The FIRSTwiki

[Max Lobovsky]

What is a wiki? Well to quote from an excellent example of one, WikiPedia (http://www.wikipedia.org/), it is a "collection of interlinked web pages, any of which can be visited and edited by anyone at any time (collaborative software (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborative_software)). The concept and software was invented by Ward Cunningham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Cunningham)."

How will this benefit FIRST? If it catches on with members of the community, we could, in a matter of a month or two, have a resource with information on everything involed in FIRST:

pages for each team
pages for key people (and for anyone who cares to make one, like me (http://www.afiber.com/FIRSTwiki/index.php?title=User:Max))
pages for all the important elements of the robot (FRC, motors, and other kit of parts stuff)
FIRST history stuff
etc. etc. etc.....
I know there is already a thread on this topic here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=28697), but i am starting this topic to discuss and inform people about this specific wiki that I have set up for FIRST use, the FIRSTwiki (http://www.afiber.com/FIRSTwiki) (thanks SilverStar :o ). I am sure that this could turn out to be an excellent thing, but it needs people to use it to become anything. Even if you aren't interested, just take a look at WikiPedia (http://www.wikipedia.org/) or try editing in the FIRSTwiki sandbox (http://www.afiber.com/FIRSTwiki/index.php?title=FIRSTwiki:Sandbox). If you'd like to start a page, just type in http://www.afiber.com/FIRSTwiki/index.php?title=xxxx and replace xxxx with the title of your proposed page. Feel free to register here (http://www.afiber.com/FIRSTwiki/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&returnto=Special:Userlogin) so that all your changes are credited to you. If you have any questions, post them here or, even better, the FIRSTwiki User Questions page (http://www.afiber.com/FIRSTwiki/index.php?title=FIRSTwiki:User_Questions). Thanks.

[phrontist]

I remember back in the day when I wanted something cool to happen, I'd have to write code and administer it. Thank god I'm out of that rat race. Now I can just say something, and BAM! it implements itself. ;)

Thanks Max! :D

I know my team will be contributing quite a bit in the future.

PS: We have some talented graphics people, and we noticed you're using the default logo...

[Max Lobovsky]

Well i haven't really done that much.... yet. Just dled the code and setup a DB. There will be a lot more in the future.

As for the logo, thanks. I didn't want to just throw something stupid together, and I have to get it approved if it has the FIRST logo in it or something like that... I was planning on asking people to help after the place got going a bit, but it looks like i have it even easier than you, i don't even have to ask :)

[Guest]

Current status: Some progress has been made. There are 4 registered users.

We need teams to put entries about themselves.

http://www.afiber.com/FIRSTwiki

[Joshua May]

Alright, I just registered and added my team's page.

[Max Lobovsky]

Current Status: 20 content pages, numerous neccesary support pages, 10 registered users (including 4 not from 1257 :) )

[Astronouth7303]

754 Pages (44 info)
3058 views, 688 edits
0.91 edits/page
4.44 views/page

14 users, 2 admins, 5 teams

AND WE NEED A LOGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.afiber.com/FIRSTwiki/

[Max Lobovsky]

After logging 250+ edits in the last two days, i have the sudden urge to hit the edit button on every web page i go to...

[phrontist]

Hey! Added a stub for my team. Also, I figured I'd give it a shorter url:

http://wiki.1418.org

I'd be willing to register a domain name, but I need to settle some debts before I do. Can you host this? I have a linux box up in my room, and 100mb on a nice host, but maybe we should solicit a sponsor to host it...

[CyberWolf_22]

I added my team page. This is a really cool idea I hope it takes off with all the teams.

[Astronouth7303]

I big step (I think) towards making this happen is to MAKE A LOGO! I'd do it, But I don't know what to do!

I also encourage people to add stubs on various topics to get a framework down. A lot of the stuff I've done is just a link to the appropriate web site.

[Brandon Martus]

I don't see any problems adding it to our server, at something like:

http://wiki.chiefdelphi.com/

Just thought I'd put the offer out there..

[Max Lobovsky]

Well it looks like its really getting going, its not just SilverStar and I typing away for hours on end anymore. 58 pages, 17 users, 926 edits.

As for the offers for hosting, thanks a lot. Once again, im happy to see how quick the FIRST community is to try to help out. I would be very interested, but I have to make several requests (yes, im greedy).

Linux
I need to be able to install various modules and binaries to implement features like math rendering and more (in the future).
ftp acccess to wherever its being hosted from
This doesn't really affect whoever hosts it, but i think it will need a domain of its own. Helps keep the wiki image of being free and open.

[Brandon Martus]

We can offer all that. No shell access, but ftp and the ability to ask me to install whatever software & module(s) you need.

[Max Lobovsky]

Great! Thanks a lot Brandon. I don't see any reason to wait, so as soon as you are ready or if you have some questions, email me at maxlobovsky a+ comcast d0+ net

[phrontist]

As I've mentioned elsewhere, one of our mentor's has made it an assingment in his computer graphics class to make a logo! :D

We've got some talented people, I'm sure they'll produce something!

[phrontist]

Okay, 1418's sponsor will pay for the domain.

http://firstwiki.org
http://firstwiki.net
http://firstwiki.com

are all available. Whaddaya think Max?

[Max Lobovsky]

I dunno, post your favorite at http://www.afiber.com/FIRSTwiki/index.php?title=FIRSTwiki:Community_decisions.

[Astronouth7303]

BEING MOVED RIGHT NOW.

please try to keep traffic down. Thank you

11:19 PM EST

[Guest]

Yeah!!! The new URL (http://wiki.chiefdelphi.com/) works!

Nice job Max!

---------------

Well, it WAS working! What happened?

[Max Lobovsky]

OK, done, for real this time.

[Guest]

Except for images, and uploading.

None of the images were transferred.

[Max Lobovsky]

You know i was only kidding about it being done...

uploading images as we speak.
...

DONE

[Astronouth7303]

We have right now 23 people and pages for 8 of them. (And I just made Dave's! :yikes: )

We have 15 teams and pages for 15 of them.

I KNOW THERE'S MORE THAN THAT!

I encourage you to sign up and help us out. The sign up is optional but encouraged.

[CyberWolf_22]

Where did FIRSTwiki go when I go to the new domain it says the page can't be displayed did the url move a second time is the site just down.

[Max Lobovsky]

see later post.

[Guest]

There appears to be some sorta DNS error going on, we are awaiting Brandon's return. But if you really want access, like i do, add the following entries to your hosts file

216.7.168.120 wiki.chiefdelphi.com
216.7.168.120 www.wiki.chiefdelphi.com (http://www.wiki.chiefdelphi.com/)

BTW, update 107 pages, 23 registered users, 1679 edits, and a whole new section that will be awesome, How-to's.
Even the direct IP addresses just give cPanel errors.

[Max Lobovsky]

Even the direct IP addresses just give cPanel errors.
i know, but just try that, it works. I think your browser passes the domain its looking for to the IP address and the server at that IP gives it the right stuff.

[Goobergunch]

There appears to be some sorta DNS error going on, we are awaiting Brandon's return. But if you really want access, like i do, add the following entries to your hosts file

216.7.168.120 wiki.chiefdelphi.com
216.7.168.120 www.wiki.chiefdelphi.com

How do I do that? I can't seem to find a hosts file in my system.

(I'm currently running Mozilla 1.6.)

[Max Lobovsky]

The URL is http://FIRSTwiki.org (http://FIRSTwiki.org)

[JVN]

...and then I finally went to check it out... and I was listed as an entry.

I'm uhh... honored... I think.

[Max Lobovsky]

hahah, so you were the one who just made those edits to [[JVN]]?

[Astronouth7303]

That's ok. has Dave Lavery been there, yet?

Nah. we'd know if he has. :D

[mtrawls]

The URL is http://FIRSTwiki.org

Perhaps the link on the frontpage of CD should then be changed (since it doesn't work now)? *Cough,* Brandon, *cough* :)

[Andy Baker]

This WIKI is very impressive. We all need to begin using it. Be sure to notify Woodie about it, as it reminds me of a service that he directed a MIT student to create a few years ago, called "sharingFIRST".

Andy B.

[Max Lobovsky]

This WIKI is very impressive. We all need to begin using it. Be sure to notify Woodie about it, as it reminds me of a service that he directed a MIT student to create a few years ago, called "sharingFIRST".

Andy B.
How exactly do we contact Woodie? Just send him an email at flowers@mit.edu (flowers@mit.edu)?

Seems to be that sharingFIRST is down (and i suspect has been offline for a while) so could you tell us young-ons more about it? I'm sure there is a lot we can learn from it.

[Joe Matt]

MASSIVE 384 update. If you ever wanted to know something about Sparky, it's there. ;)

[Andy Baker]

How exactly do we contact Woodie? Just send him an email at flowers@mit.edu (flowers@mit.edu)?

Seems to be that sharingFIRST is down (and i suspect has been offline for a while) so could you tell us young-ons more about it? I'm sure there is a lot we can learn from it.

Yes, that is the best way to get in touch with Woodie. If you refer to sharingFIRST early in your note, it will get his attention quickly.

SharingFIRST was very much like what you are doing with the FIRST Wiki. Any person could submit white papers, descriptions or help on a variety of subjects. The person's name who ran it was Owen _____ (forgot the last name). On the site, you could look under people for their contributions or you could look by topic.

SharingFIRST was a great thing, but it fell apart after Owen graduated from MIT. He (or Woodie) maintained it for maybe 2-3 years, but they had a difficult time finding someone to take it over after Owen moved on.

So... my advice would be to set up a structure that keeps this FIRST Wiki active for many years. If you have a leadership committee, rotate members every year or two so that many people have a hand in what is going on.

Good luck,
Andy B.

[Alex Pelan]

I posted some stuff about 177, and I have to go now, otherwise I would post more stuff about UTC regional, etc. I will post more later, however.

[Brandon Martus]

I think the FIRSTwiki has a great potential to become a huge, detailed FIRST history book / encyclopedia. I hope everybody gets a chance to take a few minutes, look around and become addicted. :)

[Joe Matt]

Question, is someone going to do a past game page?

[mtrawls]

Question, is someone going to do a past game page?

You can answer that question pretty easily :p.

[phrontist]

You can answer that question pretty easily :p.

Yes! This was something I had in mind origionally. Thanks for volunteering and I expect a full report on my desk by monday :D

[Billfred]

Actually, I'd think it'd be better to have a past years section--you know, who won the regionals, what was the game, who got Chairman's, et cetera. Keeps everything in one place (and safe from being overwritten by the current stuff).

[Joe Matt]

*sigh* there goes my study hall!* ;)

nahhh, j/k, I'll be happy to do it. Just need to get a pass to the library and I'm ready to go! :D

Just one thing, do you have a template you want to follow for it, or should I create one?

[Astronouth7303]

Yes, there is one. All help can be found Here (http://www.firstwiki.org/index.php/FIRSTwiki:Help).
The templates are Here (http://www.firstwiki.org/index.php/FIRSTwiki:Page_formats).

[Ryan M.]

Team 1317's page is starting to be built. I should "finish" it by the end of the week. :)

[Joe Matt]

Ok guys, I need your help. I'm looking for information pertaining to the 2000-1992 game designs. Official FIRST material, game designs, field pictures, facts, trivia, etc would be great. Heck, even video would be great! Just send the info to josephmatt@gmail.com and I'll get it up on the site, and then if there is any changes, then you can edit it if you want.

[Max Lobovsky]

Thanks to PiotrM2, we now have (as of about two hours from now) about 900 new pages. One for each team containing location, sponsors, robot name, and start year that he got from an xml file on www.usfirst.org (http://www.usfirst.org). So this means two things, if you don't have a team page yet, its easier than ever to work on one, you just have to type plain old text. And 2, the page counter will be mostly meaningless for the next 2 or 3 weeks untill we really break 1000...

[Ryan M.]

Ok, so what exactly do the "talk" pages do? Is it obvious and I'm just too asleep? :)

[Astronouth7303]

It's where you can discuss things. The Village Pump is for discussion not associated w/ a particular page.

[mtrawls]

Let me add a bit more. The idea is to create an enclyopedia for all to view ... but for all to be able to edit (so as to improve) at the same time. This presents the problem -- if two or more people are editing a page and have different views about where it should go, to come to a consensus, they need a place to talk about it. The talk pages are simply meta-data about the page, "unprofessional" stuff that isn't for the general public, only those interested in editing the page. It is, in essence, a "behind the scenes" page. See wikipedia.org to learn more about a wiki (they have some good stuff up there, if you take the time to figure out where to find it).

[Ryan M.]

Thanks. I had been guessing on something like that, but I didn't want to be completely stupid. :)

[KenWittlief]

This is an interesting idea, there is something I dont quite grasp

anyone can read these pages and anyone can edit them?

ever run into someone on the internet who is malicious or abusive? If I put in a page that takes me several hours to create, whats stopping someone else from esentaiilly deleting everything I wrote and replaceing it with nonsense

or worse?

[Brandon Martus]

I believe there is a history kept .. and you can probably ban someone.
If they can't .. I can stop the IP from hitting the server altogether.

[Guest]

This is an interesting idea, there is something I dont quite grasp

anyone can read these pages and anyone can edit them?

ever run into someone on the internet who is malicious or abusive? If I put in a page that takes me several hours to create, whats stopping someone else from esentaiilly deleting everything I wrote and replaceing it with nonsense

or worse?
I had the exact same worry. Not any more! Anyone can "rollback" edits and convert back to the full text of any previous version of an article. And there are blocking features.

[Astronouth7303]

This is standard for Wikis. See the skeptics link on the main page.

[Guest]

Select a motto!

Go to:http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28900 and vote.

[KenWittlief]

ok so then if the page can be rolled back, what if two people keep toggeling it back and forth? people with different opinions.

you post a bunch of stuff, and I come along a month later and correct your mistakes, then you put it back the way it was before I corrected it?

democracy isnt a good thing in all aspects of life - sometimes you need a supreme commander

or editor :^)

[phrontist]

ok so then if the page can be rolled back, what if two people keep toggeling it back and forth? people with different opinions.

you post a bunch of stuff, and I come along a month later and correct your mistakes, then you put it back the way it was before I corrected it?

democracy isnt a good thing in all aspects of life - sometimes you need a supreme commander

or editor :^)

It works in practice. An admin can always aribtrate serious conflict by locking a node or blocking users/ips. I doubt it will come to that.

[mtrawls]

ok so then if the page can be rolled back, what if two people keep toggeling it back and forth? people with different opinions.

Wikipedia has been around for a while, and faced and is working to settle all these issues. A page can be frozen, not allowing any more editing to go on whlie people calm down a bit. There are other recourses. You might look at Edit Wars (http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edit_war) for mor information. But there are "supreme commander(s)" -- referred to as sysops -- who have more control than just some random internet user. Probelms can arise -- but the idea is that you have more good people than bad looking at the site, and the good will fix the problem shortly (or so you hope).

[Max Lobovsky]

ok so then if the page can be rolled back, what if two people keep toggeling it back and forth? people with different opinions.

you post a bunch of stuff, and I come along a month later and correct your mistakes, then you put it back the way it was before I corrected it?

democracy isnt a good thing in all aspects of life - sometimes you need a supreme commander

or editor :^)
On wikipedia, such conflicts are known as "edit wars" and they do happen occasionally when articles are politically charged. Of course, this type of problem is unlikely on FIRSTwiki, and, as phrontist said, an admin can arbitrate any such conflicts. Additionally, every page has an accompnaying "talk" or discussion page where any arguments can take place and people can post comments or information helpful to others editing the same page.

Ken, I know there are millions of other questions and problems an engineer such as yourself could think of, but the best way to answer them is to just take a look for yourself, or better yet, try contributing.

[Ryan M.]

You could do your team page, Ken. :)