single stick drive

[Andrew Schuetze]

I am interested in hearing from teams who past/currently using a signle stick control but not of the traditional type type control.

12 o'clock = both motors full forward
6 o'clock = both motors full reverse
1:30 = right side stop left side 3/4 full forward
3 o'clock = right side full reverse left side full forward

repeat for all for quadrandts to yield a slow turn radius or a hard turn/spin. Of course all stop = stick in dead center.


If you have not considered this type of control, what are your thoughts...


APS :yikes:

[Greg Needel]

i know teams have done this in the past but the reson none of the teams i have been associted have done it is the fact that it is not as intuative controls as aposed to tank stearing, thus your drive teams alot more practice over regular controls...but it has been done and sucessfully if i remember correctly

[Aignam]

I am interested in hearing from teams who past/currently using a signle stick control but not of the traditional type type control.

12 o'clock = both motors full forward
6 o'clock = both motors full reverse
1:30 = right side stop left side 3/4 full forward
3 o'clock = right side full reverse left side full forward

repeat for all for quadrandts to yield a slow turn radius or a hard turn/spin. Of course all stop = stick in dead center.


If you have not considered this type of control, what are your thoughts...


APS :yikes:
If I'm not mistaken, tank drive, or two joystick control, allows for more precision when driving and turning. I've driven robots with single stick drive (303 2003). It wasn't terribly hard to drive, but I felt more comfortable with tank drive, whether this is because tank drive generally is more comfortable, or because I'm used to tank drive.

[Aignam]

i know teams have done this in the past but the reson none of the teams i have been associted have done it is the fact that it is not as intuative controls as aposed to tank stearing, thus your drive teams alot more practice over regular controls...but it has been done and sucessfully if i remember correctly
Oh, it has certainly been done. I wonder what percentage of teams use Single Stick Drive as opposed to Tank Drive. Someone should start a poll...;)

[KenWittlief]

I think there was a poll on this a while ago and the result was that far MORE teams use single stick instead of two.

there is no combination of inputs you can get from two sticks that you cant get from one - and I would say using one stick IS more intuitive - you want to go fowards, you push it forwards, you want to spin right you push it right, you want to go forwards and right, you push it forwards and right - what could possibly be more intuitive than that?

two other advantages - the one stick stepup gives you a 'turn' command signal that you can use in conjunction with a yaw rate sensor to close the loop on steering

and one stick frees up the drivers other hand for another control, to point at the field, to scratch his nose...

and you can use the superfulous second joystick for some other function on the bot, like controlling a robot arm and claw.

[Vladimir]

We used single stick drive last year. I was the programmer and driver so I chose it because it's what I am used to (after playing video games) and it freed up my other hand to operate another function. While demoing the bot at state fair I tried another team's robot which used tank drive. After trying both I'd have to say that neither one is easier nor harder, neither one is better. Anything that can be done with one can be done with the other. It's just a driver preference thing. It's easy to program both ways so just try them and see what the driver likes and can do the most with.

[Ashley Weed]

Three years I drove single stick drive. For any new teams, or teams trying to decide I would suggest going with single stick for the two main reasons of having the free hand for other functions, and the simplicity of moving the joystick the way you want the robot moved.

In 2002 due to the direction I was going to run our tandem. My stick was in opposite quandrants as the standerd. (Ex: 6:00 - was full forward). Also, we used a similar set-up for our arms in 2001 on the joystick. Anyone who is used to flight simulators would be much more familiar with such settings.

[pras870]

I remember the first year our team used single stick drive, and it didn't work out too well. We found that, although many people i'm sure will disagree with this, u have more control and steering ability with 2 joysticks. It allows for cleaner turns and such, and you can control the speed of the turn a lot easier as well. Just my opinion, as i' sure a lot of people have them.

[Phil_Lutz]

Why not use a triger to switch you from 1 stick to 2 stick mode?.....

[pras870]

and I ask you, what would be the point of switching midway through a match?

[KenWittlief]

u have more control and steering ability with 2 joysticks....

I dont know how people get this impression. with either one OR two joystick control, you can get the full range of commands to both left and right motors- from 0 to 254 and every possible combinations of commands in between.

so you dont have finer control, or more options or more control with 2 joysticks OR with one

its only a matter of how the robot interpretes the input signals

[Mercutio]

i think the decision between single-stick and dual-stick is mostly one of personal preference. now that i think about it, single-stick might be more intuitive for new drivers, but i feel weird driving anything but dual-stick, and dual may give you more precise control.

if the driver needs more controls and both his hands are full, you should consider foot pedals. read ALL of Section 4 of the OI reference guide (http://www.innovationfirst.com/firstrobotics/pdfs/FR-2004-OI_Ref_Guide_2003-12-19.pdf) to make sure you understand how everything should be wired, and then build a pedal with a potentiometer, pushbuttons, or some other method of input and hook it to the appropriate port. a good application of foot pedals might be to control retractable casters -- your foot goes down, the casters go down. very intuitive. use your imagination! extra points if you have a pedal labeled "distortion" that makes the robot play Jimi Hendrix cds REALLY LOUD! :D

~Aaron

[pras870]

like I said, it's only an opinion, personally I feel it should be up to whatever the driver on the team is comfortable with. If he feels he has more control with 1, and the same with if he feels he has more control with 2. I realize you can get the same range from 1 as you can 2, but I personally felt more maneuverability with 2 joysticks. Heck, i've even seen teams use steering wheels to drive, its all preference.

[Mercutio]

sorry bout the double post, but people tend to post while i'm writing and i have to respond... :rolleyes: of course, someone posted while i was writing this, so now it isn't a double post.


with either one OR two joystick control, you can get the full range of commands to both left and right motors- from 0 to 254 and every possible combinations of commands in between.
true, but for me it's easier to tell how much power each side of the robot has with two joysticks. i can say, "okay, my left hand is all the way forward and my right hand is halfway back, so the left motor is going full forward and the right motor is going at half speed in reverse." with a single stick, you can't control the motors independently from one another -- at least, not without a lot of practice.

~Aaron

[Aignam]

You can hit every command with one joystick as you can hit with 2. But sometimes to hit the command with one joystick, it wouldn't be as intuitive as it would be to hit the command with two. We could argue over this forever. My suggestion: Let the driver pick which he's most comfortable with, train him with those controls, and don't look back on your decision.

[Mercutio]

if some of your drivers prefer single-stick and some prefer dual, put a toggle switch on a custom box that will switch between the two. (like i said before, read ALL of Section 4 of the OI reference guide (http://www.innovationfirst.com/firstrobotics/pdfs/FR-2004-OI_Ref_Guide_2003-12-19.pdf) to find out about custom input.)

[Ashley Weed]

I never had the opportunity to drive with two sticks. I was wondering if someone could explain the set up to me. Does stick one go only forward and backwards, and stick two go left and right?

[Adam Y.]

Does stick one go only forward and backwards, and stick two go left and right?
Each stick controls only one motor. The left stick controls the left motor and the right stick controls the right motor.