Calling all 1992 FIRST Veterans!

[Ken Stafford]

We (Team 190) just recently located the dusty but largely intact 1992 WPI/Doherty HS FIRST robot! As runner-up in the very first "National" competition, we felt this robot was worth being displayed and restored. Even better, it ought to have a second chance to compete! According to a 1992 eye witness, it lost to Clinton/NYPRO in the final round by the rarest of circumstances--failing to retain a ball via a system that had been 100% effective in previous matches.

So...how about a rematch of any of the surviving '92 robots? We plan on converting Gompei '92 to RC controls (from the original tethered ops) and propose to rebuild the original Maize Craze field as an added feature of BattleCry@WPI 5 (18-19 Jun). Might even convince a few of the original FIRST staffers to officiate!

If any of the original 28 teams (especially the 5 that have been continuously around: 45, 126, 190, 191, 250) are interested let me know ASAP. Obviously, we would have to think out some modifications to the 'bot (probably hobby-style speed controllers and R/T, batteries, etc), but we're convinced it's quite doable. I think it would be a wonderful photo-op. In any event we will try to get this feature on the webcast.

Reminder, open reg for BattleCry@WPI 5 (http://www.wpi.edu/News/Events/BattleCry/) starts at 0800EDT 30 Apr!

Ken
http://www.wpi.edu/Academics/Academy/first/history/1992/Images/1992.jpg

[Andy Baker]

Hmmm... this sounds interesting.

Our robot is still in tact, and we were also in that final round. I bet that we would be game for a re-match, but I don't think that any TechnoKats are planning on getting to Battlecry this year.

Maybe this is something that we could do at kickoff, or at next year's Championships also?

Andy B.

[Stephen Kowski]

if there is another FIRST conference....this maybe could be a part of the Historical conference about FIRST's history etc....

[Andrew Rudolph]

Where ever it would be, i would love to see it. Its tough to find anything on thoes old games, just to see some of them be played would be awesome.

[ellenchisa]

Oh wow, I don't know anything about any of the games before 2001, and that'd be really cool to see. I think you should do it, if you can get enough people with intact robots.

It might be interesting to re-run an old year every year or something. Such as doing '92 next year like you mentioned, and '93 the year after?

Does anyone know how to find out about all the old games? PM me, please.

Thanks and good luck with that,
Ellen

[Tully]

(especially the 5 that have been continuously around: 45, 126, 190, 191, 250)
FIRST considers team 20 the original team, not 250. ((as of this year))

I have a feeling team 20 will not be able to make it, as we need to get back on our feet in terms of finances and just in general. I don't think we've ever gone to an off-season competition and who knows if we'd be able to find our old bot. ((Probably, though....our advisor keeps everything!))

[JVN]

FIRST considers team 20 the original team, not 250. ((as of this year))

I have a feeling team 20 will not be able to make it, as we need to get back on our feet in terms of finances and just in general. I don't think we've ever gone to an off-season competition and who knows if we'd be able to find our old bot. ((Probably, though....our advisor keeps everything!))
Mr. Kane has it sitting in a box in the storage room at Shen. Last time I pulled it out, it looked MOSTLY intact.

Box Label: "The first FIRST robot".

John

[Koko Ed]

I thought the robots were in possesion of FIRST for display at their headquarters? :confused:

[D.J. Fluck]

I thought the robots were in possesion of FIRST for display at their headquarters? :confused:

The only one I was aware of being on display is the Gael Force (126) robot, the first national champion. Im assuming the x-cats have theirs on display too since you assumed this. (Chairmans award winner as a possible reason?)

[Koko Ed]

The only one I was aware of being on display is the Gael Force (126) robot, the first national champion. Im assuming the x-cats have theirs on display too since you assumed this. (Chairmans award winner as a possible reason?)
Sounds logical.
Maybe if we get FIRST on board they'll let both us and Gael Force have our robots back for this . I think it would be way cool to do it in the middle of the Hall of Fame display since the middle was kinda empty ( I think FIRST should display the clock personally).

[Joshua May]

This sounds cool. I don't know anything about the FIRST competitions before 2002, so it would be really interesting to see.

[Bharat Nain]

OMG, I was reading the game rules etc of the 92' game. I would love to see a re-match. If you ever do play the game, with even one robot running on it, please video tape it for me.

[Joshua May]

OMG, I was reading the game rules etc of the 92' game. I would love to see a re-match. If you ever do play the game, with even one robot running on it, please video tape it for me.
Where can I find a copy of the '92 rules?

[Mike M.]

The only one I was aware of being on display is the Gael Force (126) robot, the first national champion. Im assuming the x-cats have theirs on display too since you assumed this. (Chairmans award winner as a possible reason?)
Actually D.J. we have our 92 robot on display in our high school in one of our FIRST display cases

[Ellery]

For those of you who have not seen the 1992 game played before I do have some video clips of it from the X-CATS video documentary which we donated to FIRST as a new team recruiting tool. The 1992 X-CATS robot is at FIRST Place (FIRST museum in NH). It's the very first robot you'll see as you walk in.

I don't have any video editing tools personally so I'd have to get someone to convert it digital from VHS. It's not exactly a whole match either. But I know we have tons of tapes from each year's competition at our site if people are really interested. Possibly we can show it at the new Finger lakes Regional we are hosting next year in Rochester, NY.

Ellery

[Bharat Nain]

Where can I find a copy of the '92 rules?
I dont remember where exactly I found it, but perhaps this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25763) thread might help you.

[suneel112]

What were the old team numbers then? I think they did a re-numbering in 1997 (I think it's also the same year the game got bigger, and used the 52' x 24' field) I know some old numbers...Wildstang (111) was 81, Chief (47) was 32, and i heard that the Technokats (45) were 6. it seems like the 1992 teams are pretty randomized. (Technokats - 45, X-Cats - 191, Gael Force - 126).

Maybe I'll start a thread about this.

[Greg Needel]

What were the old team numbers then? I think they did a re-numbering in 1997 (I think it's also the same year the game got bigger, and used the 52' x 24' field) I know some old numbers...Wildstang (111) was 81, Chief (47) was 32, and i heard that the Technokats (45) were 6. it seems like the 1992 teams are pretty randomized. (Technokats - 45, X-Cats - 191, Gael Force - 126).

Maybe I'll start a thread about this.



the numbers were re-assigned every year till 97 and at which point they were done alphabeticaly by sponsor ie. team 1 the juggernots were sponsored by 3d systems....and 191 is sponsored by xerox hence the high number

[Rob Colatutto]

From what I have heard, there were no team numbers issed in 1992. I believe the first year for any numbers was 95 or 96.

[Ken Stafford]

What were the old team numbers then? I think they did a re-numbering in 1997 (I think it's also the same year the game got bigger, and used the 52' x 24' field) I know some old numbers...Wildstang (111) was 81, Chief (47) was 32, and i heard that the Technokats (45) were 6. it seems like the 1992 teams are pretty randomized. (Technokats - 45, X-Cats - 191, Gael Force - 126).

Maybe I'll start a thread about this.

My $.02: The numbers stabilized in '98. Apparently at the decision time there were 191 teams arranged alphabetically by sponsor. Xerox was the last team (191), WPI was the penultimate team (190). Sometime after, more teams joined and were put randomly after 191, also some teams dropped and were removed from the 1-191 sequence. By our records, team numbers were not particularly significant in '92 (you find no mention on any of the robots), in fact, the first WPI robot that had a number on it was in '97 (team 153--just ahead on Xerox at 154).

Ken

[Jeff Rodriguez]

So, who's buying all the corn?

I thought it was funny, cause it's true :).

[Jeff Waegelin]

My $.02: The numbers stabilized in '98. Apparently at the decision time there were 191 teams arranged alphabetically by sponsor. Xerox was the last team (191), WPI was the penultimate team (190). Sometime after, more teams joined and were put randomly after 191, also some teams dropped and were removed from the 1-191 sequence. By our records, team numbers were not particularly significant in '92 (you find no mention on any of the robots), in fact, the first WPI robot that had a number on it was in '97 (team 153--just ahead on Xerox at 154).

Ken

191 was not the last team in 1998. I know that because my team, 201, competed in 98. But, we were a late registrant, so we were one of those teams "put randomly after 191." I believe that was done by the order in which the teams paid their deposit and registered.

[Venkatesh]

So, who's buying all the corn?

I have read about all of the FIRST challenges, and by far the corn struck me as the most whimsical and fun. Imagine Zone Zeal with a field of corn or other substitute food. Or Torroid Terror with cotton candy in goals.

[Bharat Nain]

I have read about all of the FIRST challenges, and by far the corn struck me as the most whimsical and fun. Imagine Zone Zeal with a field of corn or other substitute food. Or Torroid Terror with cotton candy in goals.
Where did you read all the game rules etc? I remember reading some of them on the internet, but i never finished reading and now I can't find that page again. Any help?

[Alex Pelan]

Our website has a good history section
http://www.swindsor.k12.ct.us/Highschool/activities/clubs/first/

Since its done with javascript/frames (well, at least I assume, as the Url doesn't change), just click on history, then any year you want....

[Matt Leese]

My $.02: The numbers stabilized in '98. Apparently at the decision time there were 191 teams arranged alphabetically by sponsor. Xerox was the last team (191), WPI was the penultimate team (190). Sometime after, more teams joined and were put randomly after 191, also some teams dropped and were removed from the 1-191 sequence. By our records, team numbers were not particularly significant in '92 (you find no mention on any of the robots), in fact, the first WPI robot that had a number on it was in '97 (team 153--just ahead on Xerox at 154).

Ken
I think the last of alphabetical team numbers issued in 1998 was actually 192 (they were sponsored by Xerox that year which is why they appear after the X-Cats). There also were team numbers assigned up to 210 in 1998. However, there were not 210 teams competing as either numbers were skipped or teams dropped out before the actual competition (as an example, there was never a team 3 in competetion in 1998).

Matt

[Ken Stafford]

Actually D.J. we have our 92 robot on display in our high school in one of our FIRST display cases

Yes indeed! In fact we just heard that Gael Force IS planning on dusting it off and bringing it to BattleCry! So we will at least have the top 2 '92 robots in action again!

Btw, through the insistance and assistance of Kurt Heizmann (DEKA now, WPI faculty-mentor in '92), we will run these robots unmodified. Kurt thinks he will be able to reproduce the original powered tether system.

BattleCry has been filled to the 42 team capacity for a while now (we could still use a few more reserve teams!), but if any of you have access to one of the original robots--bring 'em on down! For those teams that can't make it to "Wustah", check out the BattleCry site (http://www.wpi.edu/News/Events/BattleCry/) in a week or two to see how to receive the streaming video of every match (including the Maize Craze replay!).

Ken

[Devin L.]

Yes indeed! In fact we just heard that Gael Force IS planning on dusting it off and bringing it to BattleCry! So we will at least have the top 2 '92 robots in action again!

i hate to bring u this news, but we will not be running our '92 robot. Our '92 robot will be brought to the comp i believe, but only for display.

[Ken Stafford]

i hate to bring u this news, but we will not be running our '92 robot. Our '92 robot will be brought to the comp i believe, but only for display.

Too bad, one of your mentors had indicated otherwise. They are so simple to operate, it would be a shame not to power it up...(no programming, no speed controllers, no pneumatics, no batteries to deal with,...). Maybe tough to justify the field and tether system with only 1 'bot! Make for a kinda boring streaming video bit... Anybody else want to see the '92 champion robot in action?

Ken

[Devin L.]

well we will be having a team meeting on monday for BTB so me and Mike M. will bring this up and try to get our '92 robot to compete

[Justin]

Well,

Nothing like Ken Stafford to come up with an idea this twisted ;-) Personally I think that from a PR perspective this is a good idea I think it would be cool to do at Nationals to. Maybe this is just because I am partial to "old FIRST" although I only date back to 1996. A lot of students now in FIRST do not even know that there was a compeition in 1992...corn? what does corn have to do with anything? I also have my own selfish reasons that I'd just like to see the 92 game with the corn...for some reason I have this obession about the corn I think we should bring it back...How about filling the current field with corn Ken?? I try each year to get them to do this at River Rage and I've been unsuccessful so far. Sadly I think it will be pretty hard to get an opponent 92 bot but it would be cool.

See you all at BattleCry,

Justin

[Devin L.]

i have some good news...
we will be bringing our '92 robot to battlecry and we will ONLY compete against you (team 190) if u can recreate the teather system. we dont want to alter our '92 robot, we would like to keep it as an original. so, if we can compete on a teather system, then we will most likely be having a 1v1 maize craze competition once again! (but with 2 bots)

[Ken Stafford]

i have some good news...
we will be bringing our '92 robot to battlecry and we will ONLY compete against you (team 190) if u can recreate the teather system. we dont want to alter our '92 robot, we would like to keep it as an original. so, if we can compete on a teather system, then we will most likely be having a 1v1 maize craze competition once again! (but with 2 bots)

Very cool! That is exactly our current plan--tethered sytems, on-off controls, etc. Should be an interesting bit. Currently we are planning this demo to occur after the elimination semi-finals, just prior to the finals. Certainly it will be covered by the streaming video... Any other takers???

Ken

[Devin L.]

do u have any idea on how u are going to recreate the '92 field, and where it will be located at the comp? (is there going to be enough room)

[Ken Stafford]

do u have any idea on how u are going to recreate the '92 field, and where it will be located at the comp? (is there going to be enough room)

This is getting exciting! I have the complete (10 page!) instructions for the game. Fascinating challenge. The actual field was 16 by 16 with the tether point 22 and 1/2 ft above the field! We considered making a 1/2 field but that would radically effect the robot placement strategy (the adjacent corners of the field have different height ball holders). We are now thinking about a 12 by 12 field set between the snack bar and FIRST Frenzy field (parking lot side of Harrington). This would provide plenty of space for routine traffic and allow the field to be used multiple times during the day without interfering with the main field. The cameras would focus on this activity to provide big screen viewing for those not surrounding it.

Gotta a bunch of cool historical facts. The actual other 2 finalists in the last matches were Illinois' Wheeling High School/Motorola, Inc. (now Team 111, Jon Walger, 16, and Andy Bachmann, 15, piloted "Da Cat" with engineering support from Bruce Mueller and Dan Rooney), and Indiana's Kokomo High School/Delco Electronics Corporation (now Team 45, Carol Givens, 18, and Jason Strawhacker, 16, drove "Cornvette" with coaching support from Delco engineers Gene West and Tim Garner) in finals. Your team was driven by Jonathan Payne, 18, and Hugo Mederios, 18, operating "Smilee," with NYPRO coach Eric Yantz. So far we have actually tracked down 3 of the original 4 stage crew from WPI's "Devastator" and hope to have them operating during this rematch.

It would still be way cool to have a 4-robot field...

Ken

[Bharat Nain]

Please tape it. Wish I could be there. This sounds really interesting to see a replay from 92'