International Team Troubles

[Jacqui Sutton]

I have just recently noticed that again, this year, the international teams seem to be struggling to get their hands on all the necessary materials for competition - the accessability of which most teams in the U.S.A probably take for granted. Last year was my first year involved with FIRST, and the brittish team was unable to get the bins used in competition, because they had no walmart. I dont know if the teams from brazil were able to or not? We never saw a cry out for help - but that doesnt necessarily mean that they were able to access them, it's possible that they might have just done the best they could without them... this year the teams from brazil can't get the balls used for competition - and I'm assuming that the britts probably cant either? Unfortunately I'm not online as much as I'd like to be, and so i havent been able to speak much with my team members from last year, but I must say - I was so proud when I saw that 388 is offering a hand to these teams again, when they're struggling to get the financial resources just to look after their own team, let along teams in other countries.. - Justin, Leigh, wherever you guys are - tell 388 im proud :-)

Anyway, that's off my point... My point is, has anyone made FIRST aware of the difficulty that the international teams have each year in attaining the saim equiptment that is made available to all US teams? Is it possible that FIRST is unaware of their struggles, or are they just unable to do anything about it? The people at FIRST seem capable of achieving anything that they work for - so I dont see why this would be an impossible task... so what do we need to do to get something done about it? The international teams have extra challenges already - transport, no other teams close by to mentor them, shipping... it is all a lot more involved and expensive than it is within the states. I'm more than willing to draft up a document to send to FIRST - however they must get so much stuff coming in, i have a fear it would get lost in translation - but I'd be willing to give it a try anyway, unless anyone has any better ideas...?

[Raul]

If every team ships them one ball uniflated, they can get a whole bunch in a hurry. Just tell me their address and I will ship one.

OK, maybe everyone who is shipping one should state it here so they do not get 300 balls. I will send a red one if I get an address.

I suggest you contact Aiden Browne, Jason Morella and/or Dave Lavery to get a more direct line to FIRST.

[IMDWalrus]

I have no idea how this works, so if it's a stupid question, I apologize.

How do the international teams get their Kit of Parts? I'm assuming that FIRST has some kind of arrangement to ship the KOP to the teams. It's probably far too late for this year's game, but maybe FIRST could ship playing pieces to the international teams with the KOP. If we end up using pieces like the Rubbermaid bins from last year's game again, the cost for shipping would probably be high. If the pieces are like this year's balls, however, I really don't think shipping some deflated balls with the KOP would be a problem.

Not sure if this is even feasible, as FIRST has enough problems dealing with all of the American and Canadian teams. :) Still, it would be nice, wouldn't it?

[Manoel]

Jacqui,

Very aproppriate post! :)
Last year both Brazilian teams went to the kickoff and bought the bins in Walmart. This year there are three teams from Brazil, and only two of them went to the Manchester Kickoff.
We (#383) managed to send some red balls to our representatives and they brought the balls with them in the plane.
Mr. Todd Lovelace from team #86 graciously volunteered to send us the big yellow balls, and I suggested to the other two Brazilian teams to try the same. As I haven't seen any post from them regarding this subject, I wonder if they already found a solution to their problem. I'll show them the link to this discussion.
Raul's solution seems a good one, except it's probably better to stuff more balls in the package, as the flat international rate is very high. I'm sure the payment details can be arranged between teams (Paypal is great :))

[leigh388]

Jacqui,

Your alma mater has taken care of the Brazilian teams. We are supposed to ship 20 balls to each of the two teams that were unable to have Palos sports ship them directly to Brazil. I do agree that the International teams are at quite a disadvantage, but if teams work together, in the true spirit of FIRST, hopefully in the end it will all work.

[Aidan F. Browne]

Jacqui,

Although I won't claim to know FIRST's official stance on this matter, I can tell you that FIRST is more aware of this issue than you can even imagine.

Shipping and receiving goods across US borders has become a very involved process for an organization inside the US. (For very good reasons of course.) It is much more than just Fedexing the goods out the door. There are complications involving the US Department of State (import and export agreements have to be in place) and the new Department of US Customs and Border Protection -- there is lots of paperwork involved.

FIRST deals with this constantly in trying to bring many of the parts that you received in the kit into the country. They have also dealt with it in shipping the kits out of the country to the international teams. So, I honestly don't think they need to be told what to do on this topic.

Now please remember.... [Aidan's opinion here]... FIRST was started for a very clear purpose: to increase the level of interest in Science and Technologies amounst kids in the United States. If you listen to Dean Kamen's speeches, he emphasizes that. FIRST is experimenting with some international teams - which is great - but it is certainly not their focus.

The fact that teams recognize that they can help each other is one of the most awesome parts of FIRST. And there is no difference whether a team in domestic or international. But I disagree with the suggestion that FIRST needs to do anything special for the international teams, other than get them their kits. The aid can come from all the other "mentoring" teams out there... just like it might have to for a team in Podunk, XX (fill in state here) who has no Walmart or Home Depot -- just the corner hardware store.

So help away! Do what you can to help other teams -- no matter what side of the border they are on. But don't ask the Manchester Crew to do more... I can't even figure out how they do what they already do!

:)

Aidan (who realizes he just spent more than 2 cents at the penny store)

[JVN]

... just like it might have to for a team in Podunk, XX (fill in state here) who has no Walmart or Home Depot -- just the corner hardware store.
Podunk, XX = Potsdam, NY?

;)

[Aidan F. Browne]

No John -- you have a Walmart 20 miles away... a lowes 50 miles away... and a home depot 80 miles away! (over the border in ottawa)... hardly Podunk :p

[tchescow]

First of all, I'd like to thank team #383 (specially Justin and Leigh) for sending us the balls and for all the support provided regarding this issue. :D About the whole question... yes, we're still facing some trouble to find some materials that are not available in Brazil, but with the help that is being provided by all the teams and the people at FIRST, I'm glad to say that we're dealing with it pretty well, altough there is still a long way to go. I do believe that this won't be a problem next year (they won't commit the same mistake three times! :p ). The international teams (maybe the whole process of admiting international teams) are still on the first steps of the ladder and there is still a lot of unknown problems to come, but I'm sure that we'll face them, togheter, just like we're doing right now. All we say right now is thanks so much for everything and know that we won't measure efforts to help in anyway we can, that's what it's all about, isn't it? :)

[Justin Stiltner]

If there is anything else we can help you out with . such as getting something avalible here and not there, then just let us know, it would be easy to put it in the box with the balls.... talk about packing material, all rubber.

[Chris Fultz]

It might be too late for the 2004 season, but maybe CD can generate a listing of US teams that would be willing to 'sponsor' a foreign team. In te fall, the sponsor and sponsee would be linked up to start communication.

The sponsor would agree to purchase and ship any necessary extras (bins, balls, etc.) to the foreign team. What a great way to build an international bond. If a sponsoring team needed some help, because the cost was going to be very high, then they could recruit ofhter local teams to elp them.

Most major companies deal with the export rules on a regular basis, so teams with a multi-national corporate sponsor could use the company experts to get things thru. Maybe the company would even pay the shipping if they knew what it was for.

I think to get on the list of sponsoring teams, we would have to require that the designated team leader commit - a team would be committing dollars and energy and would need full support to make it happen. Put Cyber Blue - 234 on the list (I hope you agree, Mr. Ritchie).

Regarding the comment on FIRST and US Engineers, I agree the focus is on the US, but the need for engineers worldwide cannot be ignored. For US companies to be successful in the world markets, there have to be people in-county who can work with, understand and maintain the products. It does no good to ship a high tech product (like a turbine engine) to a country if they have no skill or capability to maintain it. Many countries also require "local content" on new products and contracts - that local content can be materials or labor, including engineers. We need to keep a broad reach and do everything we can to create a worldwide FIRST.

[Bruce C.]

Podunk, XX = Potsdam, NY?

;)

So, Potsdam is still not Silicon Valley, east, I guess? :)

Bruce C.
BSEE
CCT Class of '70

[tchescow]

It's a nice idea. It can be improoved. It would be nice if american teams could provide materials to the international teams. The main problem is not the financial problem, regarding to shipment and everything, the main problem is to find everything... so if the american teams could only buy and ship the materials and be repayed later, it would be a great evolution. That's what 388 is doing with us. They bought and shipped the balls, and we'll pay all the costs.

[Guilherme]

I appreciate your help, thanks for your concern.

We´re attending the J&J MidAtlantic Regional Event, Trenton NJ.

We had a meeting now, with all team members and their parents, and we´re looking for the cheapest hotels around the event. To be more precise, we´re looking for hotels that can support 4 persons per room (to make it cheaper).

The hotel doesn´t need to be too close to the event, but not too far. We´re renting Vans for transportation.

It would really help a lot if someone that is aware of all possibilites of hotel rentals in the area. I´d aprecciate if someone has any information about van rentals. We already know some rental companies, but there´s always the most affordable one and the closer one.

[Guilherme]

Ok, Please reply the last post here http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=24397

About the balls: the main problem is not buying the balls, but shipping it to Brazil. For instance: the balls total cost is U$ 100,00, and the fees and taxes (Brazil customs) exceeds U$ 100,00! So the final cost jumped from U$ 100,00 to U$ 200,00. We can ship in U$ 50,00 packages, to avoid taxes. But the shipping cost is around U$ 150,00. So, we´re trying to give the balls to someone to bring. J&J representatives comes from USA to São Paulo every week, team 1382 who´s working with us in this issue, is sponsored by J&J.

So, that´s a really hard issue to handle. For instance: EVERY single piece of the "missing parts" has to be documented, and a lot of paperwork has to be filled. Just to have an idea: we forgot to fill out a paper when we brought the kit, our penalty was a U$ 2000,00 fee, a very nice "gift" from our government (I´m sure there´re penalties in the importation process in USA too). And that would and surelly will happen with small parts sent from the "missing parts" list, and also would happen with the balls, if we don´t follow the rules. Everything is difficult and has to be handled with care. A simple process of sending balls turns in a ton of emails, paperwork, taxes and fees.

There´s no walmart around the corner (walmart is more than 20,000 miles away).

Please notice: we´re not complaining about anything, we´re just giving a s small picture of what are our dificulties.

We have no extra time, we´re working hard day and night, the deadlines are the same as all other teams. Very soon (2005) we´ll have a FIRST foundation in Brazil, and this foundation will make all importation process better and faster.

Also in 2005 we expect to have a regional event in Brazil! We will be REALLY glad to help ALL teams that wish to come here, to support them ... anyway, it will be a pleasure. We´re working hard to make this come true.

I´d like to thank all teams for their efforts and concern with international teams, specially team 007 and 388.

[tchescow]

Sorry for the huge mistake! Here are the correct first lines of my previous post.

First of all, I'd like to thank team #388 (specially Justin and Leigh) for sending us the balls and for all the support provided regarding this issue.

Thanks again to 388, you're awesome, and sorry for the mistake.

[Joe Ross]

Several years ago, the Hawaiian teams had trouble getting parts from small parts (the only place you could buy extra parts). It took a year or two for everything to get worked out, and that ended up being one of the reasons why you can get parts from anywhere now.

Know that as long as you let FIRST know, they will work towards a solution, although it often takes longer then you wish.

[Sally]

We get our KOP shipped over by Fedex, though it costs us about £450 (that's about $816.545 apparantly).

We've had a huge difficulty in obtaining the balls. We first contacted a supplier who confirmed our order, but then sent us an email saying "Sorry but we don't ship to Canada"
?!
So far we've still had no luck in obtaining anything suitable :(

Sally
Team 759 (The British :) )

[Justin Stiltner]

Sally,
IM pretty shure that we could help you out also if you wanted.. but honestly evean teams in the us can no longer get the exact game ball... only one that is close... so id say you would be better off just going around to sporting goods stores and such there with the one ball you have and find somthing as close as possable. Palos Sport's supply has been depleted by all the requests and they dont expect to have them in for a long time.

[tribotec_ca88]

Wow, it´s satisfying to know that teams from north america are worried about our *issues*...thanks so much for considering our problems!!
Yes, shipping parts is quite a handful: not only is it expensive but it takes time...we haven´t been able to proceed constructing our robot due to many delays when its comes to ordering parts. Actually, we only have 5 weeks because we presume it´ll take longer than expected to ship our robot & have it arrive in time for our regional (New Jersey!).
However, thanks to a certain team <> u know who u r! we appreciate your help <> our balls are due to arrive this week...

We´re glad to hear that so many are willing to help! Thanx!!!

[Sally]

When did you receive your KOP in Brazil? We didn't get ours until 21st January

[Guilherme]

Brazil had a remote kick-off.

The event was organized, all issues concerning the transfer of the kit was very hard due to customs burocracy. I myself saw all this process, it was very dificult.

Due to all organization of the event, and due to all previous work before january 10th (in fact serveral weeks) of our FIRST Regional Director, Ivan Jorge Boesing, we received our kits in january 13rd.

I´d like to thank Ivan for all efforts, in other case, the kits would have arrived much latter, maybe after january 21st.

In 2002, team 383 received the kit 10 days later the kick off event...

[Sally]

yeah, it sounded like it was a lot of hard work from what I've read.

There's only one British team unfortunately, so I don't think there's very much chance of us having a remote kickoff for ourselves lol

[IMDWalrus]

yeah, it sounded like it was a lot of hard work from what I've read.

There's only one British team unfortunately, so I don't think there's very much chance of us having a remote kickoff for ourselves lol
There probably won't be, unless you're willing to hold the kickoff for yourselves. :)

[Redhead Jokes]

It might be too late for the 2004 season, but maybe CD can generate a listing of US teams that would be willing to 'sponsor' a foreign team. In te fall, the sponsor and sponsee would be linked up to start communication.
I think to get on the list of sponsoring teams, we would have to require that the designated team leader commit - a team would be committing dollars and energy and would need full support to make it happen. Put Cyber Blue - 234 on the list (I hope you agree, Mr. Ritchie).


Put us on the list!

[team_383]

In 2002, team 383 received the kit 10 days later the kick off event...

Actually, we received the kit in about two or three days after the kickoff, when our representatives came back from the U.S.

Fernanda - Student

[Denman]

I would just like to say huge thanks to team 388 (i think) for supplying us brits over the pond with the balls that we managed to locate (i can't remember the location now :rolleyes: )((just found it http://www.thesportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1219283&cp&searchId=5322554032&keywords=playground+balls&y=8&x=6&parentPage=search ))
They have been incredably usefull for practise, the balls have surivived longer than the goal though :rolleyes:
Thanks a lot :cool: