Questions about Textures and Models

[thoughtful]

Hey,
I wana know if we can use royality free textures or models in our animations, we are not planning so much on using models but its always good to use royality free textures instead of making from scratch. So plaease tell me if tis allowed

[matt111]

search before u post there are several threads about this....but in short no, u cant use any third-party stuff (unless it is from FIRST)

[Matt Hallock]

Hah! Love your avatar, Matt.

[thoughtful]

Thnx i have seen other threads, but the thing that was conerning me was the definition of Third Parttextures, can i go into photospoh and make my own?, or am i jsut supposed to sue built in Materials, and if yes can i tweak the materials in material editor.

PS:- Thnx, Matt

[matt111]

my understanding is that u could do to photoshop and make ur own and edit the premade ones in max.

GOGO Mspaint avatar :)

[Matt Hallock]

Making your own textures is fine and using/editing the ones given to you with max is as well.

[Joe Ross]

search before u post there are several threads about this....but in short no, u cant use any third-party stuff (unless it is from FIRST)

Where does it say this in the rules? I found one thread that had one person who said that, but that was just a statement, not an official answer or link to rules.

[Matt Hallock]

I quoted the rules in another thread, read your consent form that you should have, or are going to send in.

Under section 8.7 of the awards documentation, paragraph three (If you exclude bullets), it says:

"The entrant represents and warrants that the material is by the entrant free of any liens or claims of any third party."

[Joe Ross]

I quoted the rules in another thread, read your consent form that you should have, or are going to send in.

Under section 8.7 of the awards documentation, paragraph three (If you exclude bullets), it says:

"The entrant represents and warrants that the material is by the entrant free of any liens or claims of any third party."

Isn't that what a royalty free texture is?

[Matt Hallock]

That's still someone elses thing, they can claim that it wasn't free, they have rights to it, even if they say it's free. Besides, why would you want someone elses things in your animation? It doesn't make it worth it, you learn a lot more if you do everything by yourself (With some professional help if you need it, that's not bad or anything.) I fail to see why anyone would want to put someone elses stuff in their animation.

[PhatalEphekt]

does that apply to sound effects too?

[Matt Hallock]

If it's third party, than yes.

[thoughtful]

THe understaning i have of Royaliuty Free, is tht everyone has permissions to use it, some stuff is even credit-ware, where u have to put credits in your movie to useit, but i want to get this all figured out, at least we can make our own textures :)

[matt111]

hmmm what if the stuff is donated? like if a radio station gives u sound effect tapes or soemthing like that? i would think this is just to avoid copyright isssues or people dowloading major chunks of the animations, but it is a gray area.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Use common sense... that's all I have to say.

Especially on the music thing, that's where you'll be caught if you've done something wrong.

[thoughtful]

For sound FX, Flashkit has lots of em, but check if its Share-ware,Link-Ware or Free-Ware.

Free-ware is no strings attached, link-ware means giving thm credit and share-ware you have to i think get written permission or buy the rights.

[Matt Hallock]

But you are literally just using someone elses stuff. The judges and peer judges don't get to view credits (Atleast it says they won't be part of the judging.) So whatever you take and put in, it's being viewed that you made that.

[thoughtful]

But you are literally just using someone elses stuff. The judges and peer judges don't get to view credits (Atleast it says they won't be part of the judging.) So whatever you take and put in, it's being viewed that you made that.
Thats the reason i started this thread, i want to get it cleared, but how are we supposed to make our own Sound FX, using a MIC? i mean our school doesnt has any high tech radio rooms or any thing, textures and models i can understand cause it is not that hard..

But i think we can use the sound if we get written permission form the owner or publisher.

[Joe Ross]

The judges and peer judges don't get to view credits (Atleast it says they won't be part of the judging.) So whatever you take and put in, it's being viewed that you made that.

That just means that you can have the ugliest credits in the world and they won't count against. you. The judges will still view the credits.

Despite your personal bias against using other people's stuff, it isn't illegal as long as you have written permission.

[Matt Hallock]

So, you're giving the okay for people to just download the "no-strings-attached" models off of 3DCAFE, and then call it quits?

[Ryan Dognaux]

So, you're giving the okay for people to just download the "no-strings-attached" models off of 3DCAFE, and then call it quits?

He wasn't saying that at all, what he was saying that it's okay for teams with consent to use 3rd party things, even if it is against your thinking. Look, I think every animator in FIRST knows you're against 3rd party stuff... I'm not for it either, but that doesn't mean by posting over and over and over that you will change their actions. People are wanting to know what's legal, and what's not, and how things are legal... they aren't looking for criticism.

2 cents thrown.

[Matt Hallock]

And the rules have been given, it says no 3rd party, it doesn't say, "No 3rd party claims, except free things." That is still a third party, and they take claim to it. Even if the model is 'free' you'd still require their consent. Gah, I hate these gray area in rules. Saying that they can use models with credit is too open, because people could still just use all their models with consent, and I don't think that what Autodesk, or anyone really wants.

I do feel bad for those of you who got cut on time or can't devote all the time they want on the animation, but I feel that it takes away from the competition when people use things not their own. I wish the competition was extend another few weeks so this wouldn't even matter.

[Lev]

And the rules have been given, it says no 3rd party, it doesn't say, "No 3rd party claims, except free things." That is still a third party, and they take claim to it. Even if the model is 'free' you'd still require their consent. Gah, I hate these gray area in rules. Saying that they can use models with credit is too open, because people could still just use all their models with consent, and I don't think that what Autodesk, or anyone really wants.

I do feel bad for those of you who got cut on time or can't devote all the time they want on the animation, but I feel that it takes away from the competition when people use things not their own. I wish the competition was extend another few weeks so this wouldn't even matter.

Oh, and if you follow the rules to the letter, you'll see the following: "Using graphic imagery and animation developed with 3ds max (as well as other Autodesk products if you wish), your animation should be an informative and clearly focused 30-second spot that supports your message of what FIRST means to your team"

NOW, tell me you haven't used ANYTHING besides 3dsmax ot Inventor, or Autocad! No, Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, gimp, or anything. Oh, really?

I already said this in an earlier post - in my opinion there are cases in which using other's work is okay - for example the "grunt work" models. There is no challenge in modeling a field or a metal extrusion part, and neither does it give me any valuable experience. Here is an analogy for you - you dont define your models in 3d studio polygon by polygon - you use sub-divs, nurbs, or whatever you choose. Its the same thing - im using small parts that would be easy but time consuming to model to create a bigger scene.

[Matt Hallock]

I've actually been pretty accepting of people using other programs, especially for the modelling work (Use what floats your boat, no reason to learn another program if you're already proficient and enjoy one)

I think there's a line between using a program that suits your needs, and using someone elses things. I've said before, after mulling it over, that the kit of parts that they supply to you is, or atleast should be, okay to use. That is something that has been supplied to you, for you to use. I don't think that there are many cases where using other peoples stuff is okay, I think it's okay to use things that are supplied to you, like the part of kits or what have you.

You are correct that I don't make my work vertex by vertex (Unless I'm mesh-smoothing an automobile, but I really use corner splines I guess for starter.) But that is still mine it is still what I've done and made. You need not defend using the part of kits, what I'm talking about is there has to be a line between things that are supplied, and things that are freeware.

[Lev]

I've actually been pretty accepting of people using other programs, especially for the modelling work (Use what floats your boat, no reason to learn another program if you're already proficient and enjoy one)

I think there's a line between using a program that suits your needs, and using someone elses things. I've said before, after mulling it over, that the kit of parts that they supply to you is, or atleast should be, okay to use. That is something that has been supplied to you, for you to use. I don't think that there are many cases where using other peoples stuff is okay, I think it's okay to use things that are supplied to you, like the part of kits or what have you.

You are correct that I don't make my work vertex by vertex (Unless I'm mesh-smoothing an automobile, but I really use corner splines I guess for starter.) But that is still mine it is still what I've done and made. You need not defend using the part of kits, what I'm talking about is there has to be a line between things that are supplied, and things that are freeware.

Well, i've been arguing for allowing to use FirstCADLibrary and the field model posted in the other thread. Yes, downloading a complex model from 3dcafe is different, and i certainly wouldn't approve of teams doing that - but then, i wouldnt care too much either. I'm yet to see a free model of decent quality posted on 3dcafe.

The reason i've brought up software questions is to point out to you that you seem to be okay with violating the rules on the software, while telling everyone to follow the 3rd party content rule to the letter. I completely agree with you about software - if its free and available to everyone, i dont have a problem with it. But hey, if you are going to be easy on one of the rules, it'd make sense to be consistent and make it so for all fo them.

[thoughtful]

But hey, if you are going to be easy on one of the rules, it'd make sense to be consistent and make it so for all fo them.

Good point, actually autodesk wants to see our performance with 3dsMax, thats why they provide all fo us with free copies for our schools, so we should follow all the rules.

And as for models i agree with you guys, its just ethicly wrong to use someones else model and just animate it , because that doesnt show one's own skills and is unfair to someone who has spent 10+ hours to nail a single high detialed model.

On the other hand we have to see third party Sound FX and music, so make sure you get permissions before hand, because sometimes communications delays might force you to use something different than your original plan.


Now this might be off topic, but i just wana say that the last year winner didnt had 30 sec of animation actually very little animation and mostly video, their whole AVA looked very good and professional, but this shows that you really dont need that much experience in 3D, just creativity and a good vision of FIRST.

[Matt Hallock]

FIRST is really looking for comercials in my opinion, and they are looking for something that portrays them most favourably. Lev, I understand that I'm not really being consistent with the 3rd party programs, I just think that's somewhat of a different matter because programs generally offer the same things just in different forms. Everyone gets 3DSMAX, so if someone decides to use MAYA I think that's there option, they are afforded the opportunity to use MAX.

I've decided I'm not going to use any 3rd party plugins at all, I originally thought of using Brazil, but then decided against it when it came time to render (Hooray, I'll be done rendering everything in 40 hours, 21 minutes and 18 seconds.) That's not even half way through.

[Ryan Dognaux]

I've decided I'm not going to use any 3rd party plugins at all, I originally thought of using Brazil, but then decided against it when it came time to render (Hooray, I'll be done rendering everything in 40 hours, 21 minutes and 18 seconds.) That's not even half way through.

Oh the joys of rendering ;)

If you need sound effects and such, I would suggest using Acid to make music.. and what not.

Here's a good site to get some free loops and effects - www.acidplanet.com

[Matt Hallock]

200,000 polygons will generally do that to a render. A friend of mine is doing sound for our team, he basically makes music and sound effects all day, so I got pretty lucky :)