QotW [4-27-03]: Colleges and FIRST Teams

[Madison]

In last week's question, it was revealed that a lot of teams use post-season competitions to train their newest members and to show them first-hand what a FIRST competition is like.

This week, I'd like to examine what happens to students once they graduate from high school and move on to college.

Question 4-27-03: How much of an impact will FIRST have upon the decisions you make regarding college or university? Will you only attend a school that is already involved in FIRST? Will you help start a team at a school that isn't yet involved?

Dean's homework has been consistant over the past few years. He's asked us to carry FIRST with us as we move into college or university. So, let's find out what FIRST's retention really is and if we're spreading FIRST to new colleges and universities, or if we're staying involved by attending colleges with the program already in place.

(Edit: My PC said it was midnight when I posted this. Honest.)

[Cory]

Im starting to look at colleges and whether or not they have a team is definitely a factor. A couple of my top schools right now are in that position because they have teams. If a school I go to doesnt have a team, I would probably join a local team, or a rookie team as a mentor.

Cory

[Mike Schroeder]

Like cory, i would have to say that If i goto a school that doesnt have a team, they will have one by the time i am done, i dont know how i could live w/o a team of my very own :p

[Kristina]

As great as an impact FIRST had on me, I picked college on other factors. Of course I came to UCLA very idealistic of starting a team but I tried working with engineering clubs and I learned that they are very flaky and I was invovled with many other things (and now amassing a huge pile of schoolwork) so forming a team alone was unrealistic. I kind of gave up hope and just helped out where I could with my old team 691 (1/2 hour away) and found other ways to get involved like ref'ing at SCRFF. At LA I found a old team that has told me that they are falling apart, near LA, and would love help. We'll see I can put something together, I would love to mentor a team in need next year. So that's where I am now.

Moral of the story: Even if forming a team because your college doesn't have one is a lot harder than it appeared to be, you can still find other ways to help out and things usually fall into place in the long run so don't lose hope!

[Courtney]

My college decision was definatly based on my experiences with FIRST. Junior year of high school I attended a summer robotics camp there and fell in love with both the school and the atmosphere. I've heard many wonderful things about team 190 and cant wait to be there next year. So yea, the fact that they had a team was a big part of my choice :)

-Courtney

[Ashley Weed]

when I began my search.... I had no idea what I was doing.. all of my first ten schools or so I checked out were scratched off my list for various reasons.... once I finally knew what I was looking for... I narrowed it down to Olin, WPI, Drexel, PSU, Daniel Webster, and Mansfield... Olin, WPI, Drexel, and Daniel Webster all have team affiliation, and Mansfield and PSU I would be able to be involved with teams.. or stay with my own team.

When all said and done... I have choosen PSU W-B.... and I am planning on working with 222.

For me, FIRST made a big impact on choosing my school.

[Madison]

Originally posted by weedie
When all said and done... I have choosen PSU W-B.... and I am planning on working with 222.

Just to clarify - is that Pennsylvania State University at Wilkes-Barre?

[Randi267]

A college with a FIRST team definitely was not a requirement for me to choose the school; however, in the end it was pretty much the deciding factor. I think that dedicated high school FIRSTies who apply to schools already associated with FIRST sets them apart from the other applicants, and the university makes that much more of an effort to seek YOU out. After Houston was over (quite the emotionally draining experience), I visited Wellesley to help in my decision making process, and I spoke to people about FIRST. Most were either oblivious to its existence or did not really have much of an interest. I knew that any attempt to start a team there would probably be in vain, and I realized that I needed FIRST to be a key part of my college experience. Cornell will allow me to keep in touch w/ my high school FIRST memories while making new ones. So I guess my only advice if attempting to start a team at a school, is make sure there is some kind of interest. The liberal arts atmosphere is not really much of a place for a FIRST team anyways...Yay team 639! :D

[Melissa Nute]

Having a FIRST team at the college I choose will be a major factor.
In fact most of the colleges on my list have first teams - WPI, RIT, RPI, Northeastern, Boston Uni, Georgia Tech, Clarkson. I know that some of the colleges I am applying dont like Rice, UF, and Tufts.
In the end, it will come down to which schools are involved in FIRST, and then which one I can afford the best.

[srawls]

When I was visiting colleges last year, I found myself talking to the Chair of Computer Engineering at Virginia Tech. She asked me the standard questions (tell me about you, why do you like engineering, etc.), so of course I started talking about FIRST. She then went in the back room and said "Hold on one moment." She came out with a free 401 t-shirt, and gave it to me! Unbeknownst to me, this lady was involved with the FIRST team at VT. Well, at that point in time I didn't really want to go to VT, but that was certainly a positive expirience that made me look favorably on them. I had wanted to go to Carnaige Mellon University (because they have a robotics institutue, and you can even minor in robotics), but I ended up deciding to go to VT based on money.

To asnwer the question--the existence of a FIRST team is definately a big plus, but if need be, I would help start a team if my college didn't have one.

Stephen

[Amanda Morrison]

Excellent question, M. Here's my story (hopefully not typical):

When I came to Ball State University, I did not know anything about the school itself FIRST-wise, except that it did not have a team. It was only after I got here that I realized that BSU also had no engineering program whatsoever. The only thing it did have was a good technology program and a couple very dedicated on-campus high school students that had previously been on teams. I tried to get Ball State faculty involved (our one professor that agreed to help the team and was very interested in the team stopped taking my phone calls after a while) and we've been interviewed by the BSU newspaper, but they just aren't interested. If I tell anyone about the team, they are always amazed that BSU even has a team.

Our high school students tried to get the team started last year, to no avail. They were told by most of their teachers that the idea was impossible and that they would never get a team started. (Great encouragement there.)

Now that we have the team started, it has been a constant personal struggle to maintain passing grades in my classes, have some kind of family life, and still attend FIRST events, activities, and meetings. After a lot of tears and deliberation (and some early morning conversations with the great Ken Leung), I realized that FIRST has completely overtaken my life, schoolwork, and I simply can't afford all of that responsibility. I found that more and more students will be coming to BSU next year that are interested in the team, and wonderful Josh Hambright from 461 decided that he would be a 'travelling mentor' and would help out team 1020 on weekends during the build season. I announced to my team about two weeks ago that after IRI, I wouldn't be returning as a mentor, but if anything only a spectator. I'm still uneasy with the situation, but I think it is my only option at this point.

When M. and a couple CD cohorts came up with the spectacular idea of freelanceFIRST, I thought, "This is something I can help with that won't completely take over my life and something I can help with from good old BSU." I'm hoping that freelanceFIRST will be something that I can really work with and adapt to. My school year this year is pretty much shot, so let's hope that freelancing can bring up my grades a bit.

All right, there you go. A long and boring account of my personal college team experiences - fun, huh? :)

[gsensel]

The status of First at us nonexistent, and when I first chose the school I really was not thinking about changing it because I am a biology major. Now after meeting a kid from Cleveland, OH, area during a fire drill (I was wearing a first shirt and he started talking to me about it) we have made it our mission to get a team started here before we graduate.

[nickma]

A big part of the reason I came to Clarkson was that it had a FIRST team, plus I got a FIRST scholarship from the school which also helped in my decision, but there was still more. Before coming to Clarkson I was on 190 (WPI) as a high school student and I a great time with those guys.

Some of my reasons for attending Clarkson where
I wanted to attend a school that wasn't 2 miles from my house.
I like the way the classes where structured.
It has many different extra-curricular activities.
It was in my price range.

My advice when choosing a school is:
Visit the school to see what the campus is like, what the professors and like, how the classes are structured and what the students are like.
See what extra-curricular activities (other than FIRST) they have. Many engineering schools have teams, for example we have and Indy Car, Baja Car, Solar Car, Steel Bridge etc. I was very close to trying something different, which I will probably do in the future.
Apply for as many different scholarships as you can. I did not take advantage of this and I regret not doing this. I only looked at the FIRST scholarships. Do apply for those but still look else where for more so the school can fit in your price range.

Also I will say other than the fact I can't be on stage driving, being a mentor is more enjoyable, educational, and rewarding.

[Ashley Weed]

Originally posted by M. Krass
Just to clarify - is that Pennsylvania State University at Wilkes-Barre?

yup that is correct

[Jeff Waegelin]

Well... I never really made FIRST part of my decision process for college. I chose University of Michigan because of the good engineering program, nothing else. There are a few teams in the Ann Arbor area, so if I get the urge, I may help one of them. It's not my primary goal, though. There's a lot more to do at college, and I'm planning on helping with freelanceFIRST and another interesting project my team is starting (more to come later on that). I'll be busy with FIRST stuff regardless, so I'm not worried too much about being directly involved with a team.

[Powers]

FIRST did not determine where i am going to college, but once i get there i am at least going to stay with a team in the area, but i really look to start a new one. Anyone at UT - Austin PM me about this

[ebmonon36]

I had chosen to go to Purdue before I had known about FIRST, but once I learned about it and that there is a team at Purdue, that just made it all the more greater of a school.

Could someone on 461 tell me how you prevent having hundreds of prospective engineers on your team? It just seems like everyone would want to join.

[WernerNYK]

Ok so here's my story:

In 2000 and 2001, prior to my high school having a team, about 20 of us attended the Long Island regional on the Friday afternoon. I thought it was great, but at the same time felt overwhelmed that our school could possibly do anything like that.

Finally in 2002, my senior year of high school, we started our team. I became the student leader of the team and by the time the season was over I was without a doubt a self-proclaimed "FIRST-a-holic." It was at this point that I decided that I would not attend a college without a team. This eliminated a few schools I had applied to, and my final list consisted of WPI, RIT, and Cornell.. in that order.

After all was said and done, I decided to come here, to WPI in Worcester, Mass. I really liked the "WPI Plan," the way in which academics are approached; it is unlike any other school that I know of in the country. With it being only my first year participating in FIRST, I did some research and discovered that team 190 had a pretty impressive background... founding team, won a lot of awards, won the LI regional the year before (I remembered them when I found out they were the crazy team travelling with a pet hamster), and attended LOTS of off-season competitions. Recognizing that they were one of the more influential teams in FIRST, it was everything that I was looking for in a team. So my decision to choose WPI was well paid-off.

Then in June, after much convincing, our rookie team came to BattleCry@WPI for another chance at battle, and saw how great of a show was put on by the WPI team; I was thoroughly impressed with the school, the team, and the past robots. Now, I am here as my first year on 190 and I must say it is completely different from being on a rookie team. I imagine that it would be different even for seasoned veterans. Switching from a HS mentality to that of being a mentor in the matter of just a few months is much harder than it may actually seem. I believe that I adjusted well, and it is quite enjoyable to be a mentor on this team.

[Amanda Morrison]

Originally posted by ebmonon36
Could someone on 461 tell me how you prevent having hundreds of prospective engineers on your team? It just seems like everyone would want to join.

I believe that Purdue has a vigorous interview/application process that even veterans have to go through. If you PM Shannon Schnepp, Guyute, or OneAngryDwarf, they can tell you more.

[Clark Gilbert]

They do have an interview process, etc. I remember when Molly (former 45er, brothers girlfriend) went through it. I also heard that they had a pretty high amount of kids show up that had previously been on a FIRST team. There are even quite a few people on the team now that have been on a team in HS.

Clark -- Hoping to make the team next year. :D

[Stephen Kowski]

Well I know that it was not a factor whether there was a program there or not. I had wanted to either join or start a team either way. Frankly I think it will be interesting starting a team at USF. See you all next year!

[ellenchisa]

Well..our unversity sponsor person doesn't really do much other than give money and a name. They don't have any mentors who come and help. (But we have a few team alumni who do that, so it's fine).
Anyway, when I go to college (haha... 3 more years) I want to make sure it's one that already has FIRST to be involved with, or start my own... I'm so addicted to the whole concept after this year, I'm sure in three more there's no way I could stop =)

[Molly Menges]

Originally posted by ebmonon36
I had chosen to go to Purdue before I had known about FIRST, but once I learned about it and that there is a team at Purdue, that just made it all the more greater of a school.

Could someone on 461 tell me how you prevent having hundreds of prospective engineers on your team? It just seems like everyone would want to join.

The main reason a lot of people don't join right off the bat is because of the time commitment. In high school, you know it takes TONS of time, well, it's really hard to manage school and robots. Most of the advisors this year were engineering majors, and that takes up a ton of time too. Plus there is the fact that people are lazy, and when they come to the callout they don't want to take the time to fill out the app. or go to an interview. There are also a lot of other engineering clubs that people get into...and people realize they can't do everything...

amanda and clark are right. first we go to a callout (there will be flyers and/or chalk on the sidewalks in the fall). There you get an application..why do you want to be on the team, what skills do you have that would help,etc. After that you have an interview with the the sub-team coordinators and the teachers. it's not a hard interview...if i remember correctly, the questions they ask are very similar to the questions on the application.

I'd say if you want to continue FIRST next year, 461 is a great team! :) (i'm not partial or anything) Stick through the whole application/interview process, it's definatly worth it. (Plus, if you are going into engineering, all of the upperclassmen advisors are always happy to help you with class stuff!)

[R2K2D2]

This is a reply to all of you interested in Purdue and joining the Purdue FIRST family. we really have a great program here and it played a role in my decision to attend Purdue. if you would like to be added to our mailing list or be contacted about information feel free to AIM me- R2K2D2 or email me: rdaftuar@purdue.edu. I am a college mentor on the team and would be more than happy to answer any questions or concerns. Feel free to contact me at anytime adn I can give you information about the team and the application process.
looking forward to hearing from you,
Raj

[Josh Hambright]

Originally posted by ebmonon36

Could someone on 461 tell me how you prevent having hundreds of prospective engineers on your team? It just seems like everyone would want to join.

Okay not to beat a dead dog cuz this has been answered pretty thourghly already but yah we do have alot of people show up. But we reall weed them down. Our entire group of TECH Advisors this year had been on first teams in high school. Out of all of our advisors i think we are graduating 3 maybe 4 so that means either next year we are going to admit a whole lot more advisors or we are going to have to only allow 3 or 4 people to join. We already know people are going to try and come to our team from other teams and we are totaly psyched about it.

Another reason we dont have a ton of engineers is the turn over rate. Usualy we have 2 or 3 advisors that just cant handle it and end up either dropping out during the season or quiting post season. All of our advisors spend amazing amounts of time on this program. Raj has been known to pull 3 all nighters a week(WARNING I DO NOT CONDONE THIS KIND OF ACTION). They have to take test and exams early to goto competition. Drop everything on a saturday and wake up early missing cartoons to come watch a bunch of HS kids work in a shop and help us build our robot. Its not an easy life but as they will tell you, they agree with dean. They are getting alot more out of this then they are putting in. The returns and the rewards are outweighing the pain and the stress and the hardwork and the headaches.

Now as far as answering the question for this week. FIRST has changed my life, if you wanna hear my spiel PM me or talk to me at competition... I'll talk your ear off with my own little personal story. I am planning on staying in town next year and attending IVY TECH state college to get that under my belt so that if i apply to another state college they wont look at my horrible high school transcript. I plan on doing the FREELANCE FIRST thing with amanda morrison and trying to get involved heavily in the indiana FIRST community. I've already layed an offer out on the table to go and help 1020 whenever i can even if my team cant go and do it as much as they need. I'll be there whenever time, money, and school will let me. (Thanks to amanda offering me a place to stay!) I will also be on team 461 probably as a consultant as oposed to an advisor (for a few reasons i dont wanna get into). In addition to this whenever i do end up going to a real 4 year college (if i do) I am sure i will either goto a school with a first team or i will goto one without one and start one. I'm a LIFER now, thats the term we use on 461 coined by the great Chris Noble to describe someone that will always be involved in FIRST, no matter where they go or what they do.

[Erin Rapacki]

Yea... I totally have a similar story (but I'm sure you've all heard it)

When I was looking at schools last year, my criteria was pretty basic:

-in the northeast (no more than 6 hour drive)
-good engineering program
-good atmosphere
-and pre-established FIRST team

Some of you might be wondering why I wanted a pre-established team... well, there are a few reasons:

-freshman year is hectic enough, and I didn't want to risk having to juggle schoolwork and finding sponsers for a team... and getting bad grades because I was either too busy/stressed out over the annoying logistical issues (like money, workspace, people)
-yea, at the time I didn't feel ready to start a rookie (I only had 2 years of my own behind me), and I give 'thumbs up' to all you college students who have
-i'm more interested in mentoring and managing, so helping a pre-established team who were a little downtrodden at the time, was an ideal situation for me
-and now that I still dont have to worry about logistics (too much), I can focus my time on on other things like the Blitz! (gotta put that in... of course!)


well... thats my $.02


ByE

erin

p.s. I'm a 'LIFER' too!

[JVN]

Advice from someone who's been there:

When you go to college, no matter how "hardcore" you are, take some time to get things in order before joining FIRST.

College will provide you with a great deal of freedom. Learn who you are, explore your options. Don't jump right into FIRST. It's a great competition, it's a great experience, you learn a lot....
but: It's a huge time commitment, and it's downright addictive.

I love FIRST. I enjoy doing it in college.
My GPA does not enjoy me doing FIRST in college.

Everyone says: "I won't let it interfere with my academics"

.... I know I said it...

It becomes very, VERY easy to sacrifice other things to do FIRST, especially when there are others relying on you. It's easier than you think.

Even if all your doing is sketching a new transmission design when your supposed to be taking notes in Chemistry. Or if you zone out and start thinking about how your gonna play this year's game when you should be studying for your finals. If you go to competition instead of taking your physics test, and blow off studying for the makeup because... heck, competition is more fun.

Kids... it's harder than you think.
Good luck.

If you ever need to talk to someone who's been through it...
AIM: JNoon2
Email: vielkije@clarkson.edu




PS - Amanda, I'm sorry to hear about you stepping back... Of all us "college FIRSTers" you seemed like the one who had it most together. Remember, we all need to find that balance in our lives, and sometimes that means we dont always get exactly what we want... :(

[Matt Leese]

Originally posted by JVN
Advice from someone who's been there:

When you go to college, no matter how "hardcore" you are, take some time to get things in order before joining FIRST.

College will provide you with a great deal of freedom. Learn who you are, explore your options. Don't jump right into FIRST. It's a great competition, it's a great experience, you learn a lot....
but: It's a huge time commitment, and it's downright addictive.

I love FIRST. I enjoy doing it in college.
My GPA does not enjoy me doing FIRST in college.

Everyone says: "I won't let it interfere with my academics"

.... I know I said it...

It becomes very, VERY easy to sacrifice other things to do FIRST, especially when there are others relying on you. It's easier than you think.

Even if all your doing is sketching a new transmission design when your supposed to be taking notes in Chemistry. Or if you zone out and start thinking about how your gonna play this year's game when you should be studying for your finals. If you go to competition instead of taking your physics test, and blow off studying for the makeup because... heck, competition is more fun.

Kids... it's harder than you think.
Good luck.

If you ever need to talk to someone who's been through it...
AIM: JNoon2
Email: vielkije@clarkson.edu




PS - Amanda, I'm sorry to hear about you stepping back... Of all us "college FIRSTers" you seemed like the one who had it most together. Remember, we all need to find that balance in our lives, and sometimes that means we dont always get exactly what we want... :(
I agree that it's very very hard to do FIRST in college. I'd add that there are more problems than just balancing FIRST and school work. One of the major issues I've seen with going from high school to college is the fact that the team you are in in college will be very different than the team you were on in high school. This can be a good thing but I've seen too many college students not truly realize this and end up leaving the team because of it.

For those of you who are thinking about mentoring in college, I strongly recommend it. It's one of the best experiences you can get as well as just a good thing to do for your community.

As for who has it together the best of college students doing FIRST, my vote goes to Joe Ross. He did FIRST for three years in high school then four years now in college. Then again he's been telling me he won't do it next year because of senior design (I don't really believe him). Good luck to all of you trying to stay involved.

Matt

[JVN]

Originally posted by Matt Leese
Then again he's been telling me he won't do it next year because of senior design (I don't really believe him).

At Clarkson U, you can do FIRST Robotics as part of Senior ID (Integrated Design). I'm excited, Senior year will probably be my most ACTIVE year in FIRST.

Finding the balance between FIRST and Classes will be much easier, when my classes ARE FIRST :D