My hints and guess on the Game in 2004! [Archive]

Merle

23-10-2003, 13:44

I'll bite...

>>But, for the time being here is a hint:
>>DL 12-13-02.
>>Hint #4A) My first hint was referencing a movie. (Wow, Elgin,
>>why don't you just tell them the answer!!

The release date of "DrumLine" movie was Dec 13, 2002

>>My second hint is, that Atlanta plays a big part in my theory, even more so the Georgia Dome itself!!!

The movie DrumLine is about a marching band at Atlanta A&T University.

>>Hint 3... [excerpt from email]
>>We can still smell suntan lotion and hear splashes in the
>>water, but the once distant drum beat calling our veteran and
>>rookie teams to register for the 2004 FRC is getting closer and
>>closer - can you hear it?
>>At the home offices we have been marching to the beat of this
>>drum throughout the ...

More drums... are FIRST personnel known for including hints like this in their communications???

So what do we do with drums... stack, bang, roll, collect, ???

Merle Yoder
Microelectronics Engineer
Phonon Corp.
571 Team Paragon

Joe Matt

23-10-2003, 14:02

Drums? Interesting, but man, those things break easier than last years bins did!

boostaddict

23-10-2003, 14:04

you know whats funny? i remember watching drumline on the plane when we were flying back from the houston nationals.

Jay5780

23-10-2003, 14:09

He never said a drum like one you would play in a band. It could be something like a 55 gallon drum... These wont break easy, they can be rolled, and they can be stacked.

Joe Matt

23-10-2003, 14:20

Originally posted by Jay5780
He never said a drum like one you would play in a band. It could be something like a 55 gallon drum... These wont break easy, they can be rolled, and they can be stacked.

Ahh... I see... stupid me (hey, that rhymes!)

I acutally think a metal oil drum will be a kick-butt scoring device. Plus, they sound really industrial when hit with a hammer. ;)

Jeff Waegelin

23-10-2003, 14:30

Originally posted by Jay5780
He never said a drum like one you would play in a band. It could be something like a 55 gallon drum... These wont break easy, they can be rolled, and they can be stacked.

I think Jay has hit the nail on the head. All the drum references make it pretty obvious (presuming it's not a red herring), but I doubt they're talking about musical drums. A 55-gallon drum, or one of similar shape but lesser size, seems like a great idea for a possible gamepiece. We shall see if this is true or not, but it seems like a possibility, at least. Of course, we've all seen misleading game hints, too... so this could be another distraction, or something with another meaning (remember ax^2+bx+c?). However, it's always something to watch out for...

Now... off to sketch some ideas for a drum-stacker :p

Ian W.

23-10-2003, 15:14

Ugh.

55-Gallon drums?

And I thought last year's game had horrible game pieces...

The problem with drums, they're VERY heavy, and hence very destructive to any robot not coated in titanium or something like that.

Secondly, you thought that last year was hard to move around? Even if it was smaller versions of 55 Gallon oil drums, I'd just build a little box with a scoop of some sort, and use that, cause I wouldn't bother stacking. It's simply not worth it, as shown last year.

I think last year's game was an experiment of sorts, and I don't think it went well. I doubt they'd do a game that at all resembled last year's game, save for how teams are setup (2v2 and whatnot).

Rich Wong

23-10-2003, 16:00

Originally posted by Jay5780
He never said a drum like one you would play in a band. It could be something like a 55 gallon drum... These wont break easy, they can be rolled, and they can be stacked.

...and you can take the top and bottom off and use them as tunnels.
You can fill thems with things or another robot.
You can put them on wheels and roll them around.
You can empty them and move the content to a scoring zone.

You can get plastic 55 gallon drums too.

:)

Pat Roche

23-10-2003, 16:24

i dont remember what thread it was but someone made a good point of saying that the game for the past few years has reflected some part of the lego game. For and answer on the drum thing id try to find that thread and look at it as a possibility...

Just remember though this is FIRST....im a senior and every year ive been involved the game has been completely different....any thing can and probably will happen...

-Pat

JVN

23-10-2003, 16:34

Originally posted by Merle
So what do we do with drums... stack, bang, roll, collect, ???

The scariest part about all this is... it makes some sense...

I guess we'll all find out Jan 10th, ehh?

Until then... I guess I better start designing "drum mechanisms".

;)

rees2001

23-10-2003, 17:36

http://industrial-drum-equipment.com/drums.htm
http://www.apachechemical.com/248/8659.htm?948
http://www.uscontainer.com/drums.html

Rich Wong

23-10-2003, 17:45

Wow, you can......... and ........have the ....... in the ...... and .....with them DRUMS!

Or you can also ...... with the ....size.... then ......with them DRUMS!
:yikes:

rees2001

23-10-2003, 17:49

Originally posted by Rich Wong
Wow, you can......... and ........have the ....... in the ...... and .....with them DRUMS!

Or you can also ...... with the ....size.... then ......with them DRUMS!
:yikes:

you read my mind

EddieMcD

23-10-2003, 18:35

I don't care, as long as we get a spinning goal.

-Eddie "The Avid Toroid Terror Fan" McDonnell

Mike Schroeder

23-10-2003, 20:36

idk about drums... but i hear there is gonna be alot of clowning around

KenWittlief

23-10-2003, 20:46

Im still waiting for the first time we get to see the human players and the robots on the field at the same time

man vs machine

robots dragging human players across the field by the ankle, into the scoring zone

you get extra points if you stack the players

or if the players stack the robots.

Joe Matt

23-10-2003, 20:55

Originally posted by KenWittlief
Im still waiting for the first time we get to see the human players and the robots on the field at the same time

man vs machine

robots dragging human players across the field by the ankle, into the scoring zone

you get extra points if you stack the players

or if the players stack the robots.

Lets hope we don't have an Sentenials... ;)

Justin Stiltner

23-10-2003, 21:18

yaknow all this talk about drums has made me think of a neat game object...
empty 1 gallon paint cans... with the wire handel attached...

Rich Wong

23-10-2003, 23:06

Originally posted by Justin Stiltner
yaknow all this talk about drums has made me think of a neat game object...
empty 1 gallon paint cans... with the wire handel attached...

Why empty?
;)

purplehaze357

23-10-2003, 23:40

this defeats the purpose of the element of suprise and its detremental to FIRST i dont understand why people if they know anything would want to ruin the game. Just wait until Janurary, it's less than 3 months away and we're still not done the 2003 season.

Justin Stiltner

23-10-2003, 23:45

Well they wouldent have to be empty, but I was just thinking that they would be somthing kinda dynamic... they roll in some orentations... stack in others, have a nice handel to get hung on different robot parts :yikes: <-- evil grin

and to Purplehaze, rember this is the rumor mill

Elgin Clock

24-10-2003, 08:11

Originally posted by purplehaze357
this defeats the purpose of the element of suprise and its detremental to FIRST i dont understand why people if they know anything would want to ruin the game. Just wait until Janurary, it's less than 3 months away and we're still not done the 2003 season.

There is a reason why this is in the RUMOR MILL....

I just want to be VERY clear on that!!

Nothing came from this thread, that anyone else couldn't have guessed with the provided informaton!

edit: And by the way, I was way off last year after a calculated guess as well!!! So I guess as you said, we will just have to wait till January 10th to see if I am correct (or way off again!!!)

Rich Wong

24-10-2003, 10:00

Originally posted by purplehaze357
this defeats the purpose of the element of suprise and its detremental to FIRST i dont understand why people if they know anything would want to ruin the game. Just wait until Janurary, it's less than 3 months away and we're still not done the 2003 season.

THREE MORE MONTH OF WAITING..... NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Quick, someone start another controversial thread with 300+ posting.

I need some FIRST stuff to read...... (in deep withdrawal)

Wake up KenL say something good.

;) ;) ;)

dlavery

24-10-2003, 10:42

While searching for information on something else (that I can't tell you about -heh heh heh!), I came across this item (http://www.DiscountInflatable.com/advertising/pages/11.htm). Only in America can you buy your very own full-size inflatable F-16 aircraft blow-up doll! With matching blow-up Abrahms M1A1 tank inflatables! Finally, a purpose for that air compressor sitting in my garage, relatively unused. Is this a great country or what!!! :D

-dave

p.s. yes, I have already checked, and I can fit one in my back yard... Won't my kids be surprised!!! (and the neighbors even a little more scared)

sanddrag

24-10-2003, 11:13

Originally posted by dlavery
While searching for information on something else (that I can't tell you about -heh heh heh!), I came across this item (http://www.DiscountInflatable.com/advertising/pages/11.htm). Only in America can you buy your very own full-size inflatable F-16 aircraft blow-up doll! With matching blow-up Abrahms M1A1 tank inflatables! Finally, a purpose for that air compressor sitting in my garage, relatively unused. Is this a great country or what!!! :D

-dave

p.s. yes, I have already checked, and I can fit one in my back yard... Won't my kids be surprised!!! (and the neighbors even a little more scared) THIS IS A GREAT COUNTRY! That is so awesome. And they even have Unimogs too. I'll park it in my driveway. I think the tank can sit in my lawn. And the F-16 can hang from the tree in my backyard. How much are these things anyway.

Rich Wong

24-10-2003, 11:30

Originally posted by dlavery
While searching for information on something else (that I can't tell you about -heh heh heh!), I came across this item (http://www.DiscountInflatable.com/advertising/pages/11.htm). Only in America can you buy your very own full-size inflatable F-16 aircraft blow-up doll! With matching blow-up Abrahms M1A1 tank inflatables! Finally, a purpose for that air compressor sitting in my garage, relatively unused. Is this a great country or what!!! :D

-dave

p.s. yes, I have already checked, and I can fit one in my back yard... Won't my kids be surprised!!! (and the neighbors even a little more scared)

....I am imagining the possibilities for the 2004 Remote Kickoff or the Regional event- I like the inflatable arches, costumes, and mascots.
(must call for pricing!)
Thanks Dave. :)

Joe Matt

24-10-2003, 12:02

Mabey Dean's Island can expand their military and airforce a little? ;)

Matt Leese

24-10-2003, 15:12

Originally posted by dlavery
While searching for information on something else (that I can't tell you about -heh heh heh!), I came across this item (http://www.DiscountInflatable.com/advertising/pages/11.htm). Only in America can you buy your very own full-size inflatable F-16 aircraft blow-up doll! With matching blow-up Abrahms M1A1 tank inflatables! Finally, a purpose for that air compressor sitting in my garage, relatively unused. Is this a great country or what!!! :D

-dave

p.s. yes, I have already checked, and I can fit one in my back yard... Won't my kids be surprised!!! (and the neighbors even a little more scared)
So, the real question is, what would the person who designed last year's game be looking for that would lead him to inflatible F-16's? Does this mean that there will be an inflatable component to this year's game? Very interesting.

For an off-the-wall idea, maybe the playing field surface will be one of those moon-walk surfaces.

Matt

Jeremy_Mc

24-10-2003, 17:15

Or perhaps this year's game will be held in these (http://www.inflatablechurch.com/) in a parking lot instead of tents?

;)

EStokely

24-10-2003, 19:29

Gotta love the rumor mill....

I will say in public that I doubt the drum guess.

Now that I have said that I do think we will have something that rolls (we're due)

I always liked those 3 ft balls from the 4v0 days.

But to add fuel to the idea of stacking. What if there was zone only your alliance was allowed to go in to stack (no intentional knock downs) Big drums would take time. If there are other ways to score then you decide which is better. Go for the 55 gal drum for 50 points or the 25 One gallon paint cans at 2 points each. Put the paint cans on shelves, like at Home depot......

I agree with Rich Wong. We need another 300 + thread somewhere

Later

Anthony

24-10-2003, 20:02

Does anybody remember the last thread like this, someone spoke of inflatable punching clowns as scoring pieces. The problem with this is that a whole bunch of them would be expensive, so why not go to discount inflatable sites. Very interesting I do believe.

Sachiel7

24-10-2003, 21:26

Here's another off the wall idea though...
In the FIRST email blast that was being referred to, (BTW, I don't remember seeing that one come across... :rolleyes: ) Notice the "red and blue totes just waiting to be filled". That doesn't necessarily mean the kit totes...
I liked the bins in 2003 ok, but I couldn't see using them 2 years in a row...
Actually, as far as the drum idea goes, You can find some smaller, plastic drums (kinda like the ones used in racing) that aren't very heavy at all.
Another note about the Blast email in question, When was it sent?
The 5 game committees did not meet and present until 9/1/03, and I doubt that FIRST would blast info on the game too early...
BTW Dave... you wouldn't happen to be attempting to side track us with those nice, shiny looking military inflatables, would you? :D
Actually, from some very reliable sources within FIRST (names won't be mentioned) It sounds like we know this much:

-2v2
-Auto mode
-Same Size/Shape field

KOTH is still up in the air, but I think it's fairly likely that it might make...some form of return...
I think the playing field surface will probably remain carpet, from what I've heard.
As far as field obstacles go, if you read the forum feedback form, FIRST states that they would try to keep the Field obstacle designs simpler and smaller for team reproduction purposes. This may mean that field obstacles will be in the 2004 game...
I wish I had gotten a little more information on the game design process this year. I would guess that FIRST gave a set of base guidelines to each of the 5 game committees, like field size/shape, 2v2, auto included, maybe KOTH included... or 2 basic scoring methods, etc.
The list could go on...
I actually had a prediction list that I put up in another thread...can't find it at the moment. But it had percentages of game attributes that were likely. 90% of the information came from my sources....
I think just determining a scoring object can tell us a good deal about the game. But doing that's the difficult part.
Ok, to finish off this post, here are some links to different kinds of plastic drums!

http://www.bestcontainers.com/plastic-drums-plastic-closed-head-drums.html

http://www.bestcontainers.com/plastic-drums-heavy-duty-plastic-drums-in-colors.html
(Note the Red and Blue colored drums....drool...)

http://www.labsafety.com/store/product_group.asp?dept_id=10946&parent_id=904
(More red + blue drums...)

http://www.maxicontainer.com/plastic-drums/plastic_drums.htm

Oh, and BTW, Plastic Drums aren't always in a roll-like shape either. You can find rectangular, cube, and a few other shaped drums...

Keep your eyes out guys...

Aignam

26-10-2003, 13:39

Originally posted by Anthony
Does anybody remember the last thread like this, someone spoke of inflatable punching clowns as scoring pieces. The problem with this is that a whole bunch of them would be expensive, so why not go to discount inflatable sites. Very interesting I do believe.

YES. My advisor submitted the game idea to FIRST called 'Send In The Clowns'. A quick CD search yields ---

Originally posted by Wayne C.
Now that the Friday deadline has passed- did anybody send FIRST a suggested game for next year?

If so- let us in on it!!!

Team 25's game "Send in the Clowns" uses inflatable punching clowns, a car, a jail, bicycle pumps and a need for pressure sensors, pneumatics and finesse. If FIRST uses it it will be both miraculous and outrageous.

Lets hear your suggestions

WC
:cool:

Is anybody else getting scared yet? This isn't the first time we've gotten a clue about next year's game having similarities to 'Send In The Clowns'.

Matt Krass

26-10-2003, 14:03

I'm getting really scared......
Yet strangely excited...

*hops in to DeLorean* I just hope Dean doesn't have something to prevent me from time travelling to January....

BandChick

26-10-2003, 15:46

I don't know how likely a moonwalk surface would be. How quickly do you think that or any other inflatable item would pop?

I mean, think about it, if any part of the robot has a sharp edge, bye bye inflatable stuff.

Aignam

26-10-2003, 15:48

You make it sound as if the Stack Attack bins were all that durable. Cracking one of those is nearly as easy as popping an inflatable clown, in most cases..

BandChick

26-10-2003, 15:50

Originally posted by Aignam
You make it sound as if the Stack Attack bins were all that durable. Cracking one of those is nearly as easy as popping an inflatable clown, in most cases..

I disagree, I think you'd probably be more likely to pop 20-30 inflatable items in a 2 minute round, whereas, you MIGHT only break 4 or 5, maximum 10 sterilite bins in a round.

Madison

26-10-2003, 15:55

...if a bin cracked, for the most part, it could still be used. A clown with a deep intestinal laceration isn't going to be of much use after a few moments.

Also -- those barrels are expensive.

BandChick

26-10-2003, 15:59

Very true, unless of course FIRST wanted to go buy $5000 worth of duct tape to patch holes.

Aignam

26-10-2003, 16:04

Bins didn't normall crack if you hit them, unless they were against another surface or being shoved under the bar. MOST items will crack if being shoved under a bar or pushed up against lexan or plywood or what have you. I don't thing much would change with inflatable game pieces.

RogerR

26-10-2003, 16:05

Originally posted by BandChick
I disagree, I think you'd probably be more likely to pop 20-30 inflatable items in a 2 minute round, whereas, you MIGHT only break 4 or 5, maximum 10 sterilite bins in a round.

what if they used custom made clowns with a kevlar outter layer

Aignam

26-10-2003, 16:08

That's a pretty feasible solution for the popping, I suppose.

BandChick

26-10-2003, 16:17

feasible to stop popping, but feasible as far as costs are concerned?

Aignam

26-10-2003, 16:19

It helps negate the cost of buying more clowns.

dlavery

26-10-2003, 19:15

Originally posted by M. Krass
...if a bin cracked, for the most part, it could still be used. A clown with a deep intestinal laceration isn't going to be of much use after a few moments.

Unless they were made like this (http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/spotlight/airbags01.html).

Joe Matt

26-10-2003, 21:10

The ONLY thing that won't be broken will be a $1,000,000 bill that the teams will have to collect to own. :yikes: :ahh:

Elgin Clock

27-10-2003, 12:42

Originally posted by dlavery
While searching for information on something else (that I can't tell you about -heh heh heh!), I came across this item (http://www.DiscountInflatable.com/advertising/pages/11.htm)

-dave

I'm guessing that Dave was actually looking for THESE (http://www.discountinflatable.com/advertising/pages/airdancers.htm) for a FIRST related event???

Anyways, as for the original thread topic.

YES!! Merle was correct on his guess of my prediction in THIS POST (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=192438#post192438)

Too many things I noticed lead to my belief of a drum of some sort being used in the game in 2004.

Hint 1 explained) The Movie Drumline; Release date 12-13-02, if you didn't catch that reference (a non sporting event, but a highly competitive event that just happens to have the Nationals take place at the Atlanta Dome in Georgia.) (Very similar to us this year!)

Hint 2 explained ) As stated before, the Georgia Dome itself, as a setting to the movie (And our new home for the Championship event this year as well)

Hint 3 explained) The e-mail from FIRST that had references to drums. (BTW, Sachiel7, I received this e-mail on Wed 8/20/2003 @ 9:09 PM from my team's main contact, so it had to be released from FIRST before that!)

As for the other reference from a member on another team sharing a thought with me at River Rage, I will let that person decide whether or not to share their thought with the rest of you as well. :D

Now as for Drums falling on robots or all the other guesses you all had for this prediction, I don't think that is correct.

As i said before, Oh, and as for autonomous mode playing a big part, I'm not sure of that yet. Let's just say, if my guess is right, then they will have to be able to work in sync with the banner sensors in a big way to be worth the effort of even writing an autonomous code into the robot.

I think that the Drum or drums (55 gallon as guessed), will be stationary and we will have to grab something or somethings out of them and separate them somehow. Reaching and grabbing in a barrel will make you use the banner sensors to “see” the items inside with (retro reflective?) tape on them. Autonomous will help in the sense that it will be useful in the same way as this year, whereas it will work for you in the first bit of the round and help “score big” somehow with co-operation with that banner sensors. Who knows, maybe they will even throw in some other sensors this year (proximity, or others?)

Ok, so now everyone knows my official prediction, what do you think of it???

(Hey, it’s better than the usual “water” idea that gets thrown around every year!!!)

Oh, and if this idea is wrong again like my idea was last year, oh well!! :yikes: :ahh: :]

MisterX

27-10-2003, 16:11

I dunno I like the ideas of using the drums for a playing object in the game but It hink that ur prediction as to how it would be used isnt going to fall out the way u planned. It just seems to me in all my lacke of experience that for FIRST to do something like looking in bins a sorting them would be marching tot he beat of a different DRUM. As to exacly what though I have no clu nor does ne body really though. However I deffinatly think it would be cool to do something else with the srums like maybe putting them in a chute of some sort or something I dunno All I know I am sure Dean's mean brain and all of the other people out their will definatly some up with soemthign even better then the year before like they always do.

JVN

27-10-2003, 16:14

Something to think about:

If I was on FIRST staff, I'd spend a lot of time messing with team's minds, and I'd thoroughly enjoy it.

I wonder how they feel... ;) :D

pauluffel

27-10-2003, 21:23

I like your reasons for guessing that drums will be important, but I think it would be much more interesting to use musical drums than simply drums as containers. Using audio to help with autonomous would be fiarly economical and would add a huge new aspect to the game, though making the audible data useful without having too much interference would be rather difficult (imagine the huge numbers of fans screaming in the final match of Championships...)
Possibly using ultrasonic sensors to measure distance or having some sort of "drums" on the field that would produce ultrasonic or subsonic beats that you could only find and hunt down with sensors on your robot? Sounds fun and challenging to me.

Also about the game but not related to drums, I'm hoping they make the field more dynamic, with a large random element, like squirrels or small dogs or some other sort of animal, though PETA (the humane treatment of animals nuts, not the People for Eating Tasty Animals) would mug Dean if live animals were part of the game.

Jeff_Rice

28-10-2003, 10:14

I think pauluffel has hit the nail (or drum) right on the head here.

They could be stationary, and thus allow any robot to determine its position with decent accuracy.

The only problem is that with the crowd and all, the noise could confuse the robots.

Sachiel7

29-10-2003, 15:03

Thanks for the info on the Blast!
I guess I just missed it.
I think you're definitely on to something. I'm not sure in what sense, but drums do make sense. They haven't been used before (or at least, while i've been around). I kinda like the idea of drums. BUT...what other scoring object may be used???
Like you said, something may be stored in the drums. This is probably likely if they're stationary. Or, they may be "scoring areas", like getting objects in them counts for points. I'm not sure, but I think we've definitely got something going here.

Francis-134

29-10-2003, 18:37

Reaching and grabbing in a barrel will make you use the banner sensors to “see” the items inside with (retro reflective?) tape on them

It seems rather unlikely that FIRST would make people look in the drums for things. Although it certainly would be a challenge to build and program a robot like that, it may get a little boring in the stands watching a robot find things in barrels.

But as always, it will be difficult to tell what those guys/gals at FIRST will have in store for us this year.
:D

Rich Wong

29-10-2003, 19:19

Pat Roche

29-10-2003, 20:10

Jeremy Roberts

29-10-2003, 20:43

Originally posted by Rich Wong
I over heard a really good idea today in one of out robotics workshop:

Student1: I know how to get big sponsor money for the FIRST Championship in GA- design a game with 2 liter Coke bottles!

Coca-cola is headquartered in Atlanta and they would love to see all those Coca-Cola bottles flying around and become the "official drink of FIRST."

Student2: yet and think of all that free cola we can drink in the pits!

HINT, HINT, FIRST and Coca-Cola.

:D

Actually, the president of Coca-Cola and his wife are fully funding a Georgia rookie team out of their pockets. They are involved so let's just wait and see. :D

Justin Stiltner

29-10-2003, 23:26

Hrmm seems like Dean actually asked a "friend" of his from some unnamed soft drink company if he would be seeing the first symbol on their drink cans like coke has the olympic rings on theirs... the guy stood out of the crowd and gave a thumbs up.. but I dont think anything came of it.. this was at nats in 2001

Wetzel

29-10-2003, 23:34

Originally posted by Justin Stiltner
Hrmm seems like Dean actually asked a "friend" of his from some unnamed soft drink company if he would be seeing the first symbol on their drink cans like coke has the olympic rings on theirs... the guy stood out of the crowd and gave a thumbs up.. but I dont think anything came of it.. this was at nats in 2001

Ahhh..the mystical FIRST bottled water. There have been various sightings at rare intervals.

Not drums, but hocky pucks.

Wetzel

JVN

29-10-2003, 23:57

Originally posted by Wetzel

Not drums, but hocky pucks.

Not hockey pucks, footballs.

Matt Leese

30-10-2003, 11:53

Originally posted by JVN
Not hockey pucks, footballs.
Bowling pins? (Am I the only one who remembers that theory from years past?)

Matt

Elgin Clock

30-10-2003, 12:26

Originally posted by Rich Wong
I over heard a really good idea today in one of out robotics workshop:

Student1: I know how to get big sponsor money for the FIRST Championship in GA- design a game with 2 liter Coke bottles!

Coca-cola is headquartered in Atlanta and they would love to see all those Coca-Cola bottles flying around and become the "official drink of FIRST."

Student2: yet and think of all that free cola we can drink in the pits!

HINT, HINT, FIRST and Coca-Cola.

:D

The only problem with that is that the Georgia Dome (from the last I heard and read about) is a Pepsi Co. sponsored stadium!! Sounds odd with the Coca-Cola HQ being in the Dome's backyard and all, but just something to think about!!!

(Can someone verify this or disprove this fact, I read this a while ago when the details of Atlanta hosting FIRST came out and now I can't find any info on it anymore online)

Aidan F. Browne

30-10-2003, 23:59

Now it all makes sense!!!

Autonomous mode: the robots have to take the Pepsi Challenge.... use the banner sensors to pick out the 2-liter Pepsi bottle out of a row of 2-liter Coke bottles

We should have figured this out before now!

MisterX

31-10-2003, 23:57

A wicked cool playing object to be used would be like HUGE hockey pucks rather then those wimpy small ones the humans play with. Think rather we could use like garbage can covers and play sort of a robot hockey with a twist no doubt or robot POGS! The absolute best game ever!( POGS that is not too sure about robot pogs it has never been done before..... yet)

Wetzel

01-11-2003, 00:47

Return of the puck from 99?

Hinkel Y.

01-11-2003, 01:59

I wonder if the bots are allow to check and pick out fights? :D I would like to see two robots duking it out... :P

Matt Krass

01-11-2003, 13:36

We're gonna need some Asimo clones then......

Rich Wong

01-11-2003, 23:29

Originally posted by Matt Krass
We're gonna need some Asimo clones then......

Asimo.... that would make an interesting game elements!

Imagine... FIRST robots vs. Asimos (Asimoes?).... no contest.

FIRST will be first.
:yikes:

Michael R. Lee

02-11-2003, 13:32

Well if we're facing ASIMO clones.... definitely need a better traction.... <trys to start drawing FLUFFY's drive train and chassis :D :D> and a scooper to knock em on their backs for a second..... wait not gracious professionalism. AAWww shucks... maybe its the puck from 99 and ASIMO.... and bowling pins to add into the fun!

Well you can count on this.... autonomous period of some sort and 2 v. 2.

Aignam

02-11-2003, 18:29

My vote still goes for a water hazard..:D

Gawd I love argument for argument's sake.

Michael R. Lee

02-11-2003, 18:30

Originally posted by Aignam
My vote still goes for a water hazard

Maybe then the weight limit will go up too :D

Jeff_Rice

02-11-2003, 22:33

How about a different size/shape limit? It would be interesting, especially if there was an area in the middle, such as a circle, that you could not put anything in. The dimension check box would have a corresponding hole cut in it, and a cylinder could slide through it to see if the bot was within specs.

Another idea is to go with a circular exterior limit or maybe something weird like an isosceles triangle. Or maybe even a 345 or scalene triangle, or a pentagon or ...................

They could also make people consider building unique bots by making something the game reward unusual shapes, ie a half circle bot might be able to get something like KOTH points by maneuvering into a scoring area not big enough for a conventional full size limit boxbot

I just attempted to do an ASCII drawing to demonstrate my above point. I just discovered I don't have the patience for ASCII art.

I would love to see changes like these.

BandChick

03-11-2003, 01:08

Originally posted by Aignam
My vote still goes for a water hazard..:D

Gawd I love argument for argument's sake.

a) did you just say "GAWD" !?

Originally posted by Jeff_Rice
The dimension check box would have a corresponding hole cut in it, and a cylinder could slide through it to see if the bot was within specs.

b) wouldn't you then run the risk of damaging said robot?

Michael R. Lee

04-11-2003, 11:21

No you're all wrong! We're going to have to put rectangular prisms into circluar holes to score in the goals! ;) And of course the goals are above the water hazard. ;)

And yeah that would damage the bot.... :)

Elgin Clock

04-11-2003, 12:07

I have something else to add to my prediction!!

I believe that the autonomous mode in this year's game will take place at the END of the match!!

Just another thing I picked up on in a certain e-mail blast from FIRST.

:cool:

Sachiel7

04-11-2003, 13:41

Yeah, that's something I was thinking they might do too.
The game must be set up so that this would be useful though.

BandChick

04-11-2003, 14:35

i think we discussed this last year as well, if autonomous is at the END, it will be really hard to orient your bot to be successful with your code, and what would be the purpose of just having 4 robots on the field going crazy because they weren't in the right zone to complete their autonomous?

Sachiel7

04-11-2003, 15:01

That was my concern the first time I heard the idea, but then someone noted that you could position your robot wherever you wanted it to start right before auto clicks on. I still think this may have some major problems, but FIRST may just try it...

SarahB

04-11-2003, 15:11

Originally posted by BandChick
i think we discussed this last year as well, if autonomous is at the END, it will be really hard to orient your bot to be successful with your code

I think FIRST might actually like that idea. With no good, accurate way to align your bot correctly, there's less of a reliance on dead reckoning. It would really emphasize the use of sensors for autonomous.

Jeff_Rice

04-11-2003, 23:07

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jeff_Rice
The dimension check box would have a corresponding hole cut in it, and a cylinder could slide through it to see if the bot was within specs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

b) wouldn't you then run the risk of damaging said robot?

:) Not if they slid it in carefully, and even if it did hit it, that part would have to be relocated. The robot has to fit in it at rest position after all.

As to having autonomous at the end, nah. Let's have autonomous randomly occurring throughout the match!

LizJJury

09-11-2003, 17:08

you were mentioning drums earlier on in this post....it would be pretty cool to have the robots be giant wheels.....i don't know what they are called...maybe uniwheel....not a unicycle. anyways that would be pretty darn cool if a robot ended up like that. oh, and what if you had to do something like bowling??? ne ways...sorry for messing with your heads.....

oh visit redvsblue.com
very very funny.

Guilherme

05-12-2003, 18:43

Arefin Bari

09-12-2003, 19:57

I don´t know about the game, but I BET there´s going to be a HUGE autonomous period, with difficult things to do.

All that because the C programming and it´s float points... ah.. I don´t know... calculating PI to measure distance between things, making exact calculations... there´s some point in that for sure...

but think about it... there are going to be a lot of rookie teams... who has never experienced FIRST... they may not even have a very good programming skill.... i think that the autonomous time period will be almost as same as last year...

Aignam

09-12-2003, 21:35

I think FIRST might actually like that idea. With no good, accurate way to align your bot correctly, there's less of a reliance on dead reckoning. It would really emphasize the use of sensors for autonomous.

You'd see a whole lot of teams with a dead reckoning code set to go straight forward for xx amount of seconds. Position yourself directly in front of your opponent...Need I say more? It's the easy, effective solution. It works. People will exploit that to no end, and perhaps justly so.

E. The Kidd

10-12-2003, 02:27

ok I've read the entire thread (trying to stay away from my English 101 paper), here's my guess:

If drums are used I think they'll be stationary they will be stationary. Why? if you navigate through stationary bins not only do they act as a visual limitation but they force teams to get really creative with their autonomous programming

Sachiel7

10-12-2003, 14:04

What about if they're stationary they're stationary they're stationary?
Heh, j/k :p
I'd have to agree. I don't think FIRST is going to go up and over the edge with auto mode this year. So, they'll make the game so that auto mode is a little more challenging for experienced teams.

E. The Kidd

10-12-2003, 18:13

Randy_VanW.

24-12-2003, 22:01

Sorry Guys but I have to go with the good old rookie theory there arn't that many vet teams that can program *cough* Well *cough* in C let alone in auto cause I mean look at all the idle teams last year. Our team is working on it but with out controls for the Edu bot (We're cheap :D ) its kind of difficult getting it right. And as far as the Drums go yeah I think thats it cause it is different ("to the beat of a different drum")!

sanddrag

24-12-2003, 22:38

Now all we have to do is figure out how where the drums will be in relation to the stairs and then what we will be having to do in autonomous at the end of the match.

danielkitchener

29-12-2003, 01:56

I over heard a really good idea today in one of out robotics workshop:

Student1: I know how to get big sponsor money for the FIRST Championship in GA- design a game with 2 liter Coke bottles!

Coca-cola is headquartered in Atlanta and they would love to see all those Coca-Cola bottles flying around and become the "official drink of FIRST."

Student2: yet and think of all that free cola we can drink in the pits!

HINT, HINT, FIRST and Coca-Cola.

:D
I think you're onto something
On the site, in the link that Dave gave us, there are inflatable soda cans...perhaps.
Oh, and also. I'm sure I've mentioned this to several of you, but what about conveyer belts??? They add a degree of difficulty to the field if they go opposite the direction you want to go, and havent been used before. I.e.
_______________________________
| END ZONE |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| | B | | B | |
| | E | | E | |
| | L | | L | |
| | T | | T | |
| | | | | |
|____| |________| |_________| and thats half the field. Belt moves towards the top of this post.

miketwalker

29-12-2003, 09:03

All that because the C programming and it´s float points... ah.. I don´t know... calculating PI to measure distance between things, making exact calculations... there´s some point in that for sure...

I disagree. To have high accuracy, you need to have highly accurate motors and sensors as well. For most cases, your right... the new robot controller is nearly (afraid to say this word for reprucussions) infinite for the typical needs of a team. However, designing systems will always limit you. For example, look at WildStang's StangPS and I believe some other teams had similar systems.. they had a system to automatically drive their robots to specific "checkpoints" during autonomous and know where they were. Yes, they used a microchip controller on top of the stamp controller, but this year... we all have the controller... it just depends on how long you'll spend in the design of systems to create input to the robot controller to be worked with. This year's controller is VERY powerful, but I don't think FIRST is going to force all teams to have to design pretty complicated systems such as the StangPS, at least not this year... I think they will give us at least this year to get settled in with the new language, and any curves they might throw into autonomous if the rumors of autonomous being at the end or middle are true, those already will encourage more designing. Anymore would be too much for this year. Just my thoughts, anyone be glad to pop in and tell me I'm wrong on something though lol.

gsensel

29-12-2003, 16:46

I think you're onto something
On the site, in the link that Dave gave us, there are inflatable soda cans...perhaps.
Oh, and also. I'm sure I've mentioned this to several of you, but what about conveyer belts??? They add a degree of difficulty to the field if they go opposite the direction you want to go, and havent been used before.

Also perhaps the conveyor belts are only on for part of the match.

maxgebhardt

31-12-2003, 02:07

just glancing at the suppliers for this year, and something caught my eye, NYPRO is a sponser, they make custom molded plastic junk. maybe first designed its own object this year. also BEI which makes gyroscopes. they're a gold supplier this year, so maybe we'll get better gyros. this would make some sense if we were reaching into barrels where the operators cant see.
what I'm confused about is EBM sponsering on the platnum level, they make fans. why are they sponsoring... :confused:

RogerR

31-12-2003, 08:39

just glancing at the suppliers for this year, and something caught my eye, NYPRO is a sponser, they make custom molded plastic junk. maybe first designed its own object this year. such as custom made plastic bearing blocks, and drill motor mounts, like last year?

maxgebhardt

31-12-2003, 12:24

maybe, but that would hardly seem enough to become a platinum supplier. they might be making custom plastic oil bins, maybe shorter than normal.

Madison

31-12-2003, 12:44

maybe, but that would hardly seem enough to become a platinum supplier. they might be making custom plastic oil bins, maybe shorter than normal.

Making molds and casting about a dozen parts for each of more than 900 teams isn't that cheap, and since I'm sure it's all donated, I'd bet that qualifies.

Kevin Watson

31-12-2003, 14:02

what I'm confused about is EBM sponsering on the platnum level, they make fans. why are they sponsoring... :confused:
HMMmmm... Sliding friction coefficient of dry ice and fans... Where have I seen this odd combination before... Yeah, I remember! It was four or five months ago when I was in this really long, boring MER meeting when I noticed that Dave Lavery (ever the clown) had built a hovercraft using a toy fan, two AA batteries, paper clips, and a Krispy Kreme donut. It looked like Dave was trying to deliver it to Pete Theisinger ("the goal"), across the conference table (I remember thinking that if I was Pete, I wouldn't want to eat that donut after having all of those skanky paper clips inserted into it). Well, it looked to me like there wasn't enough lift 'cause the Krispy Kreme only made it half way across the table before the Krispy Kremes maple-flavored goo stuck it to the conference table. I then distinctly remember Dave mumbling something about maple-flavored goo not sticking to dry ice. Well, I didn't think too much of it at the time (Dave is always doing stuff like this in meetings), but now I'm not too sure that Dave was just experimenting with the latest fad in mobility platforms for Mars exploration...

-Kevin

Chris Fultz

31-12-2003, 17:14

We will have to climb stairs and then balance on a 55 gallon drum that is on its' side. Bonus points if you are on top of drum when time runs out.
And there are only 2 drums in a 3 robot competition game.

Roll your drum to your scoring are for an additional bonus point. :)

D@ve

31-12-2003, 18:16

I've been wanting to climb stairs for 4 years now and i'm still waiting :mad: ...Maybe this will be the year we all CLIMB to new hights!!!!! :D

dez250

31-12-2003, 18:57

HMMmmm... Sliding friction coefficient of dry ice and fans... Where have I seen this odd combination before... Yeah, I remember! It was four or five months ago when I was in this really long, boring MER meeting when I noticed that Dave Lavery (ever the clown) had built a hovercraft using a toy fan, two AA batteries, paper clips, and a Krispy Kreme donut. It looked like Dave was trying to deliver it to Pete Theisinger ("the goal"), across the conference table (I remember thinking that if I was Pete, I wouldn't want to eat that donut after having all of those skanky paper clips inserted into it). Well, it looked to me like there wasn't enough lift 'cause the Krispy Kreme only made it half way across the table before the Krispy Kremes maple-flavored goo stuck it to the conference table. I then distinctly remember Dave mumbling something about maple-flavored goo not sticking to dry ice. Well, I didn't think too much of it at the time (Dave is always doing stuff like this in meetings), but now I'm not too sure that Dave was just experimenting with the latest fad in mobility platforms for Mars exploration...

-Kevin

Kevin, dont forget that the true reason Dave [Lavery] likes Krispy Kreme's is cause in space his devices wouldn't feel the drag from them while delivering to the I.S.S. or Mars!
~Mike

aziandorkess

01-01-2004, 01:15

umm.. i think the suppliers listed on their website were from 2003... i don't think they released the list of suppliers for 2004 yet. btw, coca-cola is sponsoring the georgia dome... pepsi's not listed.
foam would be very interesting... i was thinking about easter eggs but there are a lot of reasons why they wouldn't use it... i think stairs are probable... as long as it doesn't act like the ramp last year. gah. anyways... hope it's really interesting. like the clown idea. =P

pauluffel

01-01-2004, 15:25

The autonomous definately needs to be more difficult to challenge the experienced teams out here, but if there is just more time spent in autonomous or it is at the end, it would be even more damaging to teams that are having trouble making the physical parts of their robot work properly, not to mention any complex programming. I'm thinking that the autonomous period will come at the end, but will affect scoring, such as any points scored during the autonomous period at the end will be be given a multiplier of 2 (like double salary for overtime, get it, overtime?....). This way it the autonomous would be very helpful for teams that could get it done, but it wouldn't hurt you too badly if you couldn't get your root to do anything productive by itself.

Should have thought of this back when we could propose game ideas, anyhow, I think there will be some sort of different weighting to the autonomous period, rather than just having it as a head start (though this would probably be a nightmare for refs).

maxgebhardt

01-01-2004, 17:12

If they do put auto mode at the end I think it is very well possible that all you need to do is get the robot into a team zone, then a small human period is allowed to ensure the robot is oriented correctly. this could solve issues caused by the robot not being correctly alligned at the end.

greencelery115

06-01-2004, 17:41

Madison

06-01-2004, 17:57

Okay, so it's probably not necessary to go around posting the same thing in three different threads or whatever.

Just sayin'.

danielkitchener

06-01-2004, 20:34

greencelery115 writes "Vmax = 10 ft/sec

Yes, there are two paths you can go by
But in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on." (official clue from first blast email)

velocity maximum? * perhaps something to do with the field setup?

With the clue words "two paths, long run, and time to change the road" I think something funny is going to happen to the timing system...maybe a modification of the field to provide two pathways (perhaps one short and not able to modify itself, or one long...or elevated fields...). I wonder why they mentioned "long run". This is really bothering me.
Perhaps autonomous mode is optional - you can either choose to activate autonomous, and extend the amount of time you have to do stuff by 15 seconds (activate by 1:45 in a 2-minute match, autonomous turns on at 1:45 and stays on til 2:15) or choose to have less time (2 minutes) but with full robot control...Ah well. All we can do is wait til Saturday

maxgebhardt

06-01-2004, 20:35

"Vmax = 10 ft/sec

Yes, there are two paths you can go by
But in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on." (official clue from first blast email)

velocity maximum? * perhaps something to do with the field setup?

With the clue words "two paths, long run, and time to change the road" I think something funny is going to happen to the timing system...maybe a modification of the field to provide two pathways (perhaps one short and not able to modify itself, or one long...or elevated fields...). I wonder why they mentioned "long run". This is really bothering me.
what about if the robots start on the side of the field in a seprate 'road' thats blocked off from the main field except for an opening near the middle of the field and have a long auto mode where they go from the start position to the middle of the field. like a seperate starting zone. that would give an incentive to have a fast robot, and maybe max speed will be set. also if oppiset teams robots needed to go thru the same opening, it might mean you need to program a contingency in auto mode in case both robots get stuck in the exit. there would also be 'two roads' if its 2v2, so you can work with your alliance as to which robot will be on each side, and who will face the robot on the other alliance.

JohnBoucher

06-01-2004, 20:42

I read the hints and the bom and I believe I see a giant rodent wheel of sorts

maxgebhardt

06-01-2004, 20:48

I read the hints and the bom and I believe I see a giant rodent wheel of sorts
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=204141#post204141
your in the wrong forum mister!

Elgin Clock

07-01-2004, 12:37

Now all we have to do is figure out how where the drums will be in relation to the stairs and then what we will be having to do in autonomous at the end of the match.
Dare I say.. Donkey Kong?? lol

Drums, and "two paths you can go by" - Stairs and Ramps!! lol

JP_1163

07-01-2004, 12:43

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

;)

khwoodside

07-01-2004, 16:17

Perhaps autonomous mode is optional - you can either choose to activate autonomous, and extend the amount of time you have to do stuff by 15 seconds (activate by 1:45 in a 2-minute match, autonomous turns on at 1:45 and stays on til 2:15) or choose to have less time (2 minutes) but with full robot control...Ah well. All we can do is wait til Saturday

thats kinda odd... cuz one of our team mentors had that same thought... but he may have gotten it from here... i dont know :confused: ... another thought of his was that maybe they do something to the point multiplyer based on the length of time you spend in autonomous...

also... weve been kinda thinkin that the field may be some kind of maze with movable gates... which would account for the long run and change of paths

DaBruteForceGuy

07-01-2004, 16:32

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=204141#post204141
your in the wrong forum mister!

haha yes i made that thread for a reason.... so that i could put wt i rly think in a forum liek this....
That BOM seems to have a lot of wood, and the toilette flanges along with that pipe tell me there will be some srt of bar to hang from... those wheels are curios too, rather than stair i believe there will be some sort of puck that we will be able to climb on..... all those pvc pipes brings back memorie of 2002's game so i see big balls and a big goal.....

... forgive me if this was already posted i havn;t had time to read the whole thread

maxgebhardt

07-01-2004, 17:01

you know that the clue is verbatim a line from Stairway to Heaven by zepplin...

Elgin Clock

09-01-2004, 12:24

you know that the clue is verbatim a line from Stairway to Heaven by zepplin...
:rolleyes: I'm not going to even say anything...

Buster

09-01-2004, 13:30

Since I already typed this somewhere else, please go HERE (http://www.team237.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=55#55) and read my hints on what I think the game will consist of in 2004.

If you have any guesses what my guess is, please feel free to share them here!!!

Oh, and I will reveal what I know (or don't know) on Monday so keep checking back at that link to see what I think FIRST has in store for us in 2004.

Elgin
:)

MY IDEA THAT WAS THOUGHT OUT FOR A LONG TIME........
A robot racing up/down a feight of stairs, then moving an obect up/down and repeating for an extended time until one team either gets all of the objects, or time runs out and one team has the most. alliances? There's a possibility. and more than two robots competing at once time is also believable. It is also possible that the objects that are being moved can be stolen or "borrowed" but that's just my interpertation of the hint and everyone's ideas. Might be the answer, then again it might not be. It's just my opinion. :yikes: