Team 61 2004 robot

[Mike Norton]

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2004.htm

Pictures will be posted daily on or web site.

If you have any question on any piece please e-mail and I will try to get a better picture or I will explain it.

[157#1Driver]

where do you get them rims for the tracks?

[Mike Norton]

where do you get them rims for the tracks?



We made them from the Breco Flex pulleys.

We have a Junior named Eric in Drafting that designed them and brought them across the hall to the machine shop and had them cut out. He does all the programing of the CNC and Bridgeport machines.

[Arefin Bari]

i like those rims... those are sweeeeet.... great job guys...

[BillyGoats]

i like those rims... those are sweeeeet.... great job guys...

Thanks

[Nick Mac]

Those are really cool. Were they extremely hard to do? They look so perfect in the pictures.

[BillyGoats]

Those are really cool. Were they extremely hard to do? They look so perfect in the pictures.

Well the advantage of going to a tech school is that you have a machine shop and drafting shop that can work on it all day, it was drawn out in drafting in CAD and then brought across the hall to machine shop where they programed it in to one of the drills.

So to answer your question where they hard to make, in some ways yes it was and some ways it was not.

[Alaina]

Is that a wooden bot I see? A very snazzy wooden bot? What made you choose wood? My team had a wooden bot last year but that was because we didn't have access to a machine shop but it seems you are working in one...
Good choice, never the less... :]

[BillyGoats]

Is that a wooden bot I see? A very snazzy wooden bot? What made you choose wood? My team had a wooden bot last year but that was because we didn't have access to a machine shop but it seems you are working in one...
Good choice, never the less... :]

Check out all of our previous robots, all wood even tho some may not look like it. We use the same base every year. It has been proven to take a beating and keep going, never once had a problem with a base. Again going to a tech school has it's perks all we have to do it go down to Carpentry and they do it out for us. The only changes you may see is the front slots cut out so we are able to go up a ramp or another type of task.

Here is an example of one that does not look wooden but it is.

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2002.htm

[Solace]

Is that a wooden bot I see? A very snazzy wooden bot? What made you choose wood? My team had a wooden bot last year but that was because we didn't have access to a machine shop but it seems you are working in one...
Good choice, never the less... :]

hey, don't be dissing the plywood! there are a few cool looking plywood bots around. remember this one (http://www.firstrobotics.net/03gallery/pages/0571-1_jpg.htm) or this one (http://www.firstrobotics.net/03gallery/pages/0173-1_jpg.htm)? Our team has access to a machine shop, yet we also go with the wooden chassis every year.

[SpaceOsc]

hey, don't be dissing the plywood! there are a few cool looking plywood bots around. remember this one (http://www.firstrobotics.net/03gallery/pages/0571-1_jpg.htm) or this one (http://www.firstrobotics.net/03gallery/pages/0173-1_jpg.htm)? Our team has access to a machine shop, yet we also go with the wooden chassis every year.


2003 RAGE 173 bot Was Made out of WOOD?

[Tom Bottiglieri]

hey solace.. dont be forgettin about the cyber knights .. :) ck2003 (http://www.pbase.com/image/12932422) ..well we used baltic birch which was pretty much indestructable. Yes, it is heavy and expensive lol, but we never had a problem with it in 4 years.

[Eric Bareiss]

I applaud team 61 for posting pics of their robot early. Most teams are too afraid that someone will steal their design. I think that this is something that needs to change. Chiefdelphi is supposed to be about sharing.

If you have a good idea, share it. If someone else uses it, good.

[Alaina]

hey, don't be dissing the plywood! there are a few cool looking plywood bots around. remember this one (http://www.firstrobotics.net/03gallery/pages/0571-1_jpg.htm) or this one (http://www.firstrobotics.net/03gallery/pages/0173-1_jpg.htm)? Our team has access to a machine shop, yet we also go with the wooden chassis every year.
*gasps* I think I'd die before I dissed a plywood robot!
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of this one (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/pictures.php?s=&action=single&picid=4476&direction=DESC&sort=date&perrow=4&trows=3&quiet=Verbose). ;)

That's muh Spicy!

[BFFRK]

I applaud team 61 for posting pics of their robot early. Most teams are too afraid that someone will steal their design. I think that this is something that needs to change. Chiefdelphi is supposed to be about sharing.

If you have a good idea, share it. If someone else uses it, good.
Thank you for your surport in what we are doing. The way I see it is, with all teams throwing ideas around, if another team uses what you do, then you know your doing something right. PLus even with posting alot of pics doesn;t mean it can be copied, everything that is made is tested, worked on, tested agian, changed, tested, changed, test, till its done.... there is nothing wrong with taking a peek, or sharing, cuz it gonna be hard to get the same results from just lookoing at a pic, so yea, i do to believe other teams should be sharing

[JVN]

2003 RAGE 173 bot Was Made out of WOOD?
Rage has built their chassis out of wood for several years now. (At least as far back as 1999 I believe). They do a heck of a job, and prove to all of us "metal heads" that timber can be competitive too!

JVN

[Mike Norton]

Fresh new robot pictures. One gear box with both Chip motors in them.

Raw power on both side of robot now.


still lots to come. Who said kids can't build a good robot with out engineers.


http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2004.htm

[dlavery]

OK, I have just GOT TO KNOW how you are going to use the Whimhurst machine on your robot!!! I am thinking that you are building an electrostatic rail gun to launch the small balls from your opponent's end of the field straight into your own ball corral!

And don't even think of using the old "it just another non-robot project" excuse. :)

-dave

[Cory]

Very nice simple gearbox for those CIM's. Im always amazed at the pounding that your wooden robots take. I know what you showed us probably wasnt the final version, but you do know that you cannot use the 2002 CIM motors, right?

Cory

[BillyGoats]

OK, I have just GOT TO KNOW how you are going to use the Whimhurst machine on your robot!!! I am thinking that you are building an electrostatic rail gun to launch the small balls from your opponent's end of the field straight into your own ball corral!

And don't even think of using the old "it just another non-robot project" excuse. :)

-dave

The non robot project is for VICA one of my fellow class mates will use that this year. It will produce around 18-24inch sparks so it will be pretty cool to watch when its fully done

[Jon K.]

2003 RAGE 173 bot Was Made out of WOOD?
Yeah we have quite a few wood bases from over the years and other random mechanisms just lying around our shop. I think the plywood goes back even further then 99' not sure though. We have a lot of pictures and I will go through them to see when it started if I can, but we also have a few people who were there when the team started 10 years ago so I will ask them too. Also we have only ever had one problem with the plywood breaking as far as I know and that was at last years UTC New England Regional. I will have to find a pic of it somewhere and post it up here if it isn't already. This is one of the bot while being fixed. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/pictures.php?s=&action=single&picid=4427&direction=DESC&sort=date&perrow=4&trows=3&quiet=Verbose)
this is the other one (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/pictures.php?s=&action=single&picid=5993&direction=DESC&sort=date&perrow=4&trows=3&quiet=Verbose)

[Greg Needel]

anyone remember these.....alll wooden bases




http://www.geocities.com/phishhooker/robots.txt

[Mr. Van]

Wow! Thanks for posting your pictures!

It looks like you are driving one side of your treads with two paired Drills, and the other side with two paired CIMs. These combinations clearly yield different torques at the same speeds. How do you deal with that?

Also, as has been pointed out, FIRST did say that using the CIM motor with the geared output shaft and the coupling gear that came with the kit in 2002 is not legal this year... Just hope you are aware.

Best of luck!

-Mr. Van
Coach, 599
RoboDox

[BillyGoats]

Wow! Thanks for posting your pictures!

It looks like you are driving one side of your treads with two paired Drills, and the other side with two paired CIMs. These combinations clearly yield different torques at the same speeds. How do you deal with that?

Also, as has been pointed out, FIRST did say that using the CIM motor with the geared output shaft and the coupling gear that came with the kit in 2002 is not legal this year... Just hope you are aware.

Best of luck!

Well we found out the hard way that the drills turn on earlier (i belive) then the CIM's. So what was happening was we would bend out shafts pretty bad so what we did was put the CIM's on one side and the drills on the other, there is a little difference but nothing our drivers can not fix. Also the only other difference is the CIM's roll after you let off the joy stick where the Drills stop right away.

All and all it worked very well for us last year and hope for the same this year.

Not sure about the coupling of the output shaft rule or what ever so I'm not even going to attempt to answer...

[Mike Norton]

More pictures have been posted

check out our landing gear. We will be flying this year, more ways than one


http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/images/2004Pictures/2004_24wheels2.JPG


http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2004.htm

[BillyGoats]

More pictures have been posted

check out our landing gear. We will be flying this year, more ways than one


http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/images/2004Pictures/2004_24wheels2.JPG


http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2004.htm

O oh Mr. Norton we forgot the wings and the huge propeller.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

everything looks great.. one quick question tho.. y not just run a CIM with a drill instead of 2 CIM's and 2 drills. That seems like it would be way to hard to get to balance out correctly, plus one side is driving in reverse.

[BillyGoats]

everything looks great.. one quick question tho.. y not just run a CIM with a drill instead of 2 CIM's and 2 drills. That seems like it would be way to hard to get to balance out correctly, plus one side is driving in reverse.

Nope, did it last year and it ran GREAT!!

[Gui Cavalcanti]

The robot looks great, but those CIMs are illegal.

The ruling this year is that motors have to be exactly the same as those provided in the kit to be used on the robot. The CIMs provided this year have an 8mm shaft with a 2mm keyway cut in them, as did the motors from 2003. When we got the original CIMs in 2002, they had a geared output with those pressed-metal mating gears, like those you have in the picture. However, they are no longer legal with this year's ruling.

Sorry to break it to you, but better to find out now than at a much worse time.

[Mike Norton]

take a closer look at the new motors. We been in this game for ten years I hope we know the rules as well as others.

[Cory]

Ok Mike, since you obviously dont believe that we know what we're talking about, and you apparently have no desire to confirm this on your own, I'll do it for you. (Please note, we arent trying to be rude, we're trying to help you!)

First, let us visit "5.3.1 FIRST Provided Kit of Parts
FIRST provides each team a Kit of Parts. Only the exact parts provided in the Kit (or their exact replacement)
are considered as Kit Parts."

That motor was not in the 2004 KOP. It was in the 2002 KOP. It is not its exact replacement, either.

Next is "<R70> Specific items NOT allowed include: Electric motors different from or in addition to those in the Kit."

That motor is different than those in the kit.

Let's next refer to the flow chart. Jump straight to the "Kit part?" which it is not. Follow the chart on down to "Electronics" is the part a motor? yes, it is. move on to the bottom and we see it cant be used.

If there is still *any* doubt, lets refer to the Q&A system.

"Section: 5.2.5 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/12/2004
Q: Can we use the old Atwoods with the geared output shafts? These were the original configuration Atwoods when they were first introduced.

A: R09 clearly states previous years' motors must be the same identical motor as in the 2004 kit; therefore the old Atwood motors from 2002 cannot be used."

There you have it.

Cory

[Gui Cavalcanti]

Ok Mike, since you obviously dont believe that we know what we're talking about, and you apparently have no desire to confirm this on your own, I'll do it for you. (Please note, we arent trying to be rude, we're trying to help you!)

First, let us visit "5.3.1 FIRST Provided Kit of Parts
FIRST provides each team a Kit of Parts. Only the exact parts provided in the Kit (or their exact replacement)
are considered as Kit Parts."

That motor was not in the 2004 KOP. It was in the 2002 KOP. It is not its exact replacement, either.

Next is "<R70> Specific items NOT allowed include: Electric motors different from or in addition to those in the Kit."

That motor is different than those in the kit.

Let's next refer to the flow chart. Jump straight to the "Kit part?" which it is not. Follow the chart on down to "Electronics" is the part a motor? yes, it is. move on to the bottom and we see it cant be used.

If there is still *any* doubt, lets refer to the Q&A system.

"Section: 5.2.5 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/12/2004
Q: Can we use the old Atwoods with the geared output shafts? These were the original configuration Atwoods when they were first introduced.

A: R09 clearly states previous years' motors must be the same identical motor as in the 2004 kit; therefore the old Atwood motors from 2002 cannot be used."

There you have it.

Cory

As final clarification, upon inspection of those motors via pictures there is "Atwood Mobile" written on top line on the side. The new motors in the kit have no such lettering, and only have "CIM" written on the side.

[157#1Driver]

well there is one thing that points to have new CIMs motors, the older motors with geared shafts have red and yellow wires. The CIMs with the key way shafts have red and black, unless they can be swapped, there really is no good view with the other motors. Is there any other closer pics of the motors on the base Mike?

[Cory]

Ok, why are we even discussing this? It is quite obvious that theyre using the Atwood with the geared output shaft and cluster gear. It is quite obviously illegal. We dont need more pictures. We don't need to debate the legality. Multiple people have pointed out that these motors are indeed illegal. As Mike pointed out, they intend to follow the rules, so Im sure they'll rectify it. Lets leave team 61 to deal with their own business people. We dont need to turn this into a 10 page thread like what happened last year with 68.

Cory

[Mike Norton]

Ok this motors are not being used

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/images/2004Pictures/2004chips1.JPG

But these are

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/images/2004Pictures/2004_24arm.JPG

we use the old motors to get the gear box set and then we have a the shaft made on the new motors. you can change the shaft to any motors. just like the drill motors we use to do. So I will take a closer picture of the new motor to show you that this was done. The new chip motors do say FIRST Robotic on them


So let talk more about this rest of the robot. I will have more picuters up soon.


I am trying to show new teams how easy it is to make a simple robot. We are not afraid to show our robot. We just want to show how involved our students are in making this robot.

[Solace]

2003 RAGE 173 bot Was Made out of WOOD?
as far as memory serves, the RAGE bot has always been made out of wood.

and to 814, i remeber you from nationals. I will never forget what we have affectionately termed the "couch-bot".

[BillyGoats]

Yahoo, Robot drive train and landing gear is all wired up and our driver drove it today for a good half and hour with no problems! New pics will be posted sometime tonight.

There should be some good ones of the CIM's for all those people who thought we used the wrong ones of something like that.

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2004.htm

[Christine G.]

New pic's of Team 61's robot are up!!

Check them out at http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2004.htm :cool:

[Josh Fritsch]

Those wheels look sweet, our machine shop has a programmable mill, however its not working so its not much use to us.

[Mike Norton]

Our arm now hit over 14' high. we can hit the bar from far away. just wait until we get the winch pictures up. that is a work of art.

go out and take a look at the web site.


http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2004.htm

[greencactus3]

wow! that is one looooooooong arm.
it looks like you're using wire to change the angle of the arm too..
how many wraps around the drum are you going for that part?
does it have any slip at all?

[BillyGoats]

wow! that is one looooooooong arm.
it looks like you're using wire to change the angle of the arm too..
how many wraps around the drum are you going for that part?
does it have any slip at all?

We are using a push pull system.. It's never failed us! Does it slip? not sure what you mean.. but i don't belive it does.

As for wraps i belive there are like 8-10.

[Mike Norton]

wow! that is one looooooooong arm.
it looks like you're using wire to change the angle of the arm too..
how many wraps around the drum are you going for that part?
does it have any slip at all?


the arm is always in tension. there are two different cables both are about 14' long. this is a 5" pulley. so we bring in about 15" on each turn. we gear down the globe 3:1.

what brings the arm up and down is the van door motor same style a push pull system. The arm stays in place because of the speed controls hold the van door up from back driving. with this arm we can pull a wheelie in both directions when the wheelie wheels are down.


By the way this arm can lift a lot . So to keep the 2x ball in place at the end of a match might be a little problem if you leave it :) .

[Mike Norton]

new pictures are up.

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2004.htm

[greencactus3]

the arm is always in tension. there are two different cables both are about 14' long. this is a 5" pulley. so we bring in about 15" on each turn. we gear down the globe 3:1.

what brings the arm up and down is the van door motor same style a push pull system. The arm stays in place because of the speed controls hold the van door up from back driving. with this arm we can pull a wheelie in both directions when the wheelie wheels are down.


By the way this arm can lift a lot . So to keep the 2x ball in place at the end of a match might be a little problem if you leave it :) .
ahh.. two wires. that explains it. pull a wheelie in both directions?? i don't get it.
and are you saying even if we cap the tall goal you might be able to pull it out? is that legal?

[Mike Norton]

to pull a wheelie mean we lift the front or back up to be able to climb over anything.

Yes knocking the 2x ball out of the goal is legal :D

We can be under the goal and still knock out the 2x out of the platform goal

just look down this barrel http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/images/2004Pictures/2004_211Arm6.JPG

[Mike Norton]

Team 61 works everybody even the girls. how many girls do you know can rip a part metal like this girl.


see web site http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/images/2004Pictures/2004_213welding5.JPG

see web site for new update
http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2004.htm

[Christine G.]

We teach our girls that they can do anything the guys can do and even do it better. :)

[Mike Norton]

new pictures of the gearbox are up.

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/images/2004Pictures/2004_217gear.JPG

the rest are at

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2004.htm

[Mike Norton]

new pictures of us hanging around with the robot.

This robot is hanging from a I beam 14' in the ceilling. http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/images/2004Pictures/2004_18Hanging1.JPG

to see more go to this web site

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/rob..._photos2004.htm

[BillyGoats]

new pictures of us hanging around with the robot.

This robot is hanging from a I beam 14' in the ceilling. http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/images/2004Pictures/2004_18Hanging1.JPG

to see more go to this web site

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/rob..._photos2004.htm

Finally you posted these pictures!! Yeah it was pretty sweet seeing it hang there for the first time.

[Mike Norton]

new picture are up

the robot has taken on a all new look. a lot faster to climb and hang. the drive train can move almost anything.


few days left. All the pictures will be up by friday

if anybody could give feed back on our web site that would be great.

we were trying to make it easy for others to see this year robot and past robots.

[Mike Norton]

we just posted a lot of pitcures go out and look at all the changes from what we started with.

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/rob..._photos2004.htm



It is always very good to have a running robot early so you can change things when you do not like them.

[Mike Norton]

Not bad over 4,000 view this site. I hope it help teams out there

[Mike Norton]

new picture of FL. regional are up at this web site More to come:

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2004UCFRegional.htm

[Mike Norton]

A lot more pictures have been put up on our web site. Go out and look.


http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/Robotics/default.htm

[Christine G.]

Even more pictures went up tonight of the UCF Regional. Check them out at http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2004UCFRegional.htm More will be put up tomorrow.

[Mike Norton]

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2004UCFRegional.htm

More pictures have been put up.

We are going to Atlanta GA Thanks to our sponsors and to Team 60 and Team 386

[MOEmaniac]

Im not sure if someone posted this question yet but:

What was that "other project"?

[Mike Norton]

It is a Wimshurst machine if anybody want to see better pictures of this just e-mail me and I will send then to you. We are about 90% done. we just need to hook up the brushes and Caps

Right now this machine is puting out around 300,000 volts

[Mike Norton]

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robotics/robotics_photos2004.htm


go out and take a look at the other project.


Have anybody ever seen a bigger machine than this one. We have searched everywhere to find one and we can't. So if you know of one that would help