers.
No I know I will get PMed and yelled at on the thread, but I am just doing the math.
In my opinion, the stacker 'bot is the pinnacle of design this year. If you made a robot that could stack even a few bins in competition then I salute you for a great design achievement. Even more so if you are one of the few that can pick up a stack and carry it to your side.
Unfortunately, this year's game does not really allow stackers to be the deciding factor [the way I would like them to be].
shawny963
02-04-2003, 16:35
Back to the issue on flipping beatty. That wasnt intentional and i wasnt bragging about flipping them. Their robot had a high center of gravity and was just asking to be tipped. Secondly, tipping is a large part of this years game and a robot needs to be built in a manner that it survives the match. If the decided an arm was more important than a bot that had a low enough cg to not tip, that was their own mistake.
BOMBer84
02-04-2003, 23:39
Knowing Beatty and thier long legacy of winning like I do, it wouldn't suprise me at all if they did something to make them extremely tough to flip. That's the kind of team Beatty is. They are a veteran. An Elite. They not only know what FIRST is about, but they know what the compitition is about. They know what's going down and what's about to go down. Veteran teams have such a huge grasp on how to approach the competition. I'm talking about scouting and strategy. I think that it's something some rookie and second-year teams don't realize is that when a team with 2 or 3 low digits come to your pit to talk to you about strategy, and already have all your opponents and you scouted that thier is something they are doing right. I think the next time one of these teams who has their stuff together you might just consider their strategy a little further. They most likely know how to win and how to win well. That's not to say that just because a 71 comes walking into your pit you should treat them like gods, they need to prove themselves. And as the day goes on at most regionals I think the good teams do that and most teams realize this. And most teams are really good at respecting the vets. Just consider it. I'll stop babbling now. As far as who will win, i think 111 is an extremely strong contender, they have hardcore awesome drivers, great strategy, and the know how. I was also really impressed with team 292 who won the last regional we were just at. Strong, tough drive system, can take one heck of a hit, and a consistent auto mode. Congratz on winning the Midwest Regional guys.
alphagrl2
03-04-2003, 01:41
...the silicon valley regional very much reminded me of the stock market...
- if one stock goes down, it takes a complimentary stock down with it (alliances)
- the demand of stocks goes uP with its performance (choosing alliance partners)
utishpenguin
03-04-2003, 01:45
Originally posted by alphagrl2
...the silicon valley regional very much reminded me of the stock market...
- if one stock goes down, it takes a complimentary stock down with it (alliances)
- the demand of stocks goes uP with its performance (choosing alliance partners)
haha without alliances... we will be pretty dead
activemx
03-04-2003, 10:09
I believe that one winner of the Championship will be form the bay area or the teams who attended the Silicon Valley Regionals. This year the robots at the SVR came strong. Very tough competition.
~ Where is team 60?
~ Akshay
it looks like it will not be us because we will more than likely not be present :(
camtunkpa
03-04-2003, 13:15
There are alot of good teams going to nationals. I predict the winners will come out of the Archimedes division. As for which teams, it's pretty much open
WakeZero
04-04-2003, 13:09
All I can say is: Stuff Breaks
In AZ, I think the alliance that won happened to be the only one that did not have any technical difficulties with their machines. That being said, this year has also been very interesting and I honestly believe there is no dominating teams like the years before <cough> 60 <cough> 71 <cough>
Good luck to everyone at Nats, I look forward to seeing you all there!
As for my prediction: An alliance that no one expects will win.
TheLastOne
04-04-2003, 13:40
Not us. That's all I know.
Amanda525
04-04-2003, 14:04
We are all winners in our very own special way. Of course winning nationals would be nice......
Wayne C.
06-04-2003, 08:57
Any new predictions?
utishpenguin
06-04-2003, 14:44
i wonder how the beatty team and team 60 didn't see 60 in SVR
camtunkpa
06-04-2003, 14:50
When it comes down to picking time, all I can ask is that all teams in the Archimedes division don't forget about 222. We are a small team with a small and powerful robot. We have many accomplishments this year. (listed below) We have only had one break in three regionals and even after having our robot smashed during shipping, we came back as finalists......ask anyone around our regionals, we are a tough machine, that is easy to work with and has endless possibilities. Neither stacking, 14" bars, 29 bins, nor ramp controllers will stop us......Remember the little guys!!!! Give us a chance!
sanddrag
06-04-2003, 14:54
I think 60 and/or 968. Oh, and 696 if they were going.
activemx
06-04-2003, 15:21
Yea both 71 and 60 came back.. 71 was finalists and 60 won at the last two regionals. 60 at the SO-Cal a and 71 at West Michigan . 60 takes that stack down pretty well as i have heard and their angled wheel works well. As for 71 i still have yet to see what they do. Will do that at nationals. I dont think 968 is going to nats this year. Though they have had an awesome season. Congras to 968.
~ A M X
Mike Schroeder
06-04-2003, 15:48
after having to watch all the finals in J&J (field Quecing<sp>?) I really think that it will be 3 strong powerful wall destroyers, this year the game can seriously be won or lost in the first 15 seconds, so with that in mind i can tell you my team will foucus on robots with good autonomus modes that are fast and strong, that consistantly hit the wall
activemx
06-04-2003, 16:02
i agress, but there are also robots like 254 that can clear the field in no time.. yea they are fast. and so is MVRT
~ Akshay
The Force From The North is coming. Blizzard hits West Michigan and is now seen heading to Houston. Severe Weather Warning. Be happy if not on Curie field.
Well the way I see it, I think Team 60 is going to do very well like all the other years, their robot is still dominating. Even though their strategy of knocking all 27 boxes onto their side doesn't get them that many QP's, it won't matter because they always make it to the finals, and you don't really have to use that kind of strategy in the finals. Team 968, RAWC has had the most success with finalist in so cal and winners in AZ, they have the best thinking, even with out that really good fork lift. I also think team 45 might do some damage. I wanna know where team 47 is this year, it doesn't seem like their dominating this year.
Amanda Morrison
10-04-2003, 10:50
Originally posted by BOMBer84
That's the kind of team Beatty is. They are a veteran. An Elite. They not only know what FIRST is about, but they know what the compitition is about. They know what's going down and what's about to go down. Veteran teams have such a huge grasp on how to approach the competition. I'm talking about scouting and strategy.
That's not to say that just because a 71 comes walking into your pit you should treat them like gods, they need to prove themselves.
Teams like 71, 111, 45, etc. are not 'gods' in any kind of form. They are normal kids and engineers, just like any other FIRST team. They are veterans, they know how to manipulate the game to their advantage, and they have been in the competition long enough to know how to do it right. But that doesn't mean that they don't help everyone else in the competition learn how to manipulate the game, etc. Instead, these veteran teams are an example of an organized, competitive, and gracious organization. But that's not to say a rookie team couldn't achieve the same thing. I think that if these teams were treated like 'gods', they'd quickly shut down those thoughts. Veteran teams like them indeed have had great runs in the past, but you must also recognize that they've had more chances to win than a rookie team by years entered in the competition. That's a big factor.
Beatty/Team Hammond have had a great run in the past couple years, yes. But every kickoff, every new year, brings them back to where everyone else is - building something from nothing. Teams change, too...students come and go, engineers come and go, parents come and go... no team is the exact same year after year. Just because a team wins one year doesn't mean they'll win another. It's all luck, it's all chance, and most of all - It's just a game. I guess being on that team made me realize that sometimes judgement is made that you can't help - that because you are once a winner or twice a winner, you must always live up to that standard. There are no standards in FIRST, there's nothing that says a team with a number under 200 must be excellent, well-funded teams with large numbers of students, etc. Instead, the only judgement that should be made is that these teams have been around for a long time and you can always count on them to have gracious, professional behavior towards all teams.
So please, down in Houston, don't treat anyone specially because they're a veteran, a championship winner, or otherwise - just show every team the same gracious professionalism that you'd show your grandmother and I guarantee you'll be shown the same and make a friend for life.
Sorry to rant... I guess I've been thinking some of these things and finally got the chance to say some of them. None of these are the views of any team or anyone else but myself.
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